Why was the media so wrong?

[Blindside]

20 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

I don't think the rift was as big as they say it was. I think Irsay sat both of them down and probably gave them some incite about Head Coach/GM relationships.  We have to understand that neither one of them(Grigs and Pagano) is all that experienced with what they are doing.  They both came in as newbies for the role.  He probably told them about situations where some of the great head coach and GMs maybe at one time butted heads and told them how to deal with the situation for long term success.  Probably gave them scenarios where Dungy and Polian maybe disagreed or other situations in NFL history.

Agreed- Link to support this.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13650458/jim-irsay-denies-reported-rift-indianapolis-colts-coach-chuck-pagano-gm-ryan-grigson

 

The last paragraph should prove the media has bias.

 

"Whenever these guys are in coaching -- players and everything -- everyone has to win," Irsay said. "That's a given. I don't look at it as he's coaching for his job or anything like that. I really don't see the dynamic being anything different than any other year in the past to be honest with you. I don't see it that way at all."

 

So even though we get a quote directly from the OWNER of the team, that Pagano is not coaching for his job, the media creates their own reality based on anonymous and probably complete garbage sources

 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, tikyle said:

 

So you are saying that Pagano was not a top performer in his profession over his first three seasons?  I really do not see how that can be debated.  Now I agree Irsay is free to do whatever he wants and if he feels he can do better than Pagano then he should go for it.  But by any metrics or standards Pagano's production over the first three seasons of his HC career would put him in the top 8 (maybe even top 5) of HC over that same span.

 

I slightly edited the portion you quoted already.

 

My opinion doesn't matter.  What matter's is that if the writer thinks that Pagano was a top performer, then they seem to look at the situation and how he might feel about it.  That's not really news.  That's getting into Kardashian territory.  IOW, the news is about Pagano's and Grigson's relationship.    Who cares.

 

Irsay said it correctly "nobody is going to bully my HC".  That's really what the media was doing, portraying Grigson as a bully.  He may be, but that's not really ESPN news...its E Network stuff.

[OffensivelyPC]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Irsay said it correctly "nobody is going to bully my HC".  That's really what the media was doing, portraying Grigson as a bully.  He may be, but that's not really ESPN news...its E Network stuff.

I'm honestly surprised the media didn't try to spin the usage of the word bully to somehow fit the context of school and workplace bullying...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Journalists are becoming more like weathermen everyday. The just throw stories out there as fast as they can, and if they're right 50% of the time, that's considered pretty good. This situation was so unique though because NO ONE predicted the outcome, and that rarely happens.

[Blindside]

8 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Journalists are becoming more like weathermen everyday. The just throw stories out there as fast as they can, and if they're right 50% of the time, that's considered pretty good. This situation was so unique though because NO ONE predicted the outcome, and that rarely happens.

 

Now dont give our weatherman a bad name  unless they have started selling crystal balls that I didn't know about no one should be predicting anything. 

[ColtRider]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its because most of the "sources close to the organization" were giving their opinion of what the situation was.  We have to read the sentences closely...because citing someone else's opinion is not really a "source" in the traditional news sense.  Really, the sentence could read, "the opinion of a source close to the organization is", and it would really be an almost meaningless sentence.

 

The one constant that is the Grand-daddy of them all ..."Sources close to the investigation" ...

 

Wish I had a dollar for everytime I've heard that in my life. But, I agree with NCF, consider the source before passing condemnation or approval.

[jaybird95]

12 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

 

Nationally, everyone thought coach Chuck and maybe Ryan Grigson would not be retained.

That;s understandable because no national media focuses on us the way they focus on the NY teams, Dallas, the NFC and AFC East etc.

Even on the Friday before he was retained, there was a national 'insider' who said Pagano was definetly out.

But again, small market, lack of sources.....guessing....most said the San Diego coach was out, too

 

But knowing how unpredictable Jim Irsay is..why did so many say and accept that the coach was out  before any decision was made.

Your thoughts?

 

 

And everyone fell for it. I said at the beginning of the season all of the rift/distinction rumors were all speculation. And I was told "how can you deny that? It's so obvious! "

[ColtRider]

4 minutes ago, jaybird95 said:

And everyone fell for it. I said at the beginning of the season all of the rift/distinction rumors were all speculation. And I was told "how can you deny that? It's so obvious! "

 

Well JB95, to be fair & honest there was a rift. As to what extent that was is anyone's guess. No doubt in my mind it was, in all likelihood, a combination of little things that came to a head at some point this season. All of that is supposedly gone thanks to the three of them airing out the dirty laundry. 

[Smonroe]

14 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

The one constant that is the Grand-daddy of them all ..."Sources close to the investigation" ...

