Is it time to move on from Hilton?

[jskinnz]

18 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s clear Bangogu was a major reach. It happens some times.

 

No and some more No.

 

A reach would be if the Colts had a 4th round grade on Banogu but drafted him in the 2nd anyway.  Do you think they had a lower grade on the guy than where they took him?  

 

19 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

I say we do the Bill Belichick method -- trade Hilton while he has value on the backend of his career.

 

Tell me what do you think they'd get for him right now?  

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Hmmm...  go somewhat phonetically?

 

Toe-May-Toe   -   Ta-Mah-Toe. 

WE call them 'maters where I grew up. 

[NorthernColt]

16 hours ago, HectorRoberts said:

I think a lot of you people base you opinions on the stat sheet instead of his impact on the actual game. If you actually watched the game you see he occupied their #1 dB and allowed other people to be open all game.

I'm a TY fan but this point makes no sense as a defense of TY. Of course he still takes the other teams #1 CB, hes still a threat, but he's living off of his reputation this year. Also, taking a teams #1 CB isn't good enough, if you're supposed to be a #1 WR you gotta beat them at least a handful of times too, not be shut out for multiple weeks.

 

You know how dumb a DC would look if he lined up his #3 CB on Hilton and his #1 CB on a Pascal? lool

[Blueblood23]

20 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t know about that.  He had two good catches today including a TD called back because of flags and had another one that could have been called a catch not given to him on review.  He’s never been able to find the chemistry he had with Luck but I think at least a little bit of that is Luck making him and others better. 

Pretty hard to get chemistry when he misses so many practices.

[ColtsBlueFL]

8 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

WE call them 'maters where I grew up. 

He does too -

 

 

 

[JackOLantin]

Hilton is far more savvy than he gets credit for.

 

the biggest difference fri. Hilton I saw in this game was he just didn’t seem to want it.

 

even when he didn’t get the flags he was just kind of indifferent!

 

very odd, doesn’t look like a physical decline to me definitely more mental.

 

any one else notice this?

[indykmj]

Unless he'll sign a very favorable (home team discount and/or short term) deal, yes, it's time to let him

move on.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, indykmj said:

Unless he'll sign a very favorable (home team discount and/or short term) deal, yes, it's time to let him

move on.

 

It might be fine to bring him back as a #2 wide out if he agrees to it, assuming we sign an alpha wide out in the off season like Allen Robinson and move TY to the slot with Pittman outside, much like Reggie Wayne towards the end of his career. However, there are not going to be many WRs available easily in free agency, so if we don't get a good #1, I'd say double dip into a strong WR draft class and quickly develop them. Then hope the veteran presence of a Rivers (if he does well enough and comes back for 1 more year) provides some continuity for the pass catchers. 

[B~Town]

Hilton has been out played by guys off the street . I am a big fan but Hilton is either injured still or done . He should not be a colt after this season . 

[Freenyfan102]

He might have lost a step and on top of that he not a big tall physical reciver and rivers like throwing it to those type of guys or it could be the route that reich been calling for TY

[CR91]

I'd trade Hilton and a second to the saints for Michael Thomas. He's on the trade block apparently.

[danlhart87]

43 minutes ago, CR91 said:

I'd trade Hilton and a second to the saints for Michael Thomas. He's on the trade block apparently.

I created a thread about that actually in Draft Section. Saints would want a 1st rounder. 

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I created a thread about that actually in Draft Section. Saints would want a 1st rounder. 

 

I can't see Ballard using a first on a WR

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

I can't see Ballard using a first on a WR

Me either but if he does get traded (doubt it) some team will 

[coming on strong]

The only way to see if Hilton has really fallen off is to look at his separation still.  If he is still getting good separation then he is fine .  People have bad years ,rivers likes to spread the ball around .

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

The only way to see if Hilton has really fallen off is to look at his separation still.  If he is still getting good separation then he is fine .  People have bad years ,rivers likes to spread the ball around .

 

TY has never gotten great separation "stats". He's been mostly under the league average which is about 2.8. 

 

He does run good routes, and makes nice cuts, so that lessens the need for actual measured separation to an extent. 

