How to stop the Pats?

[Superman]

Really good analysis.  I guess I'm saying that I don't trust our ability to do as much with 4 as the Chiefs did with Hali/Houston - especially now that Gronk seems to be himself, and with the emergence of LaFell.  We don't have as much base pass rush to offer, and the Pats are offering way more as an offense to defend than they were against the Chiefs.

 

This is a movie that I feel like I've seen before...and I want to watch something different, even if it's just as bad.

 

True that the Chiefs have a better four man rush than we do. No question about that. And we had Mathis last year against the Broncos, who was a game wrecker. I hadn't thought about that.

 

I don't know that we've approached any game with this kind of gameplan in the Pagano era, though. I'm not talking about a vanilla zone coverage like the Caldwell/Coyer defense. I'm not talking about giving cushion to the outside receivers. I'm really talking about physical, aggressive coverage on the outside guys, and physical, aggressive coverage against Gronk in the middle. And we'd still be able to find times to blitz. If they run 40 pass plays, we'd still be able to come at them 6-10 times.

 

I just think trying to manufacture a pass rush weakens us and plays to their strengths. Talking specifically about this matchup. I'd rather give our coverage a better chance to hold up, and force Brady to make great plays. 

[King Colt]

The only weapon effective to stop the Pats is not yet available because it is called "time".

[lollygagger8]

I wonder if we shouldn't stick with a four man rush most of this game, play single high, and bracket Gronk with a safety and a linebacker. Butler does a good job on Welker/Edelman kind of receivers, generally. Davis and Toler can handle Amendola and LaFell. And our front is generally pretty good against traditional rushing attacks. I think I'd hold back on the blitz for this game, and let everything else sort itself out.

 

 I like this idea. 

 

Plus we should play Freeman and Muamba at ILB at the same time. They are both our best covering LB's. 

[Larry Horseman]

Does anyone think we will use Landry as a LB in Nickle packages moving forward? I thought after getting abused by Thomas @ Denver, he looked better. Just wondering if this could help our issue with guarding TE's/middle of the field pass d moving forward. 

[3nk1du]

No turnovers and develop a pass rush. The two games New England lost were to Miami and Kansas City, both on the road. Oakland lost, but they only allowed NE to score 16 points. If other teams can do that, so can the Colts. The Jets lost by only two points. NE doesn't always win by such large margins. If the Jets and Oakland can keep it close....

 

Let's get past the Giants first, though. They are the first concern, and that team will be wanting a win.

 

Oakland can pressure the QB, Miami on of the best front, Kansas J.Houston is playing really good.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Hit Brady legitimately or take a late shot at him.

[ColtStronger]

I think Lucas Oil Stadium is going to be a madhouse full of crazy fans that will erupt with every sack, stop, or score (Colts of course).  Making it difficult for even Tom Terrific to keep his cool!  If they play with high energy and not make dumb mistakes, I think the Colts will win!

[braveheartcolt]

Dress up as the Giants.

[Coffeedrinker]

Dress up as the Giants.

That is funny.  

 

But it's also a good point.  The way slow down and beat the Patriots is you have to have 4 different game plans, one for each quarter.  BB is great at figuring out what a team is doing and adjusting the pass routes, blocking schemes, etc.  But how the Giants beat them in the SBs and how KC beat them earlier in the year, even how Oakland was able to keep it close is because they used different schemes from their front 7.  They started with getting pressure from the front 4 (so that is a must) and then they started bringing an extra guy and playing zone with the rest.  And then they brought the extra guy from a different location and playing man on the WRs.  And then they took that extra guy made it look like he was coming but dropped him into zone between the hash marks and brought someone else from a different spot.

 

Additionally, no matter who they have going out for passes or how unstoppable they seem there is one thing that holds true.  Brady is deadly accurate between the hash marks... force him to throw outside of the hashmarks and he's not nearly as accurate or comfortable.  So, play a combination of man and zone to keep the middle of the field stacked with defenders and it will be a long day for the Patriots.

[Slick_Rick]

That is funny.  

