Colts Trade for Wentz (details in first post)

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

maybe it gets the Philly media off Howie's back....for 3-4 hours

actually, its the opposite. i went to several of the forums and eagles media reporters, they're slamming him for getting so little.

[Introspect]

6 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

This is a brilliant deal by Ballard.  One of the leagues best GM's.

I have to believe the new Philly coach did a solid for the team that helped him get a head coaching position. Nick had a great deal to do with this. JMHO

[jvan1973]

6 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

I'm frankly less worried about that than I am seeing Wentz play in the first 12 or so games....and then getting injured for the rest of the season, i.e., he meets the "75% threshold" but the Colts have to play the rest of the season w/ Eason or someone else, miss the playoffs, and watch the Eagles get their 1st rounder in 2022.

 

Paranoid view, I'll admit, but forgive me if I'm a bit paranoid about Colts' quarterbacks these days

If he only plays 12 games it's less than 75 percent,   but I get your point

[James Harden]

Great deal by our GM Chris Ballard. He's the best in the business. 

 

That conditional second round pick tells that the Colts are putting a lot of faith into Wentz. This is going to be a new start for him. I hope he comes in great confidence and ready to learn. Lets Goooo Colts! 

[jvan1973]

Just now, Introspect said:

I have to believe the new Philly coach did a solid for the team that helped him get a head coaching position. Nick had a great deal to do with this. JMHO

Highly doubt he was even involved

[poilucelt]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

actually, its the opposite. i went to several of the forums and eagles media reporters, they're slamming him for getting so little.

maybe that will change as soon as Embiid misses another game for the Sixers

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

If he only plays 12 games it's less than 75 percent,   but I get your point

it's not the # of games that counts, as I understand it, it's the # offensive snaps

[krunk]

 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, poilucelt said:

maybe that will change as soon as Embiid misses another game for the Sixers

it's not the # of games that counts, as I understand it, it's the # offensive snaps

I haven't seen a definitive.    But 12 full games is a little over 70%

[krunk]

Its going to be a harder offense to defend with a tough running game and a QB that can also pose a threat as a runner.

[WoolMagnet]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If he only plays 12 games it's less than 75 percent,   but I get your point

Is that “fuzzy math”?

[Pelt]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Tannehills best in Miami wasn't as good as Wentz in Philly.   Also , Tannehill didn't play in Philly.  Philly media and fans are ruthless.   Dolphins fans and media are softer than us.

 

 Im not a Talent evaluator.    If Frank thinks he can get back to 2017 form and Ballard agrees,  I'm all in.   No coach currently employed in the NFL know Wentz better than Frank

I'm hopeful for your second point.

 

But let's not compare ANY recent Miami team that Tannnehill was on to the Philly team that was talented enough to get to the Super Bowl. C'mon.

[krunk]

Athletically speaking hes as close to Luck as weve had. Just got to clean his mechanics up some and tighten up the decisions.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, Pelt said:

I'm hopeful for your second point.

 

But let's not compare ANY recent Miami team that Tannnehill was on to the Philly team that was talented enough to get to the Super Bowl. C'mon.

Why?  

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

Which is why you always take those reports with a grain of salt.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Is that “fuzzy math”?

No,    12 games ÷ 17 games = 70.5 percent 

[BluesGirl]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

Athletically speaking hes as close to Luck as weve had.

I agree and I see the Colts offense looking like it did in 2019.   But with more RPO.   

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Athletically speaking hes as close to Luck as weve had.

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Fair enough.

 

I can't speak to his mindset, but I know physically, his footwork and decision making were problematic in 2020, downright bad at times. 

 

I look at JB's footwork in 2017, and compare it with his footwork in 2019. Leaps and bounds better. Reportedly, Marcus Brady was instrumental in JB's improved footwork. Now, he's the OC. New QB coach is Scott Milanovich, who has helped awful passers like Bortles and Minshew look like serviceable NFL QBs, including an AFCCG season from Bortles in 2017. He coached Marcus Brady at QB in the CFL. He coached Anthony Calvillo in the CFL, who was a pretty dynamic passer by CFL standards. I don't know what to say about Press Taylor as a coach, reports are mixed, but he was with Wentz during his high times in Philly. And of course, Reich, who worked closely with Wentz as he improved his footwork in his first two seasons.

 

A lot of these guys worked with Luck in 2018, when he changed his style to be a decisive passer, and had the most efficient season of his career.

 

So I feel confident that the Colts have a good enough staff to help Wentz work on his physical issues, his command of the offense, and his decision making on the field.

 

It's unknown, but it's a pessimistic approach to assume that Wentz will be bad in 2021 because he was bad in 2020. Not saying that's your approach, but it seems like everything negative about Wentz is based pretty heavily on 2020.

All why I answered how I did to your question as to if I thought the Colts could get him back

[Pelt]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

Why?  

Because Philly had a Super Bowl caliber team  in 2017 and Miami hasn't been able to brag about that since Marino.

[Chucklez]

31 minutes ago, Pelt said:

I'd say he was aquired by Tennessee because the Titans were already losing faith in Mariota and saw the potential in a QB that was on a team that was being run pathetically.

 

17 minutes ago, Pelt said:

Which proved wonderful for the Titans. I'm hoping we are just as fortunate. But right now I'm dubious at best about this transaction.

Wentz is a far bigger reward vs relative risk than Tannehill was for the Titans. 

