Maybe Grigson built a better roster than people wanna credit him for

[DougDew]

You can't just break it down by position to try and masks the amount of needs. It may not be starters we need at every position, but we still need depth.

Group the positions as a whole since players are moved around in the pros. You should also use expiring contracts when assessing "need". There's more than 7.

Nah.  If you only built a roster with 1st and 2nd round draft choices, it would take 11 years to field the team most people want around here...then you'd have to resign half of them during that time since rookie contracts last only 3 to 5 years.

 

EVERY roster has to have some 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders start and play extensively.  The math prevents anything else.

 

So you have to assign value to positions, and C, G, ILB, and S get filled with those mid rounders...generally speaking.

 

And expecting mid rounders to play well ALL of the time is unrealistic..which is why you hope that guys like Manning/Harrision/ Freeney and Luck/TY/? can play up to their drafted position and re-signed FA contracts.

 

When the showy guys play well, an NFL team wins...when they don't, the NFL team loses.  How well all of the other guys play really doesn't matter.  They just need to avoid making mistakes.

[Ja'Crispy]

6 wins. Half against the AFC south. The roster is far from terrible. That award goes to the Redskins. But as I said in another topic a few days ago, we're going into Grigs 5th draft and every position except QB, TE, and WR are needs. Colts greatly benefit from playing in a division where they are still first in the division. Good win against a talented Broncos team though.

Not a terrible roster by any means, but not a great one either. No real superstars and a lack of depth. Talent wise we compare to the Dolphins or Chargers maybe.

That's the NFC East Division Leading Redskins to you, buddy. ;)

[tvturner]

I tend to agree but most of our early season problems rest squarely on the shoulders of the Golden Child Andrew Luck

Pep*

[SteelDragon]

I think Grigson does a pretty good job of managing the cap. I'm okay with him coming back if the team looks competitive in the playoffs.

We've got about 22 million under the cap for next season (so far) with Luck at 16.1 mil per. Soon we will have to pony up some more change for Luck.

I hope Grigson goes pass rusher, OL, LB in the draft. Maybe bring in Alex Mack and a CB in free agency

[BigQandTheManiac]

I still want Grigson gone. A few good games doesn't change my mind.

[BOTT]

That's the NFC East Division Leading Redskins to you, buddy. ;)

maybe the redskins have a better roster than people wanna give them credit for?

I'm sure that's a thread on the redskins forum today

[Defjamz26]

Nah. If you only built a roster with 1st and 2nd round draft choices, it would take 11 years to field the team most people want around here...then you'd have to resign half of them during that time since rookie contracts last only 3 to 5 years.

EVERY roster has to have some 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounders start and play extensively. The math prevents anything else.

So you have to assign value to positions, and C, G, ILB, and S get filled with those mid rounders...generally speaking.

And expecting mid rounders to play well ALL of the time is unrealistic..which is why you hope that guys like Manning/Harrision/ Freeney and Luck/TY/? can play up to their drafted position and re-signed FA contracts.

When the showy guys play well, an NFL team wins...when they don't, the NFL team loses. How well all of the other guys play really doesn't matter. They just need to avoid making mistakes.

I never said anything about the round players are picked in. All I said was that the team has very clear holes that you can't just cover up by saying we have a LT and LG. Offensive line is still a need. You can't say we have a starting NT and DT. Defensive line depth is still a need.

Good response I guess if I had said anything about position value lol.

[bababooey]

If we can't beat the Pats in the playoffs they both deserve to be gone

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

_{Anyone who thinks Grigson has done a good job in signing FA's, drafts or managing the cap misses the following FACTS:}

 

_{1.  In one year he has made the Colts the oldest team in the NFL.  So much for building any kind of sustainable core of SB caliber players}

_{2.  Our cap two years ago was among the top three in the NFL.  We are now down near the bottom.  Can you say Andre Johnson, Laron Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, ?}

_{3. Two of our last three number one draft choices include T-Rich & Bjorn Werner.} 

_{4.  Because he did not understand the real need to protect Luck, his last number one was a receiver.} 

_{Please, can we stop apologizing for or defending this inexperienced and clueless GM once and for all?  I hope we go all the way but I see us winning ugly all the way to the play-offs}

_{and then getting knocked out early.} 

[Coffeedrinker]

You can't just break it down by position to try and masks the amount of needs. It may not be starters we need at every position, but we still need depth.

