Colts need to trade for a WR

[Myles]

I think the teAm is fine with what they have.  With the 3 TE's and Hines, they can do just fine.

[Moosejawcolt]

How bout thhe Colts finally develop a wr. Now that would b  monumental given their recent history

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, esmort said:

 

I read/heard from a couple of the talking heads that the Bengals won't trade Ross low because they think someone will pay up enough in offseason to give them a decent comp pick.

Thst why they r the Benglas. They have one win and they think teams covet a player who has like 20 catches his whole career and cant stay healthy. Rubbish

[Riversrun]

Robinson from the bears now please .

[DownHillRunner]

Ballard needs to call Ryan Pace and ask him what would it take to acquire Allen Robinson. Had another solid game today and is on pace for 1000 yards.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

Ballard needs to call Ryan Pace and ask him what would it take to acquire Allen Robinson. Had another solid game today and is on pace for 1000 yards.

Why would Chicago give up their leading WR when they are in the playoff hunt?

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Riversrun said:

Robinson from the bears now please .

 

3 minutes ago, DownHillRunner said:

Ballard needs to call Ryan Pace and ask him what would it take to acquire Allen Robinson. Had another solid game today and is on pace for 1000 yards.

There is ZERO chance the Bears would trade him away being in the midst of a fight in the NFC and the way their season is going. They’re a legit contender and should be pushing for the playoffs in their division 

[richard pallo]

 Keenan Allen from the Chargers would also be a great add.  

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

 Keenan Allen from the Chargers would also be a great add.  

Chargers just extended him 4 years right before the season started.

The last thing they need to do is get rid of their rook QB's best target. 

[zibby43]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It would be a heavy sweat. It would prevent us from re-signing a couple of our own free agents, for sure. 

 

So I guess it's about whether he'd be worth it. 

 

I read this somewhere, so don't know how reliable this is, but with Cooper, I heard it's possible next year to take that $20m and convert it into a signing bonus, and split it over four years.

 

In that case, the contract becomes much more digestible.  Cowboys would require a compensatory pick in the 3-5 range in exchange. 

 

Edit:

 

Found the details (it's from the Dallas Morning News, a reliable source):

 

"Any trade partner might wince at Cooper’s fully guaranteed $20 million salary in 2021, as all NFL clubs brace for the aforementioned tightened cap. There is an easy workaround, though. That team can convert most of his $20 million salary into a signing bonus, spreading the hit across four years (or even five with the addition of an option year)."

 

"The trade partner would need to place $20 million into escrow and provide the Cowboys suitable draft-pick compensation to complete the deal. That draft compensation would fortify Dallas' 2021 stockpile when it can expect at least an extra third-, fourth- and fifth-round compensatory draft pick, according to the Over the Cap website."

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

I read this somewhere, so don't know how reliable this is, but with Cooper, I heard it's possible next year to take that $20m and convert it into a signing bonus, and split it over four years.

 

In that case, the contract becomes much more digestible.  Cowboys would require a compensatory pick in the 3-5 range in exchange. 

I bet Chris, Jerry and Amari can work something out.  

[Superman]

36 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

I read this somewhere, so don't know how reliable this is, but with Cooper, I heard it's possible next year to take that $20m and convert it into a signing bonus, and split it over four years.

 

In that case, the contract becomes much more digestible.  Cowboys would require a compensatory pick in the 3-5 range in exchange. 

 

Edit:

 

Found the details (it's from the Dallas Morning News, a reliable source):

 

"Any trade partner might wince at Cooper’s fully guaranteed $20 million salary in 2021, as all NFL clubs brace for the aforementioned tightened cap. There is an easy workaround, though. That team can convert most of his $20 million salary into a signing bonus, spreading the hit across four years (or even five with the addition of an option year)."

 

"The trade partner would need to place $20 million into escrow and provide the Cowboys suitable draft-pick compensation to complete the deal. That draft compensation would fortify Dallas' 2021 stockpile when it can expect at least an extra third-, fourth- and fifth-round compensatory draft pick, according to the Over the Cap website."

 

You can restructure his deal, just like any other deal. That's not really helping the problem though. The concern for the Colts is total cash outlay + cap standing, over the next 3+ seasons. Not just his 2021 cap hit. 

[zibby43]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You can restructure his deal, just like any other deal. That's not really helping the problem though. The concern for the Colts is total cash outlay + cap standing, over the next 3+ seasons. Not just his 2021 cap hit. 

 

Yes, but thought it was worthwhile to add some context.

 

For example, Hilton's contract comes off the books after this year, and I don't see him getting another big contract here.  Same with Brissett.  Those are 2 big contracts gone. 

