Poll - QB Preference (now that PR has officially retired) (merge)

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, w87r said:

I guess it could go both ways though, they would have to pick up his $10m roster bonus in 2021 in the above scenario but would free up $14.8m more in 2021 cap space than a pre June 1at trade. As they only clear up $853k if they trade him now, but have a $33.8m dead cap hit in 2021, but none for 2022.

 

 

Cap hit would be very team friendly if post June 1st:

Cap hit for team traded to:

2021 - $15.4m

2022 - $22m

2023 - $27m

2024 - $26m

 

 

If pre June 1st trade:

2021 - $25.4m

2022 - $22m

2023 - $27m

2024 - $26m

We could handle the pre-June hit.  What would it save the Eagles in 2021 cap if they included Ertz in a trade?  He's got one year left.  We could re-sign him to three more years at about 7m per.

 

I could see Ertz and Wentz in a trade for minimal price.  

 

Seems weird to guarantee $10m then trade him 3 months later.  That's overall more cap hit over 2 years.

 

We get their players, they get our coaches.....

[TheUnshuffler]

After losing out of Stafford, I’m climbing aboard the Darnold Express.

 

I believe he’d flourish on the Colts after having to suffer through 3 losing seasons with the Jets. 
 

I’m not really sure what I’d be willing to give up for him, I’d assume our first would be enough to get it done but is probably too much. Would a 2nd/4th be easier to digest?

 

[Dingus McGirt]

From "all Stafford - all the time" to "Wentz, Wentz, Wentz" in less than a day.

[richard pallo]

26 minutes ago, Starlord said:

After losing out of Stafford, I’m climbing aboard the Darnold Express.

 

I believe he’d flourish on the Colts after having to suffer through 3 losing seasons with the Jets. 
 

I’m not really sure what I’d be willing to give up for him, I’d assume our first would be enough to get it done but is probably too much. Would a 2nd/4th be easier to digest?

 

No one is sure after yesterday.  But if he is definitely plan B Ballard should try to get it done now vs. later.  One less QB available in the marketplace and plenty of suitors for the remainder.  

[ztboiler]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

My bad feeling says Mitch Trubisky for 2 years. 

It’s not crazy.  Especially as an alternative to spending draft capital chasing QBs that aren’t franchise guys.  The legend of Tubisky’s awfulness exceeds his actual awfulness...he’d complete a high percentage in Reichs offense.  Might have a year very similar to the one Rivers just had.  In the end, he probably has the same issue as Rivers...can’t close with elite QBs

 

[w87r]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

We could handle the pre-June hit.  What would it save the Eagles in 2021 cap if they included Ertz in a trade?  He's got one year left.  We could re-sign him to three more years at about 7m per.

 

I could see Ertz and Wentz in a trade for minimal price.  

 

Seems weird to guarantee $10m then trade him 3 months later.  That's overall more cap hit over 2 years.

 

We get their players, they get our coaches.....

Yeah we can handle the pre June cap hit, the question is can they. There cap situation is bad, I broke ot down in that Falcons thread as well.

 

Ertz will be gone, via trade or cut. They save $4m+ by moving him. He would have an $8m cap hit on trade. I imagine they will have to cut him. Them we could jist sign him for less than that hopefully.

 

Definitely would be weird to pick ip the $10m then trade them, but it helps them substantially this season of they do, would obviously have a dead capnhit next year im that case but might be worth it 1. and necessary 2.

 

Like I said they only save $853k this year with a pre June 1st trade. With $33.8m dead cap hit

 

But by picking up the $10m and trading him after June 1st they save $15.4m this year.

 

That is a big difference and with the way there team is set up they don't have many option to get far enough under the cap to do anything.

 

 

Definitely is a crazy scenario though. If you haven't looked at the Eagles option in that thread, take a look.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, poilucelt said:

this one will also involve a new OC and QB coach

I think Frank is a hellava coach

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

We could handle the pre-June hit.  What would it save the Eagles in 2021 cap if they included Ertz in a trade?  He's got one year left.  We could re-sign him to three more years at about 7m per.

