PFT: Multiple Colts players upset with Dorsett selection

[NewEra]

Can't knock him on his size. Our last great was 6'-185 and ran a 4.38. Dorsett will go as far as Dorsett puts into it. It sounds like he wants to be great and he had the attitude and play style. The sky's the limits. And I was scratching my head on Friday wondering why we picked him also.

[esmort]

So.......you're holding it against him because 2 particular picks turned out bad?  That's not right, not unless you take into account all his picks, if you do, that number is probably 180 in the other direction.  

 

Second, I don't consider TRich a draft pick, yeah he gave up a 1st in trade, but at the time, EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE thought that was a steal and he would be a superstar.....But it didn't work out.  I dont think anyone outside of the Browns FO saw that coming.

 

 

No "EVERYONE" didn't think that .... I for one hated the trade from the time it was announced, and I know there were several other posters who also didn't like the trade.  Many people saw that train wreck coming.

[Superfly Jay]

Dorsett was the bpa on his board, so he took him. You can never have enough weapons. Lets say TY, or AJ gets injured next season. And speaking on TY, he might look to skip town after next season anyway. The pick has catch 22 written all over it, but thats the risk Grigson is willing to take.

[PrincetonTiger]

one less roster spot

Apples to Oranges

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

It is what it is at this point. I would have gone a different direction, but at this point welcome him and get to work! If he is as good as the brass thinks most will get over it pretty quickly!! 

[Lawrence Owen]

What Michael Silver said he thought, and what he did when he heard the colts got Dorsett.:

"Late Thursday night, Grigson chose Miami wide receiver Phillip Dorsett with the 29th overall selection, provoking an immediate chorus of ridicule and dissent on social media, blogs and other platforms. Critics complained that the swift, diminutive Dorsett merely gave the Colts a second helping of T.Y.Hilton, their leading receiver from 2014, and that the pick had done nothing to shore up Indy's biggest weaknesses, such as a defensive unit that surrendered 45 points to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game.

 

Since I tend to be a strong advocate of Grigson's body of work, I started texting some of the talent evaluators around the league I respect most to solicit their opinions, and also asked some people in the Jags' war room(where I was at the time).

The replies I got were overwhelmingly positive about the pick: "Grand slam!!!" was one scout's response.

I also texted Colts owner Jim Irsay, the man whose opinion of Grigson's pick will ultimately matter most. Granted, Irsay wasn't likely to express displeasure in the wake of the selection, but he could easily have chosen not to reply, or to say something generic and let the situation play out for itself.

Instead, he sent a voice memo, which I received well after midnight, after getting off the phone with the NFL's after-hours travel department to book a flight to St. Louis.The message lasted more than a minute, and the excitement in Irsay's voice was palpable and infectious. He said a lot of glowing things about Dorsett, and he insisted that the pick had been an easy one. Seven words in particular stayed with me."        "We let the board talk to us."

[A-A-Rom]

Stop hating on Dorsett and get your game up

[Defjamz26]

I think some people are missing the point by signaling in on Collins. I think most are okay that he passed on Collins. But the fact that he passed on Brown and Goldman is worse.

In a few of my mocks I had us getting Geathers late anyway. But regardless of how high up Dorsett was, I think it was short sighted to take him over Goldman and Brown.

A player like Dorsett won't completely transform the Colts because we have a player like him already. But a guy like Goldman would have taken this team to another level.

[BluHorzhu]

Many a short-sighted fool has mastered the art of the knee-jerk reaction.

 

 

                                               

[ColtsLegacy]

I think some people are missing the point by signaling in on Collins. I think most are okay that he passed on Collins. But the fact that he passed on Brown and Goldman is worse.

In a few of my mocks I had us getting Geathers late anyway. But regardless of how high up Dorsett was, I think it was short sighted to take him over Goldman and Brown.

A player like Dorsett won't completely transform the Colts because we have a player like him already. But a guy like Goldman would have taken this team to another level.

Drafting Dorsett, the Colts apparent BPA by a good margin, was the opposite of short sighted. Drafting a lesser quality player because he is in a bigger "need" position is, in fact, short sighted.

[RockThatBlue]

They should all be upset.. same with all colts fans.. they(team member) should be very upset thats colts spent a 1st round pick on a sub 6 foot kick returner.. everyone should be embarrassed.. best part was when we traded down in the second.. hilarious

Good thing he wasn't drafted just for being a kick and punt returner.

[oldunclemark]

You said it 100% correct. Any OTHER team. Not a team who didn't need him.

 

 

But this boy is a good player......you always need weapons..

