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Colts need to trade for a WR

JediXMan

By JediXMan
in Colts Football

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Rally5 Practice Squad

Rally5

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, chad72 said:

Just pay the price and get A J Green for a 5th if he is healthy, the Bengals know they won't get much more for a guy they will lose in free agency anyways. At least he can run more routes than John Ross. They have Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd and other young TEs to lean on.

I watched him closely in our game v Cincy, he's lost a couple steps, he's not the same guy, separation no longer comes easy which isn't what we need.  There are better opportunities for us I think if we do go shopping.  I'd start in Dallas with Cooper.

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Superman

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1 hour ago, Rally5 said:

I watched him closely in our game v Cincy, he's lost a couple steps, he's not the same guy, separation no longer comes easy which isn't what we need.  There are better opportunities for us I think if we do go shopping.  I'd start in Dallas with Cooper.

 

So much of our passing game is rubs, mesh, and misdirection, we don't really utilize route running and separation very much. Maybe that's because we don't have any polished route runners, outside of TY. 

 

Still upset that Parris Campbell got hurt...

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w87r

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3 hours ago, zibby43 said:


We get it.  You’re opposed.  It’s not like I was arguing vehemently in support of the deal.  I was just throwing out the details of how the contract could be handled, for either side to use in the debate.  I didn’t say it made it better, or worse.  

 

On a side note, this is a message board.  And myself and other posters are talking about a topic in the appropriate thread.

 

I think you’re a great contributor, but you don’t need to make your position to be - “I am right, so everyone else needs to shut up and drop it on the topic” -  irrespective of where other posters fall on the issue.    
 

You’re better than that man.

It's not even about being right or opposed to it. It would be great to have a good #1.

 

I just think I laid out the reasons why:

1. It wont happen

2. Why as Colts fans we shouldn't want it to happen.

 

$20m or $25m is to much to pay for a WR with the way the team is structured and with what extensions are coming up.

 

Just think we need to be realistic with expectations. We probably wont even make a move so it is a moot point.

 

If we keep Rivers, it has been proven he spreads the ball around and it doesn't make sense to pay 1 guy that much or is it even a possibility. Could afford 2-3 good WRs for that kind of money.

 

If we let Rivers go, and go with Eason, while it might be feasible to pay Cooper. Money would still be tough to make work. It still doesn't make sense to pay a WR that much money as we likely wouldn't be contending in first couple years under Eason.

 

 

Appreciate the words, and apologize for how my thoughts have been perceived. Just don't see the point in continuing to talk about it, but feel free(not that you need my permission) to continue to discuss it.

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zibby43

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30 minutes ago, w87r said:

It's not even about being right or opposed to it. It would be great to have a good #1.

 

I just think I laid out the reasons why:

1. It wont happen

2. Why as Colts fans we shouldn't want it to happen.

 

$20m or $25m is to much to pay for a WR with the way the team is structured and with what extensions are coming up.

 

Just think we need to be realistic with expectations. We probably wont even make a move so it is a moot point.

 

If we keep Rivers, it has been proven he spreads the ball around and it doesn't make sense to pay 1 guy that much or is it even a possibility. Could afford 2-3 good WRs for that kind of money.

 

If we let Rivers go, and go with Eason, while it might be feasible to pay Cooper. Money would still be tough to make work. It still doesn't make sense to pay a WR that much money as we likely wouldn't be contending in first couple years under Eason.

 

 

Appreciate the words, and apologize for how my thoughts have been perceived. Just don't see the point in continuing to talk about it, but feel free(not that you need my permission) to continue to discuss it.

 

I never even advocated for signing Cooper.  See below.

 

18 hours ago, zibby43 said:

Anyway, I put any WR deal at 10% or less.  I think Ballard is content to continue to plug anonymous guys into those spots.  I could see him maybe picking up some edge depth.  I'd put that at 10% or less as well, though. 

 

I was merely pointing out that the $20m could be spread over 5 years.  And I made two posts about the details, and the contracts coming off the books in the coming years.

 

That's it.  So I thought the "Seems like a great idea - sarcasm," "Seriously, Ballard would never make such a foolish move," and "Can we drop it already" were all pretty strong statements for what I thought were some relatively neutral posts on my behalf.

 

I mean, if I would've been the one to bring up Cooper and I rattled off a bunch of emotional posts stating that this was the only make-or-break move the Colts needed to make, I could see that.

 

Not trying to be overly sensitive, but I was taken a bit off guard by the strength/intensity of your language lol. 