 

But it's also a good point.  The way slow down and beat the Patriots is you have to have 4 different game plans, one for each quarter.  BB is great at figuring out what a team is doing and adjusting the pass routes, blocking schemes, etc.  But how the Giants beat them in the SBs and how KC beat them earlier in the year, even how Oakland was able to keep it close is because they used different schemes from their front 7.  They started with getting pressure from the front 4 (so that is a must) and then they started bringing an extra guy and playing zone with the rest.  And then they brought the extra guy from a different location and playing man on the WRs.  And then they took that extra guy made it look like he was coming but dropped him into zone between the hash marks and brought someone else from a different spot.

 

Additionally, no matter who they have going out for passes or how unstoppable they seem there is one thing that holds true.  Brady is deadly accurate between the hash marks... force him to throw outside of the hashmarks and he's not nearly as accurate or comfortable.  So, play a combination of man and zone to keep the middle of the field stacked with defenders and it will be a long day for the Patriots.

Very, very accurate assessment. I'm not saying change everything you do, but if it's on our tape, BB has seen it and has planned for it. Manusky will have to call his best game. Hamilton and Luck will have to keep churning out first downs. The best way to beat the Pats is to score every possession, and minimize the amount of time that Tom has to score. In addition, you must not give him anything easy. If he has all day to throw, it's game over. Pressure up the middle could really hurt his timing and confidence.

[deedub75]

No turnovers and penalties. That is a good start.

 

I'm not sure it's possible for Luck to go without an INT. 

[BlueCollarColts]

I remember before the Steelers game how everyone was so surprised how well we rushed the passer.... Now we apparently can't rush the passer lol

[ztboiler]

True that the Chiefs have a better four man rush than we do. No question about that. And we had Mathis last year against the Broncos, who was a game wrecker. I hadn't thought about that.

 

I don't know that we've approached any game with this kind of gameplan in the Pagano era, though. I'm not talking about a vanilla zone coverage like the Caldwell/Coyer defense. I'm not talking about giving cushion to the outside receivers. I'm really talking about physical, aggressive coverage on the outside guys, and physical, aggressive coverage against Gronk in the middle. And we'd still be able to find times to blitz. If they run 40 pass plays, we'd still be able to come at them 6-10 times.

 

I just think trying to manufacture a pass rush weakens us and plays to their strengths. Talking specifically about this matchup. I'd rather give our coverage a better chance to hold up, and force Brady to make great plays. 

Our coverage talent does exceed our pass rush talent in the now - so it's good thinking to maximize it.  I think we've seen some similar approaches to this in the Pagano era, with Mathis, ie. Denver, but it hasn't often worked as well as it did that day, and there is certainly some doubt as to whether or not it will work against Brady with a full complement of weapons unless we can get him on the ground with 4.  

 

My hunch is that you are probably closer to right about the approach Manusky will bring.

[Moose Of Woe]

When a 4 man rush isn't reliably getting to Brady, and your DB's are sitting on their heels failing to cover all night long, don't keep doing a 4 man rush. Bring 5.

 

If that doesn't work, keep increasing the number even if it means a jailbreak on every down. Make Brady uncomfortable for the night, and you win. Assuming your offense can score points and your special teams are respectable. Knocking Brady down once a quarter isn't going to make him uncomfortable. Putting him on his keyster on nearly every snap will put him in the Alice in Wonderland pouty pose with his legs stretched out.

 

Sure, you can expect he'll burn you a few times if you bring the house, but the rewards offset the negatives because if you don't that offense will rip you apart. Is it better to try and cover that many players, or go for the ONE GUY who needs to make accurate throws? It's the latter.

 

Nearly every team that has beat NE with him there has been able to hit him regularly. It's not rocket science.

[Hoosierdome93]

Our D needs to keep Brady on the ground.

[coltsfanatic24]

Double Gronk the entire game and blitz, I like our CB's matched up vs their WR's.

[GoColts8818]

Dress up as the Giants.

Well we do have Bradshaw...

 

Let's sign Tyree for this game and that might do it.

[zibby43]

I wonder if we shouldn't stick with a four man rush most of this game, play single high, and bracket Gronk with a safety and a linebacker. Butler does a good job on Welker/Edelman kind of receivers, generally. Davis and Toler can handle Amendola and LaFell. And our front is generally pretty good against traditional rushing attacks. I think I'd hold back on the blitz for this game, and let everything else sort itself out.