Group the positions as a whole since players are moved around in the pros. You should also use expiring contracts when assessing "need". There's more than 7.

But saying teams still need depth and adding expiring contracts as needs is like saying water is wet and ice is cold.  All teams need that, that is why all teams participate in the draft, UDFA and free agency every year

 

I've been saying for a while that my two biggest complaints about Grigson are:

 

If the rumors are true and he dictates who plays on Sunday, that is not what a GM should do.  And he should not sign any former Eagle's players.  

 

Outside of that, he's actually done a solid job.

[DougDew]

I never said anything about the round players are picked in. All I said was that the team has very clear holes that you can't just cover up by saying we have a LT and LG. Offensive line is still a need. You can't say we have a starting NT and DT. Defensive line depth is still a need.

Good response I guess if I had said anything about position value lol.

But replacing our 3rd and 4th round G and C will have to come from another draft's 3rd and 4th round.  No guarantee the new guys will be any better than the current guys.  Geathers looks to be a good S, and he was drafted in like the 4th or 5th round.

 

I'm simply saying that the team has fewer holes than you are claiming, because the way the salary cap and draft work, every team has to have holes that "need" to be upgraded.  Its simply a matter of choosing where the holes will perennially be.

 

I want the playmaking showy guys to make the plays we are paying them to make...and more of them, then I do spending money or high round draft picks for a C who has to move about 5 yards at most.

 

If TRich was a 24 year old Frank Gore (a play making position) and Werner was a 24 year old 90% Robert Mathis (a playmaking position), we'd have playmakers soaking up those past 1st round draft choices and nobody would be complaining about the holes in the roster.  The lack of supreme talent at the other positions is normal.

 

As far as depth, it appears that Grigson spent his money wisely and signed the best backup QB in the league (a play making position) instead of spending money on a backup Gs or ILBs. 

[Jonathan24]

Just because they are on a winning streak you want to give Grigs credit but his short coming is what got luck hurt and more uncomfortable in the pocket in the first place.  Also when matt played we wasnt actually playing world beating teams.... J ville Houston Tampa and a downhill Atlanta team

[Chucklez]

No I'm glad we have Luck, but he hasn't been downright awful this year and has regressed big time.

Lucks QB rating with Pep as OC in 2015 - 78.24

Matts QB rating with Pep as OC in 2015 - 97.39

 

Averages at: 87.82

Lucks QB rating with Chud as OC in 2015 - 98.38

Matts QB rating with Chud as OC in 2015 -  92.65

 

Averages at: 95.52 (smaller sample size, but against much harder competition)

Uhm, yeah...

[TKnight24]

You don't go 4-0 with your back up QB with a horrible roster. Of course this roster still has holes, but maybe its not horrible like many thought it was.

It's a solid roster. Still need to get rid of the likes of people like

Greg "Throw at me for a completion" Toler

Bjoern Werner

Todd Herrmans

Lance Louis

Few others. But yeah, you don't go 4-0 with a backup without having talent around him

Denzelle Good had a solid game for a 7th rounder being thrown in the fire. Few mental lapses lead to the penalties but first game jitters. He'll be fine

[MTC]

I would like to credit Grigson, but I just think our opponents have shot themselves in the foot (especially Atlanta and TB with penalties and turnovers).

[bap1331]

I tend to agree but most of our early season problems rest squarely on the shoulders of the Golden Child Andrew Luck

No! It was all on the offensive line. Had they put in hasselbeck, hasselbeck would have been hurt.

