DeflateGate: Brady suspension expected (mega merge / updated)

[ricker182]

I don't think anyone should continue to interact with amfootball until she answers the single most important question that she has been asked repeatedly.  

 

amfootball - you are dodging the question.  

 

DO YOU believe that Tom Brady is guilty or innocent of the accusations?

[braveheartcolt]

Guys. She's playing you all. Stop it. Let it go.

[Gramz]

I don't think anyone should continue to interact with amfootball until she answers the single most important question that she has been asked repeatedly.  

 

amfootball - you are dodging the question.  

 

DO YOU believe that Tom Brady is guilty or innocent of the accusations?

Good luck with that.  I asked her 3 times.  No response.       amfootbull  ~  and no, I didn't mis-spell there.

[Superman]

I just realized something the texts the Wells report has are from OCT 2014 , This did'nt just happen for the first time ..

 

Has anyone else noticed that ?   half way thru the regular season when did it start ?

 

Patriot fans say you were blown out in the second half with inflated balls you never had a chance IMO , The Patriots did'nt belong in the playoffs in the first place .

 

If in Oct texts exist that prove deflation we can now see a pattern that cannot be denied .

 

First its no we did'nt , Then its well in the AFC you did'nt have a chance in the second half , to its been since atleast Oct .

 

How can onyone say the Integrity of the game was not harmed repeatedly ...

 

That's not the earliest mention. The one guy calls himself "the deflator" in a text as far back as May 2014. 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Good luck with that.  I asked her 3 times.  No response.       amfootbull  ~  and no, I didn't mis-spell there.

Which is why I reposted it - mostly for those of us still playing her game.

 

Everyone should ask the same question until it's answered.  

[dw49]

Its like a train wreck. I can't turn away. If Brady stuck a stick in someones ear, there would be a slant in which it was justified, improperly reported, or "not a big deal". Heck, even sane Pats fans are amazed at this stance. 

 

Where the heck is Snowglobe and Viriludent?

 

 

Virludent probably will never show his face again. It would be a blast to bring up his post again.

 

Included but not limited to ....

 

Totally explained by the Science , not nearly enough time to deflate balls in bathroom , most balls were just a touch or fraction under legal PSI , the Colts framed the Pats and it will come out in the report. On and on and on. 

[Gavin]

You seem to be back tracking a bit and good for you. But the reason for the 18 pages is a little bit the Pats are indeed hated but a lot because of posts like the one above.

 

You seem to be back tracking a bit and good for you. But the reason for the 18 pages is a little bit the Pats are indeed hated but a lot because of posts like the one above.

I have nothing to back track on I don't think, I said Brady and everyone else involved deserved punishment and they do because the rules are the rules, I also stated that had this been some other team this thread would not be as active as it has been...Which I think is a fair and accurate statement. I also said that the size of the footballs used in the AFC Championship game had no bearing on the outcome of the game...Again a fair and accurate statement in my opinion. I just don't see the problem with each team wanting to play with a ball to there specifications as long the ball is able to do what a football is designed to do(be carried, caught, fly through the air on kicks and passes)...Im not saying allow teams to make the ball like it a nerf ball size because then that would definitely be an advantage but if you watch running backs carry a football the ball is huge in most of there grasp when tucking it, To me its similar to the size of a new born baby just about

[21isSuperman]

That's cool, I wasn't pushing an agenda there. 

 

I've conceded that Brady more than likely lied and was involved. The question of how big of an advantage it really provided is an entirely different discussion. 

Yeah, I understand.  I wasn't trying to use it as proof of the Pats lying or anything like that

[LockeDown]

Guys. She's playing you all. Stop it. Let it go.

 

This ^.  

 

It doesn't matter what she thinks unless AM stands for Troy Vincent.   

[SteelCityColt]

This forum is my life!!!

