Why was the media so wrong?

[oldunclemark]

 

Nationally, everyone thought coach Chuck and maybe Ryan Grigson would not be retained.

That;s understandable because no national media focuses on us the way they focus on the NY teams, Dallas, the NFC and AFC East etc.

Even on the Friday before he was retained, there was a national 'insider' who said Pagano was definetly out.

But again, small market, lack of sources.....guessing....most said the San Diego coach was out, too

 

But knowing how unpredictable Jim Irsay is..why did so many say and accept that the coach was out  before any decision was made.

Your thoughts?

 

 

[lennymoore24]

I think it is the same reason why things spread in here.  Like one person will say "Castonzo should be a right tackle" and then everyone says that like it is the gospel. I think someone in the media thought he was going to get fired, and everyone jumped on it and repeated it enough where everyone believed it true.  But firing Pagano never really made no sense if you consider the alternative.

[cmgww]

Even JMV, who has some pretty good sources, was wrong. He called the Manning release about a month before anyone else, so I tend to put my stock in him. First, he's a local, and secondly he has been more right than wrong in the past. He isn't he type to throw outlandish stuff out there just to get people riled up. I think the biggest thing was Sean Payton not working out. Had he agreed to come we might have seen a much different outcome. When he didn't, Irsay knew that there really weren't any other viable candidates that fit what he wanted...namely a HC (as opposed to an OC/DC like Gase. I also think he listened to the players. Luck himself said publicly he didn't want to go through another coaching change (in so many words), so who knew what he said behind closed doors? 

[GoColts8818]

I think the plan was to release Pagano.  The situation changed based on the support of the players, not willing to pay the asking price for Payton, and the meeting with Pagano.  

[ColtRider]

To Jim Irsay's credit and due diligence, he arrowed the target and hit it's mark yesterday with incredible negotiations between all three of them. Whatever went array has now been rectified to a much more aligned shift of weight. That's obvious. I truly thought that multiple personnel would be gone. Glad I was wrong. That would've been a waste of 4 years hard work.

 

Concentrating on making this team much more formidable was started today by releasing the DC. Building a great defense is priority one to achieve "The Monster" we all have anticipated. Let's see what else can be accomplished between now and next season. 

 

The course & direction of this team has been changed in the last 2 days. Keep it up, Indy! Before long, we'll remember the 2015-16 season as a great awakening & catapult to Champions.

[Shive]

Sports media these days is less about reporting things that have happened and more about trying to be the first to release a story. Usually this is by fabricating a story loosely pieced together by a number of rumors other reporters have put out trying to be the first to a story as well.

 

Also about getting hits on your stories, so you consistently get the "shock pieces".

[rock8591]

That's the downside of free speech; anyone can say anything, even made up without consequences. And if they know it's completely made up, they'll point to an obscure source. e.g. "sources close to the organization say that..."

 

No way to prove or disprove a theory if that's the way it is.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think the plan was to release Pagano.  The situation changed based on the support of the players, not willing to pay the asking price for Payton, and the meeting with Pagano.  

I have heard mixed media reports on if Irsay contacted Payton or his agent so I have no clue to the truth in any media reports. I could be as simple as Irsay give it some thought and realized a lot of the Colts problems were not at the feet of Pagano. Irsay couldn't help seeing the fight in Chuck and the fight in the players who play for him. Irsay also heard majority fan thoughts on Chuck. As far as Grigson, with his first three seasons and a GM of the year it might be worth the gamble to stay with him. Even if there was a riff between Chuck and Ryan Irsay made it clear on what is expected. I am not too sure how much of a riff there was but as always, media either blows it out of context or just out and out lies. That much Is apparent.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, rock8591 said:

That's the downside of free speech; anyone can say anything, even made up without consequences. And if they know it's completely made up, they'll point to an obscure source. e.g. "sources close to the organization say that..."

 

No way to prove or disprove a theory if that's the way it is.

Good point. The media has become a joke. Not in a funny kind of way either.

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have heard mixed media reports on if Irsay contacted Payton or his agent so I have no clue to the truth in any media reports. I could be as simple as Irsay give it some thought and realized a lot of the Colts problems were not at the feet of Pagano. Irsay couldn't help seeing the fight in Chuck and the fight in the players who play for him. Irsay also heard majority fan thoughts on Chuck. As far as Grigson, with his first three seasons and a GM of the year it might be worth the gamble to stay with him. Even if there was a riff between Chuck and Ryan Irsay made it clear on what is expected. I am not too sure how much of a riff there was but as always, media either blows it out of context or just out and out lies. That much Is apparent.

 

I don't know why you think this is apparent at all.     

