What Are We Paying Allen For?

[Defjamz26]

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

[dw49]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

 

Decent to good football players often do very well signing their second contract. Give Allen a few more games before passing judgement.

[braveheartcolt]

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

[theanarchist]

2 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

I've been disappointed with Allen also. I've noticed the drops as well. He needs to step it up, I think production is in there but it's time for him to start being a reliable target.

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

Yes he dropped a sure TD and a sure first down the last game. I didn't bring it up because I wanted Fleener over Allen but till the Saints last game Fleener hadn't done anything either.

It's been a long time removed since they both caught 8 TDs apiece.

[superrep1967]

45 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

Yes I'm not a fan of Allen's at all.

[crazycolt1]

47 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

The system has zero to do with the drops and crucial times.

[rockywoj]

18 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

Methinks we did NOT let the wrong guy go ... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000711833/article/coby-fleener-andre-johnson-among-struggling-pickups

 

"Tight end Coby Fleener's mistakes cost New Orleans in two close games. Even after a big fantasy performance on Monday night, Fleener is ranked No. 42 among 59 tight end qualifiers on Pro Football Focus."

 

 

[superrep1967]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

The system has zero to do with the drops and crucial times.

 

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes he dropped a sure TD and a sure first down the last game. I didn't bring it up because I wanted Fleener over Allen but till the Saints last game Fleener hadn't done anything either.

It's been a long time removed since they both caught 8 TDs apiece.

I heard was at least that Fleener was having trouble learning the offense and Stanford Grad. 

[krunk]

There's 16 games and we've played 3 so far. Very early to be asking this I think. Give it more time. Give it more time. I think he will be a focal point of this game in fact.

[Dustin]

Because playing TE is more than just about catching passes. 

 

Also Allen is well-needed short yardage chain-mover on the offense. 

[richard pallo]

Allen Fleener, Fleener Allen, Allen Fleener, Fleener Allen, Allen Fleener, Fleener Allen,  Seriously?  Certainly you jest.  It took TY three games to get going.  Second thoughts.  Really? 

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

 

 

[crazycolt1]

55 minutes ago, superrep1967 said:

 

I heard was at least that Fleener was having trouble learning the offense and Stanford Grad. 

He learned last game with 109 yards and a TD.

[shakedownstreet]

18 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He learned last game with 109 yards and a TD.

 

and a key drop on a crucial 3rd down

[BPindy]

24 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He learned last game with 109 yards and a TD.

 

He'll have a few of those games but so far, New Orleans is not impressed with him. Still having trouble with the playbook and is still dropping balls 

[HBA2]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

 

They both weren't worth their draft position but I still like Allen better than Fleener. Don't let Fleener's Monday night game fool you. He's notorious for racking up garbage time stats in blowout games that his team is trailing by multiple touchdowns. Also does most of his damage in 2 minute drills, facing soft coverages. Fleener is the guy that will get you 4 yards on a 3rd and 5. Don't miss him or his alligator arms one bit

[shakedownstreet]

fleener is what he is. he'll put up significant numbers, but have inexplicable drops 

[SilentHill]

Jack Doyle > Coby Fleener

[snkdy]

Fleener is going to put up great numbers with Brees but that doesn't surprise me. He's always been the better pass-catching TE. I guess it just depends on what you prioritize. Allen does need to step it up though.

[TKnight24]

Dwayne Allen goes for 100 Sunday 

[Malakai432]

I like Allen even though I peed on his dog.   He's good for the community but yeah he needs to step up big time.  I'll wait till the end of the year to pass judgment.  I wasn't a big fan of Fleener though and for as imposing as he should've been anyone could tackle him, he tackled himself a few times I'm sure of it.

 

Doyle is the man.

[Gyworks]

Remember the crybaby comments  of Fleener after he signed in NO? I'll never forgive him. I'd rather take a less productive but more versatile Allen any time.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 

So, is Matt Franciscovich trying to infer that all of those are bad plays by Fleener?  Because that is not really what it looked like, although I will admit that a video from a phone of a TV replay is not the most clear.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, shakedownstreet said:

 

and a key drop on a crucial 3rd down

This is true but so did Allen.

So far neither Allen or Fleener is nothing to write home about.

[Smoke317]

I personally like our tight end situation. We definitely made the right choice keeping Allen over Fleener. Although Fleener did surprise me once or twice last year with a couple big time catches, he's soft as charmin. And in football those soft players get exposed and usually at the worst time. I also think Doyle is outperforming Allen but I like keeping Allen as the starter. You never know how a guy will respond when being made into "the man". Some guys perform better as the underdog. Let's keep things just the way they are. But stop taking Doyle out on 3rd and short. If I had to depend on Allen or Doyle to make a key 3rd down catch I think I'd trust Doyle to get it done. 

[MSColtsFan]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

This is true but so did Allen.

So far neither Allen or Fleener is nothing to write home about.

 

I think that is the perfect point - neither is exceptional.  I'm in the Saints broadcast region, get all their games, and the "local" press.  And was in NOLA last weekend.  All of the press on Fleener is basically 'work in progress'.  From coach to QB to himself..  He is with the Saints what he was with the Colts.  So-so.  Lots of drops.  In bad situations too. I'm not sure I would have re-signed Allen, but I wouldn't have re-signed Fleener.  As others have said, look at what Doyle is doing.  Fleener isn't missed.  And I'm still seeing the same old thing with him in a different uniform. 

