Is it time to move on from Hilton?

[CR91 11,053]

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance. I just don't see the same player anymore. I really don't wanna think he's a product of Luck because I do think he's easily the third best colt WR of all time.

[coltsfan_canada 205]

He does get a lot of PI or holding calls which does not show in stat sheet but I do think he has regressed

[GoColts8818 11,056]

I don’t know about that.  He had two good catches today including a TD called back because of flags and had another one that could have been called a catch not given to him on review.  He’s never been able to find the chemistry he had with Luck but I think at least a little bit of that is Luck making him and others better. 

[danlhart87 5,081]

should have moved on in 2019 when I made thread about trading ty

[Chloe6124 8,449]

He actually had a pretty good game today. Couple big plays called back by questionable penalties.

[Mr.Debonair 2,619]

He needs to be option 2 or 3. Having him at the 1 isn’t the move anymore. Maybe move him to the slot for most of his plays

[2006Coltsbestever 29,254]

No.

[GoColts8818 11,056]

1 minute ago, Mr.Debonair said:

He needs to be option 2 or 3. Having him at the 1 isn’t the move anymore. Maybe move him to the slot for most of his plays

So who should be option number one right now?  You really think pascal or Johnson are ready for that?

[krunk 12,871]

There is still 10 more games. I believe my guy will come around.

[PrincetonTiger 12,377]

[GoColts8818 11,056]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He actually had a pretty good game today. Couple big plays called back by questionable penalties.

Questionable trying to help the Bengals win Tomato Tomato.  Okay that work as well without sound.

[Chloe6124 8,449]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

So who should be option number one right now?  You really think pascal or Johnson are ready for that?

We spread the ball around really well today. If we keep that up maybe we don’t need a one.

[Mr.Debonair 2,619]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

So who should be option number one right now?  You really think pascal or Johnson are ready for that?

No but thats part of the problem. Waiting too long to find the #1 receiver whether it’s via the draft or free agency 

[GoColts8818 11,056]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

No but thats part of the problem. Waiting too long to find the #1 receiver whether it’s via the draft or free agency 

I think they are hoping Campbell or Pittman becomes that guy but injuries have slowed that down.

 

i will I really wish they had drafted brown over rock last year.

[John Waylon 3,763]

I think they need to change his role in the offense. He can’t be that guy who takes the top off the defense anymore. Put him in a different role. At least try. 

[Mr.Debonair 2,619]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think they are hoping Campbell or Pittman becomes that guy but injuries have slowed that down.

 

i will I really wish they had drafted brown over rock last year.

Yeah we passed on chances at DK, Brown, Samuel, Hardman. Opting to take Banogu over Brown, Hardman, and Metcalf

[Chloe6124 8,449]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

No but thats part of the problem. Waiting too long to find the #1 receiver whether it’s via the draft or free agency 

I think we would of seen Campbell start to be that one this year. Him and rivers had some good chemistry. Just not sure we can count on him bring the future anymore. We hope he can come back and have two great years but he has to have better injury luck.

[GoColts8818 11,056]

Just now, Mr.Debonair said:

Yeah we passed on chances at DK, Brown, Samuel, Hardman. Opting to take Banogu over Brown, Hardman, and Metcalf

Brown was the guy I wanted so bad in that draft oh well can’t win them all.

[Chloe6124 8,449]

1 minute ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Yeah we passed on chances at DK, Brown, Samuel, Hardman. Opting to take Banogu over Brown, Hardman, and Metcalf

It’s clear Bangogu was a major reach. It happens some times.

[richard pallo 3,094]

I don't think he is a true No. 1 receiver any more.  Time to find one in the off season or maybe at the trade deadline.  A true No. 1 along with Hilton and the rest would really give us an explosive, diverse and dangerous corp of receivers. 

[holeymoley99 287]

Wish there was a stat for yards gained through p.i. calls to help us track what wr are bringing in that capacity, T.Y. always seems to get us hidden yardage

[GoColts8818 11,056]

13 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It’s clear Bangogu was a major reach. It happens some times.