 

 

I'm so lonely

It's ok... We've got each other

[dw49]

I have nothing to back track on I don't think, I said Brady and everyone else involved deserved punishment and they do because the rules are the rules, I also stated that had this been some other team this thread would not be as active as it has been...Which I think is a fair and accurate statement. I also said that the size of the footballs used in the AFC Championship game had no bearing on the outcome of the game...Again a fair and accurate statement in my opinion. I just don't see the problem with each team wanting to play with a ball to there specifications as long the ball is able to do what a football is designed to do(be carried, caught, fly through the air on kicks and passes)...Im not saying allow teams to make the ball like it a nerf ball size because then that would definitely be an advantage but if you watch running backs carry a football the ball is huge in most of there grasp when tucking it, To me its similar to the size of a new born baby just about

 

 

Some people will dance and prance rather than own up to a mistake . I can say that as I often just say I was wrong. Good example is when you pointed out that Easley had played a whole lot more than I state. I relied that you were right and added that it appeared that he was a better player than I gave him credit for.

 

That said , I read you first post as and read it to mean the same as everyone else that jumped all over you for it. You intern "back off a bit" and tried to change your original statement a bit as to it's meaning. I can read very well and can argue as well as the next guy. But I'll take the high road and just say OK ... I can't read well ... much like everyone else that reacted the same to your comments.

[19colt]

 

But my bet is that this goes back further than that, mainly because of those texts from around this time last year. 

 

Look at the Patriots fumble levels per carry compared to the rest of the NFL since 2006 when Brady lobbied for the rule change for away team footballs. It is a few pages back. 

[GoColts8818]

I missed that, Golic was very annoying about the whole thing though. I normally agree with him too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2445552

That's the link to the best of page which has the Hasselback interview in it if anyone wants to listen

[NFLfan]

That's really the problem I have with this. More than anything else. Out of anything else, when you are watching a football game, you want to be watching a game where everyone is on equal footing. I know people are going to try to cut corners, and to some extent, you expect that, even if you never really condone it. Guys hold, guys pass interfere. There are consequences for these things. So when you get caught, just throw your hands up and say, "yeah, I got caught, won't do it again." Be forthcoming, and sure as heck don't lie about it and cover it up. That's the worst thing you can do. You're compounding the infraction at that point into one that says, "I don't care about the rules, and I'll cheat as long as I can and do what it takes to keep it a secret." It's a blatant disregard for the integrity of your profession. I'm a lawyer, and integrity is something that any lawyer already has to deal with from behind the 8 ball. Because so many lawyers before me have cheated, lied, etc., I have to deal with their lack of integrity, even if I haven't ever done anything wrong myself. So for Tom, he's lost any credibility he might have had in my eyes. I never liked him, but it was oft centered around the fact that he just always seemed to have the Colts' numbers. So despite my not liking him, I was forced to at least respect him - he has earned that, or should have, I think from any Colts fan. But now he's tossed that out the window. He's a cheat and a liar. So anytime anyone ever talks about his legacy, that will awlays follow him around in my eyes.

Well said.

I hope you will be posting on a regular basis again. It seemed you have been away for awhile. Your posts are always well thought out. Hope to read some more.

[dgambill]

The advantages and disadvantages that result in those uneven playing fields you mention are usually things that aren't against the rules.  For example, one team's advantage might be having a more complex defensive system that the opposing offense can't figure out.  Another team's advantage might be having an elite QB.  I could go on, but those are all in accordance with the rules.  You're essentially saying it's ok that the Pats broke the rules because everyone does it.  First off, you don't have evidence that everyone does it.  Secondly, the rules are there for a reason.  If all teams were allowed to do something, it wouldn't be against the rules.  The rules are there for a reason and teams are prohibited from doing some thing for a reason.  I could go on, but I think you get the point

I get your point. I understand. As another player I wouldn't be happy...as I am certain NE wouldn't be happy if another team got to adjust the footballs after the officials checked them. Everyone knows it was wrong. The thing is I don't cry over spilled milk. Its over...its done. A bunch of I'm glad this is over/got caught etc is enough. I just don't get the 30 pages of trying to tear people down and attack their character and achievements over a mistake. I don't condone it and I believe they should and will get penalized for it. But the pitchforks and fire is a bit much. They were the best team all year. He has been the best qb of this generation. It was a black eye for sure but this had little effect on football games. Doesn't make it right...doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished...but guys he didn't murder someone...he didn't steal your lunch money...he didn't shove you in a locker in high school. I am happy we can all move on now.