 

Brady with time = disaster.  I understand your point but we haven't been able to generate much of a pass rush with only four (4) and the Patriots offensive line is finally healthy.  That Pats o-line is better than the Steelers' line, too. 

 

Our defense is at its very best when Toler and Davis play stifling bump and run and the blitz gets there quickly.

 

I think the formula for winning the Patriots game is similar to the formula we used to beat Denver at home. 

[sixfive]

For he Colts to beat the Pats.  The Colts have to have ball control on offense, control the ball and keep Brady off of the field.  The Colts linebackers have a tall order in covering Gronk, the Pats love passing  in the slot.  With that being said if the Colts D line can generate a pass rush I see the Colts winning this one.

[Superman]

Brady with time = disaster.  I understand your point but we haven't been able to generate much of a pass rush with only four (4) and the Patriots offensive line is finally healthy.  That Pats o-line is better than the Steelers' line, too. 

 

Our defense is at its very best when Toler and Davis play stifling bump and run and the blitz gets there quickly.

 

I think the formula for winning the Patriots game is similar to the formula we used to beat Denver at home. 

 

We didn't blitz Manning in that game last year. Four blitzes out of 53 dropbacks. I'm talking about that same gameplan, essentially, except for bracketing Gronkowski when he's in the middle of the field.

 

Major difference is that we don't have Mathis.

[JerodMayo51]

Pay the officials more than they do.

Hehe, the Patriots are the most penalized team in the NFL.. so they can't be paying them all that much!

[JerodMayo51]

the sad thing is this rings more true than one would think...especially in games played in Gillette.......but the game is in Indy so that should make a huuuuuge difference.

my worry is that it seems that the Brady Great Wall of O Line seems to be coming back, so getting to him will be tough. However, when Denver blitzed yesterday they seemed to get to Brady and was effective, just never did it much.

His offensive line has been playing better no doubt, he wouldn't have survived the season iF they continued to play the way they did the first 4 weeks or so of the season. .

But Brady's success and time in the pocket can also be attributed to the mobility he has been working on in extending plays... he had quite a few plays that he extended with his legs against Denver that converted some touchdowns and third and longs

[zibby43]

We didn't blitz Manning in that game last year. Four blitzes out of 53 dropbacks. I'm talking about that same gameplan, essentially, except for bracketing Gronkowski when he's in the middle of the field.

 

Major difference is that we don't have Mathis.

 

I'm surprised we blitzed that little in the Denver game.  But I completely believe it.

 

What a difference Robert Mathis makes.  I'll be ecstatic to have him back in the mix with Werner, Newsome, Walden, etc. 

[superrep1967]

 

Well here are few stats:

53 passes(333 yards, 4 to, 1 int), 25 rushes ( 66 yards).

The biggest threat was Gronk 9 rec, 105 yards, 1td.

 

The Pats knew that Broncos Defense were #1 against the rush so they run the ball to kept them true but Colts defense isn't as talented as the Broncos, we don't have V.Miller, D.Ware to pressure the QB, against Pitt we weren't able to pressure the QB i don't see us pressuring Brady to make him take bad decisions, so any ideas how to stop them??

 

I just have one idea and that idea is "Score more than them and keep the Pats offense out of the field" because i don't see our defense stop the pats every 2-3 series, i do see them just giving 3 points(a couple of times).

 

I think TY can burn Browner again and if they put Davis against TY(he is faster than Davis and they are gonna double team TY) then we have Reggie against Browner and Allen/Moncrief/Fleener making plays.

 

 

 

I made his thread before the game against Giants because if we won that game and the defense looks good then we may be on a state were we think our Defense is good  enough to take Brady.

 

Sorry if it's a early to make this topic but after i saw Pats offense taking apart Broncos defense i couldn't stop think about how to stop them.

 

That's true but our defense plays much better at home. 

[Coffeedrinker]

I think the other thing the Colts need to do is pound the ball like they did in the Eagles game.  Again, follow the Chiefs and Miami examples and pound the run.  The Patriots are 10th in the league in yards per game allowed on the ground.  Take advantage of that with the two headed attack of TRich and Bradshaw.  