Learn from Jerry Hughes.  Don’t give up on a pass rusher too soon.  Polian used to say it takes three years for them to develop.  

Just now, holeymoley99 said:

Wish there was a stat for yards gained through p.i. calls to help us track what wr are bringing in that capacity, T.Y. always seems to get us hidden yardage

When the refs call it.  Today TY was getting mugged nothing.  Pascal bumps a guy flag!

[Four2itus 4,660]

What would that accomplish? I find it strange that fans are so uncomfortable with a players talents falling off, that the only way they can move forward is for them to be gone in some manner. Again, how does "moving on" from TY help the Colts? Would they save a # ton of money? Would that garnish a great draft pick?

 

My guess is that without TY in the lineup, defenses would game plan us even tougher. 

[GoColts8818 11,056]

1 minute ago, Four2itus said:

What would that accomplish? I find it strange that fans are so uncomfortable with a players talents falling off, that the only way they can move forward is for them to be gone in some manner. Again, how does "moving on from TY help the Colts? Would they save a # ton of money? would we garnish a great draft pick?

Well I believe his contract is up at season’s end.  I just think they will elect not to re-sign him at this point.  Kinda like what they did with Adam and Reggie when it was time.

[holeymoley99 287]

Refs today were off their game the entire time....T.Y. was mugged and should have drawn flags, better crews would have thrown them.

[John Waylon 3,763]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Yeah we passed on chances at DK, Brown, Samuel, Hardman. Opting to take Banogu over Brown, Hardman, and Metcalf

I really try not to think about passing on Brown. It stings. 

[zibby43 1,577]

3 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

What would that accomplish? I find it strange that fans are so uncomfortable with a players talents falling off, that the only way they can move forward is for them to be gone in some manner. Again, how does "moving on" from TY help the Colts? Would they save a # ton of money? Would that garnish a great draft pick?

 

Totally understand and respect where you're coming from, but in T.Y.'s case, his contract is up at the end of the season, and he's not going to be taking any "hometown" discounts to stay a Colt (in what might be his last NFL contract), and the Colts cannot afford to pay him like a #1 when he's not producing (traditional stats aren't there, and he's ranked in the upper 60s range with PFF this season). 

[GoColts8818 11,056]

4 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

Refs today were off their game the entire time....T.Y. was mugged and should have drawn flags, better crews would have thrown them.

This crew was the worst one I’ve seen in a LONG time.  It even got to the point when a flag came out the announcers were starting to openly question how the refs could call this one on the Colts.

[Four2itus 4,660]

23 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Well I believe his contract is up at season’s end.  I just think they will elect not to re-sign him at this point.  Kinda like what they did with Adam and Reggie when it was time.

 

19 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Totally understand and respect where you're coming from, but in T.Y.'s case, his contract is up at the end of the season, and he's not going to be taking any "hometown" discounts to stay a Colt (in what might be his last NFL contract), and the Colts cannot afford to pay him like a #1 when he's not producing (traditional stats aren't there, and he's ranked in the upper 60s range with PFF this season). 

I get it....and I get that he won't take a discount. However, I believe that if the Colts had a consistent #2 WR, which TY hasn't had since Reggie left, I believe this conversation is not happening. I started a WR thread a year ago, detailing our drafts with respect to the WR position for 20 years. It got some response, and what I did get, was that it was the QB position that was the problem. I posted in that thread again about 6 months?  I quoted it again a week ago and it got no responses. My point it...no one wants to talk about using our highest pick to draft a WR. I do. I think it has been a mistake to not do so for so long. 

 

We've taken two first round picks in the last 19 years @ WR, and those were at slot 32, & 29. That will simply not get it done. 

 

Here it is if your interested in looking at the numbers, and our history.....  The future at WR

[NewColtsFan 21,822]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance. I just don't see the same player anymore. I really don't wanna think he's a product of Luck because I do think he's easily the third best colt WR of all time.

In California, my calendar says mid-October.    Apparently in Indiana, the calendar says January and the season is over. 
 

