The real culprit in all this is the Owner (merge)

[Hoose]

The criticism of Pagano and his lousy staff is totally justified. But who is the guy who not only signed him up in the first place, but then gave him a 4 year extension when it was clear that Pagano had serious issues as a head coach? And then gave another 4 years to Grigson when it was clear Grigson stunk in the job! Then fired Grigson one year after that!

The fact is, Jim Irsay has been at the helm of this fast sinking ship, and it has been his awful decision making as the owner that has caused the team to flounder. He is the cause of this current mess, and  so long as he has the reins, it gives me pause to wonder if the team will ever be able to improve enough to become a winner again. I love the Colts, but their owner is destroying this team. 

[csmopar]

[GusFring]

He wants to be Jerry Jones so bad. Also, he seems to think he had something to do with the Manning era other than just signing checks. 

[Superman]

I couldn't disagree more.

[OffensivelyPC]

Did you not follow the Polian/Dungy era?

[RollerColt]

[21isSuperman]

I've been very critical of Irsay in the last few years.  While a lot of the issues can be stemmed to him, I think he's making moves in the right direction.  He isn't trying to force something that isn't there.  He stuck with Grigson too long, but did make the right move to fire him and I think bringing in Ballard was another good move.  It's going to take time to see the results

[jameszeigler834]

9 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I've been very critical of Irsay in the last few years.  While a lot of the issues can be stemmed to him, I think he's making moves in the right direction.  He isn't trying to force something that isn't there.  He stuck with Grigson too long, but did make the right move to fire him and I think bringing in Ballard was another good move.  It's going to take time to see the results

We wont see results until we hire a coaching staff that isn't terrible at their job.

[Cynjin]

Maybe Carly should stage a coup.

[luv_pony_express]

Oh come on.  Were you singing this tune in the Manning era?  I'm going to guess you weren't.

 

I agree that Irsay should've cut bait with Grigson earlier than he did.  At the time of the infamous press conference, my thought was "Fire Grigson, keep Pagano."  I've since come to the opinion that Pagano probably needs to go, too.  I won't hold him accountable for our roster shortfalls.  But he makes way too many sideline mistakes for an experienced football coach.

 

But I have a lot of faith in Ballard....who, BTW, was hired by Jim Irsay (as were Hall of Famers Dungy and Polian).

[Dingus McGirt]

3 minutes ago, luv_pony_express said:

Oh come on.  Were you singing this tune in the Manning era?  I'm going to guess you weren't.

 

I agree that Irsay should've cut bait with Grigson earlier than he did.  At the time of the infamous press conference, my thought was "Fire Grigson, keep Pagano."  I've since come to the opinion that Pagano probably needs to go, too.  I won't hold him accountable for our roster shortfalls.  But he makes way too many sideline mistakes for an experienced football coach.

 

But I have a lot of faith in Ballard....who, BTW, was hired by Jim Irsay (as were Hall of Famers Dungy and Polian).

Yep.  I never, for once - until recently, longed for the days of Jim Caldwell.

[Jason_]

how quickly we forget...Irsay is also the one who brought in Polian, and then Dungy, who helped put this team on the map in the first place.

[lollygagger8]

Ballard wouldn't came to Indy if he didn't believe in Irsay and the Colts. 

 

He's quirky, but Irsay is one of the best owners in the NFL. 

[Valpo2004]

1 hour ago, GusFring said:

He wants to be Jerry Jones so bad. Also, he seems to think he had something to do with the Manning era other than just signing checks. 

 

If he wanted to be Jerry Jones he could be Jerry Jones all he has to do is appoint himself the General Manager.  

 

He has not done that, he has consistently for years hired someone else to be the GM.  

 

He's made some mistakes, but lets not overstate things here.  He's not trying to be Jerry Jones.  

[Roger]

Jimbo exemplifies the danger of making a boat load of money.  Inherited money is one way to make an offspring irresponsible.  They have success tgey never earned. They never learned anything because everything is handed to them.  Usually, a family can only make it one or two generations beyond the guy who swung the axe before petering out.

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, Roger said:

Jimbo exemplifies the danger of making a boat load of money.  Inherited money is one way to make an offspring irresponsible.  They have success tgey never earned. They never learned anything because everything is handed to them.  Usually, a family can only make it one or two generations beyond the guy who swung the axe before petering out.

 

[NannyMcafee]

For 14 years the colts broke amazing records. In the last 5 we have broken too many of the wrong records. 