 

I could see Ertz and Wentz in a trade for minimal price.  

 

Seems weird to guarantee $10m then trade him 3 months later.  That's overall more cap hit over 2 years.

 

We get their players, they get our coaches.....

I doubt Wentz goes any where. Pederson lost the war and was fired. The team chose Wentz and they have the year to fix him.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I doubt Wentz goes any where. Pederson lost the war and was fired. The team chose Wentz and they have the year to fix him.

And if it works, all the better for them. It will be interesting to watch and see what happens with Hurts. 

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, RollerColt said:

And if it works, all the better for them. It will be interesting to watch and see what happens with Hurts. 

Pederson's firing tells me that they think Wentz is the answer and not a lot of belief in Hurts. If they beleived in Hurts, Wentz would b on the block

[Moosejawcolt]

54 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

It’s not crazy.  Especially as an alternative to spending draft capital chasing QBs that aren’t franchise guys.  The legend of Tubisky’s awfulness exceeds his actual awfulness...he’d complete a high percentage in Reichs offense.  Might have a year very similar to the one Rivers just had.  In the end, he probably has the same issue as Rivers...can’t close with elite QBs

 

Have u watched Mitch? He is horrible. He has not shown any growth in 4 years.  He still rolls out and throws to the db even when it is obvious Mitch is staring right at him . They sign Mitch and I am tapping out for the year lol.

[RollerColt]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

Pederson's firing tells me that they think Wentz is the answer and not a lot of belief in Hurts. If they beleived in Hurts, Wentz would b on the block

Very possible. With the QB climate, one has to wonder how much capital Hurts has. He's got experience as a starter now. Sure he can continue to play backup, but I highly doubt he'll settle for that. 

 

For the record, I believe Wentz to have more talent and a higher ceiling than Hurts. I figure the Eagles brass feel similar. 

[buccolts]

Boy, I'm hoping Hurts isn't the target. 

[The Fish]

58 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

It’s not crazy.  Especially as an alternative to spending draft capital chasing QBs that aren’t franchise guys.  The legend of Tubisky’s awfulness exceeds his actual awfulness...he’d complete a high percentage in Reichs offense.  Might have a year very similar to the one Rivers just had.  In the end, he probably has the same issue as Rivers...can’t close with elite QBs

 

It's not crazy, as in a clinical diagnosis. But it's not a good idea exactly. 

 

As I said before, if Ballard did that, he's simply waiting to be fired and frankly, if Irsay turned around the next day and said "nah" and blew it up to find someone with more vision than giving Mitch the gig, I'd get it. 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Very possible. With the QB climate, one has to wonder how much capital Hurts has. He's got experience as a starter now. Sure he can continue to play backup, but I highly doubt he'll settle for that. 

 

For the record, I believe Wentz to have more talent and a higher ceiling than Hurts. I figure the Eagles brass feel similar. 

Yuppers.

[NFLfan]

7 hours ago, w87r said:

Tier 1:(no specific order)

Deshaun Watson(pipe dream)

Derek Carr(feasible)

Kirk Cousins @NFLfan

Sam Darnold(low risk/high reward)

Aaron Rodgers(not likely available)

Dak Prescott

 

 You really like Cousins. Look what a 49ers guy had to say about Cousins:

 

"Cousins is seen as an above average starting QB who is a bad leader and thus not someone worth trading for. I think most of the NFL sees him that way."

 

Kyle Shanahan loves Cousins. I would love it if we could swap QBs.  Cousins for Jimmy G and a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

 

You might appreciate this article. Trading for Cousins is not impossible:

 

https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/analysis/confused-by-the-kirk-cousins-trade-rumors-i-reached-out-to-49ers-webzone-for-clarity

 

I wonder how many Colts fans would like a trade for Cousins. @Colts_Fan12 loves Cousins. I know @stitches is not a fan. He and I see Cousins the same way.

[ztboiler]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Have u watched Mitch? He is horrible. He has not shown any growth in 4 years.  He still rolls out and throws to the db even when it is obvious Mitch is staring right at him . They sign Mitch and I am tapping out for the year lol.