 

Anyway, I'm down with being realistic, but I think we're all a little optimistic right now re: the skill talent, particularly given who the Colts have played. 

 

The Colts don't have a single WR right now that can just go out there and consistently win a match-up without being schemed open.  That can be schemed around, but at a certain point, if there are any more skill position injuries, the Colts are going to be hurting for depth with the guys they have, and Rivers isn't at the level he used to be where he can elevate any guy off the street. 

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w87r

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28 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

I never even advocated for signing Cooper.  See below.

 

 

I was merely pointing out that the $20m could be spread over 5 years.  And I made two posts about the details, and the contracts coming off the books in the coming years.

 

That's it.  So I thought the "Seems like a great idea - sarcasm," "Seriously, Ballard would never make such a foolish move," and "Can we drop it already" were all pretty strong statements for what I thought were some relatively neutral posts on my behalf.

 

I mean, if I would've been the one to bring up Cooper and I rattled off a bunch of emotional posts stating that this was the only make-or-break move the Colts needed to make, I could see that.

 

Not trying to be overly sensitive, but I was taken a bit off guard by the strength/intensity of your language lol. 

 

Anyway, I'm down with being realistic, but I think we're all a little optimistic right now re: the skill talent, particularly given who the Colts have played. 

 

The Colts don't have a single WR right now that can just go out there and consistently win a match-up without being schemed open.  That can be schemed around, but at a certain point, if there are any more skill position injuries, the Colts are going to be hurting for depth with the guys they have, and Rivers isn't at the level he used to be where he can elevate any guy off the street. 

Fair enough.

 

I apologize for looping you with the other posters.

 

There were just quite a few post about it prior, with myself and Superman explaining ramifications. Got you mixed up with them.

 

As far as spreading it out over 4 years, it really would do more harm than of we just kept it at $20m. Might free up some money next year but would have a $25m WR for 4 years after that and that would cripple us moving forward.

 

Again, I apologize for lumping you in with other posters that were advocating for the move.

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Moosejawcolt

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22 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I read this somewhere, so don't know how reliable this is, but with Cooper, I heard it's possible next year to take that $20m and convert it into a signing bonus, and split it over four years.

 

In that case, the contract becomes much more digestible.  Cowboys would require a compensatory pick in the 3-5 range in exchange. 

 

Edit:

 

Found the details (it's from the Dallas Morning News, a reliable source):

 

"Any trade partner might wince at Cooper’s fully guaranteed $20 million salary in 2021, as all NFL clubs brace for the aforementioned tightened cap. There is an easy workaround, though. That team can convert most of his $20 million salary into a signing bonus, spreading the hit across four years (or even five with the addition of an option year)."

 

"The trade partner would need to place $20 million into escrow and provide the Cowboys suitable draft-pick compensation to complete the deal. That draft compensation would fortify Dallas' 2021 stockpile when it can expect at least an extra third-, fourth- and fifth-round compensatory draft pick, according to the Over the Cap website."

U want to pay 20 million to a player who takes himself out of games? A player who has 100 yards one game and 10 the next ..so on and so on?

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Moosejawcolt

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9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think anything happens, either. Hilton's injury makes me nervous, so maybe a there's a slight chance something happens. But I have it at less than 10%. 

 

As for the Cooper contract situation, I'm saying the Colts don't have spare cap space in the future. They're projected to have $76m in cap space in 2021. I expect them to do new deals for Leonard and Nelson in the offseason, so that probably goes down to less than $50m. The next draft class is $15m. 

 

Hilton, Houston, Autry, Hooker, Mack, Rhodes, Day, Burton, Walker, Johnson, Stewart, Muhammad are all unrestricted FAs. You can determine whether any of these are priorities, but most of them are either starters or heavy rotation players for us. Mack and Hooker could easily be gone, but there's a chance they get re-signed on smaller one year deals, which eats into cap space. Let's say we keep three, out of this group of twelve, and it equals another $15-20m in 2021 cap space. We're already down to $15-20m remaining.

 

Here's the kicker: We don't have a QB under contract in 2021, outside of Eason. 

 

So trading for Cooper probably costs us all twelve of those guys up above. 

 

The more long term issue is we have no idea what happens with the cap after 2021. And I'm setting aside the draft pick compensation it would take to get him.

 

An alternative would be to do what the Pats did with Brandin Cooks. Trade for him now, then flip him again in the offseason. Problem is I don't know how many teams are going to be buyers this offseason. With the cap going down, a lot of teams will need to shed payroll.

