Reggie Wayne blames Grigson for the Colts play

[RockThatBlue]

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/reggie-wayne-colts-big-problem-is-front-office-decisions/

 

A good little read of some things he said. Hard to disagree with him (though I wouldn't call Pagano clean either in this mess)

 

Thoughts?

[GoColts8818]

The 2013 and 2014 draft and free agency classes are large part of the reason why this team is in the spot it is now and that falls on Grigson.

 

with that said, I think Irsay judged Grigson for those mistakes last off-season and elected to keep him anyways.  He has rebounded with back-to-back good draft classes so I don't think Irsay will fire Grigson based on the mistakes he made in 2013 and 2014 because I think Irsay already judged him for those and Grigson looks to be improving.

[AZColt11]

I can't refute what he is saying.  Like in another thread here, I DO think Grigs has done better with the draft the last couple of years, particularly this one so far.  FA has still been a bit of a mess for him with more misses than hits.  I like Adams, Davis, Jackson, and Gore (the jury is still out on Robinson IMHO).  Other than that, it's difficult to find many FA's that have really worked out.  He is still a relative noob at this so perhaps he continues on this trend and drafts well and the team is much better in a couple of years?  But will Irsay wait that long to find out?  I dunno about that.

[IinD]

I believe it more coming from one of our all time greats.

 

Although annoyed like everyone, I feel both the HC/GM leashes are very short this time around. Jim was talking MULTIPLE trophies with Andrew. Past decision making by Jim keeps me hopeful he'll know if/when it's time to pull the trigger on these two.

 

 

[RockThatBlue]

2 minutes ago, IinD said:

I believe it more coming from one of our all time greats.

 

Although annoyed like everyone, I feel both the HC/GM leashes are very short this time around. Jim was talking MULTIPLE trophies with Andrew. Past decision making by Jim keeps me hopeful he'll know if/when it's time to pull the trigger on these two.

 

 

I don't think Irsay will keep them around if we go 6-10 or worse. 

 

Even though Pagano and Grigson were signed to 4 year deals, I'm sure during those negotiations, showing improvement this year was a must. And so far they are failing that. 

[IinD]

Just now, RockThatBlue said:

I don't think Irsay will keep them around if we go 6-10 or worse. 

 

Even though Pagano and Grigson were signed to 4 year deals, I'm sure during those negotiations, showing improvement this year was a must. And so far they are failing that. 

Absolutely agree.

 

This fan base is clearly not sold on them. Media will ratchet up and he'll be forced to make a move.

[braveheartcolt]

I assume Wayne is banking on Grigson being gone by the time he gets inducted into the ROH....

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

I can't refute what he is saying.  Like in another thread here, I DO think Grigs has done better with the draft the last couple of years, particularly this one so far.  FA has still been a bit of a mess for him with more misses than hits.  I like Adams, Davis, Jackson, and Gore (the jury is still out on Robinson IMHO).  Other than that, it's difficult to find many FA's that have really worked out.  He is still a relative noob at this so perhaps he continues on this trend and drafts well and the team is much better in a couple of years?  But will Irsay wait that long to find out?  I dunno about that.

 

Agreed. Because of that, I think Pagano's seat is way hotter than Grigson's at this point. I don't buy for a second that these 2 are "joined at the hip," I think he'll fire Pagano at the end of the season if it stays on it's current path.

[Gyworks]

It is what it is, the owner kept the GM and the HC. Their job is to turn this season around. Maybe we should withhold the blame until we are out of playoff contention. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Grigson hasn't drafted a SB caliber team which is fact but we were Very Good in Luck's first 3 seasons and was 1 game away from the SB. We are 1 Defensive stop and an Allen catch from being 3-1. The NFL boils down to what team makes the plays at the end of games, we usually do but have failed 3 times so far so we are 1-3. We even had a chance to win the Denver game so it's not like we are getting killed in any of these games. If we were 3-1 right now nobody would be complaining, we are just not executing late in games like we normally do. We will see if that changes? Cant blame Grigson for the dumb penalties and drop passes that keep happening. We let the Lions drive down the field in 37 seconds and win the game and Allen drops a pass - not Grigson's fault in either case.

[JPFolks]

2 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I don't think Irsay will keep them around if we go 6-10 or worse. 

 

Even though Pagano and Grigson were signed to 4 year deals, I'm sure during those negotiations, showing improvement this year was a must. And so far they are failing that. 

I still think 8-8 is the absolute worst record he will (or should) tolerate.  Luck would likely win that many or more games with ANY team in a full season, so if it is worse than that, heads should and likely will roll.  It may still require a winning record to avoid carnage.