[GoColts8818]

Just because they are on a winning streak you want to give Grigs credit but his short coming is what got luck hurt and more uncomfortable in the pocket in the first place. Also when matt played we wasnt actually playing world beating teams.... J ville Houston Tampa and a downhill Atlanta team

what got Luck hurt was a nasty hit when he ran, not because the line got him hit. What caused the injury was the torque put in his body from the way he got hit too, not a pillling up of hits either. Look, you can fairly point out that the line needs to be upgraded without trying to blame them for Luck's injury.

Also, I have been and will keep saying that no one is saying Grigson is perfect, they are just saying give credit for the things he got right too. People honestly sat here and said at the start of the year this was a 2 win team without Luck. Well they have now won four without him, twice as many as with him as matter of fact. So the idea that he's the only good player on this roster is clearly false.

While I agree Hasselbeck hasn't beaten the Pats, Bengals, or Broncos as the starter he did beat the Texans on the TD sick as a dog and don't look now but if the season ended today the Texans would be in the playoffs. Also, in this league having your backup QB be 4-0 is impressive no matter who it has come against. Short of Brock in Denver the others for the most part have been flat out awful this season.

So let's give Grigson a little credit at least for having some other players on this roster besides Luck. It might not be enough to save his job at the end of the season, even with the wins there are still enough problems you can fairly call for his job, but he's not this clueless GM who just got lucky with Luck as he was being called either.

[csmopar]

_{Anyone who thinks Grigson has done a good job in signing FA's, drafts or managing the cap misses the following FACTS:}

 

_{1.  In one year he has made the Colts the oldest team in the NFL.  So much for building any kind of sustainable core of SB caliber players}

_{2.  Our cap two years ago was among the top three in the NFL.  We are now down near the bottom.  Can you say Andre Johnson, Laron Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, ?}

_{3. Two of our last three number one draft choices include T-Rich & Bjorn Werner.} 

_{4.  Because he did not understand the real need to protect Luck, his last number one was a receiver.} 

_{Please, can we stop apologizing for or defending this inexperienced and clueless GM once and for all?  I hope we go all the way but I see us winning ugly all the way to the play-offs}

_{and then getting knocked out early.} 

First, let it be known I am not a fan of Grigson.  let me say it again, I am not a fan of Grigson.

 

However, I'll chime in on your points.

 

Point 1:  Agree 100%.  Though Lowry and Adams and Gore have done quite well.

 

Point 2: 2 of those will be off the books completely by next off season, if they are even still on it now.  AJ I think will get cut this season, and it looked like most of his money was guaranteed up front so it shouldn't hurt us next year.  Also,  the years we were top 3 in the league with salary cap, we had a ton of lower tier and rookie players on the cheap.  That doesn't continue forever.

 

Point 3: TRich really wasn't a draft pick but since we traded our number 1 for him, I'll give you that one.  Werner is just werner, can't defend.  Dorsett this year, at the time, I hated drafting a WR, however, with the AJ project a complete failure, this is looking more and more like a smart pickup.  Name me one polian pick since say, 2007 that is still playing in the league or better yet, name one that turned into a stud.....I'm drawing a complete blank there.....  No GM hits 100% of the time, especially a rookie GM.

 

Point 4: Completely agree with.  Especially when we had a round 1 projection fall to the 7th due to a police investigation for murder even though the police were saying all along that they had not deemed him a suspect.  Yeah it would have been a risk but for a 7th....Granted all other teams passed on him as well in the draft, how many 7th rounders currently play or even start in this league?  very few.  Grigs screwed the pooch on this one.  

 

Bottom line is, Grigs hasnt been great but he's not been terrible either.  While I am not a fan, I still have to give him credit for the ones he as hit on.  My question to you is this, who that may be available, do you think we should target and try to get as our GM that'll be an upgrade

[JPFolks]

Oh I agree it was way overblown, but I don't see how anybody can say that now. You just do not win the games the colts have won with a horrible roster. You just don't, I don't care who the back up qb is (which horrible grigson signed too BTW) I think these past 4 games have shown that the roster is not horrible.