Your declarations are noted

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Pederson's firing tells me that they think Wentz is the answer and not a lot of belief in Hurts. If they beleived in Hurts, Wentz would b on the block

If that was the case wouldn’t nick say something like Carson is our starter and we are going to work with him and get him back to where he was. Nick didn’t mention that. He couldn’t even answer who would be the starter.Eagles might decide they really like Hurts so they trade Wentz to get some extra picks.

[The Fish]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

 

 You really like Cousins. Look what a 49ers guy had to say about Cousins:

 

"Cousins is seen as an above average starting QB who is a bad leader and thus not someone worth trading for. I think most of the NFL sees him that way."

 

Kyle Shanahan loves Cousins. I would love it if we could swap QBs.  Cousins for Jimmy G and a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

 

You might appreciate this article. Trading for Cousins is not impossible:

 

https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/analysis/confused-by-the-kirk-cousins-trade-rumors-i-reached-out-to-49ers-webzone-for-clarity

 

I wonder how many Colts fans would like a trade for Cousins. @Colts_Fan12 loves Cousins. I know @stitches is not a fan. He and I see Cousins the same way.

Kirk Cousins is Mitch Trubisky who can throw to the left... 

(there's slightly more to this, but not much).

 

You'll never win anything with Kirk is the issue there. If he's on a stacked team, he'll keep it on schedule (barley), but you're waiting to lose to the best teams.

[jskinnz]

16 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Pederson's firing tells me that they think Wentz is the answer and not a lot of belief in Hurts. If they beleived in Hurts, Wentz would b on the block

 

How do you know he is not?

[ztboiler]

10 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's not crazy, as in a clinical diagnosis. But it's not a good idea exactly. 

 

As I said before, if Ballard did that, he's simply waiting to be fired and frankly, if Irsay turned around the next day and said "nah" and blew it up to find someone with more vision than giving Mitch the gig, I'd get it. 

None of that works in sequence without stating your assumptions.

 

Trubisky is far from plan A.  But plan A retired 18 months ago.  Plan B just retired as well.  Alt plan B required way more than Ballard would give, thankfully.   There are no plan Cs that we go into season with as confident as A or B....it’s just the way it works until you find your guy.

 

Some might prefer Darnold as plan C, I certainly would, but that involves variables we know little about.  Trubisky is actually a plan C I’d prefer to re-signing Brissett and who is actually available to sign in free agency without affecting your draft capital and that has additional value.

 

 

[Smoke317]

The thought of us turning to Darnold or Trubisky is a terrifying thought.  Might as well call up Curtis Painter or Gary Hogeboom. 

[NFLfan]

16 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Kirk Cousins is Mitch Trubisky who can throw to the left... 

(there's slightly more to this, but not much).

 

You'll never win anything with Kirk is the issue there. If he's on a stacked team, he'll keep it on schedule (barley), but you're waiting to lose to the best teams.

 

Trubisky runs a lot better.  Overall I believe Cousins is a more talented and productive QB. But I agree that he does not make me confident that we can win with him.

[waterdog]

10 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

I was thinking about this too.  Somewhere in these threads it was suggested he was pushed out because stafford would be available.  Maybe they can call him and say.  Ummmm remember that time we said you should retire, we were just kidding.  Lol

I thought Rivers was sincerely unsure after Week 18, and then became sure Week 19, when Castonzo retired. Any rumor, or 'belief' (the 'reporter's word was 'believe') seems self-serving for the team(company), and not for the player(employee).

Sorry to have to remind myself that the NFL is a 'business'.

Rivers only mistake is not taking a TV job, because he certainly would be better than Brees.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The fact anyone is even talking as Tribisky is a option tells how much trouble the colts are in. 

[The Fish]

15 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

None of that works in sequence without stating your assumptions.

 

Trubisky is far from plan A.  But plan A retired 18 months ago.  Plan B just retired as well.  Alt plan B required way more than Ballard would give, thankfully.   There are no plan Cs that we go into season with as confident as A or B....it’s just the way it works until you find your guy.