 

Wish I had a dollar for everytime I've heard that in my life. But, I agree with NCF, consider the source before passing condemnation or approval.

 

You guys are all right, in different ways.  The media wasn't wrong - they were just reporting rumors.  That's what reporting is now days, especially in sports.  No one will tell you how "close to the ..." their source is.  They're reporting facts - just that the facts are someone's opinion and may have no basis in reality.

 

So, we can believe Irsay when he said his coach won't be bullied.  Pagano and Grigson never said anything different.  Or we can believe all those "sources close...".

 

To me, it's all noise.  I'm more interested in seeing how this team is going to proceed.  From the new coaches, to the draft picks, and especially what kind of plays Andrew will be running.

 

[DougDew]

28 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

The one constant that is the Grand-daddy of them all ..."Sources close to the investigation" ...

 

Wish I had a dollar for everytime I've heard that in my life. But, I agree with NCF, consider the source before passing condemnation or approval.

Media people certainly cannot reveal sources.  Nobody is asking them to say "person X said this".  And the media cannot reveal too much specific information, or else it might expose the source indirectly, because that source may be the only person in the organization who would have that information. 

 

But did anybody ask Jim Irsay about the meddling accusation?  The media simply could have said that "we tried to discuss this with Irsay but he declined to comment on the matter".  If they did, I missed it.   It sounds to me like the media did not really investigate, but was satisfied with simply spreading hearsy and other's opinions. That's just shabby reporting fitting for the E Network, IMO.

 

(BTW, Kravitz started this stuff over the summer and had 4 months to ask Irsay about it.  I don't think I ever read where he even tried)

[ColtRider]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Media people certainly cannot reveal sources.  Nobody is asking them to say "person X said this".  And the media cannot reveal too much specific information, or else it might expose the source indirectly, because that source may be the only person in the organization who would have that information. 

 

But did anybody ask Jim Irsay about the meddling accusation?  The media simply could have said that "we tried to contact Irsay but he declined to comment on the matter".  If they did I missed it.   It sounds to me like the media did not really investigate, but was satisfied with simply spreading hearsy and other's opinions. That's just shabby reporting fitting for the E Network, IMO.

 

I tend to agree with you, DD. Maybe they tried to investigate further but always ran into a brick wall with "sources close to the organization". Anyone's guess. I remember the rift in the locker room. Not good. Also paying attention along the sidelines when it seemed a couple times this year Chuck got the strangest look on his face during games. Leaks happen. Always will. Usually where there's smoke the fire follows. This seems to be one of those cases. We (the public) hardly ever get the 100% truth of anything. There are always intangibles to every story.

[jaybird95]

17 minutes ago, ColtRider said:

 

Well JB95, to be fair & honest there was a rift. As to what extent that was is anyone's guess. No doubt in my mind it was, in all likelihood, a combination of little things that came to a head at some point this season. All of that is supposedly gone thanks to the three of them airing out the dirty laundry. 

Find a source. The men themselves said there wasn't. Can't get more absolute than that. 

[ColtRider]

2 minutes ago, jaybird95 said:

Find a source. The men themselves said there wasn't. Can't get more absolute than that. 

 

Of course they're going to say that. It had to vault from a credible source, otherwise it's a non-story.

[Dustin]

1 minute ago, jaybird95 said:

Find a source. The men themselves said there wasn't. Can't get more absolute than that. 

 

Joe Banner:

 

https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/status/684368877397106688

[DougDew]

Why does anybody thinks it matters if it lasts or not.  More soap opera stuff.

 

After their meeting, I'm sure that Pagano has the clear approval from Irsay to play who he wants.  Grigson can sit in his office and stew over it if he wants to. 

 

 As far as 53 man roster decisions...that's up to Grigson...as it should be. He knows is future depends on selecting good players, and I'm sure that he wants employment in the NFL after this three year contract.  Only a goof would think that he would purposely sabotage the roster just to bully Pagano.

[Gavin]

Grigson and Pagano have many times acknowledged that they have agreed to disagree on multiple instances and many disagreements can create a rift...But not one that can not get past. How many disagreements exactly and on what we don't know but clear defined roles should be established

[ColtRider]

7 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Grigson and Pagano have many times acknowledged that they have agreed to disagree on multiple instances and many disagreements can create a rift...But not one that can not get past. How many disagreements exactly and on what we don't know but clear defined roles should be established

 

Thanks Gavin. Went to get Pagano's statements about the disagreements between himself & Grigson. Pagano states exactly what you've posted. They agree to disagree and leave it at that. He also stated this in the presser with Irsay & Grigson.

[tikyle]

39 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Grigson and Pagano have many times acknowledged that they have agreed to disagree on multiple instances and many disagreements can create a rift...But not one that can not get past. How many disagreements exactly and on what we don't know but clear defined roles should be established

This can cause many issues depending on the degree of it.

