The real culprit in all this is the Owner (merge)

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

 

Here is what I see with Pagano and these in-game management decisions - he looks frantic all the time and rushes to make a decision.  He does not present a calm image on the sideline and these questionable decisions to me show that.    There are too many of them over the years that suggest he has not gotten better at it either.

 

Yes....     in agreement with you and Superman.

 

It's Year 6 and he's still making decisions that I would expect by now he wouldn't.

 

I'm perfectly fine whenever Ballard is ready to cut the cord.    If it's the end of the season --- fine.

 

It's it's during the season,   then fine too.

 

I didn't mean to suggest that his problems just aren't that bad.      Only that I think the reaction here to him is way, WAY over the top.     And, I'm not talking about Superman,   No issue with him on this topic.

 

I'm talking about the outraged angry fan who thinks Pagano's issues are just short of crimes against humanity.

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I think some of you older guys have issues with semantics. It's like if we don't explicitly say X=X you guys are incapable of reading between the lines. You guys take everything black and white and don't use common sense to see that someone isn't talking from a factual standpoint. That's not just with me, but a few people on this board. Like if you don't put "in my opinion " before what is clearly just an opinion you get accused of stating things as if they're fact.

 

Yes 8-8 and 7-9 are not equal. However in football terms, there's not much difference. It's 1 game. There's a big difference between a 4-12 team and and 8-8 team though. That why using 8-8 as a defense of Pagano is pointless. He was 1 game away from having a losing season. It's not like he won a whole bunch of games that ensured we wouldn't be close to a losing season. We were right on that edge. 

 

I hear your point about people complaining but again, you're taking these far too literal. Saying Pagano is the worst coach in the NFL probably isn't people actually believing that, but expressing frustration. Do you expect a frustrated fan to say "OMG Fire Pagano!!!Hes a somewhere in the middle coach"? I think what it boils down to is that you have unrealistic expectations of how fans should talk about the team. I don't read nearly as much into stuff as you do. I know it's just words and hyperbole. 

 

 

I think you understand that.....   but I've taken others to task for just those sentiments,  and they don' react the same way.     They push back HARD!

 

They really do think he's one of, if not THE worst coach in football.     Even when I explain it to them.     They're THAT angry.     That outraged.      And I know they're angry at more than Pagano.    They're still angry with Grigson and they're PO'D at Irsay and with the coordinators,  etc.  etc.

 

But right now,  it's Pagano in the bullseye.     As I've noted in a number of threads (and perhaps you have not seen them)     but I'm really not a fan of the pitchfork and lit torches crowd....    the mob mentality is always a huge turnoff for me.  

 

Whatever anyone thiks of Pagano,  and we can agree to disagree on exactly what he is,   I thinL we can all agree that the Colts deserve and need better.     Much better.       I hope this paragraph resonates and we can ring the bells of agreement and let their be peace throughout Colts Nation!!

 

I'm ready for a new Colts Era.....    and it will happen in the next 4 months....

 

NCF

 

[CF4L]

You will get flack OP but I agree which is why it doesn't really matter to me what moves they make unless Irsay is gone or takes a reduced role like he has before the Colts aren't doing anything that matters.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 9/12/2017 at 2:42 PM, indy1888 said:

I actually agree and i say that as someone who likes Irsay as an owner. The Polian/Dungy days are long gone  and i think the last few years Irsay messed around too much in some personnel decisions. What made the Polian era so good was that Bill Polian ran the show and Jim Irsay stayed out of it and let him do it.   IMO, i think our current QB fiasco has Irsay's prints all over it as well.  If not, then we should all be very worried that our new GM managed to screw up the biggest position on the team in his first year. I think it's more likely Ballard was not allowed to make the move because Irsay didn't wanna spend the money on a QB in what he views as a lost season with possible high draft picks coming as a result. He was fine with taking his beatings with Tolzein. The lack of any urgency over the QB position all offseason is completely baffling if this team had any real commitment to at least trying to be competitve.

i concur

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

I think you understand that.....   but I've taken others to task for just those sentiments,  and they don' react the same way.     They push back HARD!

 

They really do think he's one of, if not THE worst coach in football.     Even when I explain it to them.     They're THAT angry.     That outraged.      And I know they're angry at more than Pagano.    They're still angry with Grigson and they're PO'D at Irsay and with the coordinators,  etc.  etc.

 

But right now,  it's Pagano in the bullseye.     As I've noted in a number of threads (and perhaps you have not seen them)     but I'm really not a fan of the pitchfork and lit torches crowd....    the mob mentality is always a huge turnoff for me.  

 

Whatever anyone thiks of Pagano,  and we can agree to disagree on exactly what he is,   I thinL we can all agree that the Colts deserve and need better.     Much better.       I hope this paragraph resonates and we can ring the bells of agreement and let their be peace throughout Colts Nation!!