 

We drafted well

[Superman]

What Michael Silver said he thought, and what he did when he heard the colts got Dorsett.:

"Late Thursday night, Grigson chose Miami wide receiver Phillip Dorsett with the 29th overall selection, provoking an immediate chorus of ridicule and dissent on social media, blogs and other platforms. Critics complained that the swift, diminutive Dorsett merely gave the Colts a second helping of T.Y.Hilton, their leading receiver from 2014, and that the pick had done nothing to shore up Indy's biggest weaknesses, such as a defensive unit that surrendered 45 points to the Patriots in the AFC Championship game.

 

Since I tend to be a strong advocate of Grigson's body of work, I started texting some of the talent evaluators around the league I respect most to solicit their opinions, and also asked some people in the Jags' war room(where I was at the time).

The replies I got were overwhelmingly positive about the pick: "Grand slam!!!" was one scout's response.

I also texted Colts owner Jim Irsay, the man whose opinion of Grigson's pick will ultimately matter most. Granted, Irsay wasn't likely to express displeasure in the wake of the selection, but he could easily have chosen not to reply, or to say something generic and let the situation play out for itself.

Instead, he sent a voice memo, which I received well after midnight, after getting off the phone with the NFL's after-hours travel department to book a flight to St. Louis.The message lasted more than a minute, and the excitement in Irsay's voice was palpable and infectious. He said a lot of glowing things about Dorsett, and he insisted that the pick had been an easy one. Seven words in particular stayed with me."        "We let the board talk to us."

 

This is good stuff. I need a link, though.

[dw49]

I think some people are missing the point by signaling in on Collins. I think most are okay that he passed on Collins. But the fact that he passed on Brown and Goldman is worse.

In a few of my mocks I had us getting Geathers late anyway. But regardless of how high up Dorsett was, I think it was short sighted to take him over Goldman and Brown.

A player like Dorsett won't completely transform the Colts because we have a player like him already. But a guy like Goldman would have taken this team to another level.

 

 

Pretty strong statement there. What are your credentials if you don't mind me asking.

[NewEra]

I think he'll be much better than TY.

[Lawrence Owen]

This is good stuff. I need a link, though.

He said alot in this article, what i had quoted was the bottom part of it.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap3000000490845/article/my-2015-nfl-draft-war-room-adventures-different-yet-the-same

[dw49]

That doesn't matter. Your first pick should be BPA by NEED. Everyone did it but the

Redskins got RG3 much needed protection

got who they hope is Wilfork's replacement

Rams got a dynamic RB to help take the stress off Foles

Jags added someone who could give Luck headaches

Etc Etc

 

 

Gosh .. I thought the Pats picked by need last year when they drafted a DT named Easley to take over when Wilfork was gone.Everyone thought this was a bog over draft and no doubt a need rather than a "board" pick. Perfect that it was pick 1.29 and the guy played a handful of plays and now they draft another DT because that one stunk. So how about you give us something that makes a little more sense ?

[rock8591]

Articles like this is what makes me believe we should not have freedom of speech in this country.

 

Media lies - no consequences.

[Dustin]

Articles like this is what makes me believe we should not have freedom of speech in this country.

Media lies - no consequences.

whew

[deedub75]

We'll continue to win the regular season and lose the playoffs.  

[bjiven]

Colts will now enter and win this year's Super Bowl!! I don't see how anyone can stop this offense now, way better than last year's. The defense and line are better as well. BET

[scooter4910]

We'll continue to win the regular season and lose the playoffs.  

That's heresy....Dorsett is the 2nd coming of Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison......combined!!!

[jimmy g]

"no im just a conspiracy theorist haha"

That should probably be your cue to stopping debating with CR91.......some people just should not be argued with, I think conspiracy theorists are among those people

I can be a conspiracy theorist, when there are credible clues to add up into a believable conspiracy. I don't see any of those surfacing here....

[Lawrence Owen]

That's heresy....Dorsett is the 2nd coming of Jerry Rice, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison......combined!!!

 

LOL sarcastic much?

 

If Dorsett just takes the double teams off T.Y. and makes defenses play straight up with our offense, id be happy. 

 

oh and just to put stats on the board:

 

                           2014 totals for each player

 

                             tot      solo   asst     sack

Malcom brown :     69       38     31       6.5

Henry Anderson:   66       40     26      8.5

 

And we got Anderson in the 3rd round.....................

[Defjamz26]

Drafting Dorsett, the Colts apparent BPA by a good margin, was the opposite of short sighted. Drafting a lesser quality player because he is in a bigger "need" position is, in fact, short sighted.

Drafting BPA can be short sighted if you don't look at all the circumstances.

Sure Dorsett is great and might be able to beat alot of CBs, but how does he help stop the Patriots from scoring 40 points when they run all over you and control the clock?

That has to be a top priority because the road to the Superbowl will go through New England.

Now before you say "What about the offense" remember that scoring 20 points doesn't look as bad when the other team only scores 28 or 30. However, when you can stop the opponent from having the ball for 37 minutes, you can score more than 20 points.