 

[braveheartcolt]

3 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Methinks we did NOT let the wrong guy go ... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000711833/article/coby-fleener-andre-johnson-among-struggling-pickups

 

"Tight end Coby Fleener's mistakes cost New Orleans in two close games. Even after a big fantasy performance on Monday night, Fleener is ranked No. 42 among 59 tight end qualifiers on Pro Football Focus."

 

 

How he plays with the Saints is irrelevant. Jerry Hughes is the opposite example. 

[throwing BBZ]

Allen IS a solid blocker #1.
At his current pace he would end up at about 45-50 catches  600 yds   12 yds a catch  5 td`s.
A solid contributor in a diverse offense IMO.  With his bad hips a plan to replace him (Swope?) is wise.
For this season, at $8.9M, Allen did get the FA bump. It happens.
 Let`s hope he stays healthy the next couple years and plays well. At $6m each of the next 2 years.
 That is very reasonable.
 

 Dallas Clark, in 11 seasons, had only 3 seasons of 500+ receiving yards and his top 4 TD seasons

were for 5, 11, 10, 6.
 And only 4 seasons where he caught 50 passes.
 This, in a very Pass Happy offense. Allen is doing just fine.
 
 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, TKnight24 said:

Dwayne Allen goes for 100 Sunday 

 

 

Dunno if this is his break out week . Jags seem to have been good against TE's through the first 3 games. Plus with the right side of the line so questionable , he might be called on to block a little more than the norm ?

[rockywoj]

17 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

How he plays with the Saints is irrelevant. Jerry Hughes is the opposite example. 

Actually I would say it is NOT irrelevant, for if he continues to have all the problems he has had and is having, and then fades into obscurity, the decision to move on is shown as justified.  I don't get the love for Fleener.  He usually had the dropsies, every bit or more than Allen, he constantly ran his routes short, and he'd usually drop to the ground immediately upon making a catch, whether touched or not.  To my eyes, despite his durability issues and his own occasional bout of the dropsies, Allen seemed like a by far more complete TE than Fleener.  I am committed to my belief that, contrary to what you believe, the Colts did NOT keep the wrong TE.  I am glad Fleener is no longer a Colt and imho he should never have been the Colts 2nd round pick back in 2012.  

[Bluefire4]

Dwayne Allen is better than Coby Fleener. Neither really deserved the money they got but it was market value.

[JPFolks]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I wasn't entirely upset that they kept him over Fleener because when healthy Allen is the better player. But I'm not getting the deal anymore. Are we paying him that much money just for his stats to be 3 rec., 35 yards, 1 TD? Jack Doyle is giving just as good production in terms of blocking and the red zone.  I'm not saying it's Allen because it's probably the system, but did we make a mistake resigning him?

I think Doyle is doing well, in part because they are focused on Allen when he's out there and Doyle can sneak up a bit.  If he keeps producing they will start game planning for him too,  I agree they should be heavily using the TEs on crossing routes, dump downs, red zone and vertically to keep the DBs guessing so TY and Dorsett can get open. 

[krunk]

We use both of our tight ends.  Some games coverage wise Doyle is going to be open more than Allen is. Previous to this year nobody would have even paid attention to Doyle in the passing game he was used so rarely.  I'm sure that is still the case in these first couple games, but in 2016 we are getting the ball his way.  There's going to be games where Duane Allen is targeted more and he'll get his.  Just like there are games when the coverage is focused on taking away Hilton.  When that happens you have to get the ball to somebody else.  I think this Jags game is a Dwayne Allen game so I expect he'll get his. 

[will426]

4 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

He's still dropping catches. We let the wrong guy go.....

 

So has fleener watch that atl vs no game he Costed them couple times even in a breakout game

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I wouldn't have been apposed to letting both Fleener and Allen go. Doyle is showing that he can be the main TE. But you can't keep taking pieces of the puzzle away expecting a better fit all the time. Keeping Allen over Fleener wasn't the issue. Fleener was just as bad in different areas than Allen. 

 

For example, I have never seen Fleener fight for a catch, OR for more yards. Fleener isn't a winner. He's a do what you can to get by kind of player. We see people like this all the time in life, the NFL is no different than life. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

Allen IS a solid blocker #1.
At his current pace he would end up at about 45-50 catches  600 yds   12 yds a catch  5 td`s.
A solid contributor in a diverse offense IMO.  With his bad hips a plan to replace him (Swope?) is wise.
For this season, at $8.9M, Allen did get the FA bump. It happens.
 Let`s hope he stays healthy the next couple years and plays well. At $6m each of the next 2 years.
 That is very reasonable.
 

 Dallas Clark, in 11 seasons, had only 3 seasons of 500+ receiving yards and his top 4 TD seasons

were for 5, 11, 10, 6.
 And only 4 seasons where he caught 50 passes.
 This, in a very Pass Happy offense. Allen is doing just fine.
 
 

You failed to mention that Clark was fantastic at making catches for first downs. He may not have made a lot of catches but he made them count. That is something Allen and Fleener have yet to get done.

[crazycolt1]

Right now Doyle has one of the highest catching percentages in the league at 86.7 percent.

Only time will tell but I think it is Doyle who will end up being the better of the two.

[lollygagger8]

Fleener personified: 

[crazycolt1]

5 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Fleener personified: 

If you are going to show this drop why not show the 80 TD that he caught? That is still the longest of Lucks career I believe.