People forget that Tannehill was bad.... like really bad, with the Dolphins. There were questions about whether he would ever start at the QB position again. He was widely considered broken and no one gave him a shot. Mariota was definitely on his last few threads of goodwill in Tennessee, but they still thought he might turn the corner. Tannehill was their worst case insurance policy, and so very fortunately for them he blossomed.

Wentz has had some bad years, its fair to say. But the Eagles have been horribly, terribly and pathetically run over the last 3 years, as well as hit by the injury bug more badly than most (yes, even worse than the Colts).... especially on offense. And the people who werent hurt on offense for the Eagles over the last few years... have been dropping balls left right and center.

At this point, I am faaaaar more optimistic about Wentz's chances of turning it around and coming good, at least good enough for us to compete with the higher ranked teams in the AFC, than i am pessimistic about him being eternally broken. And the "price" we payed for his potential pay off..... will seem like we stripped the Eagles naked and ran them through the streets if he does pan out.

If he doesnt pan out, then yeah we gave up a 2nd and a 3rd for him.... not the end of the world considering the potential upside.

Basically, Ballard done good today.... even if it doesnt pan out. He took the shot we needed to take and it didnt really cost us all that much in stakes either.

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Pelt said:

Because Philly had a Super Bowl caliber team  in 2017 and Miami hasn't been able to brag about that since Marino.

Couldn’t really say that since Marino’s early days

[OffensivelyPC]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No,    12 games ÷ 17 games = 70.5 percent 

We have 17 game seasons?

[Colt Overseas]

Anybody watch Wentz versus the Ravens last season. I thought he played with great game despite litterly everyone from the oline, to the WRs dropping passes to his coaches playcalling. He showed great heart. I hope we can reignite his career. He certainly wont be as bad as he was last season, that for certain. 

 

 

 

[Chucklez]

2 minutes ago, Pelt said:

Because Philly had a Super Bowl caliber team  in 2017 and Miami hasn't been able to brag about that since Marino.

We have a Super Bowl caliber team right now.... This point is moot as an argument against bringing Wentz in.

If he can do it there, why cant he do it here?

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Tannehills best in Miami wasn't as good as Wentz in Philly.   Also , Tannehill didn't play in Philly.  Philly media and fans are ruthless.   Dolphins fans and media are softer than us.

 

 Im not a Talent evaluator.    If Frank thinks he can get back to 2017 form and Ballard agrees,  I'm all in.   No coach currently employed in the NFL know Wentz better than Frank

 

This is true. The HC that knew him best is unemployed (for now).

 

[PrincetonTiger]

Just now, Chucklez said:

We have a Super Bowl caliber team right now.... This point is moot as an argument against bringing Wentz in.

If he can do it there, why cant he do it here?

1 minute ago, Colt Overseas said:

Anybody watch Wentz versus the Ravens last season. I thought he played with great game despite litterly everyone from the oline, to the WRs dropping passes to his coaches playcalling. He showed great heart. I hope we can reignite his career. He certainly wont be as bad as he was last season, that for certain. 

 

 

 

Great info

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

6 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

75% of snaps isnt much imo, that looks like an injury clause to me

 

Even if he isnt that great, there wont be a QB on the roster good enough to replace him

they may resign jb and let them battle it out

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, DEFENSE said:

they may resign jb and let them battle it out

There is a big possibility that the brain trust bring in a vet to compete(push) Eason at #2

[John Waylon]

5 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

We have 17 game seasons?

We’re going to. 

[shasta519]

20 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

maybe it gets the Philly media off Howie's back....for 3-4 hours

It should. The media did their part in tanking Wentz value as far as they could...Roseman should actually look pretty good here. Wentz was a sunk cost...a choice he made two years ago that had blown up in his face. And now he can move on.

 

The ONLY way this looks remotely bad for Roseman is if Wentz turns into a legit top 10 QB and the Colts make a serious playoff run.

[richard pallo]

36 minutes ago, poilucelt said:

wonder if the Bears will tag him first

I believe he played on the tag this year.  Gets even pricier on the 2nd tag.

[Pelt]

6 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

We have a Super Bowl caliber team right now.... This point is moot as an argument against bringing Wentz in.

If he can do it there, why cant he do it here?

Do we?

 

I don't think we're Super Bowl caliber.

[GoColts8818]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

No,    12 games ÷ 17 games = 70.5 percent 

Well it’s based on snaps so 12 games might not equal that exact number of snaps.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

We’re going to. 

I remember it being discussed, but I totally forgot anything about it actually happening. 

[CF4L]

I like this move: low risk high reward. Plus Frank knows this guy I doubt he would go through all this trouble if he didn't think Wentz was salvageable. I mean he managed to make Rivers a playoff QB when I wouldn't have thought this a year ago.

[PrincetonTiger]

 

  The breaking of the Carson Wentz Trade is now a part of you know who’s twitter description 

1 minute ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I remember it being discussed, but I totally forgot anything about it actually happening. 

I think it has passed the discussion phase

[WoolMagnet]

55 minutes ago, Pelt said:

Don't recall Tannehill ever being referred to as "broken".

U watch much football?

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

We have a Super Bowl caliber team right now.... This point is moot as an argument against bringing Wentz in.

If he can do it there, why cant he do it here?

 

Except he didn't do it there. He was on IR. He had one great season 4 years ago...and hasn't come close to repeating it. The truth is likely somewhere between last season and that season. We will just have to see where.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

Except he didn't do it there. He was on IR. He had one great season 4 years ago...and hasn't come close to repeating it. The truth is likely somewhere between last season and that season. We will just have to see where.

The people that helped him have a great season left soon after