[JPFolks]

3 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/reggie-wayne-colts-big-problem-is-front-office-decisions/

 

A good little read of some things he said. Hard to disagree with him (though I wouldn't call Pagano clean either in this mess)

 

Thoughts?

I love Reggie and have been a vocal supporter of his, but I think Grigs is the only reason he didn't get his final year and he remembers that Grigs didn't want him in the first place, he wanted Garcon and only came begging back to Reggie when Garcon said no thanks and he was in a bind.  So Reggie wouldn't be the most unbiased person to ask who is at fault.  (Even though I agree with the end point).  

[chrisfarley]

4 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

I assume Wayne is banking on Grigson being gone by the time he gets inducted into the ROH....

he's not a fan.  can't blame him. he does know a thing or two about football so his opinion matters

[Everyone]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000715591/Are-we-too-quick-to-give-Andrew-Luck-a-pass

[DougDew]

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

The 2013 and 2014 draft and free agency classes are large part of the reason why this team is in the spot it is now and that falls on Grigson.

 

with that said, I think Irsay judged Grigson for those mistakes last off-season and elected to keep him anyways.  He has rebounded with back-to-back good draft classes so I don't think Irsay will fire Grigson based on the mistakes he made in 2013 and 2014 because I think Irsay already judged him for those and Grigson looks to be improving.

Adding:  I think the 2013 draft class throughout the NFL has been proven to be rather weak.  I think many of the players drafted in the 1st round are not playing as expected.  Can't judge Grigson in a vacuum without looking at the universe of all players drafted in those classes.

 

Same goes for his successes the past two years.  He may have benefitted from strong college draft classes.

[theanarchist]

6 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/reggie-wayne-colts-big-problem-is-front-office-decisions/

 

A good little read of some things he said. Hard to disagree with him (though I wouldn't call Pagano clean either in this mess)

 

Thoughts?

Reggie is right on and when you look  up and down this roster the proof is in the pudding. Grigson has blown so much money in FA on washed up players and whiffed on too many draft picks. In my opinion he also blundered this off season by signing Dwayne Allen. Im sick and tired of watching this guy drop passes he should catch and then get hurt by the 6th game and and get put on IR. You have to sign the players that are going to make a difference and keep those players. Dwayne may be a good guy but in my opinion he does not make a difference and he's being outplayed right now by Jack Doyle. Sorry this turned into a Dwayne Allen rant.

[pgt_rob]

Yep he's right. I think I was the only one hoping that we would work something out with Bethea to stay here. He was always healthy and played decent. Herremans, Cole, Richardson, Werner, Holmes, DHB, AJ, Hakeem Nicks, Aubrayo Franklin, Ricky Jean, LaRon Landry, Donald Thomas, Toler, McGlynn, Satele, Tom Zbikowski and some more that I've probably missed were all not good. I think we got the most we could out of Trent Richardson, Greg Toler, Mike McGlynn, and Samson Satele though. We seemed more competitive then than we have in the past 2 years. Pretty sad in my opinion.

[RollerColt]

28 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

Dwayne may be a good guy but in my opinion he does not make a difference and he's being outplayed right now by Jack Doyle. Sorry this turned into a Dwayne Allen rant.

Not to mention he cursed us last year with his "Dream Team" comment. 

[RollerColt]

9 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Yep he's right. I think I was the only one hoping that we would work something out with Bethea to stay here. 

You weren't alone. I was quite sad to see him go. 

[Iancolts]

Reggie Wayne is right.  He was on the colts team when we started to rebuild the monster.  Gotta trust in what he says I mean the man was on the football field locker room meetings etc.... Grigson got so much praise in his first year and then he got more praises because of his team friendly contracts in FA.  Grigson misfired on so many FA it's crazy he still has a job. The Colts was top 5 in salary cap room we were top 5!!!  We had a bunch of money to throw around and still had Luck on a rookie contract plus all of our other offensive rookies on cheap contract.  We won 11-5 in Luck first year!!  And what does Grigson do throw all that away because he thought he can get old below average players to play like they are all stars.  Then he misfires on the draft I'm not talking about 1 or two picks but he completely ignores what Pagano needed and drafted players that fit his system last I checked Grigson is a GM so I'm not sure what system he runs in the front office. 

[lollygagger8]

Can we hire Reggie as our WR coach? 

 

Please? 

[SilentHill]

41 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Can we hire Reggie as our WR coach? 

 

Please? 

 

Do you think Pagano would hire him after he just slammed the front office on national media?

[James Harden]

4 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

Do you think Pagano would hire him after he just slammed the front office on national media?