Pump the brakes guys... we've had 1 quality win, (at home none the less).  If we beat Pittsburgh, then sure, you may have a point, but sadly I don't expect it to be close.  We beat Denver.  We've beaten a lot of terrible teams which finished among the worst in the league last year and in most cases will again this year.   We were competitive with Carolina which was probably our best performance of the season.  We got beaten by the Jets, Saints and Bills and heck, some of the worst teams in football have beaten those teams this year, but not us.  So until we finished 10-6 or beat a quality team on the road like Pittsburgh, we're simply the smartest kid in a dumb class.  We've had a lot of 2-3 point type wins and today we beat the team which finished with the worst record in the league last year.  There's a lot of parity,mostly due to injuries, this season.  We're still a long ways away from even making the playoffs unless we win the next two games.  I hope we do, but nothing suggests we have amazing talent.  No running game, a weak O-line all season, a bottom 5 defense, and we've given up more points than we've scored and scored less points than Houston with a myriad of backups cycling through there.  So it's wonderful to be optimistic, but I am not quite ready to credit Grigson with much of anything.  Instead, I think Pagano and his team have gotten the most out of what they have to work with.  

[RockThatBlue]

Pump the brakes guys... we've had 1 quality win, (at home none the less). If we beat Pittsburgh, then sure, you may have a point, but sadly I don't expect it to be close. We beat Denver. We've beaten a lot of terrible teams which finished among the worst in the league last year and in most cases will again this year. We were competitive with Carolina which was probably our best performance of the season. We got beaten by the Jets, Saints and Bills and heck, some of the worst teams in football have beaten those teams this year, but not us. So until we finished 10-6 or beat a quality team on the road like Pittsburgh, we're simply the smartest kid in a dumb class. We've had a lot of 2-3 point type wins and today we beat the team which finished with the worst record in the league last year. There's a lot of parity,mostly due to injuries, this season. We're still a long ways away from even making the playoffs unless we win the next two games. I hope we do, but nothing suggests we have amazing talent. No running game, a weak O-line all season, a bottom 5 defense, and we've given up more points than we've scored and scored less points than Houston with a myriad of backups cycling through there. So it's wonderful to be optimistic, but I am not quite ready to credit Grigson with much of anything. Instead, I think Pagano and his team have gotten the most out of what they have to work with.

Disagree. At Atlanta, at Houston, and Tampa (red hot team) are all quality wins. Houston has a winning record right now and Tampa won 4 out of 5 games or some such. Atlanta is obviously on a downward spiral, but we were practically dead in the water until late in the 3rd quarter and we pulled out a nice win in a game that we probably had no business winning. I think you can argue that all 3 were decent to quality wins.

[peytonmanning18]

No! It was all on the offensive line. Had they put in hasselbeck, hasselbeck would have been hurt.

Hasselbeck has been playing behind the same offensive line. Has he not? It's just Hasselbeck knows how to protect himself, Luck does not.

[Jonathan24]

what got Luck hurt was a nasty hit when he ran, not because the line got him hit. What caused the injury was the torque put in his body from the way he got hit too, not a pillling up of hits either. Look, you can fairly point out that the line needs to be upgraded without trying to blame them for Luck's injury.

Also, I have been and will keep saying that no one is saying Grigson is perfect, they are just saying give credit for the things he got right too. People honestly sat here and said at the start of the year this was a 2 win team without Luck. Well they have now won four without him, twice as many as with him as matter of fact. So the idea that he's the only good player on this roster is clearly false.

While I agree Hasselbeck hasn't beaten the Pats, Bengals, or Broncos as the starter he did beat the Texans on the TD sick as a dog and don't look now but if the season ended today the Texans would be in the playoffs. Also, in this league having your backup QB be 4-0 is impressive no matter who it has come against. Short of Brock in Denver the others for the most part have been flat out awful this season.