 

Some might prefer Darnold as plan C, I certainly would, but that involves variables we know little about.  Trubisky is actually a plan C I’d prefer to re-signing Brissett and who is actually available to sign in free agency without affecting your draft capital and that has additional value.

 

 

Fair enough... sort of. I'm going to be suspicious of any generally positive Mitch talk, but I see your point.

 

Ballard needs to show us what's up is what needs to happen ultimately, but what I think right now is that there needs to be some clear upside. Derek Carr for a 2? I still don't want Wentz, but that's going to get attention again. Both have played at a high level at least.

 

It's funny, when I figured out the other day that Stafford was going to get way more than Ballard was going to pony (colt?) up, I did this math too and though JB might get cycled through again and I felt about that like I do Mitch.  

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

None of that works in sequence without stating your assumptions.

 

Trubisky is far from plan A.  But plan A retired 18 months ago.  Plan B just retired as well.  Alt plan B required way more than Ballard would give, thankfully.   There are no plan Cs that we go into season with as confident as A or B....it’s just the way it works until you find your guy.

 

Some might prefer Darnold as plan C, I certainly would, but that involves variables we know little about.  Trubisky is actually a plan C I’d prefer to re-signing Brissett and who is actually available to sign in free agency without affecting your draft capital and that has additional value.

 

 

Whats the diff between Reichs O and Nagi O? As far as i know its very similar concepts. They both like the spread with the RPO game. Im not sure Trubisky would be much better here at putting the ball in the endzone. Their offense was always stuck in the mud in a Jacoby like fashion under Mitch.

[w87r]

33 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 You really like Cousins. Look what a 49ers guy had to say about Cousins:

 

"Cousins is seen as an above average starting QB who is a bad leader and thus not someone worth trading for. I think most of the NFL sees him that way."

 

Kyle Shanahan loves Cousins. I would love it if we could swap QBs.  Cousins for Jimmy G and a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

 

You might appreciate this article. Trading for Cousins is not impossible:

 

https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/analysis/confused-by-the-kirk-cousins-trade-rumors-i-reached-out-to-49ers-webzone-for-clarity

 

I wonder how many Colts fans would like a trade for Cousins. @Colts_Fan12 loves Cousins. I know @stitches is not a fan. He and I see Cousins the same way.

I mean, idk?

 

I went over the comparison yesterday with you.

 

 

In just about every statical category Cousins was better than Stafford. So if so many wanted Stafford they should be jumping at the chance to get Cousins.

 

Stats comparisons:(career stats)

W/L record:

KC - 51-51-2(so much for being a loser)

MS - 74-90-1

 

Comp%:

KC - 67%

MS - 62.6%

 

TD/INT ratio:

KC - 190/84 - 2.26/1

MS - 282/144 - 1.96/1

 

QB rating:

KC - 97.9

MS - 89.9

 

INT rate:

KC - 2.3%

MS - 2.3%

 

Pro Bowls:(doesn't mean much)

KC - 2

MS - 1

 

Sack%:

KC - 5.5%

MS - 5.8%

 

TD%:

KC - 5.2%

MS - 4.5%

 

YPA:

KC - 7.7

MS - 7.7

 

YPG: (finally something he is better at)

KC - 260.3

MS - 273.4

 

 

So you(not nflfan) tell me, if everyone was so pumped about Stafford, why is Cousins not a good option?

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

[waterdog]

4 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

The thought of us turning to Darnold or Trubisky is a terrifying thought.  Might as well call up Curtis Painter or Gary Hogeboom. 

Of those 2, Trubisky is the one I'll watch, whoever signs him.

I'd seen too much of Darnold midway through his 2017 USC season.

[waterdog]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The fact anyone is even talking as Tribisky is a option tells how much trouble the colts are in. 

Here's good news: at least it isn't you and me in trouble.

Keep praying.

[Tsarquise]

We need Curtis Painter back so he can deliver us the 2022 number 1 pick. 