Grigs might see us as a "greatest show on turf team" with a bunch of small speedy receivers and a vertical passing game.  Pags could see us as a "meat and potatoes" ground pound and play action team like what Stanford is.  Grigs then drafts players to fit his vision while Pagano hires coaches to fit his.  See where this is going?

 

If you're building something the architect and the contractor can't have opposite views of what the final outcome will be.  If so you have a disaster on your hands as the financier/owner.

 

One has to believe in the other and trust their vision and go with one plan.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You may defend all you care to because of your back ground but that don't make any statement I said any less true.

 

You see my post as defending.     I see my post as explaining.    Different.

 

And your point that I noted about you saying Pagano stories were MIXED,  and I asked several times who were they mixed and that NO ONE predicted that Pagano was going to keep his job.     Most everyone wrote Pagano was going to be fired.   

 

They weren't mixed at all.

 

So,  that makes your statement very much less true.

 

 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, jaybird95 said:

Find a source. The men themselves said there wasn't. Can't get more absolute than that. 

 

Of course they're going to deny.      Who wants to admit that Grigson and Pagano didn't work well together?

 

That Grigson and Irsay were THIS CLOSE to firing Pagano?       No one publicly admits that kind of stuff.

 

They deny.      They talk around it.       That's the way these things play out in the real world,  not jus with the Colts -- but everywhere.        You try to keep your dirty laundry in-house and out of the public eye.

 

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, ColtRider said:

 

Thanks Gavin. Went to get Pagano's statements about the disagreements between himself & Grigson. Pagano states exactly what you've posted. They agree to disagree and leave it at that. He also stated this in the presser with Irsay & Grigson.

Also it is important to keep in mind (especially when watching the draft and the Colts pick is up) that we have an organization(group of men and women) trying to decide on one player to pick......Not everyone will get the guy they wanted BUT one thing is worth noting when draft picks fail to live up to expectations....Who is more often the fall guy because of it? the HC.....Not because he cant coach most of time either...But because either draft picks did not work out or FA's brought in did not work out and that's a scouting issue. Many coaches have been fired over the years that are good coaches who could manage players and game situations well.

 

Am I saying Pagano is a great coach? Hell no...and for the record he was not my first choice when it came to the possibility of a HC for the future (I wanted Saban because to me he has experience and knows how to gameplan and is better at handling situations such as halftime adjustments)...By anyway enough about Saban (Pipe dream denied) clear roles have to be established, Pagano and Grigson in my opinion should have a list based on what they want in players in the draft. Scouts in turn should go out in there designated areas scouting for these qualities. Grigson in turn being a former scout should do his own scouting BUT the HC should have precedence over whos drafted because ultimately most often he is the first to go if things blow up(Just like he almost was). If said player that the coach wants is off the board then its the GM's call(in which case coordinators need to figure out how to incorporate the drafted players skills into their scheme...the best coordinators can do that)...With all that' said its smart to recognize that there are position coaches in that room that have more expertise in area then you(meaning a coach in another area).

 

Long winded I know but just my thoughts

 

 

[ColtRider]

8 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Also it is important to keep in mind (especially when watching the draft and the Colts pick is up) that we have an organization(group of men and women) trying to decide on one player to pick......Not everyone will get the guy they wanted BUT one thing is worth noting when draft picks fail to live up to expectations....Who is more often the fall guy because of it? the HC.....Not because he cant coach most of time either...But because either draft picks did not work out or FA's brought in did not work out and that's a scouting issue. Many coaches have been fired over the years that are good coaches who could manage players and game situations well.

 

Am I saying Pagano is a great coach? Hell no...and for the record he was not my first choice when it came to the possibility of a HC for the future (I wanted Saban because to me he has experience and knows how to gameplan and is better at handling situations such as halftime adjustments)...By anyway enough about Saban (Pipe dream denied) clear roles have to be established, Pagano and Grigson in my opinion should have a list based on what they want in players in the draft. Scouts in turn should go out in there designated areas scouting for these qualities. Grigson in turn being a former scout should do his own scouting BUT the HC should have precedence over whos drafted because ultimately most often he is the first to go if things blow up(Just like he almost was). If said player that the coach wants is off the board then its the GM's call(in which case coordinators need to figure out how to incorporate the drafted players skills into their scheme...the best coordnators can do that)...With all that' said its smart to recognize that there are position coaches in that room that have more expertise in area then you(meaning a coach in another area).