 

It could be just as simple as Irsay had a change of heart and mind.     I think that's far more likely than "the media lies..."

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

 

Nationally, everyone thought coach Chuck and maybe Ryan Grigson would not be retained.

That;s understandable because no national media focuses on us the way they focus on the NY teams, Dallas, the NFC and AFC East etc.

Even on the Friday before he was retained, there was a national 'insider' who said Pagano was definetly out.

But again, small market, lack of sources.....guessing....most said the San Diego coach was out, too

 

But knowing how unpredictable Jim Irsay is..why did so many say and accept that the coach was out  before any decision was made.

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

I seriously doubt the media was wrong.

 

I think Irsay explored other options,  found that he wasn't getting the answers he wanted,  and decided he'd stick with Pagano.

 

In short,  he simply changed his mind.      

 

That doesn't mean the media was wrong......

 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't know why you think this is apparent at all.     

 

It could be just as simple as Irsay had a change of heart and mind.     I think that's far more likely than "the media lies..."

 

 

You really ask that? With all the mixed articles that has come out from the media in the last two or so weeks? The media does lie. They print or report stories that are not true, taken out of context or exaggerated. Do you really believe all the nonsense that the media peddles?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

You really ask that? With all the mixed articles that has come out from the media in the last two or so weeks? The media does lie. They print or report stories that are not true, taken out of context or exaggerated. Do you really believe all the nonsense that the media peddles?

 

There's a difference, a huge difference,  between reporting stories that are not true,  and those that are taken out of context or exaggerated.

 

Taken out of context and or exaggerated are more in the eye of the reader.

 

Printing stories that are not true are so rare as to almost not be noticed.     There's also a huge difference in someone who gets a story wrong and someone who prints something that isn't true.

 

Isn't true implies deliberate.     Getting it wrong implies an honest mistake.     Huge difference.

 

Getting stories wrong happen all the time.    The way you punish websites or newspapers that get stories wrong is by not buying or reading them if they mess-up too often.    Printing something deliberately false just isn't done at the highest levels of journalism.    It shouldn't happen on the medium or smallest levels.    But I can't speak for everyone in the profession.

 

Mixed articles about Pagano?     How were they mixed?     Most all of them said he was done,  that Irsay would likely fire him.     Mixed implies some said he'd be fired and some said he'd be retained.     Who said he'd stay?

 

The difference in stories typically comes down to different media outlets having different sources.   Some sources are better than others.   More in the loop.     Getting a story wrong does not mean the outlet lied.

 

I'm happy to continue discussing this.    As a journalist,  your credibility is ALL YOU HAVE.    If you're not credible,  you've got nothing.     It's the coin of the realm.

 

[VaAllDay757]

Whoever they was talking to for a candidate it didn't work out some reason I don't believe they was wrong the media just spoke too soon irsay had to back pedal to chuck

[SteelDragon]

I'm thinking Irsay was leaning towards firing Pagano. He may have put out "feelers" to Payton and possibly Saban ' s people. 

I think Pagano made a last minute,  impassioned plea to save his job.  I think he laid out a plan of action that was to Irsay ' s liking. I'm also thinking that Grigson's job is more secure with Pagano in tow, rather than going through the growing pains of a new coach and system. Grigson only had one year left on his contact.  The continuity of Pagano gives him a good shot of reaching the playoffs next season. 

These guys are going to have to tuck egos away and work together. Grigson's going to have to be flexible. 

[jszfunk]

Who are source and insiders? I have wondered that for years.

[DougDew]

Its because most of the "sources close to the organization" were giving their opinion of what the situation was.  We have to read the sentences closely...because citing someone else's opinion is not really a "source" in the traditional news sense.  Really, the sentence could read, "the opinion of a source close to the organization is", and it would really be an almost meaningless sentence.

[deedub75]

I don't think the media was exactly wrong about what was going on in the organization.  I think the circumstances  played a big role in Pagano being retained.  

[theanarchist]

8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think the plan was to release Pagano.  The situation changed based on the support of the players, not willing to pay the asking price for Payton, and the meeting with Pagano.  

Sounds about right. I think other options were explored but they werent going to work out so Jim decided to stick with Chuck. Simple as that I think.

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, deedub75 said:

I don't think the media was exactly wrong about what was going on in the organization.  I think the circumstances  played a big role in Pagano being retained.  

I don't think they were wrong either.  But I do think they were exaggerated...especially implying that Irsay didn't know or that the lines between job roles were being violated to a degree not authorized by Irsay. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There's a difference, a huge difference,  between reporting stories that are not true,  and those that are taken out of context or exaggerated.

 

Taken out of context and or exaggerated are more in the eye of the reader.