R u for paying Nelson a boat load of cash? Everyone talks about how he is a difference  maker and his presence makes the line better. I am not sure I would pay him the money he will command. The O line is not performing at an elite level.

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danlhart87

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43 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

R u for paying Nelson a boat load of cash? Everyone talks about how he is a difference  maker and his presence makes the line better. I am not sure I would pay him the money he will command. The O line is not performing at an elite level.

Letting Q walk would be very stupid. Hes far and away the best player on the team and in the NFL as far as OL in general.

 

He alone has helped improve this OL but I guess you would be ok going back to the line that essentially forced Luck to retire.

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Moosejawcolt

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1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Letting Q walk would be very stupid. Hes far and away the best player on the team and in the NFL as far as OL in general.

 

He alone has helped improve this OL but I guess you would be ok going back to the line that essentially forced Luck to retire.

U going to pay a guard 18 million or so that makes up an O line that is 1st in pass protection and last in run blocking?  I dont see as he is having that much of an effect on the  O lines performance.

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danlhart87

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3 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U going to pay a guard 18 million or so that makes up an O line that is 1st in pass protection and last in run blocking?  I dont see as he is having that much of an effect on the  O lines performance.

I would do whatever it takes to keep Q. He has helped turned the OL around. 

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2006Coltsbestever

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

R u for paying Nelson a boat load of cash? Everyone talks about how he is a difference  maker and his presence makes the line better. I am not sure I would pay him the money he will command. The O line is not performing at an elite level.

You come up with the funniest stuff, letting him walk would be the worst mistake we make lmao 

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Superman

Posted
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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

R u for paying Nelson a boat load of cash? Everyone talks about how he is a difference  maker and his presence makes the line better. I am not sure I would pay him the money he will command. The O line is not performing at an elite level.

 

50 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U going to pay a guard 18 million or so that makes up an O line that is 1st in pass protection and last in run blocking?  I dont see as he is having that much of an effect on the  O lines performance.

 

Just grin and bear it. He's a top five OL in the league, and before he got here the Colts suffered through bad guard play for a decade. 

 

As for the OL being last in run blocking, that's not on Nelson. You not seeing him have an effect on the OL performance is kind of a crazy thing to think and say. He's easily the most reliable player on the entire roster. Imagine how the line would play if Nelson wasn't on the team. 

 

If the Colts were going to let a critical part of the OL walk, it probably would have been Kelly, not Nelson. They just made Kelly the highest paid center in the league. Get ready for Nelson to be the highest paid guard. 

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GoColts8818

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U going to pay a guard 18 million or so that makes up an O line that is 1st in pass protection and last in run blocking?  I dont see as he is having that much of an effect on the  O lines performance.

I am not going to pay anything and neither is anyone here.  Do I think irsay and Ballard will pay it?  Yes.

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Moosejawcolt

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23 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

Just grin and bear it. He's a top five OL in the league, and before he got here the Colts suffered through bad guard play for a decade. 

 

As for the OL being last in run blocking, that's not on Nelson. You not seeing him have an effect on the OL performance is kind of a crazy thing to think and say. He's easily the most reliable player on the entire roster. Imagine how the line would play if Nelson wasn't on the team. 

 

If the Colts were going to let a critical part of the OL walk, it probably would have been Kelly, not Nelson. They just made Kelly the highest paid center in the league. Get ready for Nelson to be the highest paid guard. 

Thats a lot of money to put into an O line that is average

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crazycolt1

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I didnt say let him walk. I would definitely have a ceiling on how much i pay him.

I'm pretty sure Ballard will have a number in mind. It seems he always does. 

The importance of Big Q being signed even rises if Castonzo is done at the end of this season or the end of his contract. 

IMO it would serve a rookie well to play next to Big Q,

 

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danlhart87

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3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I'm pretty sure Ballard will have a number in mind. It seems he always does. 

The importance of Big Q being signed even rises if Castonzo is done at the end of this season or the end of his contract. 

IMO it would serve a rookie well to play next to Big Q,

 

I think ultimately Rivers will come back with LT drafted high next year to either groom for 22 or completely take over in 21.

 

22 will be the season Colts start Eason or go all in for QB.

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crazycolt1

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1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

I think ultimately Rivers will come back with LT drafted high next year to either groom for 22 or completely take over in 21.

 

22 will be the season Colts start Eason or go all in for QB.

Sounds logical to me. 

Unless Ballard does something we haven't thought of? :dunno:

The Buckner trade kinda makes me think he is capable of doing that. 

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