I'm so happy he did. I want the whole world to know about our stinking problem which starts at the front office. Mr. Irsay now is staring down Grigs and Pagano like a hawk. If nothing less than a Superbowl appearance this season, I hope we clean house.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, James Harden said:

I'm so happy he did. I want the whole world to know about our stinking problem which starts at the front office. Mr. Irsay now is staring down Grigs and Pagano like a hawk. If nothing less than a Superbowl appearance this season, I hope we clean house.

We will probably go 8-8 and win the Division so everyone will stay intact  

[tikyle]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 we were Very Good in Luck's first 3 seasons and was 1 game away from the SB. We are 1 Defensive stop and an Allen catch from being 3-1.

First off this team was not very good in Luck's first 3 seasons.  We got destroyed by NE and PIT all of those years.  We got lucky being matched up with the Broncos and a hurt Manning to advance to the AFCCG.  We got lucky playing a Chiefs team that lost like 4 starters (and their best player Charles) during our playoff game where they were up like 4 TDs on us.

 

This team was a pig with lipstick on it for Luck's first 3 years.  Outside of the AFC South this team was under .500 for Luck's first three years.  That is not a very good team.

 

And you talking about being 3-1.  We are one SD collapse away from being 0-4.  There has been no game where we have played 4 quarters of solid football.  There has been no game (outside of the Detroit game) where we didn't have a back breaking TO.  This team is what we thought it was.  A terrible lackluster roster that's in a division that has finally caught up with it.  And those teams should have caught up with us drafting top 10 for all those years, most having had a top 3 pick each in there.  They didn't miss on many of their early picks (Hopkins, Clowney, Mariotta, Robinson, Bortles?, Fowler, Ramsey, Yeldon, etc.  We have in those years what to show Richardson, Bjorner, Dorsett, Kelly and Luck).

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, tikyle said:

First off this team was not very good in Luck's first 3 seasons.  We got destroyed by NE and PIT all of those years.  We got lucky being matched up with the Broncos and a hurt Manning to advance to the AFCCG.  We got lucky playing a Chiefs team that lost like 4 starters (and their best player Charles) during our playoff game where they were up like 4 TDs on us.

 

This team was a pig with lipstick on it for Luck's first 3 years.  Outside of the AFC South this team was under .500 for Luck's first three years.  That is not a very good team.

 

And you talking about being 3-1.  We are one SD collapse away from being 0-4.  There has been no game where we have played 4 quarters of solid football.  There has been no game (outside of the Detroit game) where we didn't have a back breaking TO.  This team is what we thought it was.  A terrible lackluster roster that's in a division that has finally caught up with it.  And those teams should have caught up with us drafting top 10 for all those years, most having had a top 3 pick each in there.  They didn't miss on many of their early picks (Hopkins, Clowney, Mariotta, Robinson, Bortles?, Fowler, Ramsey, Yeldon, etc.  We have in those years what to show Richardson, Bjorner, Dorsett, Kelly and Luck).

It's a myth the Division is better. Everyone keeps saying the Division is much better. Where is it better? Jags and Titans are 1-3 and the Texans are getting ready to get smoked by the Vikings and Broncos and they have no Watt. There may not be a team finish better than 8-8 in our Division. We will see. Texans have beaten the Bears, Titans, and a Chiefs team playing like doo doo. When they played a real team they got exposed in Foxboro 27-0. All I am saying is lets see how the season plays out. We are beating ourselves in these games so far this season with crucial dumb penalties and key drop passes. Ok we could be 0-4 but we also could easily be 3-1, the Jags nor the Lions are better teams but when you shoot yourself in the foot playing dumb you lose to bad teams.

 

-By the way you are Good when you go 11-5 3 years in a row. I don't want to hear any excuses we beat up on a weak Division or beat Denver when Peyton wasn't 100%. We weren't better than Patriots, WOW who has been?

[The Old Crow]

There are a couple of other factors at play. I've heard a lot about individual draft picks that Grigson got, but are these picks actually jelling into a perennial winning team. He was already playing with house money having a franchise QB like Luck available. Is he putting a team with good chemistry around Luck ?

 

The second factor is the field turf conditions at Lucas Oil stadium. I've watched the Ravens and Colts over the last few years get depleted by injuries. The Ravens went back to natural grass, and injuries have plummeted this year. Not sure if the Colts can do that in a retractable dome, but I think natural grass dissipates injuries. Many of Grigson's FA picks have been plagued by injuries. 

[lollygagger8]

32 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

Do you think Pagano would hire him after he just slammed the front office on national media?

 

Reggie didn't slam Pagano though.......

 

[indy1888]

Sounds like Trent Cole was not too fond of Reggie's remarks.  Got his feelings hurt it appears. Get over it Trent.