 

i guess you missed when they were calling for the colts to lose picks and be punished on the field for irsays DUI.  under inflated balls bring a significant advantage on the field, and for that they should be punished.

I'm as big a Colts fan as any...and I was calling for us to lose a pick over Irsay. It could have been a terrible tragedy and it is a huge black eye for the league. The only way to get an owners attention is to take away picks...also people within the organization that can see the trouble and issues someone is suffering from will speak out if they know it will hurt the organization. I called for us to lose a pick....and on this one I'm not sure about a pick but I'm sure Tom will miss some games. Just missing that first game when he should be honored with his teammates for winning the SB will probably be enough.

[ReMeDy]

Look at the Patriots fumble levels per carry compared to the rest of the NFL since 2006 when Brady lobbied for the rule change for away team footballs. It is a few pages back. 

 

I forgot about that. Indeed, the deflated footballs have the most effect on the run game.

"In BenJarvus Green-Ellis' four years as a New England Patriot, he never fumbled the ball once. Now that he's a Cincinnati Bengal, the running back has had three fumbles in his last two games. So what has changed?"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1354195-benjarvus-green-ellis-with-3-fumbles-in-2-weeks-whats-changed

The article makes a case for why he fumbled more with the Bengals, but in light of deflate-gate, it seems increasingly evident the football itself is the reason, and if the Patriots were doing this for a while as denoted by the "deflator" text message, this would explain Benjarvus' lack of fumbles. According to Wikipedia, BenJarvus also has the "Longest streak of carries to start NFL career without a fumble (589)," broken only when he joined the Bengals. There's no way that is a coincidence.

[csmopar]

I forgot about that. Indeed, the deflated footballs have the most effect on the run game.

"In BenJarvus Green-Ellis' four years as a New England Patriot, he never fumbled the ball once. Now that he's a Cincinnati Bengal, the running back has had three fumbles in his last two games. So what has changed?"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1354195-benjarvus-green-ellis-with-3-fumbles-in-2-weeks-whats-changed

The article makes a case for why he fumbled more with the Bengals, but in light of deflate-gate, it seems increasingly evident the football itself is the reason, and if the Patriots were doing this for a while as denoted by the "deflator" text message, this would explain Benjarvus' lack of fumbles. According to Wikipedia, BenJarvus also has the "Longest streak of carries to start NFL career without a fumble (589)." There's no way this is all a coincidence.

Hmmm interesting

[ponyboy]

I just realized something the texts the Wells report has are from OCT 2014 , This did'nt just happen for the first time ..

 

Has anyone else noticed that ?   half way thru the regular season when did it start ?

 

Patriot fans say you were blown out in the second half with inflated balls you never had a chance IMO , The Patriots did'nt belong in the playoffs in the first place .

 

If in Oct texts exist that prove deflation we can now see a pattern that cannot be denied .

 

First its no we did'nt , Then its well in the AFC you did'nt have a chance in the second half , to its been since atleast Oct .

 

How can onyone say the Integrity of the game was not harmed repeatedly ...

 

It's been going on for years.  It helps to explain Brady's uncanny ability to perform well in bad weather.

[ricker182]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=2445552

That's the link to the best of page which has the Hasselback interview in it if anyone wants to listen

WOW!  

Golic comes off like and ignorant person.   

I don't ever listen to their show, because I think it's terrible banter, but what world does Golic live in?  

Most people already associate the Patriots with cheating.   