[zibby43]

The "reasons" were Malcolm Brown doesn't "fit" our scheme

Gregory as we know has the "character" issues and Grigson made it clear he wasn't drafting character issue guys in the first

Don't understand why Landon Collins wasn't drafted after Grigson drooled over him

It's no logical explanation as to why we took a WR other than Grigson STINKS with 1st rounders

 

If you'd like to know why Collins wasn't taken, I can break it down for you.

 

Collins is almost exclusively an "in-the-box" safety.  His coverage skills are questionable.

 

The Colts' 3-4 likes to use "interchangeable" safeties so that we can more easily confuse opposing offenses/QBs.  When the QB doesn't know who the FS/SS is, it can affect his play calling and setting of protections. 

 

When your similarly-skilled safeties are constantly moving around, it makes it harder for the QBs to ascertain whether they have a "bodies" advantage in the running game.  It can confuse a QB when it comes to making pre-snap passing reads.

 

3-4 defenses are all about creating pre-snap confusion.  When you can work your safeties into this approach, it only helps the defense's pre-snap advantage.

 

BUT, in order to implement this approach, BOTH safeties have to be good in the running game AND good in coverage.  You need have two guys that are capable of playing FS/SS.

 

Landry did NOT fit this scheme.  That is why he is gone now.  He was dreadful in pass-protection.  He was put in positions where he had to play FS and he got exposed.  Pure and simple.  Collins would have been similarly exposed in this scheme. 

 

Some defenses, particularly 4-3, non-Cover 2 defenses, do not need those interchangeable safeties.  They like to use the SS as an extra run stuffer. 

 

The Giants are a perfect fit for Collins.  The Colts were NOT.

 

For people that have played/coached the game at a high level (beyond HS), this is pretty basic football stuff.  For the casual fan, this kind of analysis may not be readily apparent.

 

Hopefully this post was helpful to you.  My apologies for the length. 

[zibby43]

Sure Dorsett is great and might be able to beat alot of CBs, but how does he help stop the Patriots from scoring 40 points when they run all over you and control the clock?

 

 

If the other team is scoring at will, you cannot afford to play ball-control/keep-away with the running game. 

Unless that team is just trying to run the clock to get out of there with a L.

 

When Manning was breaking TD records with the Colts, every offense in our Division was trying to play keep away with the running game.  Eventually, they got down so much that they had to abandon the run.

 

That's when we turned Freeney and Mathis loose. 

[ColtsLegacy]

Drafting BPA can be short sighted if you don't look at all the circumstances.

Sure Dorsett is great and might be able to beat alot of CBs, but how does he help stop the Patriots from scoring 40 points when they run all over you and control the clock?

That has to be a top priority because the road to the Superbowl will go through New England.

Now before you say "What about the offense" remember that scoring 20 points doesn't look as bad when the other team only scores 28 or 30. However, when you can stop the opponent from having the ball for 37 minutes, you can score more than 20 points.

 

Again drafting a player, who is viewed in the organization as much lesser quality than other available players, in order to try and stop one team this year is the epitome of short sightedness. The Colts drafted the guy who they believe will be the best player and help the team for years to come =/= short sighted.

[chad72]

Again drafting a player (who is viewed in the organization as much lesser quality than other available players) to try and stop one team this year is the epitome of short sightedness. The Colts drafted the guy who they believe will be the best player and help the team for years to come =/= short sighted.

 

 

When Ozzie picks up Perriman at 26 (after losing Torrey Smith and Jacoby Jones), then Maxx Williams (after losing Owen Daniels and Pitta coming off IR), and then Carl Davis (after losing Ngata), how can we defend Ozzie as purely going BPA? It is too co-incidental for me, looks like BPA for position of need, even if it is half a round away.

 

By no means am I going to overreact and say Grigson does not care about winning like others have insinuated without much thought. But the thought process given Grigson's history of drafting a T.Y. and Moncrief in rounds 3 led me to believe he was capable of finding good wide outs later as well made the Dorsett pick a puzzling one to say the least. Plus, drafing a nickel CB at best that won't start was puzzling as well with the next pick.

[Defjamz26]

Again drafting a player, who is viewed in the organization as much lesser quality than other available players, in order to try and stop one team this year is the epitome of short sightedness. The Colts drafted the guy who they believe will be the best player and help the team for years to come =/= short sighted.

He might have been the highest rated player on the board now, but he might not be the difference maker the team needs down the road.

He might have been the highest rated player at the time of the pick but down the line I think someone else would have been the better pick.

I get why they picked him, I just don't think they should've. They jumped the gun and got giddy at the idea of getting someone with 4.2 speed. The speed won't even matter on game day when he's matched up against 4.3 CBs.