 

I was going to do a thread on WR/TE separation tonight or tomorrow if I have time and will include his numbers from past years, and perhaps game by game for this year.

[Blueblood23]

He is hurt again. I’d be surprised if he is signed after this year. Father Time seems to have caught up with him. 

[DougDew]

No decisions should be made about TY until the end of the season.

 

Need to see what Campbell and Pittman can do before we talk about what level of draft capital is needed for a WR.

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

He is hurt again. I’d be surprised if he is signed after this year. Father Time seems to have caught up with him. 

I fully expect the Colts to move on from him this off-season.  The scary part is no one else has established themselves as the future number one WR so the Colts might have to make some kind of move this off-season there.

[CanuckColt]

Yeah, TY is fading fast...barely starting material any more.

He is a step slower, which kills your game when it is based on speed.

[Moosejawcolt]

Oh yeah. Hes done. Injuries piling up and lack of performance. A classic sign of an aging player

[bestQBever]

I think we ride him out the rest of the year and let him walk

[jchandler7]

He gone!

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

No decisions should be made about TY until the end of the season.

 

Need to see what Campbell and Pittman can do before we talk about what level of draft capital is needed for a WR.

No, he’s here for the remainder of this year, whether that’s on active roster or IR remains to be seen but TY has fully gone ghost. I was thinking this before his latest injury, now it’s all but certain.

 

 

[EastStreet]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

No, he’s here for the remainder of this year, whether that’s on active roster or IR remains to be seen but TY has fully gone ghost. I was thinking this before his latest injury, now it’s all but certain.

Not sure he's gone ghost or is really that much different. IMO, it's...

 

1. TY and Luck had chemistry that's just not there with Rivers.

2. TY has never had huge separation, but he runs great routes, and has good "last cut separation". It's simply easier for Rivers to hit others instead of relying on, or building chemistry.

3. In the Luck to TY early years, we ran more deep routes in the style of Air Coryell. We just don't do that now. TY is running a lot of routes now that just don't lend to separation or streaking.

4. TY still draws CB1 attention, and at times a lot of help and/or doubles. Again, it's just easier to go to others.

 

Rivers is simply good at spreading the ball around. It's seemed the past two games that Rivers has gotten away from Reich's "this offense still goes through TY" mantra. And IMO, it's a good thing. 

[Scott Pennock]

At the end of the season, yes. Draft a true number one or prototypical one to add to the mix and go from there!

 

[MCurtis32]

Last year hilton had Brissett at QB. not good. this year he is being held and double teamed all day long.

As long as teams feel they have to hold him, he still has great speed and great rout running. 

as long as the young up and coming wr's cant stay on the field, there is no threat for his job. He will be fine.

[Valpo2004]

18 hours ago, DougDew said:

No decisions should be made about TY until the end of the season.

 

Need to see what Campbell and Pittman can do before we talk about what level of draft capital is needed for a WR.

 

I don't think we need to trade for a WR.  That is panic behavior.  

 

Campbell needs to get healthy and Pittman needs to get a full year of the NFL under his belt.

 

People on here have expected way too much of these receivers in their rookie years.  You really can't see what a receiver is going to be like until his 2nd year at least.  Campbell got hurt early in his first year and Pittman has missed a few games but hasn't drawn a lot of targets.  However of the targets Pittman has drawn he has done everything you could expect of him.  

 

Honestly my view is we go into next year with Campbell and Pittman as our top 2 receivers, and for the 3rd receiver we could bring back TY on the cheap or sign an FA.   

 

Our current receiving corps is a lot better than advertised.   

[DougDew]

25 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't think we need to trade for a WR.  That is panic behavior.  

 

Campbell needs to get healthy and Pittman needs to get a full year of the NFL under his belt.

 

People on here have expected way too much of these receivers in their rookie years.  You really can't see what a receiver is going to be like until his 2nd year at least.  Campbell got hurt early in his first year and Pittman has missed a few games but hasn't drawn a lot of targets.  However of the targets Pittman has drawn he has done everything you could expect of him.  