It's not going away.   

  

When people look back on the record books they'll say, "Yeah they won those Super Bowls, BUT..."   

  

But being the key word. Their accomplishments are mired.

[Clem-Dog]

They league was informed by Grigson the day before the game that he was concerned about the Pats air pressure. They never notified the Pats or had the balls gauged before kickoff. They waited an entire half to catch the Pats and in the process compromised the integrity of the title game. That is the part if I was a Colts fan, I would be really ripped about.

AM you are not making any sense here.

The league did not compromise the integrity of the game. Your deniability skills are certainly top-shelf indeed.

Whether you accept these facts or not doesn't even matter. This is not a moot debate. Without question the evidence is plenty damning. Just face it, when a deliberate act brings into question the legacy of an all-time great, you can safely deduce that the infraction committed was quite severe. Seriously, it's a slam-dunk. I hope you won't be too disappointed with the punishment, either way I like your loyalty. Unfortunately it won't matter.

[ricker182]

Now that I've read most of everything, It is very clear that had Brady admitted to this when the story broke, he would have been suspended for AT LEAST the Super Bowl.  

  

Now the NFL has to find a way to mirror what that suspension would have been and to be honest they won't. That'd be equal to suspending him 10+ games.  

  

I have a feeling we're all going to be disappointed and Brady Kraft and Belichick will get the last laugh.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I get your point. I understand. As another player I wouldn't be happy...as I am certain NE wouldn't be happy if another team got to adjust the footballs after the officials checked them. Everyone knows it was wrong. The thing is I don't cry over spilled milk. Its over...its done. A bunch of I'm glad this is over/got caught etc is enough. I just don't get the 30 pages of trying to tear people down and attack their character and achievements over a mistake. I don't condone it and I believe they should and will get penalized for it. But the pitchforks and fire is a bit much. They were the best team all year. He has been the best qb of this generation. It was a black eye for sure but this had little effect on football games. Doesn't make it right...doesn't mean he shouldn't be punished...but guys he didn't murder someone...he didn't steal your lunch money...he didn't shove you in a locker in high school. I am happy we can all move on now.

 

I'm as big a Colts fan as any...and I was calling for us to lose a pick over Irsay. It could have been a terrible tragedy and it is a huge black eye for the league. The only way to get an owners attention is to take away picks...also people within the organization that can see the trouble and issues someone is suffering from will speak out if they know it will hurt the organization. I called for us to lose a pick....and on this one I'm not sure about a pick but I'm sure Tom will miss some games. Just missing that first game when he should be honored with his teammates for winning the SB will probably be enough.

 

 

 

They were the best team all year.

 

 

Okay & they won the Superbowl I get it but , It is a big deal if they did it all year which that is very possible ,

 

Game after game then there cheating is how they were the best team . Do we reward cheating now ?

 

Can you say that this was fair to all teams involved ? Or only to the Patriots if its not fair for all then we have a serious problem millions are invested in the NFL & its players including endorsements .

[ColtsBlueFL]

They did NOT gauge before kick-off. They gauged pre-game and then lost track of the balls when they went out for the pre-game warm up with the players.

 

Wrong.  The gauged them 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  They stay in the Ref locker room until 10 minutes before kickoff.  The players Do_Not get to warm up with those game balls.  The 10 minute window is all one is supposed to get between them being under Ref Supervision and out on the playing field sidelines ready for game use. 

 

But I'm not sure when the Patriots took control of the games balls, yet.  Want to see it n the report.  They probably took control improperly as well, my gut tells me.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I saw that yesterday. Makes sense, except for the part that what the Falcons did was worse than what the Pats did. Tampering with balls >>> piping in noise

 

Would the Falcons still be worse if the Patriots had under inflated all season ?

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Cheating disqualifies.  Period.  I want to see the standard raised once again, not downgraded to the "everyone does it" standard.