[jet1968]

Irsay isnt the one that is throwing interceptions, missing tackles,fumbleing, or not blocking. When it comes down to it, the players are not doing their jobs.

[TheMarine]

Team has many issues. 

 

Ownership isnt one. I also don't see why people are surprised by the current results. With the exception of last years draft (Kelly) and the first (Luck, Hilton) the team has been lacking depth inside and out. 

[deedub75]

37 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Ballard wouldn't came to Indy if he didn't believe in Irsay and the Colts. 

 

He's quirky, but Irsay is one of the best owners in the NFL. 

 

I think he still would have taken the job. Those opportunities don't open up every day. 

[deedub75]

Owners are humans too and they age and lose their edge just like anyone else. I don't believe this Irsay is the same Irsay who brought in Polian and Dungy. It could be time for him to start passing the torch. 

[indy1888]

I actually agree and i say that as someone who likes Irsay as an owner. The Polian/Dungy days are long gone  and i think the last few years Irsay messed around too much in some personnel decisions. What made the Polian era so good was that Bill Polian ran the show and Jim Irsay stayed out of it and let him do it.   IMO, i think our current QB fiasco has Irsay's prints all over it as well.  If not, then we should all be very worried that our new GM managed to screw up the biggest position on the team in his first year. I think it's more likely Ballard was not allowed to make the move because Irsay didn't wanna spend the money on a QB in what he views as a lost season with possible high draft picks coming as a result. He was fine with taking his beatings with Tolzein. The lack of any urgency over the QB position all offseason is completely baffling if this team had any real commitment to at least trying to be competitve.

[1959Colts]

I blame Irsay. He has made many poor decisions.

[Devildog]

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

 

I think he still would have taken the job. Those opportunities don't open up every day. 

 

He turned down several offers and interview requests. 

[throwing BBZ]

2 hours ago, Hoose said:

The criticism of Pagano and his lousy staff is totally justified. But who is the guy who not only signed him up in the first place, but then gave him a 4 year extension when it was clear that Pagano had serious issues as a head coach? And then gave another 4 years to Grigson when it was clear Grigson stunk in the job! Then fired Grigson one year after that!

The fact is, Jim Irsay has been at the helm of this fast sinking ship, and it has been his awful decision making as the owner that has caused the team to flounder. He is the cause of this current mess, and  so long as he has the reins, it gives me pause to wonder if the team will ever be able to improve enough to become a winner again. I love the Colts, but their owner is destroying this team. 

 

 Ultimately true.
 Remember, when many of these decisions happened, unfortunately he wasn't doing well personally.
 He stated in there he mentored (stayed deeply in the decision making making process at times?).
  I want to believe that personal growth and Ballard, will be a change in the Colts future. 

[Superman]

19 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

IMO, i think our current QB fiasco has Irsay's prints all over it as well.  If not, then we should all be very worried that our new GM managed to screw up the biggest position on the team in his first year. I think it's more likely Ballard was not allowed to make the move because Irsay didn't wanna spend the money on a QB in what he views as a lost season with possible high draft picks coming as a result. He was fine with taking his beatings with Tolzein. The lack of any urgency over the QB position all offseason is completely baffling if this team had any real commitment to at least trying to be competitve.

 

Occam's razor. They thought Tolzien was better than he is. It's not that difficult or complicated. 

[indy1888]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Occam's razor. They thought Tolzien was better than he is. It's not that difficult or complicated. 

 

LOL, if thats the case then they are in even more trouble then we think. He was so good they are considering starting a guy who has been here a little over a week in the 2nd game of the season.  What does that say about our player evaluation then?  I stand by my opinion that Ballard isn't that dumb, they looked at other QBs and Irsay didn't wanna spend the money, he admitted that.

[azcolt]

For those of you old enough to remember, just be glad the owner is no longer Robert Irsay, although the team is on a par with some of Bob's worst. And that's not good.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, indy1888 said:

 

LOL, if thats the case then they are in even more trouble then we think. He was so good they are considering starting a guy who has been here a little over a week in the 2nd game of the season.  What does that say about our player evaluation then?  I stand by my opinion that Ballard isn't that dumb, they looked at other QBs and Irsay didn't wanna spend the money, he admitted that.

 

Irsay has never shied away from spending money, and Ballard doesn't make roster decisions on the basis of contract status. 

 

It's very obvious that their evaluation of the QB position led them to believe Tolzien would be good enough to handle the job in the short term. That contributed to not signing another QB to a bigger contract. It's also very obvious that they were wrong about Tolzien.