 

Printing stories that are not true are so rare as to almost not be noticed.     There's also a huge difference in someone who gets a story wrong and someone who prints something that isn't true.

 

Isn't true implies deliberate.     Getting it wrong implies an honest mistake.     Huge difference.

 

Getting stories wrong happen all the time.    The way you punish websites or newspapers that get stories wrong is by not buying or reading them if they mess-up too often.    Printing something deliberately false just isn't done at the highest levels of journalism.    It shouldn't happen on the medium or smallest levels.    But I can't speak for everyone in the profession.

 

Mixed articles about Pagano?     How were they mixed?     Most all of them said he was done,  that Irsay would likely fire him.     Mixed implies some said he'd be fired and some said he'd be retained.     Who said he'd stay?

 

The difference in stories typically comes down to different media outlets having different sources.   Some sources are better than others.   More in the loop.     Getting a story wrong does not mean the outlet lied.

 

I'm happy to continue discussing this.    As a journalist,  your credibility is ALL YOU HAVE.    If you're not credible,  you've got nothing.     It's the coin of the realm.

 

You may defend all you care to because of your back ground but that don't make any statement I said any less true.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

9 hours ago, ColtRider said:

To Jim Irsay's credit and due diligence, he arrowed the target and hit it's mark yesterday with incredible negotiations between all three of them. Whatever went array has now been rectified to a much more aligned shift of weight. That's obvious. I truly thought that multiple personnel would be gone. Glad I was wrong. That would've been a waste of 4 years hard work.

 

Concentrating on making this team much more formidable was started today by releasing the DC. Building a great defense is priority one to achieve "The Monster" we all have anticipated. Let's see what else can be accomplished between now and next season. 

 

The course & direction of this team has been changed in the last 2 days. Keep it up, Indy! Before long, we'll remember the 2015-16 season as a great awakening & catapult to Champions.

Exactly!

[OffensivelyPC]

9 hours ago, cmgww said:

Even JMV, who has some pretty good sources, was wrong. He called the Manning release about a month before anyone else, so I tend to put my stock in him. First, he's a local, and secondly he has been more right than wrong in the past. He isn't he type to throw outlandish stuff out there just to get people riled up. I think the biggest thing was Sean Payton not working out. Had he agreed to come we might have seen a much different outcome. When he didn't, Irsay knew that there really weren't any other viable candidates that fit what he wanted...namely a HC (as opposed to an OC/DC like Gase. I also think he listened to the players. Luck himself said publicly he didn't want to go through another coaching change (in so many words), so who knew what he said behind closed doors? 

Did you hear Dan Dakich rip Stephen Holder a new one? Was hilarious. Called him young media punk and whatnot. Basically took issue with Holder reporting something and when it turned out wrong, Holder didn't own it. Instead, Holder said "3rd Party Sources are the most damning." Was entertaining to say the least. 

[jchandler7]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

anythingreally ask that? With all the mixed articles that has come out from the media in the last two or so weeks? The media does lie. They print or report stories that are not true, taken out of context or exaggerated. Do you really believe all the nonsense that the media peddles?

I agree, the media will write or say anything to get views! 

[jskinnz]

9 hours ago, Shive said:

Sports media these days is less about reporting things that have happened and more about trying to be the first to release a story. Usually this is by fabricating a story loosely pieced together by a number of rumors other reporters have put out trying to be the first to a story as well.

 

Also about getting hits on your stories, so you consistently get the "shock pieces".

 

I think that is a bunch of nonsense.

 

There are most assuredly issues that come from the need to be first all the time.  I will grant that in this day & age.  But reporters - not bloggers - but actual reporters tell their stories based on the info they get from their sources.  And not just one source but multiple.  And everyone from local to national writers all had Pagano being fired.  That was not some fabrication.  Just somewhere along the lines Irsay had a change of heart.

 

The story reported by virtually everyone leading up to Monday night was not wrong based on what they knew.  The story simply changed.

[Blindside]

Typical media. They are nothing more than a bunch of bookie's hedging their bets on 

information that is second, third and forth hand. To think that anyone knows what truly

is going to happen when things change all the way up to the very last second of D day

is ridiculous. Yes, I can be a cynic at times but unless you hear something from the horses

mouth, never put any stock into anything you hear. Plus you have to take in account how

savvy Irsay is when it comes to social media. You have to know he is just sitting back in the

big chair laughing his butt off because so many people have no clue what he is going to do.

Notice he didnt make a point to berate any local media for putting false information out there, If it were truly a sensitive subject that a potential big deal teetered on the validity a perception, he would have made a point to call someone out.  He didnt which tells me , know one will ever know what Irsay is going to do. To think otherwise is crazy.