 

In fact, it doesn't matter if the Patriots would have won without cheating.  They did.  At least one player and his accomplices did.  In a perfectly executed justice world, that title would be stripped but that won't happen.

 

Frankly, like Richard Nixon, it's all the more pathetic that Tom Brady felt the need to cheat.  It's just plain sick.  

[ricker182]

Cheating disqualifies.  Period.  I want to see the standard raised once again, not downgraded to the "everyone does it" standard.

 

In fact, it doesn't matter if the Patriots would have won without cheating.  They did.  At least one player and his accomplices did.  In a perfectly executed justice world, that title would be stripped but that won't happen.

 

Frankly, like Richard Nixon, it's all the more pathetic that Tom Brady felt the need to cheat.  It's just plain sick.  

That's what cheaters say.  

  

It's pathetic.  

 

Not everyone does it. I Guarantee you.  

[ColtRider]

Just finished watching Tom Brady on ESPN with Jim Gray interview at Salem State University about 50 miles from Foxboro.

The take I got was : Not once did he deny any wrongdoing. Not once did he state he was innocent. Not once did he tell the packed overwhelming pro-Brady fan base at Salem he was not involved. He stated he wants to wait for the "right venue".

To me, if a man is innocent, he's screaming at the top of his lungs to verify that to whom ever will listen. He had a huge chance to do that this evening and declined. That is not someone who claims to be innocent. Sorry, Pats fans. And I mean that sincerely and with sadness in my words here.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You are confusing two completely different facts and quoting it as if it were one and the same.  Have you even read the report?  How could Grigson notify the league before the game that the football intercepted by D'Qwell was underinflated if it hasn't happened yet?

Eddie Vedder says-  "I'm Spinning, oh, I'm spinning

 

 

{ provided for SW1 ...       skip to 2:32 for the goods...}

[Steamboat_Shaun]

DW, this whole thing back in Jan. and then the 4 ridiculous months ... and now with this report with more waffling language than Brian Williams is a joke ... a complete joke.

The whole thing reminds me of when George Brett had too much pine tar on his bat. Was it illegal? Sure. But was it the reason that he hit the ball 400' ?

I know I'm a Colts fan & I'm supposed to be basking in this, but I'm beyond over it.

[amfootball]

Just finished watching Tom Brady on ESPN with Jim Gray interview at Salem State University about 50 miles from Foxboro.

The take I got was : Not once did he deny any wrongdoing. Not once did he state he was innocent. Not once did he tell the packed overwhelming pro-Brady fan base at Salem he was not involved. He stated he wants to wait for the "right venue".

To me, if a man is innocent, he's screaming at the top of his lungs to verify that to whom ever will listen. He had a huge chance to do that this evening and declined. That is not someone who claims to be innocent. Sorry, Pats fans. And I mean that sincerely and with sadness in my words here.

He also said he was still digesting the report. He will talk once he has had a chance to review the whole 234 pages ...

[ReMeDy]

Cheating disqualifies.  Period.  I want to see the standard raised once again, not downgraded to the "everyone does it" standard.

 

Yea, I see a lot of Pats fans mention that, especially in regards to QB's liking their balls a certain way, but unlike all other QB's, two facts of the matter remain:

 

1.) FACT: One of the equipment personnel called himself "the deflator," and this text message was sent a long time before the Colts vs. Pats game occurred. Throwing that "deflator" title around means they were lowering PSI below the NFL limit, and were consciously aware of it, otherwise why would they be so giddy in their conversations about all this?

2.) FACT: Brady lied. He said he never knew one of the equipment personnel, and didn't even know what the man's responsibilities were! This is despite the guy working for New England the entirety of Tom Brady's career, and despite the fact Tom Brady is referenced in text messages and referenced having provided sports memorabilia as gifts.

Most QB's do not have someone called "the deflator," nor does the QB lie when confronted about it. Tom Brady is unique, and unless another QB is proven otherwise, Tom Brady is a special case with no comparison.