Can we please, Please, PLEASE not decide the fate of any player when the season isn’t even halfway over?  
 

Other teams are doubling TYH because there’s no one else yet to fear.  So they’re trying to take him out of the game.   Doesn’t mean TY can’t play.   It means he and Phillip need other weapons.    You know, like Campbell and Pittman?    He may not be as great as he once was,  but he can still help the Colts win games.    
 

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.   

[PrincetonTiger 12,377]

36 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

This crew was the worst one I’ve seen in a LONG time.  It even got to the point when a flag came out the announcers were starting to openly question how the refs could call this one on the Colts.

The crew was bad

[EastStreet 7,618]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm the biggest Hilton fan, however the production is just not there without Luck. He hasn't had a 100 yard game for 16 straight games now following another lackluster performance. I just don't see the same player anymore. I really don't wanna think he's a product of Luck because I do think he's easily the third best colt WR of all time.

The short answer is no. But we don't offer big dollars or a long term deal either. Offer him a moderate 2 year deal, and move him to slot where he can be more effective. 

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

should have moved on in 2019 when I made thread about trading ty

Colts FO would not do that.

24 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

Totally understand and respect where you're coming from, but in T.Y.'s case, his contract is up at the end of the season, and he's not going to be taking any "hometown" discounts to stay a Colt (in what might be his last NFL contract), and the Colts cannot afford to pay him like a #1 when he's not producing (traditional stats aren't there, and he's ranked in the upper 60s range with PFF this season). 

Not sure what your definition of home town discount is, but why not?

 

Teams aren't going to be throwing crazy money his way, and they certainly aren't going to offer a high dollar long term deal. Also consider this years WR draft class was supposed to be crazy good (who knows how it will be looked at with covid).

 

There's only a handful of WRs in the top 32 (legit WR 1s) who are 30 or more. TY will be 31 next season. And he's 45th right now in yards, with more targets by far than anyone on the team. That coupled with his injury history over the past couple years won't cause teams to get into a bidding war. 

 

Right now he's the 18th highest paid WR at 13M a year, while ranked 45th. He no longer separates like he used to, struggles often to get behind DBs, has had his share of drops, and doesn't have the best catch % either. 

 

All that said, I love TY and want to keep him. He needs to move inside to slot though where he can be more effective. I don't see why he wouldn't consider 8-11M a year for two years. That's still top 32 pay, and let's him possibly retire here.

 

 

[GoColts8818 11,056]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The short answer is no. But we don't offer big dollars or a long term deal either. Offer him a moderate 2 year deal, and move him to slot where he can be more effective. 

Colts FO would not do that.

Not sure what your definition of home town discount is, but why not?

 

Teams aren't going to be throwing crazy money his way, and they certainly aren't going to offer a high dollar long term deal. Also consider this years WR draft class was supposed to be crazy good (who knows how it will be looked at with covid).

 

There's only a handful of WRs in the top 32 (legit WR 1s) who are 30 or more. TY will be 31 next season. And he's 45th right now in yards, with more targets by far than anyone on the team. That coupled with his injury history over the past couple years won't cause teams to get into a bidding war. 

 

Right now he's the 18th highest paid WR at 13M a year, while ranked 45th. He no longer separates like he used to, struggles often to get behind DBs, has had his share of drops, and doesn't have the best catch % either. 

 

All that said, I love TY and want to keep him. He needs to move inside to slot though where he can be more effective. I don't see why he wouldn't consider 8-11M a year for two years. That's still top 32 pay, and let's him possibly retire here.

 

 

I think it’s more a question on if the Colts will be interested in keeping him than him wanting to stay.  How Pittman does when he gets back and how TY finishes the season will probably answer that question.

[Jaredfor3 150]

TY Hilton is better over the top and don’t think we utilize him like we should. 
 

[DontEverGiveUp 518]

TY had drop issues early in the season, and he might not be what he used to be.

 

But he's playing better than the stats show.  Drawing lots of PIs, and some have gone uncalled.