So let's give Grigson a little credit at least for having some other players on this roster besides Luck. It might not be enough to save his job at the end of the season, even with the wins there are still enough problems you can fairly call for his job, but he's not this clueless GM who just got lucky with Luck as he was being called either.

 

Not saying that Matt is not a good Backup QB but lets not all of a sudden say that Grigs is this great GM... One question that will never be answered is if Luck had a line he was comfortable behind would he have had to run on that hit that hurt him?

[Iancolts]

Lol yeah backup QB played 4-0 I love how Matt has stepped up. The 4-0 is against super bowl caliber teams too! Had we played better competition we would've lost. Grigson needs to go period. Grigson missed on three first rounders. He did good on later rounds but how do u miss so bad for years om first round talent?

[ColtRider]

We were blown out 45-7.  Somehow we beat Denver to get to the AFCCG.  Our preseason rating was always overrated, IMO.

 

2 quality starters out of this coming draft in positions of need will greatly enhance our roster.  I'm hoping pass rusher and CB. 

 

The oline seems to be okay if our QB can release the ball in less than 4 seconds.....

Add an extremely talented ILB to that list.

[GoColts8818]

Not saying that Matt is not a good Backup QB but lets not all of a sudden say that Grigs is this great GM... One question that will never be answered is if Luck had a line he was comfortable behind would he have had to run on that hit that hurt him?

no one is, they are just saying he's not a complete failure outside of drafting Luck which was the narrative at the start of the season.

Luck ran on that play because the WRs were not open and he saw a lane to get a first down. It had nothing to do with the line.

[Swan Ronson]

At least the argument has moved on from the insistence that the team couldn't win without Luck. Now the argument is the wins don't count cos they weren't against top teams.

Progress.

[Zoltan]

We were blown out 45-7.  Somehow we beat Denver to get to the AFCCG.  Our preseason rating was always overrated, IMO.

 

2 quality starters out of this coming draft in positions of need will greatly enhance our roster.  I'm hoping pass rusher and CB. 

 

The oline seems to be okay if our QB can release the ball in less than 4 seconds.....

We did draft a CB in the 3rd round i believe this last year that they seemed to really like he's just been on IR for most of the year.

[Superman]

You can't say we have a starting NT and DT. 

 

Why not?

[bababooey]

Lucks QB rating with Pep as OC in 2015 - 78.24

Matts QB rating with Pep as OC in 2015 - 97.39

 

Averages at: 87.82

Lucks QB rating with Chud as OC in 2015 - 98.38

Matts QB rating with Chud as OC in 2015 -  92.65

 

Averages at: 95.52 (smaller sample size, but against much harder competition)

Uhm, yeah...

Under pressure, he's actually regressing this year. This may have improved in the few games we played after his first few weeks off but early on he was dreadful. I'd post the link from Grantland but the website is shut down.

[aaron11]

I would like to credit Grigson, but I just think our opponents have shot themselves in the foot (especially Atlanta and TB with penalties and turnovers).

meh, it happens.  the entire league other than maybe 3 or 4 teams have been inconsistant and mostly mediocre. 

 

it's hard to get quality wins when there arn't many quality teams on the schedule

[James Harden]

I was really high on bringing AJ here. Thought he would be our #1 WR but that was a mistake. I really hated Grigs for drafting Dorsett with the 1st but with AJ not showing up in games, the Dorsett pick is becoming more pleasant to me. Grigs should have started building a super O-Line 2 years ago. Now 4 years in and still don't have a solid O-Line. I'm not sold on our current O-Line that is protecting Matt right now. It was our O-Line that got Luck injured in the first place. It was a major problem for us the past 4 years and he never address it. 

 

Grigson have some hits and misses in FA but I don't like his techniques in the Draft. I prefer leaning on Position of Need rather than BPA. Lets hope IF Grigs is still our GM for next season, he would use our 1st rounder to address either the D or O Line. I hope he draft a Franchise D player with our 1st round. Maybe trading up and drafting a Ray Lewis or Luke Keuchly within Jaylon Smith. 

