Poll - QB Preference (now that PR has officially retired) (merge)

[Moosejawcolt]

14 minutes ago, life long said:

Well IMO a solid QB should be able to win some games on his own. We wouldn't only have a solid QB to win games. We would pair him with top 10 units on all sides of the ball. Our biggest weakness is pass D. Even if we had Mahomes if we pair him with a crap defense we aren't winning any more than under my scenario. 

Mahommes and their offensive weapons mask what ever warts KC has on D. Teams r always playing catchup. A lot easier to scheme against opposing offences.

[danlhart87]

Just now, DougDew said:

Washington too.  They are a playoff team and they want to keep it going.  They can use a first round pick on Trey Lance, win with Smith as long as he plays, and still build a better team.

 

ATL will definitely take a QB at 4 if they do not trade up with the Jets for the guy they want.

I think Atl goes D like Parsoms. I doubt they take QB then sit him for 1 or 2 years.

[shasta519]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't understand the logic of using capital on a rookie QB when we have Eason.  Eason is 6.6 235 and has a strong arm.  

 

The strategy should be to build the team, fill the holes, and let the fog clear up around Eason before you make a major splash at QB.  

 

Sign a FA, or give minor capital to wrestle away somebody else, but don't invest a lot of capital to have two young QBs when you don't really know what either of them will do.

If you are talking about drafting a guy like Trask..sure.
 

But Eason was a Day 3 “why not” lotto ticket...likely drafted to be the backup QB and potential trade fodder. 

 

It is pretty clear that the top 4-5 QBs in this draft are better prospects...at least in the eyes of NFL scouts and execs. Teams aren’t going to pass on these guys for multiple rounds like they did with Eason. 
 

Ideally, a roster would be built up entirely before plugging in a young QB...but you have to strike when the class is good...like it is this year. I just don’t see the path getting any easier going forward.

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Washington too.  They are a playoff team and they want to keep it going.  They can use a first round pick on Trey Lance, win with Smith as long as he plays, and still build a better team.

 

ATL will definitely take a QB at 4 if they do not trade up with the Jets for the guy they want.

That's why I think the Colts r out of luck in trying to trade up. To many teams in front of him. 

[TheNextGM]

Just a hunch, Colts get Darnold or Trubisky. 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I think Atl goes D like Parsoms. I doubt they take QB then sit him for 1 or 2 years.

IMO, Ryan is gone after this year.  He'll be gone this year if they get a QB and a decent draft pick for Ryan or one or two young players, and find $6m in additional cap space in the couch pillows somehow.    

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If this is what they decide to do I would be down trying to get Darnold to compete with eason. More experience and still very young.  That might be a better option then a rookie. That gives you two guys so it increases our chances.

Yeah, I have no problem with that scenario, if it presents itself.

 

Darnold has potential of very high reward, with minimal risk, IMO. He has been one of the guys I have been considering for a while.

 

I think he could be had for a 2nd and maybe a conditional 2022 pick or a player(if need be), since the Jets love our guys.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

IMO, Ryan is gone after this year.  He'll be gone this year if they get a QB and a decent draft pick for Ryan or one or two young players, and find $6m in additional cap space in the couch pillows somewhere.    

How would cutting Ryan effect their cap 

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Yeah, I have no problem with that scenario, if it presents itself.

 

Darnold has potential of very high reward, with minimal risk, IMO. He has been one of the guys I have been considering for a while.

 

I think he could be had for a 2nd and maybe a conditional 2022 pick or a player(if need be), since the Jets love our guys.

they love our scraps 

[John Waylon]

I really did just assume we’d end up with Stafford this season. At least whatever happens now will be interesting. 

[The Fish]

5 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

Just a hunch, Colts get Darnold or Trubisky. 

 

Honestly, if that happened, I'd probably be fine with canning everyone

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

How would cutting Ryan effect their cap 

$9m more than keeping him, if they did it now.

 

$49.9m dead cap

 

Post June 1st cut, they would save $17m(ish) range in 2021 with $23m(ish) dead cap in 2021 and $26m(ish) dead cap in 2022.