 

Anyway, I put any WR deal at 10% or less.  I think Ballard is content to continue to plug anonymous guys into those spots.  I could see him maybe picking up some edge depth.  I'd put that at 10% or less as well, though. 

 

Could burn the Colts though.  Pittman has already dealt with an injury, and Burton's fragility scares me.  With Mack gone, Hilton out indefinitely, and Campbell likely out for the remainder of the season, at a certain point, to win the games the Colts want to win late in the year against elite opponents, you're going to need some elite talent. 

[landrus13]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

I think the teAm is fine with what they have.  With the 3 TE's and Hines, they can do just fine.

Definitely agree. Colts don't have a #1 WR and it's been working fine. Rivers doesn't really have a favorite target. He mixes it up. 4 guys had at least catches today. He targeted 11 different guys. Tight ends and the RBs get a lot because he dumps it down a lot. Rivers passes it around, Colts aren't relying on 1 guy. Hilton went down today and you couldn't even tell. Scored 21 in the 2nd half without him. Didn't use to be that way. If he was out, the offense bogged down. 

[PRnum1]

Most that have followed Rivers long career know that he doesn't need premier big name WRs.

 

True he had Allen and Williams his last year in LA but that was more an anomaly than the rule.

 

Rivers with his accuracy and pass distribution makes the WR not the other way around. And most of his career he threw to average WRs.

 

That being said there are only 3 WRs who are indispensable to Rivers at this point.

 

That would be Johnson, Pascal and the 3rd who's a TE, MAC.

 

When the game hung in the balance today Rivers went to Moe and Johnson repeatedly. You can see the way he trusts them and has built a synergy with them.

 

Every other WR on the roster is replaceable so save your money and your draft picks.

 

Just don't get rid of those 3 guys. And don't ever send Johnson back to the practice squad.

[danlhart87]

Colts will be fine at WR

[krunk]

 Pittman needs to be more involved in the passing game. I assume they took it slow with him due to just coming back from injury. I did see a really wicked stalk block from him while watching the highlights. He took his man and drove him all the way into the ground.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

No excuse for not getting Pittman more involved in the passing game. I assume they took it slow with him due to just coming back from injury. I did see a really wicked stalk block from him while watching the highlights. He took his man and drove him all the way into the ground.

 

If it's the same play I'm thinking of, Pittman's one catch came on the very next play of the game. He's an excellent blocker. 

 

I'm surprised he played today. Not surprised he didn't get more targets. 

[krunk]

Yeah Rivers can roll with just about anybody at WR just like Brady can. I remember a couple Charger games years ago watching him drop bombs to a no name guy like Seyi Ajirotutu.

[danlhart87]

15 minutes ago, krunk said:

Yeah Rivers can roll with just about anybody at WR just like Brady can. I remember a couple Charger games years ago watching him drop bombs to a no name guy like Seyi Ajirotutu.

Did you make that name up?

 

[krunk]

28 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Did you make that name up?

 

No real player

[w87r]

7 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I read this somewhere, so don't know how reliable this is, but with Cooper, I heard it's possible next year to take that $20m and convert it into a signing bonus, and split it over four years.

 

In that case, the contract becomes much more digestible.  Cowboys would require a compensatory pick in the 3-5 range in exchange. 

 

Edit:

 

Found the details (it's from the Dallas Morning News, a reliable source):

 

"Any trade partner might wince at Cooper’s fully guaranteed $20 million salary in 2021, as all NFL clubs brace for the aforementioned tightened cap. There is an easy workaround, though. That team can convert most of his $20 million salary into a signing bonus, spreading the hit across four years (or even five with the addition of an option year)."

 

"The trade partner would need to place $20 million into escrow and provide the Cowboys suitable draft-pick compensation to complete the deal. That draft compensation would fortify Dallas' 2021 stockpile when it can expect at least an extra third-, fourth- and fifth-round compensatory draft pick, according to the Over the Cap website."

So he can have a cap hit of $25m for those 4 years. Seems like a great idea.  <----- sarcasm.

 

Seriously, Ballard would never make such a foolish move.

 

Can we drop it already.

 

6 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Yes, but thought it was worthwhile to add some context

Your context made the situation worse not better. 

[chad72]

8 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Yes, but thought it was worthwhile to add some context.

 

For example, Hilton's contract comes off the books after this year, and I don't see him getting another big contract here.  Same with Brissett.  Those are 2 big contracts gone. 

 

Anyway, I put any WR deal at 10% or less.  I think Ballard is content to continue to plug anonymous guys into those spots.  I could see him maybe picking up some edge depth.  I'd put that at 10% or less as well, though. 