[DougDew]

Pump the brakes guys... we've had 1 quality win, (at home none the less).  If we beat Pittsburgh, then sure, you may have a point, but sadly I don't expect it to be close.  We beat Denver.  We've beaten a lot of terrible teams which finished among the worst in the league last year and in most cases will again this year.   We were competitive with Carolina which was probably our best performance of the season.  We got beaten by the Jets, Saints and Bills and heck, some of the worst teams in football have beaten those teams this year, but not us.  So until we finished 10-6 or beat a quality team on the road like Pittsburgh, we're simply the smartest kid in a dumb class.  We've had a lot of 2-3 point type wins and today we beat the team which finished with the worst record in the league last year.  There's a lot of parity,mostly due to injuries, this season.  We're still a long ways away from even making the playoffs unless we win the next two games.  I hope we do, but nothing suggests we have amazing talent.  No running game, a weak O-line all season, a bottom 5 defense, and we've given up more points than we've scored and scored less points than Houston with a myriad of backups cycling through there.  So it's wonderful to be optimistic, but I am not quite ready to credit Grigson with much of anything.  Instead, I think Pagano and his team have gotten the most out of what they have to work with.  

Pump the brakes.  Nobody says we have amazing talent.  The message is that the talent is not bad, which is what the popular narrative has been the first half of the season.

 

People fail to see the immense power that a bunch of inept 3-and-outs and turnovers have towards losing games.

[DougDew]

Add an extremely talented ILB to that list.

With the exception of RB and TE, I'd draft all defense this spring.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

If we can't beat the Pats in the playoffs they both deserve to be gone

 

What if no one beats the Pats in the playoffs (again), should those other teams fire their GMs and HCs as well?

[ColtRider]

With the exception of RB and TE, I'd draft all defense this spring.

I'm 100% BPA. However, obtaining a mega-talented ILB by whatever means possible goes a long way in my book to kick start a great defense. To me, along with a great DE are keys to realizing that goal.

[James Harden]

I'm 100% BPA. However, obtaining a mega-talented ILB by whatever means possible goes a long way in my book to kick start a great defense. To me, along with a great DE are keys to realizing that goal.

When BPA and Positon of Need intertwines, it makes the choice a whole lot easier. I'm with you on drafting any D player with the 1st round.  

[rockywoj]

When BPA and Positon of Need intertwines, it makes the choice a whole lot easier. I'm with you on drafting any D player with the 1st round.  

Well, unless there's a stud OL prospect when the Colts are picking, that measures out as being a better BPA than any of the defensive players still available.  

[ColtRider]

When BPA and Positon of Need intertwines, it makes the choice a whole lot easier. I'm with you on drafting any D player with the 1st round.

Yeah. I understand. However, you can't pass up BPA. I know it's frustrating to fans at times, but overall, targeting players can get your team into hot water. If there's a ILB @ BPA, I'm taking him. It doesn't mean you cannot target players by other venues.

[DougDew]

When BPA and Positon of Need intertwines, it makes the choice a whole lot easier. I'm with you on drafting any D player with the 1st round.  

I'm hoping the intertwining results in a OLB/pass rusher in the 1st.

[#12.]

What has been the difference in the past three games? Does the O-line look better. No. The protection looks no better and they can't run the ball at all. Play calling. On offense, play calling is the difference.

The defense had a decent second half yesterday, but overall, during the three game stretch, they haven't looked great. They still have a major problem getting off the field on 3rd down. But they have gotten a few timely turnovers. On that side of the ball, that's the major difference. Without the pick six against Atlanta and the INTs vs. Denver, everything would currently look much different.

Special teams play is the other major difference. It's been a season of special teams blunders. They had one against Denver, but none the past two weeks.

Basically, it's just a Pepless version of the same team. It's not an elite team. It's not a championship caliber team... where you would hope they might be four years into this process. We're going into year five here. When the best that can be said is this team isn't as terrible as some might have thought... What does that even say? Congratulations, I guess. This is the year they were supposed to make a championship leap.