[chrisfarley]

Only way to stop the Pats is that Billichik gets the flu and can't prepare his team nor be at the game.

[GoColts00]

i think Gronk will be the key to this game. TE going across the middle have had great success against this Defense. I believe our LBs have to hit Gronk in the first 5 yards. Whether it's a Run or Pass just barrel right into Gronk!!! Knock him off his routes. Beat him up for 60 minutes.

Our CBs can take their WRs. Blanket LaFell/Edelman. Stop the Run. Knock Gronk off his routes. We can get to Brady with our pass rush, but we have to give our DL or LBs time to get to him.

[cmgww]

Landry, if he plays, is good for one thing. Laying the wood. He needs to (legally) knock Gronk and Edelman into the following week. And wrap up while doing it. Getting physical with their WRs/TEs/RBs is key

[CR91]

pressure pressure pressure. if we dont get to brady, we lose

[CoachLite]

Kidnap Brady and Bellicheck and hope that's enough!

 

(release them unharmed 24 hours later!)

Wouldn't a strong laxative in their Gatorade be sufficient? Just kidding.

[B~Town]

We have to be the bully hit Brady early and often make him regret coming to into our house . They run those bunch formation pick plays we have to be physical at the point and throw off there timing on those . We have to keep someone on and over Gronk ready to lay the wood every target he gets . Keeping there run from getting going is also key they are good at play action when there run game is working can't let that happen .  

 

When we have the ball we need to run it down there throats have long sustained drives that end in TD's keeping our D fresh .

[PATS16N0]

What's up, guys and gals?

 

 

So a lot of Patriot fans over at Patfans are worried about this game and I'm apparently crazy because I'm not - not anymore than any game.

To be fair, though, I have only seen 3 Colt games this year, and 2 of them were your losses in the early season, not that I put a lock of stock in the first 4 or 5 weeks of an NFL season.

 

My confidence comes basically from two things:

 

1. I just don't know how you're going to stop Gronk... I feel like any season he can remain healthy is going to be another Lombardi for Tom.

 

2. As much as I actually like Luck (and I do, that isn't blowing smoke), he just hasn't put his big boy pants on against the Patriots yet. 4 interceptions in both two games for a total of 8, and that was with rather suspect defenses.

 

This year with McCourty, Browner and Revis, and a whole lot of depth, the Patriots are boasting the most elite secondary in the NFL, and Andrew Luck is going to have to play on a level he's never shown Belichick before to get it done.

 

I just don't see it happening for Indianapolis, but I'm in a very small minority apparently with Patriot fans. As someone who hasn't seen enough Colt games this year to really have a good grasp on your team, I was hoping you could tell me what my fellow Pats fans are so worried about.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Superman]

What's up, guys and gals?

 

 

So a lot of Patriot fans over at Patfans are worried about this game and I'm apparently crazy because I'm not - not anymore than any game.

To be fair, though, I have only seen 3 Colt games this year, and 2 of them were your losses in the early season, not that I put a lock of stock in the first 4 or 5 weeks of an NFL season.

 

My confidence comes basically from two things:

 

1. I just don't know how you're going to stop Gronk... I feel like any season he can remain healthy is going to be another Lombardi for Tom.

 

2. As much as I actually like Luck (and I do, that isn't blowing smoke), he just hasn't put his big boy pants on against the Patriots yet. 4 interceptions in both two games for a total of 8, and that was with rather suspect defenses.

 

This year with McCourty, Browner and Revis, and a whole lot of depth, the Patriots are boasting the most elite secondary in the NFL, and Andrew Luck is going to have to play on a level he's never shown Belichick before to get it done.

 

I just don't see it happening for Indianapolis, but I'm in a very small minority apparently with Patriot fans. As someone who hasn't seen enough Colt games this year to really have a good grasp on your team, I was hoping you could tell me what my fellow Pats fans are so worried about.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

I don't necessarily know that you need to worry, but I do think it's going to be a good matchup.