[holeymoley99]

Darnold appears broker, Trubisky never had it to begin with (He was a career backup in college to Marquise Williams who was an XFL backup until Williams left and Mitch started 1 year). We are primed for a Super Bowl run those 2 should only be viewed by rebuilding teams looking for a lottery ticket.

[Dingus McGirt]

9 minutes ago, TheNextGM said:

Just a hunch, Colts get Darnold or Trubisky. 

If this were to come to pass - I'd take Trubisky.

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

How would cutting Ryan effect their cap 

they love our scraps 

We had this discussion in another thread (or maybe this one I've lost track of where I'm at) .

 

I think we settled on that if he's TRADED,  ATLs cap charge for the trade is about 4m.  I could see a draft day trade where ATL gets Wilson or Fields at 4, then trades Ryan for a 3rd this year or a 2nd next year and maybe a young player on a cheap cap friendly contract.  Or maybe just two players.  

 

It looks like ATL needs to cut about 5 starters by March 17, just to get under the cap.  (Not Ryan or Jones, which would ADD to their cap problem if cut) So if they can find more space to take the Ryan 4m trade charge, they would probably prefer 2 young starter quality players.. like a Willis etc.... and no draft picks.  JMO.

 

That would get Ryan off their books completely and they would start with a clean slate with Fields and one or two new defensive starters.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

If this were to come to pass - I'd take Trubisky.

Is there any reason to think Trubisky problem was Nagy and that offense. I mean they made Foles look bad too. I don’t know enough about Mitch college career to have a opinion. Is there any way that franks system could be what he needs.

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

If this were to come to pass - I'd take Trubisky.

Only way I'm ok with that is they draft Lance to take over 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We had this discussion in another thread (or maybe this one I've lost count of where I'm at) .

 

I think we settled on that if he's TRADED,  ATLs cap charge for the trade is about 4m.  I could see a draft day trade where ATL gets Wilson or Fields at 4, then trades Ryan for a 3rd this year or a 2nd next year and maybe a young player on a cheap cap friendly contract.  Or maybe just two players.  

 

It looks like ATL needs to cut about 5 starters by March 17, just to get under the cap.  So if they can find more space to take the Ryan charge, they would probably prefer 2 young starter quality players.. like a Willis etc.... and no draft picks.  JMO.

 

 

Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st.   

[Restored]

22 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The difference is that Rosen showed that he was NOT the guy.     

 

After one season?

 

Josh Allen had more or less the same statistics that Rosen did his first year. Allen is now a budding star in his 3rd season. Not saying Rosen could've had the same trajectory but it is illogical to conclusively state that Rosen wasn't the guy after just one season.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st.   

That'll work too

[holeymoley99]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Is there any reason to think Trubisky problem was Nagy and that offense. I mean they made Foles look bad too. I don’t know enough about Mitch college career to have a opinion. Is there any way that franks system could be what he needs.

Backup in college until senior year

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

If this were to come to pass - I'd take Trubisky.

If it comes down to those two, I’d call up Curtis Painter

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

After one season?

 

Josh Allen had more or less the same statistics that Rosen did his first year. Allen is now a budding star in his 3rd season. Not saying Rosen could've had the same trajectory but it is illogical to conclusively state that Rosen wasn't the guy after just one season.

Look around.  Some people are saying that about Tua already.  There is a lot of dumping of young QBs, even after signing big contracts.

 

These guys are being drafted to be the Michael Jordan's/LeBron James of their football teams.  If the teams don't win, then obviously that QB isn't LeBron James.  Time to dump him and find a new one.

 

Ballard isn't taking that approach, IMO.

[Restored]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Look around.  Some people are saying that about Tua already.  There is a lot of dumping of young QBs, even after signing big contracts.

 

These guys are being drafted to be the Michael Jordan's/LeBron James of their football teams.  If the teams don't win, then obviously that QB isn't LeBron James.  Time to dump him and find a new one.

 

Ballard isn't taking that approach, IMO.

 

I'd agree. But you stating Rosen wasn't the guy after just one season is exactly the philosophy a lot of these teams follow to their own detriment. I believe Ballard will eventually get a young QB and stick with him to see him develop into hopefully something good.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st.   