 

You're twisting this into a tanking conspiracy, when the simple and easy to understand explanation is that they missed badly on Tolzien. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

34 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

I blame Irsay. He has made many poor decisions.

 

 

OK, everyone raise their hands who hadn't ever made poor...even terrible decisions in her/his life!!!

[WoolMagnet]

Somebody left the door to the padded cell unlocked again.

[indy1888]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Irsay has never shied away from spending money, and Ballard doesn't make roster decisions on the basis of contract status. 

 

It's very obvious that their evaluation of the QB position led them to believe Tolzien would be good enough to handle the job in the short term. That contributed to not signing another QB to a bigger contract. It's also very obvious that they were wrong about Tolzien.

 

You're twisting this into a tanking conspiracy, when the simple and easy to understand explanation is that they missed badly on Tolzien. 

 

I never used the word tanking, but when Jim Irsay goes on television and preaches patience, why do you think he does that? Is it because he expects to win a lot this coming season or does he expect to maybe take quite a few beatdowns like we saw this past Sunday?  They didn't miss on Tolzein at all, they know he isn't very good. Everyone in the NFL knows that. He's never won a game for gods sake. Again, if they missed on Tolzein as you claim, what does that say about our GM and head coach, ones that Jim Irsay hired by the way?

[Defjamz26]

This really is a "What have you done for me lately" league. Colts fans need to stop clinging on to the past and using as a go to excuse to defend the team.

 

The Polian and Dungy years are over. If you consider that Dungy retired in 2008, it's been almost a decade. You can no longer use that as an excuse to justify Jim Irsay. You don't have to think he's a bad owner, but the justification has to be more than stuff he did 10 years ago or the fact that "Well we could be the Browns ". Those arguments are outdated and redundant.

 

Since the end of the last era, Jim has released arguably the GOAT QB, drafted Luck, gotten himself suspended, hired one of the worse GMs in recent memory, fired said GM the next year after extending him, and has a HC likely on his way out 2 years after his extension. I don't think Irsay is a bad owner but he hasn't really done anything LATELY to warrant being called one of the best GMs in the NFL.

 

The problem with his defenders is they're so overly devoted fans that they can't handle the thought of the Colts not being as good as they've made them out to be so they desperately hang on to the past and use the "could be worse" rhetoric to defend them at any cost.

 

I won't say names but these are the people who when you talk about Pagano being a bad coach they reply fast enough with "Three 11-5 seasons ". They'll even talk about how he has no loosing seasons as if 8-8 is a proud achievement and it's so much better than 7-9. These are the people who are reading this post and already saying in their head that the Colts fan base is spoiled by so much winning in the 2,000's and we should be grateful to not be a team like the Browns. These are the people who can't wait to throw names of "worse" owners the moment you try and say anything about Irsay.

 

As I said before, I don't think Irsay is a bad  owner. But he's missed lately and his misses have really hurt the team recently. Again, it's fine if people think otherwise but I have to hear an argument that doesn't talk about the 2000s Colts or use another team that hasn't achieved as an example.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

I never used the word tanking, but when Jim Irsay goes on television and preaches patience, why do you think he does that? Is it because he expects to win a lot this coming season or does he expect to maybe take quite a few beatdowns like we saw this past Sunday?  They didn't miss on Tolzein at all, they know he isn't very good. Everyone in the NFL knows that. He's never won a game for gods sake. Again, if they missed on Tolzein as you claim, what does that say about our GM and head coach, ones that Jim Irsay hired by the way?

 

Depends on the context, but mostly because Irsay knows the roster is still a work in progress and the team isn't a contender this year. That doesn't mean he'd refuse to pay for a better QB if the staff banged on the table for one. We know he would greenlight anything the staff asked for, because he always does.

 

As for Tolzien, they clearly missed on him. Any argument to the contrary is a suggestion that they're purposely trying to lose games, and that's a nonstarter. Pagano is coaching for his job. 

 

And it says that they missed on their QB evaluation. It's not the first time that's happened in the NFL. The coaches thought Tolzien could handle it, and they were wrong. Again, not the first time, won't be the last. Whether they correct their mistake, and how long it takes to do so, is what I'm wondering. 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

And it says that they missed on their QB evaluation. It's not the first time that's happened in the NFL. The coaches thought Tolzien could handle it, and they were wrong. Again, not the first time, won't be the last. Whether they correct their mistake, and how long it takes to do so, is what I'm wondering. 