 

Honestly my view is we go into next year with Campbell and Pittman as our top 2 receivers, and for the 3rd receiver we could bring back TY on the cheap or sign an FA.   

 

Our current receiving corps is a lot better than advertised.   

The crop of receivers that Reich has had to play with are not very good.  They are essentially guys that get pushed off the roster then back on.  Its why Ballard devoted two second rounders to add to the talent in the first place.

 

If TY needs replaced...and he probably does sooner than later....that definitely is another draft pick needed.  The issue is will Campbell show enough to take TYs role.  

 

I doubt it, so I think there is a good chance we'll need to draft another pretty high, 2nd or late first round quality.  A team still needs that one real threat at WR to make the defenses account for them.  Not sure that Campbell or Pittman is that kind of player.

 

We don't know.  I think we'll be in WR limbo for a while because I don't think you make a move with a first round pick this spring if you're still unsure what Campbell can do.

[Blueblood23]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The crop of receivers that Reich has had to play with are not very good.  They are essentially guys that get pushed off the roster then back on.  Its why Ballard devoted two second rounders to add to the talent in the first place.

 

If TY needs replaced...and he probably does sooner than later....that definitely is another draft pick needed.  The issue is will Campbell show enough to take TYs role.  

 

I doubt it, so I think there is a good chance we'll need to draft another pretty high, 2nd or late first round quality.  A team still needs that one real threat at WR to make the defenses account for them.  Not sure that Campbell or Pittman is that kind of player.

 

We don't know.  I think we'll be in WR limbo for a while because I don't think you make a move with a first round pick this spring if you're still unsure what Campbell can do.

Just a gut feeling, but Campbell seems to be injury prone. Two years in a row with very limited snaps and hurt again. Would like to be wrong on him and hope he becomes a productive player.

[Stephen]

Oline, wr, rb may be top three needs

[Mr.Debonair]

2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Oline, wr, rb may be top three needs

RB?

[Stephen]

32 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

RB?

Yea if marlon doesn't  come back we could have a better 1 to 2 punch

[landrus13]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Yea if marlon doesn't  come back we could have a better 1 to 2 punch

RB is far from the least of my worries on this team. Hines and Wilkins are very capable backs. Taylor will get better. And I think Mack comes back. He's obviously pretty valuable to this team. Running game hasn't been the same since he got hurt.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

19 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

At the end of the season, yes. Draft a true number one or prototypical one to add to the mix and go from there!

 

No more prototypes. Just get a dam stud. I don't care fit, measurable, scheme. A football player. 

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

4 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

Just a gut feeling, but Campbell seems to be injury prone. Two years in a row with very limited snaps and hurt again. Would like to be wrong on him and hope he becomes a productive player.

Luckily Campbell is on a rookie contract, but imo there is no way that we can afford hope, plan, whatever for him. He cannot be trusted to stay on the field. 

[Hoose]

You can’t go another season trusting Campbell. Some players just can’t stay healthy in the NFL. With Campbell, you hope for the best but expect the worst.

And TY simply  isn’t himself anymore. 
Which means:

1. TY is likely gone as a Colt. 
2. Campbell is a wish and a prayer until proven otherwise. 
3. The Colts need to go big at WR in 2021. Either a first pick stud or a free agent #1. Got to spend the capital next year. 

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

Yea if marlon doesn't  come back we could have a better 1 to 2 punch

Using that logic I’d argue QB is the biggest need if Philip doesn’t comeback.

[Stephen]

3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Using that logic I’d argue QB is the biggest need if Philip doesn’t comeback.

Eason or bust at that point

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Eason or bust at that point

Or you draft another QB.  A fourth pick isn’t a guy you have to give a chance too.  If the Colts let Rivers walk or he hangs them up there is a good chance the Colts take a QB high and let them battle it out with Eason for the starting job and the other becomes the backup.  Remember Jacoby is probably gone too so the Colts are going to have to do something about the backup slot at least even if you go with Eason and while I know people are going to say but they have Kelly my guess is they will want a more experienced vet to help mentor Eason.  
 

With that all said I expect them to keep Rivers if he keeps playing like has the past couple of weeks.