[bababooey]

9 hours ago, Shive said:

ALL media these days is less about reporting things that have happened and more about trying to be the first to release a story.

Fixed for you.

[tikyle]

This is why I stayed away from these boards on the day of the re-signing.

 

So you mean to tell me that for over half of the season when the coach has "dead man walking" press conferences and quotes that everyone including himself do not believe he will be retained?

 

I didn't hear Jason Garrett saying "They can fire me but they can't eat me."  Didn't hear that from Harbaugh or Jim Caldwell either.  All of those coaches had down years from the previous year but none had the turmoil or were in the situation of only being offered a one year extension like Pagano.

 

The media didn't create this story..........Irsay did.  And for people on this board to act like it was some kind of media witch hunt is silly.  Irsay sided with Grigs over Pagano.  Irsay gave Grigs more power than he needed to have.  Irsay publicly said he was disappointed in the teams performances.  Irsay only offered a guy who went 11-5 three years in a row and advanced each year in the playoffs while making the playoffs every year a one year extension.  Do you realize how much a slap in the face that is?

 

People really need to use real life assessment when they talk about or judge things.  You're a top performer in your profession and they only offer to keep you around one extra year after you've proven your worth for three whole years?  Anyone in that situation would be insulted.

[OffensivelyPC]

2 hours ago, jszfunk said:

Who are source and insiders? I have wondered that for years.

It's the little man in the computer.  

[Valpo2004]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I seriously doubt the media was wrong.

 

I think Irsay explored other options,  found that he wasn't getting the answers he wanted,  and decided he'd stick with Pagano.

 

In short,  he simply changed his mind.      

 

That doesn't mean the media was wrong......

 

 

This. . . you don't offer your coach a 1 year extension at the beginning of the season if you have a ton of faith in him.  

 

That 1 year extension by itself should tell you that Irsay was exploring other options.  But like you said, he likely didn't get the answers he wanted.  Saban may have told him no, the Saints wanted too much for Payton, etc etc.  

 

I think Irsay realized that he wasn't going to bring in a big name guy like he wanted and chose to stick with what he had. 

[Gramz]

I'm not sure they were "wrong".   I think it's a combination of things.   If I recall, Chuck was offered a one year extension earlier, and turned it down.  

 

I think he wanted to be in for the long haul, and a one year extension was not acceptable to him.   It seems the players have rallied around him also, and made their thoughts known.  

 

Who knows about all the other speculation about him and Grigson not getting along.  Could be true,   

 

End result.  They have come to an agreement, and both are staying for the next several years.

 

 

[DougDew]

37 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Did you hear Dan Dakich rip Stephen Holder a new one? Was hilarious. Called him young media punk and whatnot. Basically took issue with Holder reporting something and when it turned out wrong, Holder didn't own it. Instead, Holder said "3rd Party Sources are the most damning." Was entertaining to say the least. 

I'm trying to tell the forum...you can tell by the way they write the sentences they are already building in an "out"....that ought to tell us something.

[BrentMc11]

2 minutes ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

I'm not sure they were "wrong".   I think it's a combination of things.   If I recall, Chuck was offered a one year extension earlier, and turned it down.  

 

I think he wanted to be in for the long haul, and a one year extension was not acceptable to him.   It seems the players have rallied around him also, and made their thoughts known.  

 

Who knows about all the other speculation about him and Grigson not getting along.  Could be true,   

 

End result.  They have come to an agreement, and both are staying for the next several years.

 

 

strange bedfellows....:)

[IndySouthsider]

15 minutes ago, tikyle said:

This is why I stayed away from these boards on the day of the re-signing.

 

So you mean to tell me that for over half of the season when the coach has "dead man walking" press conferences and quotes that everyone including himself do not believe he will be retained?

 

I didn't hear Jason Garrett saying "They can fire me but they can't eat me."  Didn't hear that from Harbaugh or Jim Caldwell either.  All of those coaches had down years from the previous year but none had the turmoil or were in the situation of only being offered a one year extension like Pagano.

 

The media didn't create this story..........Irsay did.  And for people on this board to act like it was some kind of media witch hunt is silly.  Irsay sided with Grigs over Pagano.  Irsay gave Grigs more power than he needed to have.  Irsay publicly said he was disappointed in the teams performances.  Irsay only offered a guy who went 11-5 three years in a row and advanced each year in the playoffs while making the playoffs every year a one year extension.  Do you realize how much a slap in the face that is?

 

People really need to use real life assessment when they talk about or judge things.  You're a top performer in your profession and they only offer to keep you around one extra year after you've proven your worth for three whole years?  Anyone in that situation would be insulted.