 

In my opinion, he's fine right now.  Not a game-breaker, but still a definite threat.  He's due for a big statistical game, it's coming soon...just hope it is accompanied by a win.

[zibby43 1,577]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

The short answer is no. But we don't offer big dollars or a long term deal either. Offer him a moderate 2 year deal, and move him to slot where he can be more effective. 

Colts FO would not do that.

Not sure what your definition of home town discount is, but why not?

 

Teams aren't going to be throwing crazy money his way, and they certainly aren't going to offer a high dollar long term deal. Also consider this years WR draft class was supposed to be crazy good (who knows how it will be looked at with covid).

 

There's only a handful of WRs in the top 32 (legit WR 1s) who are 30 or more. TY will be 31 next season. And he's 45th right now in yards, with more targets by far than anyone on the team. That coupled with his injury history over the past couple years won't cause teams to get into a bidding war. 

 

Right now he's the 18th highest paid WR at 13M a year, while ranked 45th. He no longer separates like he used to, struggles often to get behind DBs, has had his share of drops, and doesn't have the best catch % either. 

 

All that said, I love TY and want to keep him. He needs to move inside to slot though where he can be more effective. I don't see why he wouldn't consider 8-11M a year for two years. That's still top 32 pay, and let's him possibly retire here.

 

 

 

I think Hilton is still getting great separation and running great routes.  Age hasn't slowed him down one bit in that regard, IMHO. 

 

 

I think the Colts are misusing him.  And he's constantly having to move around in the offense to combat the onslaught of WR injuries. 

 

If Reich was more committed to the vertical passing game, and letting Hilton do what he does best, I think you'd see better numbers.

 

My sole issue with T.Y. this year has been drops.  If the Colts aren't committed to signing him, an offense with a QB/approach dedicated to slinging it downfield will find value in Hilton.   

[EastStreet 7,618]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it’s more a question on if the Colts will be interested in keeping him than him wanting to stay.  How Pittman does when he gets back and how TY finishes the season will probably answer that question.

I was more or less replying to zibs Colts friendly deal comment. But I do think the Colts will want him to stay, just in a different role, and at lower pay.

 

PIttman really impacts Pascal more than anything. Pascal is also in a contract year. 

[GoColts8818 11,056]

Just now, EastStreet said:

I was more or less replying to zibs Colts friendly deal comment. But I do think the Colts will want him to stay, just in a different role, and at lower pay.

 

PIttman really impacts Pascal more than anything. Pascal is also in a contract year. 

I think it’s a toss up on TY right now.  Ballard might also like one of those highly talented WRs in this draft.  

[bestQBever 1,310]

I've said from the start that Luck is the reason TY is TY. Luck made Fleener, Allen, and moncrief look like future studs. He made people forget Ebron is a bust. They all crashed and burned once they left indy.

[EastStreet 7,618]

Just now, zibby43 said:

 

I think Hilton is still getting great separation and running great routes.  Age hasn't slowed him down one bit in that regard, IMHO. 

 

 

that's horrible coverage lol... And it's not a speed route. It's a post corner. But yes, he ran a good route, but again, more technique than speed. 

Just now, zibby43 said:

I think the Colts are misusing him.  And he's constantly having to move around in the offense to combat the onslaught of WR injuries. 

TY is a Z, and has stayed there. Z however is the position that "moves" around, or motions most often.

He's actually getting less slot share than he was last year (18% in 2019, down to 15%).

Just now, zibby43 said:

If Reich was more committed to the vertical passing game, and letting Hilton do what he does best, I think you'd see better numbers.

I don't see Reich ever being a heavy vert guy here. And I don't think TY has the speed to beat a lot of the DBs today.

Just now, zibby43 said:

My sole issue with T.Y. this year has been drops.  If the Colts aren't committed to signing him, an offense with a QB/approach dedicated to slinging it downfield will find value in Hilton.   

My biggest is separation. His sep #s started dropping last year and have stayed pretty mediocre since the soft tissue injuries. He'd get more consistent separation running in the slot where he's not doubled, and can go up against NBs, SSs, and LBs.