[chrisfarley]

The Patriots use Bill Bellichick as their GM and Head Coach.  He makes all the calls at the draft, takes on all the responsibilities of the General Manager, does pretty darn good with draft picks and Free Agency, and gets to Super Bowls and wins Super Bowls a lot.  If we would strategize a bit like BB, concentrate on defense more like BB, still keep material offensive pieces in place like the Peyton Mannings and Andrew Lucks and some other offensive weapons, build a decent to very good offensive line, we would be so much more successful IMO.  I think BB's blueprint has been pretty clearly drawn over the years.  When the Colts draft and approach FA like they have to have 30 Wide Receivers, it is total lunacy. The defense cannot be patched with Bondo Filler, it takes time to build through the draft.  I stated before that I think the decision to draft Dorsett will cause animosity toward management.  I think Pagano would have gone the defensive route this year and with some of the previous Grigson draft decisions.  Do you think BB would let Grigson override his desire to build his defense, HN!

[Toe Toed Sloth]

This was a deep WR draft, could've easily gotten someone late. Dude is 5'9, what 5'9 WR goes first round?

Grigson just stinks with 1st round picks, it's that simple

Aside from Luck, what first round pick have we had since Grigson showed up that has lived up to a first round talent?

 

You don't like the pick. WE GET IT. No need to throw a tantrum over it.

 

5'9, like TY Hilton? He's clearly not a good WR. Antonio Brown is 5'10 but I guess he is chump change as well. Give me a break. Go watch the kid play. He has constant separation, elite top speed and acceleration while maintaining excellent control over his body. And he has amazing hands. He had a horrible QB throwing to him and still managed to make tons of adjustments to make plays. 

 

Clearly he was the top player on their board when they selected. That's BPA. Sometimes it looks *ic and sometimes it works out great. Packer's fans thought drafting Aaron Rodgers was stupid at the time because they had Favre leading a contender. 

 

Also, Grigs has had 3 1st round picks: Luck, Werner, and now Dorsett. If you want to call Trich a draft pick, so be it. Keep in mind that most armchair generals thought it was a great trade at the time. If you can still look at this 3 years from now and it didn't pan out then ok sure, but maybe you should see the team and the player play before jumping to conclusions. I'll add that Grigson has also been masterful at managing our cap space and at bringing in promising prospects on the cheap. 

[basspapaw]

Anyone who is taken in the first round creates ONE LESS ROSTER SPOT!!

 

HELLO?!?!

 

Remember when I called you "argumentative"......    this is what I'm talking about!

 

You're talking nonsense and trying to hide behind "a difference of opinion...."

 

Give it up!     Punt!     Live to debate another day,  because you're dying here....     and for what?!?

Can you not make a post without calling someone names?

[NewColtsFan]

Can you not make a post without calling someone names?

 

Seriously?

 

You're coming to someone's defense because I called them "argumentative".....?

 

Just curious.....   but did you even bother to read the thread?

 

Because if you did and you're still trying to come to the poster's defense about being "argumentative" then I don't know what to tell you....

 

Because that kind of comment is tossed out on this website plenty....  and not just by me...

[ColtsLegacy]

You don't like the pick. WE GET IT. No need to throw a tantrum over it.

 

I think I now know what the "T" in "TKnight24" stands for.

[coltsfanatic24]

I agree, Dorsett was a luxury pick. Hilton, Johnson, Moncrief, Fleener, and Allen was more then enough weapons for Luck. The team needed defense. Goldman, Brown, Collins, or Gregory would have provided more value. 

[ColtsLegacy]

I agree, Dorsett was a luxury pick. Hilton, Johnson, Moncrief, Fleener, and Allen was more then enough weapons for Luck. The team needed defense. Goldman, Brown, Collins, or Gregory would have provided more value.

There's really no way you could say that with any certainty. Sure those guys address the immediate need positions but how much value any of them would provide the team in the long run is anyone's guess and according to the front office, Dorsett will be the most valuable in the long run. That's why they chose him.

[coltsfanatic24]

They drafted Werner and traded for Richardson and were wrong about them. With the exception of Luck which was Irsay's decision, Grigson hasn't been good drafting in the 1st round. I'm no scout but when you have so many needs defensively like the Colts do, you draft the best available defensive player. Goldman and Collins would have made a impact on this team.

 

There's really no way you could say that with any certainty. Sure those guys address the immediate need positions but how much value any of them would provide the team in the long run is anyone's guess and according to the front office, Dorsett will be the most valuable in the long run. That's why they chose him.

[Stephen]

I have to disagree there. I believe Henry Anderson was our best, most immediate help on defense. picked in third round.

I think smith will help out a lot to. The guy is a beast at corner.

[SteelCityColt]

whats the point of a conversation if you dont look at other options to an opinion. popular opinion is boring and lacks controversy