If he was insulted he was free to explore his options elsewhere. 

 

Funny, he didn't do that did he.

 

He bet on himself and almost lost. 

[OffensivelyPC]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm trying to tell the forum...you can tell by the way they write the sentences they are already building in an "out"....that ought to tell us something.

Yep.  Write so that readers jump to the conclusion you want, but keep that qualifier "but it could just be that..."  Yeah, writing 3 pages of accusation don't get saved by having that one little sentence as a means out.

[krunk]

7 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have heard mixed media reports on if Irsay contacted Payton or his agent so I have no clue to the truth in any media reports. I could be as simple as Irsay give it some thought and realized a lot of the Colts problems were not at the feet of Pagano. Irsay couldn't help seeing the fight in Chuck and the fight in the players who play for him. Irsay also heard majority fan thoughts on Chuck. As far as Grigson, with his first three seasons and a GM of the year it might be worth the gamble to stay with him. Even if there was a riff between Chuck and Ryan Irsay made it clear on what is expected. I am not too sure how much of a riff there was but as always, media either blows it out of context or just out and out lies. That much Is apparent.

 

I don't think the rift was as big as they say it was. I think Irsay sat both of them down and probably gave them some incite about Head Coach/GM relationships.  We have to understand that neither one of them(Grigs and Pagano) is all that experienced with what they are doing.  They both came in as newbies for the role.  He probably told them about situations where some of the great head coach and GMs maybe at one time butted heads and told them how to deal with the situation for long term success.  Probably gave them scenarios where Dungy and Polian maybe disagreed or other situations in NFL history.

[chrisfarley]

"Local" media is so wrong because you also have national outlets reporting this stuff.  For example, national outlet reports Irsay had contacted Sean Payton's team, Sean Payton's team cannot be contacted unless the Saints approve.  Reports now say that Saints NEVER were in the loop.  Which means that Irsay couldn't have contacted Payton's team of people, otherwise it's a violation.  So all this Sean Payton talk was false.  

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, tikyle said:

This is why I stayed away from these boards on the day of the re-signing.

 

So you mean to tell me that for over half of the season when the coach has "dead man walking" press conferences and quotes that everyone including himself do not believe he will be retained?

 

I didn't hear Jason Garrett saying "They can fire me but they can't eat me."  Didn't hear that from Harbaugh or Jim Caldwell either.  All of those coaches had down years from the previous year but none had the turmoil or were in the situation of only being offered a one year extension like Pagano.

 

The media didn't create this story..........Irsay did.  And for people on this board to act like it was some kind of media witch hunt is silly.  Irsay sided with Grigs over Pagano.  Irsay gave Grigs more power than he needed to have.  Irsay publicly said he was disappointed in the teams performances.  Irsay only offered a guy who went 11-5 three years in a row and advanced each year in the playoffs while making the playoffs every year a one year extension.  Do you realize how much a slap in the face that is?

 

People really need to use real life assessment when they talk about or judge things.  You're a top performer in your profession and they only offer to keep you around one extra year after you've proven your worth for three whole years?  Anyone in that situation would be insulted.

No Irsay did not create the story.  How much power Irsay gives his GM is not a story.  Its his team and he does what he wants. 

 

What creates the story is when the MEDIA COMPARES it to what THEY THINK the situation should be.....their opinion of how it should be.  The opinion, evident in the bolded, is how the media writers thought Pagano SHOULD feel.  

 

The local media...and mostly all of sports media...simply do not understand how businesses work, and tend to look at decision's like how a spoiled diva would look at it.  Like they think of a person as being a top performer in their profession, but the boss doesn't recognize it...golly, the boss must be stupid.  In reality, its probably the other way around.

 

It was not a media witch hunt, but it would not have been a story if the media's opinion of how things should be wasn't a part of it. 

 

[DougDew]

17 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Yep.  Write so that readers jump to the conclusion you want, but keep that qualifier "but it could just be that..."  Yeah, writing 3 pages of accusation don't get saved by having that one little sentence as a means out.

They know EXACTLY what they are doing.  Nothing was a mistake.

[tikyle]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Like they think of themselves as a top performer in their profession, but the boss doesn't recognize it...golly, the boss must be stupid.  In reality, its probably the other way around.

 

So you are saying that Pagano was not a top performer in his profession over his first three seasons?  I really do not see how that can be debated.  Now I agree Irsay is free to do whatever he wants and if he feels he can do better than Pagano then he should go for it.  But by any metrics or standards Pagano's production over the first three seasons of his HC career would put him in the top 8 (maybe even top 5) of HC over that same span.