It would be really stupid for ATL to leave ANY dead cap space on their books for Ryan past 2021.  So if the post June 1st leaves some accountability into 2022, the time to trade him is before June 1st.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Restored said:

 

I'd agree. But you stating Rosen wasn't the guy after just one season is exactly the philosophy a lot of these teams follow to their own detriment. I believe Ballard will eventually get a young QB and stick with him to see him develop into hopefully something good.

I don't know that he wasn't the guy.  I was just saying that is what ARIZ  said when they selected Murray when they still had Rosen.

 

And who knows if Murray is the guy.  He runs around a lot longer, that's for sure.

[w87r]

20 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Matt Ryan isn't getting traded before June 1st.   

If traded this is very true.

 

 

However, that doesn't mean teams cant come to an agreement on the deal and wait till then to execute it. This would give both teams the relief of knowing that, 1. They have a QB answer lined up, 2. Falcons have cap space that will clear and will be able to fill out roster more after June 1st.

 

 

Not to sure which route Falcons will want to go. I am going to go over their options at some point today.

 

The cap hit stays the same until June 1st either way, they just free up the extra money when June 1st hits.

 

I could see ATL attaching compensation(maybe a 2022 3rd/ and recieve a 2022 5th back or something along those lines) to avoid paying the extra $5.5m base which is guaranteed at this point. I could also see them just releasing him post june 1at and eat the additional $5.5m. Time will tell, I guess.

 

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It would be really stupid for ATL to leave ANY dead cap space on their books for Ryan past 2021.  So if the post June 1st leaves some accountability into 2022, the time to trade him is before June 1st.

Its a tough call.

 

$44.4m dead cap if traded before(all in 2021)$4m more cap space than if they would just keep him

 

Vs

 

$17.9m dead cap in 2021($23m cap space saved)

$26.5m dead cap in 2022.

 

 

It would be nice to clear it all this year for sure and the ideal thing to do. Whether it is even really possible, I will have to look at more of their roster and see if they can clear enough space to make it work.

[aaron11]

54 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Maybe not, but we don't need a Mahomes, Watson, Trevor, Fields, Wilson, or Lance. 

 I do think we need a good QB if the goal is to win a super bowl. Its not about one guy but the Chiefs have been rolling ever since they started Mahomes.  They could have had three straight super bowls if Dee ford didnt line up offsides

 

With that said i dont like our options now.  hope someone falls in the draft or that Eason is better in the pros than he ever was before.  

 

 

 

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, w87r said:

Its a tough call.

 

$44.4m dead cap if traded before(all in 2021)$4m more cap space than if they would just keep him

 

Vs

 

$17.9m dead cap in 2021($23m cap space saved)

$26.5m dead cap in 2022.

 

 

It would be nice to clear it all this year for sure and the ideal thing to do. Whether it is even really possible, I will have to look at more of their roster and see if they can clear enough space to make it work.

Yeah, they are going to have a massive losing record next year regardless if Ryan or Fields is their QB.  And everybody knows it.

The smart thing is to treat 2022 like the beginning of the new age and have all legacy cap hits off the books by then.

 

ATL definitely has to keep Julio for cap reasons.  Jones along with Ridley at WR, their TE, and Jake Matthews at LT, Fields could have a personally decent year in 2021.

 

But other than Grady Jackson, they are going to have to shed a lot of their defensive starters, and already have.  

[#12.]

With Darnold, it would depend on what they thought of him coming out.  That's probably more important than how he has played through three seasons.  If they loved him coming out, then I could see it.  He's only 23, the same age as Eason. It's an interesting case.  He has three years experience, but is still young enough to be molded and developed.  Darnold was a top 3 pick while many believe Eason has first round talent.  If you roll with the two of them, Frank should be able to get something out of one of them.  If he truly is a QB whisperer, that is.

 

As far as moving up in the first goes, I take Ballard at his word.  If you think they are packaging multiple picks to move up, you will probably be disappointed.

[aaron11]

5 minutes ago, #12. said:

If you think they are packaging multiple picks to move up, you will probably be disappointed.