I also wonder if they were expecting Andrew to be back sooner, thus the reason to just keep rolling with Tolzien. 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

This really is a "What have you done for me lately" league. Colts fans need to stop clinging on to the past and using as a go to excuse to defend the team.

 

The Polian and Dungy years are over. If you consider that Dungy retired in 2008, it's been almost a decade. You can no longer use that as an excuse to justify Jim Irsay. You don't have to think he's a bad owner, but the justification has to be more than stuff he did 10 years ago or the fact that "Well we could be the Browns ". Those arguments are outdated and redundant.

 

Since the end of the last era, Jim has released arguably the GOAT QB, drafted Luck, gotten himself suspended, hired one of the worse GMs in recent memory, fired said GM the next year after extending him, and has a HC likely on his way out 2 years after his extension. I don't think Irsay is a bad owner but he hasn't really done anything LATELY to warrant being called one of the best GMs in the NFL.

 

The problem with his defenders is they're so overly devoted fans that they can't handle the thought of the Colts not being as good as they've made them out to be so they desperately hang on to the past and use the "could be worse" rhetoric to defend them at any cost.

 

I won't say names but these are the people who when you talk about Pagano being a bad coach they reply fast enough with "Three 11-5 seasons ". They'll even talk about how he has no loosing seasons as if 8-8 is a proud achievement and it's so much better than 7-9. These are the people who are reading this post and already saying in their head that the Colts fan base is spoiled by so much winning in the 2,000's and we should be grateful to not be a team like the Browns. These are the people who can't wait to throw names of "worse" owners the moment you try and say anything about Irsay.

 

As I said before, I don't think Irsay is a bad  owner. But he's missed lately and his misses have really hurt the team recently. Again, it's fine if people think otherwise but I have to hear an argument that doesn't talk about the 2000s Colts or use another team that hasn't achieved as an example.

 

Passive aggressive post is passive aggressive.

 

Releasing Peyton Manning was the right move. It was also a difficult decision to make, yet Irsay made it, owned it, and was right to do so. Why even bring that up?

 

Acting like hiring and retaining Grigson and Pagano is a black mark on Irsay's record is nonsense. First, pretty much every owner has made a bad hire or two. Second, the legend of how awful Grigson and Pagano were/are is way overblown. 

 

You say Colts fans need to stop clinging to the past. I say some need to stop being prisoners of the moment, especially when you're talking about big picture stuff like the way the owner runs the operation. 

[Superman]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

I also wonder if they were expecting Andrew to be back sooner, thus the reason to just keep rolling with Tolzien. 

 

They knew all along the possibility existed that Luck would miss some games. Maybe they expected him back for Week 1, but they considered what they would do if he wasn't back, and decided Tolzien was the guy. 

[deedub75]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Depends on the context, but mostly because Irsay knows the roster is still a work in progress and the team isn't a contender this year. That doesn't mean he'd refuse to pay for a better QB if the staff banged on the table for one. We know he would greenlight anything the staff asked for, because he always does.

 

As for Tolzien, they clearly missed on him. Any argument to the contrary is a suggestion that they're purposely trying to lose games, and that's a nonstarter. Pagano is coaching for his job. 

 

And it says that they missed on their QB evaluation. It's not the first time that's happened in the NFL. The coaches thought Tolzien could handle it, and they were wrong. Again, not the first time, won't be the last. Whether they correct their mistake, and how long it takes to do so, is what I'm wondering. 

 

I don't believe they are tanking. I do believe that they either thought Luck was going to be ready for the regular season so it made no sense to go out and sign a veteran QB to fill in only to release him relatively quickly, or they knew Luck was going to miss several games and the team isn't talented enough to win without a franchise QB playing. I also believe Chuck was retained because Irsay couldn't get the coach he wanted so Chuck is here to weather this rebuild. 

[Hoose]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They knew all along the possibility existed that Luck would miss some games. Maybe they expected him back for Week 1, but they considered what they would do if he wasn't back, and decided Tolzien was the guy. 

You are too eager to write off the fact that this team has the worst head coach in the NFL--- And that this debacle under Pagano hasn't really degenerated into a miserable situation right now. Pagano is a terrible coach. His player evaluation is very poor. Irsay  has reigned over Pagano's  mess for what, 6 years now? I will grant you that Ballard seems to be a breath of fresh air and it does give me some hope. But unless Irsay gets out of the way and let's Ballard do his job, I do fear for the team's  future. That means letting Ballard get the coaching staff in here that he believes can turn the corner and guide the team back to respectability. If Irsay can let go of the reins, things can change for the better. If not.......