 

1) Gronk is a monster. I don't think we can stop him, not without a very concerted effort to take him out of the game, and I don't know if that's even possible. That one-hander against the Broncos is evidence of how difficult it is to keep him in check. I think we need to bracket him and stick with man coverage on everyone else, and I think our corners are capable of handling your other guys. Edelman is a tough cover, but Butler did a good job on him last year in the playoffs, and has done a good job on Welker in the past. I think Amendola and LaFell are overmatched against Davis and Toler. So if we go single high and stay draped all over Gronk, I think we force Brady to make some plays downfield. We're weakest up the middle, you're strongest up the middle, so I expect us to concentrate our efforts on that part of the field.

 

2) You guys have the best homefield advantage in the AFC, especially late in the year. And Luck is much better than he was the past two years. He is still sometimes not consistent with his passes, but I don't think that just because he turned the ball over in the previous two matchups (in Foxborough, by the way), that he's going to be turnover prone in this game. Especially at home.

 

3) I understand that you technically have a better secondary, but you don't have a corner who can cover TY Hilton. So we present a matchup issue with you as well, difference being that I think our other guys can still get open and be productive against your pass defense, especially if you commit extra players to taking away Hilton's big play potential.

 

4) Another thing, even through Brady's recent hot streak, he's significantly less efficient against the blitz. I don't think we should get blitz crazy, but I'm sure we're going to bring some heat, and Brady is going to have to beat it. Easier said than done against a coverage unit that likes to press receivers off the line.

[NewColtsFan]

 

3) I understand that you technically have a better secondary, but you don't have a corner who can cover TY Hilton. So we present a matchup issue with you as well, difference being that I think our other guys can still get open and be productive against your pass defense, especially if you commit extra players to taking away Hilton's big play potential.

 

 

 

Did I miss the news?    Did Revis die?    Car accident?     How about Browner?

 

How about whoever is their 3rd corner and was starting when Browner was on suspension?

 

I think Hilton scored a late TD against the Pats last year,   but I'm not sure NE was burned by him too badly, were they?   I'm operating from memory, so you have me at a disadvantage....

 

Why do I sense Bellicheck will have a defense for TYH when we play them.

[Superman]

Did I miss the news?    Did Revis die?    Car accident?     How about Browner?

 

How about whoever is their 3rd corner and was starting when Browner was on suspension?

 

I think Hilton scored a late TD against the Pats last year,   but I'm not sure NE was burned by him too badly, were they?   I'm operating from memory, so you have me at a disadvantage....

 

Why do I sense Bellicheck will have a defense for TYH when we play them.

 

Nope. I don't think Revis can cover Hilton, not if we move him and help him stay away from jams at the line of scrimmage. I KNOW Browner can't (that was proven last year against the Seahawks).

 

The news you may have missed is that TY Hilton is one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL. He's better than he was last year, Luck is better, our protection is better, and I think we have more weapons to distract their secondary than we did last year in the playoffs.

 

Belichick might have a plan to neutralize Hilton, but I don't think any one of their DBs can handle him all game, one on one. So if they roll coverage over to help, I think it helps us somewhere else.

[NewColtsFan]

Nope. I don't think Revis can cover Hilton, not if we move him and help him stay away from jams at the line of scrimmage. I KNOW Browner can't (that was proven last year against the Seahawks).

 

The news you may have missed is that TY Hilton is one of the most dynamic playmakers in the NFL. He's better than he was last year, Luck is better, our protection is better, and I think we have more weapons to distract their secondary than we did last year in the playoffs.

 

Belichick might have a plan to neutralize Hilton, but I don't think any one of their DBs can handle him all game, one on one. So if they roll coverage over to help, I think it helps us somewhere else.

 

 

What?    You didn't like my sarcasm?!?

 

As for your response.....    please, please, please,  let it all be true!    From your internet fingertips to Gods ears!!

 

I'd like nothing more than a Big W on that Sunday night.....

[Superman]

What?    You didn't like my sarcasm?!?

 

As for your response.....    please, please, please,  let it all be true!    From your internet fingertips to Gods ears!!

 

I'd like nothing more than a Big W on that Sunday night.....

 

LOL, I didn't sense the sarcasm. It's been a highly contentious couple of weeks around here, and I've missed sarcasm a few times since then...