[krunk]

Im not even certain that the Jets get rid of Darnold anymore. Im sort of leaning on the idea that Watson remains in Houston. Jets probably draft a guy to sit behind Darnold for a year or so i bet. Unless some dumb team gives up a bunch of picks for him or something 

[The Fish]

I want Aaron Rodgers. 

 

That's what should happen.

 

[Smoke317]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The fact anyone is even talking as Tribisky is a option tells how much trouble the colts are in. 

The really sad part is that people are calling for Darnold at all.  Making excuses for him that it’s the franchise. It’s Gase.  Anything but it being Darnold is the same inconsistent turnover machine he was in college. Trubisky has actually proven to be the better NFL QB of the two.  Desperation has us ready to waste a 3rd round pick or higher on a 1 more poor season from being a bust QB in Darnold.  Might as well let Eason get a chance.  He can’t be any worse than Darnold or Trubisky. And if he is then at least we’ll be drafting high next year and didn’t waste a good pick on a almost certified bust.

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

The really sad part is that people are calling for Darnold at all.  Making excuses for him that it’s the franchise. It’s Gase.  Anything but it being Darnold is the same inconsistent turnover machine he was in college. Trubisky has actually proven to be the better NFL QB of the two.  Desperation has us ready to waste a 3rd round pick or higher on a 1 more poor season from being a bust QB in Darnold.  Might as well let Eason get a chance.  He can’t be any worse than Darnold or Trubisky. And if he is then at least we’ll be drafting high next year and didn’t waste a good pick on a almost certified bust.

Trubisky > Darnold.  JMO.

[ztboiler]

15 minutes ago, krunk said:

Whats the diff between Reichs O and Nagi O? As far as i know its very similar concepts. They both like the spread with the RPO game. Im not sure Trubisky would be much better here at putting the ball in the endzone. Their offense was always stuck in the mud in a Jacoby like fashion under Mitch.

Might work out that way...but If you’re gonna waste a year...don’t waste draft capital too.  

[Smoke317]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im not even certain that the Jets get rid of Darnold anymore. Im sort of leaning on the idea that Watson remains in Houston. Jets probably draft a guy to sit behind Darnold for a year or so i bet. Unless some dumb team gives up a bunch of picks for him or something 

If the Jets keep Darnold they would be fools for passing on Sewell.  I read an article that said back in the 80’s they passed on drafting Anthony Munoz and took some running back or linebacker. Munoz would go on to become maybe the best OT of that era and a Hall of Famer.  Whoever they drafted busted out.  I don’t think they’ll make the same mistake again.  Then again they are the Jets...

[Colts_Fan12]

45 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 You really like Cousins. Look what a 49ers guy had to say about Cousins:

 

"Cousins is seen as an above average starting QB who is a bad leader and thus not someone worth trading for. I think most of the NFL sees him that way."

 

Kyle Shanahan loves Cousins. I would love it if we could swap QBs.  Cousins for Jimmy G and a 2nd or 3rd rounder. 

 

You might appreciate this article. Trading for Cousins is not impossible:

 

https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/analysis/confused-by-the-kirk-cousins-trade-rumors-i-reached-out-to-49ers-webzone-for-clarity

 

I wonder how many Colts fans would like a trade for Cousins. @Colts_Fan12 loves Cousins. I know @stitches is not a fan. He and I see Cousins the same way.

I would take Cousins right now in a heartbeat but you probably already knew that 

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, krunk said:

Im not even certain that the Jets get rid of Darnold anymore. Im sort of leaning on the idea that Watson remains in Houston. Jets probably draft a guy to sit behind Darnold for a year or so i bet. Unless some dumb team gives up a bunch of picks for him or something 

If the Jets were smart they'd pull a Ballard and trade the pick to ATL and drop to #4.  Jets don't have the roster or draft picks to trade for Watson, or to reload on another potential bust QB.

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I would take Cousins right now in a heartbeat but you probably already knew that 

You see my comparison post, with Cousins and Stafford?

 

I don't see how so many posters would want Stafford but not him?