 

And the closest Reggie has came to criticizing Chuck would be his comments of how Luck needs to be in the hurry up more often.

[jskinnz]

9 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/reggie-wayne-colts-big-problem-is-front-office-decisions/

 

A good little read of some things he said. Hard to disagree with him (though I wouldn't call Pagano clean either in this mess)

 

Thoughts?

 

I have a problem with laying the blame in one place.  There is enough of it to go around.

 

Grigson's draft and free agency swings and misses in 2013 and 2014 have absolutely hindered development of this team.  Some of his decision making this year is iffy - the whole Freeman thing.  But on balance I think he has gotten more out of his recent acquisitions.  

 

Pagano and staff certainly need to be better.  The game / clock management issues are still there - no need to rehash those.  I think game-plans should be better.  Just listen to Venturi talk about defensive strategies in the Lions and Jags game.  Some basic Football 101 stuff that they have yet to either figure out or just plain ignore.  

The players are certainly not blameless either.  Luck needs to be better with decision making and execution.  Castonzo certainly needs his head removed from where it seems to currently reside.  And Mathis is giving them nothing, although he is likely just on the losing side of Father Time.  

 

Mucho blame to go around.

[OffensivelyPC]

8 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Reggie didn't slam Pagano though.......

 

He might have if he had never played for him.  It's not like he has to stick his neck out there.  There's so much blame to go around, he can sit back and let someone else target Pagano, lol.

[lollygagger8]

2 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

He might have if he had never played for him.  It's not like he has to stick his neck out there.  There's so much blame to go around, he can sit back and let someone else target Pagano, lol.

 

Agree! 

 

[jchandler7]

42 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

Do you think Pagano would hire him after he just slammed the front office on national media?

I bet deep down Pagano would agree with Reggie. Reggie bashed Grigson not Pagano. I'd say Pagano would sure like a better roster to work with as well. Pagano takes alot of heat for sticking up for his players and talking about how much talent/grit they have but i guarentee you half of it is just coach talk. This is why he has so much respect in the locker room. But if he had it totally his way I'd say the roster would look alot different.

[jvan1973]

9 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

I assume Wayne is banking on Grigson being gone by the time he gets inducted into the ROH....

He probably doesn't care.  

[jvan1973]

56 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

 

Do you think Pagano would hire him after he just slammed the front office on national media?

Pagano would.   I doubt grigson would though

[braveheartcolt]

I blame Reggie for getting injured in 2013, and therefore costing us a Super Bowl. See, easy to lay blame on others......

[krunk]

After Reggie Wayne called Trent Cole useless, the Colts OLB told the ex-WR “don't use my name ever again.”… https://t.co/gD7KRuXPam

— Jordan Heck (@JordanHeckFF) Oct 05, 2016

[ColtsBlueFL]

9 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

I don't think Irsay will keep them around if we go 6-10 or worse. 

 

Even though Pagano and Grigson were signed to 4 year deals, I'm sure during those negotiations, showing improvement this year was a must. And so far they are failing that. 

 

While I'm sure there were talks about how to get better, Irsay looks long term as well as short term.  He owns the team and won't get fired.  So long term viability must always be on a burner. Coaches and GM's are on short term contracts, their timeline is much shorter and decisions based on that, even it it could hinder long term plans.

 

The extension given to Pagano/Grigson tells me Irsay is prepared to let them right the flailing ship, even if it takes another year or two in the draft, and roster adjustments.   I'll bet there is no 'minimum performance guarantee' of any type in either Grigson's or Pagano's contract extension that allows them to be let go without any further compensation, either.  Coaches and GM's can't / won't sign such, as they do not get signing and/or other bonus money up front. Much too risky for their livelihood. Besides, incentives are usually for reaching (an unexpected) upward level of performance, not so much for failing to perform to them. 

 

OTOH, I think Al Davis fired a coach (Kiffin?) for cause (lying and insubordination) and tried to deny payment on the contract for those reasons...  and Kiffin lost in a grievance filing later due to a "stunning lack of concern" for the terms of his contract and for the rules of the club.

 

So unless Grigson and / or Pagano make frequent public criticisms of the organization and some of its players (tarnishing of the Brand), I doubt denial of payment for cause can be proven. a 6-10 record won't do it.

[Defjamz26]

So it isn't just the fans who think Grigson is the problem. Even a former player sees the missed draft picks and bad FA moves.

[lollygagger8]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

After Reggie Wayne called Trent Cole useless, the Colts OLB told the ex-WR “don't use my name ever again.”… https://t.co/gD7KRuXPam

— Jordan Heck (@JordanHeckFF) Oct 05, 2016