 

I'm ready for a new Colts Era.....    and it will happen in the next 4 months....

 

NCF

 

It really depends on what their criteria is. I think you assume everyone makes assertions based on the same factors, which for you is Wins, Losses, and playoffs. By that criteria, Pagano is far from the worst coach in the game.

 

But let's change it up and say someone else looks at in-game coaching decisions. The argument that he's the worst coach in the NFL based on that metric, would have more merit. Heck it could be a multitude of factors that the people who actually believe he is the worst HC in NFL use to judge him.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

It really depends on what their criteria is. I think you assume everyone makes assertions based on the same factors, which for you is Wins, Losses, and playoffs. By that criteria, Pagano is far from the worst coach in the game.

 

But let's change it up and say someone else looks at in-game coaching decisions. The argument that he's the worst coach in the NFL based on that metric, would have more merit. Heck it could be a multitude of factors that the people who actually believe he is the worst HC in NFL use to judge him.

 

Please don't try to give uneducated people political cover.

 

These people aren't talking about metrics.      This Black and White.       Pagano is evil and must be destroyed.    He must go as soon as possible and firing him retroactive to two years ago might not be soon enough.      There are people who are hating him right now with a blood curdling passion.     And if you're not aware of it,  then you're not reading the threads.

 

There isn't nuance in this crowd.    There's never been nuance in this crowd.     There are several dozen here who understand that....       But that group is in the extreme minority here.      We have a mob now.   And it's pretty ugly to see.     They see the Colts doing bad and someone must be held responsible and that someone is Chuck Pagano.

 

That's their metric  --- period.

  

[MackAttack]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:52 PM, J@son said:

how quickly we forget...Irsay is also the one who brought in Polian, and then Dungy, who helped put this team on the map in the first place.

they had peyton manning.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, MackAttack said:

they had peyton manning.

 

And who drafted him?

[Gramz]

2 hours ago, MackAttack said:

they had peyton manning.

Who exactly do you think drafted him?

[Defjamz26]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Please don't try to give uneducated people political cover.

 

These people aren't talking about metrics.      This Black and White.       Pagano is evil and must be destroyed.    He must go as soon as possible and firing him retroactive to two years ago might not be soon enough.      There are people who are hating him right now with a blood curdling passion.     And if you're not aware of it,  then you're not reading the threads.

 

There isn't nuance in this crowd.    There's never been nuance in this crowd.     There are several dozen here who understand that....       But that group is in the extreme minority here.      We have a mob now.   And it's pretty ugly to see.     They see the Colts doing bad and someone must be held responsible and that someone is Chuck Pagano.

 

That's their metric  --- period.

  

There will be extremists always. But it's not to hard to root out the extremists from the aggravated Colts fan. You say those people are in the minority but how do you know? If you look at every angry (and deservedly so) Colts fan the same then, it would appear that everyone are just a giant angry mob of fans who blood by any means. And I think the problem lies there.

 

As I mentioned earlier I think you assume all of the Pagano hate/hyperbole is by uneducated people who refuse to look at facts, based on your own independent standards you hold for what makes a good, bad, or somewhere in the middle coach/Owner.I think people mostly judge Pagano by how the team looks, and not solely how many games they won or lose. I don't think there's anyone pig headed enough to form an opinion based on false facts. I'm sure even the most blood thirsty fan thinks that Pagano has the worst record ever. That's obvious to even a child.

 

You're a facts guys, so your immediate response to anything that seems to be to the contrary of what the facts say is to list the facts as an infallible counter because facts are facts. Numbers don't lie. Whatever the numbers show must be true. And when you have the extremists who make strong claims but don't present any facts, it seems like an easy argument for you.

 

However, job performance evaluation is not based entirely in facts and numbers. There are other factors too. Work ethic, preparedness, difficulty of the tasks, consistency, attitude, recent accomplishments, etc...all come into play. Being a lead at my job, I know this to be true. Pagano and Irsay are evaluated on more than just numbers. And although it's not the fans who sign their checks, they have a right to judge them how they see fit, especially since they have no bearing on their actual employment. Regardless of how convoluted or absurd their metrics may be. There's no right or wrong way of looking at Pagano's record for example. There's no right or wrong as to whether Irsay is a good owner. It's fine not to agree with someone's opinion, but you should always ask what the basis for their claim is. If the basis is on facts that are entirely false, then it can be dismisssed. But if it's a subjective interpretation on things, it can't really be dismissed with "facts".

[Guest]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:54 PM, lollygagger8 said:

Ballard wouldn't came to Indy if he didn't believe in Irsay and the Colts. 

 

He's quirky, but Irsay is one of the best owners in the NFL.