 

Long winded I know but just my thoughts

 

 

 

Whatever highwater mark is established by defense, I certainly hope the new DC will unequivocally demand some input along with Chuck, Ryan & position coaches. Coming to a consensus that satisfies most of them is what builds Championships. That goes for the offense & special teams obviously as well. One nucleus is so critical with every move. Notwithstanding disagreements, it's the ultimate outcome of agreement that solidifies the greatest NFL teams.

[JColts72]

Maybe someone was feeding the Indy Star reporters spoon fed garbage to build up a sensational story then it went POOF! with Mud on their faces. Was there ever a later press conference in the NFL then 10:40 PM EST? I recall late video when the Colts trucked out of Baltimore.

[Smonroe]

24 minutes ago, Gavin said:

... BUT the HC should have precedence over whos drafted because ultimately most often he is the first to go if things blow up(Just like he almost was)....

 

Gavin, you obviously didn't see Draft Day!  Or maybe Grigson saw it too many times.

[Gavin]

1 minute ago, Smonroe said:

 

Gavin, you obviously didn't see Draft Day!  Or maybe Grigson saw it too many times.

I actually haven't yet

[Smonroe]

4 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I actually haven't yet

 

You should watch it.  I won't give anything away, but considering it's the Browns, you could definitely call their draft science fiction.

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Joe Banner:

 

https://twitter.com/TribStarTJames/status/684368877397106688

 

So Chud is Banner's source?

[Dustin]

Just now, Superman said:

 

So Chud is Banner's source?

 

Probably. Makes me not want him back tbh

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

So Chud is Banner's source?

Oh...Joe Banner from Cleveland Browns.

 

Just thinking out loud, would Banner have a dog in the Pagano Grigson fight, considering I think he was on the other end of the TRich trade?

[Dustin]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Oh...Joe Banner from Cleveland Browns.

 

Just thinking out loud, would Banner have a dog in the Pagano Grigson fight, considering I think he was on the other end of the TRich trade?

 

Banner worked with Grigson for years in Philly. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Banner worked with Grigson for years in Philly. 

Oh.  I thought the possibility of Chud being the source for Joe Banner would be that they knew each other from Cleveland.  I'm confused but that's not unusual...Carry on...

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, Dustin said:

Probably. Makes me not want him back tbh

 

At first I was wondering what in the world Joe Banner had to do with anything Colts related, for you to use his statement like that. But just connecting dots leads us to Chud. 

 

I don't like that, either.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Banner worked with Grigson for years in Philly. 

 

That's right! Dang, can't pin it on Chud so decisively, then. Or maybe Banner got it from both sides... 

[throwing BBZ]

17 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

 

Nationally, everyone thought coach Chuck and maybe Ryan Grigson would not be retained.

That;s understandable because no national media focuses on us the way they focus on the NY teams, Dallas, the NFC and AFC East etc.

Even on the Friday before he was retained, there was a national 'insider' who said Pagano was definetly out.

But again, small market, lack of sources.....guessing....most said the San Diego coach was out, too

 

But knowing how unpredictable Jim Irsay is..why did so many say and accept that the coach was out  before any decision was made.

Your thoughts?

 

 

 

 It doesn`t matter. Just the usual speculation Jibberish.

[Dustin]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's right! Dang, can't pin it on Chud so decisively, then. Or maybe Banner got it from both sides... 

 

Yeah so either our OC or GM was leaking inside info to the media. Contract extensions all around!!!

[jaybird95]

5 hours ago, ColtRider said:

 

Of course they're going to say that. It had to vault from a credible source, otherwise it's a non-story.

 

If you can't find a creidble, reliable source other than 'rumors' or 'sources within the organization', then it's all just speculation. You can't criticize the media and then take it's word for gospel just when it benefits you. 

[Superman]

37 minutes ago, Dustin said:

 

Yeah so either our OC or GM was leaking inside info to the media. Contract extensions all around!!!

 

Not the OC...

 

Or, if we want to sleep easy, we can pretend it was Manusky, and he embellished it all, and now he's fired. 

[ColtRider]

3 minutes ago, jaybird95 said:

 

If you can't find a creidble, reliable source other than 'rumors' or 'sources within the organization', then it's all just speculation. You can't criticize the media and then take it's word for gospel just when it benefits you. 

 

Okay, whatever you say. Check above you, though. Something just flew right over your head.

[Gavin]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not the OC...

 

Or, if we want to sleep easy, we can pretend it was Manusky, and he embellished it all, and now he's fired. 

Wouldn't be to far of a stretch really, Manusky did get pretty mad back in 2013 over lack of defensive draft picks, Now that was a while ago obviously but nothing would surprise me. Its possible that along with other decisions it set things in motion

[jaybird95]

7 hours ago, ColtRider said:

 

Okay, whatever you say. Check above you, though. Something just flew right over your head.

Yeah, tell me something flew right over my head and don't respond.