 

If we take care of the ball, I think we can score on them. A lot. Just have to contain their receivers. I think Gronk might have 150 yards and 2 TDs, but we can't let Edelman or one of the other guys go off. And we can't let them run the ball. We're not giving up a lot of yards per game, but we're susceptible to a big play every now and then. 

 

I don't know what's going to happen. I'm saying all of this like it's going to be a shoot out, but watch the exact opposite happen, and the score is 13-9 or something. I don't care, just as long as we bring it home.

[Jason_]

We didn't blitz Manning in that game last year. Four blitzes out of 53 dropbacks. I'm talking about that same gameplan, essentially, except for bracketing Gronkowski when he's in the middle of the field.

 

Major difference is that we don't have Mathis.

 

True we don't have Mathis or anyone of his caliber as an edge rusher, though Newsome has been improving week to week as has Werner.  However, what about the interior of their OL?  They have a rookie at C and don't have a player of Logan Mankins' caliber when he was in his prime either.  I really like our interior DL in those sub packages...can Redding, RJF, Jones (if he's back), Kerr and Hughes bring pressure from the interior to take some of the pressure off Newsome and Werner on the edge?  And also let Newsome stunt to the interior several times to keep him away from the OT's.  Newsome's burst and acceleration once he clears the line is uncanny...I remember you and I discussing that in a thread right after he was drafted.  

[Happy2BeHere]

What's up, guys and gals?

 

 

So a lot of Patriot fans over at Patfans are worried about this game and I'm apparently crazy because I'm not - not anymore than any game.

To be fair, though, I have only seen 3 Colt games this year, and 2 of them were your losses in the early season, not that I put a lock of stock in the first 4 or 5 weeks of an NFL season.

 

My confidence comes basically from two things:

 

1. I just don't know how you're going to stop Gronk... I feel like any season he can remain healthy is going to be another Lombardi for Tom.

 

2. As much as I actually like Luck (and I do, that isn't blowing smoke), he just hasn't put his big boy pants on against the Patriots yet. 4 interceptions in both two games for a total of 8, and that was with rather suspect defenses.

 

This year with McCourty, Browner and Revis, and a whole lot of depth, the Patriots are boasting the most elite secondary in the NFL, and Andrew Luck is going to have to play on a level he's never shown Belichick before to get it done.

 

I just don't see it happening for Indianapolis, but I'm in a very small minority apparently with Patriot fans. As someone who hasn't seen enough Colt games this year to really have a good grasp on your team, I was hoping you could tell me what my fellow Pats fans are so worried about.

 

Thanks in advance!

Elite secondary? Manning thre up like 438 yards against that secondary I don't exactly call that elite. And as another poster pointed out Hilton can and will separate from coverage it's what he does...revis isn't the player he once was for sure.

Colts win this game, and I'm calling luck to have 350+ yards 3 tds and Brady will have 280ish yards with 2 tds

Vinateri will have 3 FGs and Gostkowski will have 2 FG's, pats put up 2 rushing tds while colts put up 1....

Add that all up and it's Colts 37 and Pats 34

Pats will pull close within 5 mins but we hold the ball to expire the clock....so it comes down to a FG somewhere along the lines that won the game

[PATS16N0]

Elite secondary? Manning thre up like 438 yards against that secondary I don't exactly call that elite. And as another poster pointed out Hilton can and will separate from coverage it's what he does...revis isn't the player he once was for sure.

Colts win this game, and I'm calling luck to have 350+ yards 3 tds and Brady will have 280ish yards with 2 tds

Vinateri will have 3 FGs and Gostkowski will have 2 FG's, pats put up 2 rushing tds while colts put up 1....

Add that all up and it's Colts 37 and Pats 34

Pats will pull close within 5 mins but we hold the ball to expire the clock....so it comes down to a FG somewhere along the lines that won the game

 

Yes, the King of garbage time managed to put up over 400 useless yards by the end of the game. Down 3 scores with under 3 minutes left to play, he was still throwing 30 and 40 yard passes IIRC.

 

But we're talking real football. Not fantasy football.

 

As for Revis, I don't know if you've been watching the games, but he's made everyone he's covered basically disappear. After the first few possessions, Peyton stopped even looking in his direction. I have no idea where you got the idea that Revis has been substandard, He's been pretty shut down phenomenal, actually.