[amfootball]

The whole thing reminds me of when George Brett had too much pine tar on his bat. Was it illegal? Sure. But was it the reason that he hit the ball 400' ?

I know I'm a Colts fan & I'm supposed to be basking in this, but I'm beyond over it.

Me too. Punish Brady if necessary. I get it. But ball deflation? yeah. very over it.

[amfootball]

Cheating disqualifies.  Period.  I want to see the standard raised once again, not downgraded to the "everyone does it" standard.

 

In fact, it doesn't matter if the Patriots would have won without cheating.  They did.  At least one player and his accomplices did.  In a perfectly executed justice world, that title would be stripped but that won't happen.

 

Frankly, like Richard Nixon, it's all the more pathetic that Tom Brady felt the need to cheat.  It's just plain sick.  

lol. Where was your outrage over Seattle last year when they won having multiple players suspended for PEDs and holding illegal practices?

[OffensivelyPC]

Well said.

I hope you will be posting on a regular basis again. It seemed you have been away for awhile. Your posts are always well thought out. Hope to read some more.

The baby has been keeping me busy and I really missed following the draft and free agency.  I almost enjoy that more than the regular season...almost...I still show up from time to time, but just checking up on you guys to make sure the hooliganism isn't out of control

[amfootball]

I just realized something the texts the Wells report has are from OCT 2014 , This did'nt just happen for the first time ..

 

Has anyone else noticed that ?   half way thru the regular season when did it start ?

 

Patriot fans say you were blown out in the second half with inflated balls you never had a chance IMO , The Patriots did'nt belong in the playoffs in the first place .

 

If in Oct texts exist that prove deflation we can now see a pattern that cannot be denied .

 

First its no we did'nt , Then its well in the AFC you did'nt have a chance in the second half , to its been since atleast Oct .

 

How can onyone say the Integrity of the game was not harmed repeatedly ...

The October game was vs the Jets and it was after the game that Brady was complaining that the refs blew the balls up to 16 psi well above the limit. But the "report" never got an explanation from the ref doing that game as to why that happened.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

lol. Where was your outrage over Seattle last year when they won having multiple players suspended for PEDs and holding illegal practices?

Irrelevant.  First, I wasn't aware of it so I didn't comment on it.  Had I, nothing would change.  

 

Cheating is cheating.  There are varying levels of impact of cheating, thus there will be varying levels of punishment.

 

You still haven't answered:

 

Do you believe Tom Brady is innocent or guilty of this?

[AndreRison]

Sports radio is littered, since the report came out, with hosts totally down playing this whole thing. A lot are saying it's all sour grapes, or this is no more than a minor infraction.

What these media types are purposely overlooking is the conspiracy before and after the fact to cover up cheating. On top of that; Tom lies to his coach, allegedly. Tom lies to the public, fact. Tom lies to the Wells investigators, fact. Tom lies to the Commish, fact.

We can all sit and act like deflating football's to the tune of, lowest fumble rate in the history of the NFL for 9 seasons, is nothing more than adding pine tar to your bat. That would be denial. I refuse to be in denial. This is huge. This is one of the biggest scandals the league has ever found evidence for.

In conclusion, if people think Tom is playing in the regular season game against the Colts, they will be surprised by the hammer that's about to fall.

[jvan1973]

Me too. Punish Brady if necessary. I get it. But ball deflation? yeah. very over it.

you can only blame the team you root for. They brought it on themselves.... again

[OffensivelyPC]

lol. Where was your outrage over Seattle last year when they won having multiple players suspended for PEDs and holding illegal practices?

Umm, they still catch flak for that.  All you have to do is go to any major sports website's game day chat room for any seahawks playoff game.  And that one clown that traversed these forums was reminded of it plenty when he clowned around in here too.

[Btown_Colt]

Yea, he also said they earned and achieved everything they got this year as a team...and he is very proud of it. What a disgrace. They didn't earn anything. They cheated...