 

Could burn the Colts though.  Pittman has already dealt with an injury, and Burton's fragility scares me.  With Mack gone, Hilton out indefinitely, and Campbell likely out for the remainder of the season, at a certain point, to win the games the Colts want to win late in the year against elite opponents, you're going to need some elite talent. 

 

While A J Green may not be elite talent at this point in time, he will definitely make for a good target at a reasonable price, IMO. We could offer a 5th that could become a conditional 4th based on playing time and team performance that might help with a trade. The Colts, when they play secondaries or tough nosed Ds like the Ravens or Steelers, will find out how difficult it can be without a go to guy to take the top off or make tough catches because the OL would not be able to dominate the better teams as easily as they could the Lions or Bengals. 

[richard pallo]

The 6-0 Steelers already made a move Sunday night to strengthen their team at the trade deadline.  That's what great franchises do when they are serious contenders.  Rivers can deliver the ball but can our receivers separate and catch the ball against the stronger teams?  I'm not so sure.  If Ballard wants to hold on to his top picks fine but getting a receiver like Green or Tate won't be expensive.  Hilton will probably miss time and who knows when Campbell comes back.  To stand pat makes no sense to me if we view ourselves as serious contenders.  JMO. 

[Mr.Debonair]

15 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The 6-0 Steelers already made a move Sunday night to strengthen their team at the trade deadline.  That's what great franchises do when they are serious contenders.  Rivers can deliver the ball but can our receivers separate and catch the ball against the stronger teams?  I'm not so sure.  If Ballard wants to hold on to his top picks fine but getting a receiver like Green or Tate won't be expensive.  Hilton will probably miss time and who knows when Campbell comes back.  To stand pat makes no sense to me if we view ourselves as serious contenders.  JMO. 

100%!!!!!

[ColtV]

15 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yeah his salary isn’t the issue.  I think the price tag Jerry would want for a trade for him is the issue because I don’t think Jerry is interested in trading him.

Agreed. Jones has probably decided this year is an aberration and next year they can get back to championship football...his delusion is that strong.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, ColtV said:

Agreed. Jones has probably decided this year is an aberration and next year they can get back to championship football...his delusion is that strong.

 

Maybe he can send Randy Gregory our way for a 5th or 6th rounder. 

[MikChiken]

At this point why wouldn’t you trade for a receiver and give this team a real shot? Sure we’ve beaten a few average teams with our underwhelming receiving corps so you think we can succeed in games against good teams? No way. If you want to win now, you have to trade for help. Don’t tell me rivers can throw to anyone. That isn’t going to happen against teams in the playoffs- especially when opposing offenses are putting up points.

[Jackie Daytona]

17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

With the new covid rules it doesn’t make sense.

I don't want to give up much in the way of assets, but with this logic, signing a street fa or PS off another team would make no sense either..... Bring a guy in, you think they would be dumb enough not to quarantine and test a millions times before adding to locker and meeting rooms?

[Barry Sears]

To think we could have signed Antonio Brown and not give up anything in a trade 

[chad72]

One name I have not seen brought up is Byron Pringle. When the Chiefs were really banged up with both Hill and Watkins out, Byron Pringle stepped up along with Hardman and Robinson and kept things afloat for them last year. I was impressed with some routes that he ran. Might be an easier guy to get, given Ballard's ties to the Chiefs, they won't probably ask for an arm and a leg.

 

Plus, with Hopkins, Kirk and Andy Isabella waiting in the wings, the Cardinals may be willing to part with Larry Fitzgerald, would be a nice go to option underneath which is what I think we might be lacking at this point. 

[Superman]

11 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Yes, but thought it was worthwhile to add some context.

 

For example, Hilton's contract comes off the books after this year, and I don't see him getting another big contract here.  Same with Brissett.  Those are 2 big contracts gone. 

 

Anyway, I put any WR deal at 10% or less.  I think Ballard is content to continue to plug anonymous guys into those spots.  I could see him maybe picking up some edge depth.  I'd put that at 10% or less as well, though. 

 

Could burn the Colts though.  Pittman has already dealt with an injury, and Burton's fragility scares me.  With Mack gone, Hilton out indefinitely, and Campbell likely out for the remainder of the season, at a certain point, to win the games the Colts want to win late in the year against elite opponents, you're going to need some elite talent. 

 

I don't think anything happens, either. Hilton's injury makes me nervous, so maybe a there's a slight chance something happens. But I have it at less than 10%. 