I am kind of disappointed now with Rivers and Stafford out of the picture.  They both had issues but our options pretty weak unless you are high on Eason.  They could still make a trade for a veteran but i dont think anyone better than Phil or Matt is available 

 

This draft will be one big crap shot for everybody too.  

[IinD]

So much for its basically a done deal to the Colts recently.. Lol.

 

It's so useless listening to most 'insiders' nowadays..

[The Fish]

6 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

I am kind of disappointed now with Rivers and Stafford out of the picture.  They both had issues but our options pretty weak unless you are high on Eason.  They could still make a trade for a veteran but i dont think anyone better than Phil or Matt is available 

 

This draft will be one big crap shot for everybody too.  

There's always rebuilding the Texans roster with a bunch of our first rounders for Watson..

 

I'm curious how seriously that's being pursued and if the Texans are even entertaining it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

27 minutes ago, #12. said:

With Darnold, it would depend on what they thought of him coming out.  That's probably more important than how he has played through three seasons.  If they loved him coming out, then I could see it.  He's only 23, the same age as Eason. It's an interesting case.  He has three years experience, but is still young enough to be molded and developed.  Darnold was a top 3 pick while many believe Eason has first round talent.  If you roll with the two of them, Frank should be able to get something out of one of them.  If he truly is a QB whisperer, that is.

 

As far as moving up in the first goes, I take Ballard at his word.  If you think they are packaging multiple picks to move up, you will probably be disappointed.

You hit the nail on the head hear on Darnold. They can go back and look at their 2018 scouting reports. This is why Ballard said you have to do homework on every QB even if you don’t need one.  

[tweezy32]

What are the odds brissett comes back now and starts?... 

[w87r]

38 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah, they are going to have a massive losing record next year regardless if Ryan or Fields is their QB.  And everybody knows it.

The smart thing is to treat 2022 like the beginning of the new age and have all legacy cap hits off the books by then.

 

ATL definitely has to keep Julio for cap reasons.  Jones along with Ridley at WR, their TE, and Jake Matthews at LT, Fields could have a personally decent year in 2021.

 

But other than Grady Jackson, they are going to have to shed a lot of their defensive starters, and already have.  

Updated Falcons situation in link below. For anyone else that hasn't seen it. It has the Saints/Eagles/Steelers/Falcons cap situations.

 

 

[aaron11]

9 minutes ago, The Fish said:

There's always rebuilding the Texans roster with a bunch of our first rounders for Watson..

 

I'm curious how seriously that's being pursued and if the Texans are even entertaining it. 

I wonder about that too.  Normally Id say they wont trade him here, but that team might just have to blow it up and take what they can get

 

i just googled this, According to the Houston Chronicle, Houston is seeking two first-round picks, two second-round picks and two young defensive players for their 25-year-old star.

 

i would hate to lose Darius Leonard in this deal, but that is who they would want.  i think i would want to reduce the picks if it included him

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Is there any reason to think Trubisky problem was Nagy and that offense. I mean they made Foles look bad too. I don’t know enough about Mitch college career to have a opinion. Is there any way that franks system could be what he needs.

Foles is bad. Why do you think he has been on too many teams

[Stephen]

7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

I wonder about that too.  Normally Id say they wont trade him here, but that team might just have to blow it up and take what they can get

 

i just googled this, According to the Houston Chronicle, Houston is seeking two first-round picks, two second-round picks and two young defensive players for their 25-year-old star.

 

i would hate to lose Darius Leonard in this deal, but that is who they would want.  i think i would want to reduce the picks if it included him

Ballard  won't  do that

[The Fish]

8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

I wonder about that too.  Normally Id say they wont trade him here, but that team might just have to blow it up and take what they can get

 

i just googled this, According to the Houston Chronicle, Houston is seeking two first-round picks, two second-round picks and two young defensive players for their 25-year-old star.

 

i would hate to lose Darius Leonard in this deal, but that is who they would want.  i think i would want to reduce the picks if it included him

It's not hard to see that getting too steep quickly (for everyone) and yet..

One of the things built into this would be Watson's not going to want to go somewhere where the team isn't complete and is trading away lot's of future pieces to do this. That's a good way to stay in the cycle he's in, in Houston.