 

As for the Cooper contract situation, I'm saying the Colts don't have spare cap space in the future. They're projected to have $76m in cap space in 2021. I expect them to do new deals for Leonard and Nelson in the offseason, so that probably goes down to less than $50m. The next draft class is $15m. 

 

Hilton, Houston, Autry, Hooker, Mack, Rhodes, Day, Burton, Walker, Johnson, Stewart, Muhammad are all unrestricted FAs. You can determine whether any of these are priorities, but most of them are either starters or heavy rotation players for us. Mack and Hooker could easily be gone, but there's a chance they get re-signed on smaller one year deals, which eats into cap space. Let's say we keep three, out of this group of twelve, and it equals another $15-20m in 2021 cap space. We're already down to $15-20m remaining.

 

Here's the kicker: We don't have a QB under contract in 2021, outside of Eason. 

 

So trading for Cooper probably costs us all twelve of those guys up above. 

 

The more long term issue is we have no idea what happens with the cap after 2021. And I'm setting aside the draft pick compensation it would take to get him.

 

An alternative would be to do what the Pats did with Brandin Cooks. Trade for him now, then flip him again in the offseason. Problem is I don't know how many teams are going to be buyers this offseason. With the cap going down, a lot of teams will need to shed payroll.

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

Problem is I don't know how many teams are going to be buyers this offseason. With the cap going down, a lot of teams will need to shed payroll.

This is indeed an underreported aspect of the COVID situation. IMO there will be tons of good players available that wouldn't be available in a normal year but because of the money crunch it's going to force teams to cut some good players to save money. So if we are making a trade for the future... and a huge one at that... it's probably more wise to wait and see what's available for free in the summer. 

 

Also... I still think that until we have our long-term QB sorted out, we must not trade premier picks(1st, 2nd rounders). 

[TonyBungee]

I'm trying to think of the last time a WR was traded mid-season and really made a difference for his new team.  Anyone I'm missing?

[landrus13]

1 minute ago, TonyBungee said:

I'm trying to think of the last time a WR was traded mid-season and really made a difference for his new team.  Anyone I'm missing?

Amari Cooper? Don't really remember what he did in Dallas after the trade.

[will426]

18 hours ago, richard pallo said:

If you want to go all in and try to win the SB just pay the price and get someone like Amari Cooper.  He would be our playmaker for quite a long time.  If the Cowboys lose tonight I think Jerry would do it.  If you want to go cheap then go get a Golden Tate or AJ Green.  You get what you pay for.  Rivers showed today he can hit the deep ball.  Our receiving corp is young and still developing.  We need an experienced WR right away to stay in the hunt.  We are now tied for 1st in the division and now one of the top teams in the conference.  We can win this thing with Rivers.  After today I'm really expecting Ballard to make some kind of move at the deadline.  

Cooper can be single handedly shut down he’s not even the best Wr on his team anymore

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, landrus13 said:

Amari Cooper? Don't really remember what he did in Dallas after the trade.

 

Just 53 catches, 725 yards and 6 TDs in nine games... He was excellent after the trade.

 

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is indeed an underreported aspect of the COVID situation. IMO there will be tons of good players available that wouldn't be available in a normal year but because of the money crunch it's going to force teams to cut some good players to save money. So if we are making a trade for the future... and a huge one at that... it's probably more wise to wait and see what's available for free in the summer. 

 

Also... I still think that until we have our long-term QB sorted out, we must not trade premier picks(1st, 2nd rounders). 

 

I was okay with the Buckner trade because he's a premier player at a high value position, but I don't want to do that two years in a row.

[coming on strong]

14 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

Ballard needs to call Ryan Pace and ask him what would it take to acquire Allen Robinson. Had another solid game today and is on pace for 1000 yards.

The bears will not trade their only good young wr

[zibby43]

7 hours ago, w87r said:

So he can have a cap hit of $25m for those 4 years. Seems like a great idea.  <----- sarcasm.

 

Seriously, Ballard would never make such a foolish move.

 

Can we drop it already.

 

Your context made the situation worse not better. 

We get it.  You’re opposed.  It’s not like I was arguing vehemently in support of the deal.  I was just throwing out the details of how the contract could be handled, for either side to use in the debate.  I didn’t say it made it better, or worse.  

 

On a side note, this is a message board.  And myself and other posters are talking about a topic in the appropriate thread.

 

I think you’re a great contributor, but you don’t need to make your position to be - “I am right, so everyone else needs to shut up and drop it on the topic” -  irrespective of where other posters fall on the issue.    
 

You’re better than that man.

[PrincetonTiger]

@Superman

  the payroll shedding that you were discussing is happening right now in MLB