Andrew Luck partial shoulder subluxation (Merged)

[backshoulderfade]

Luck is dressed for practice like normal.

[OLD FAN MAN]

Now would be a good time to remind everyone:

 

#FireGrigson

 

Carry on....

did grigs failure to fix the o-line destroy luck?

[deedub75]

Well, if Tanney gets elevated to the active roster then Luck is probably in bad shape.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Well, if Tanney gets elevated to the active roster then Luck is probably in bad shape.

It sounds like he is practicing today so that could be a good sign.

[John Waylon]

So you think it's a serious shoulder injury or what?

 

I can't say. I just know that when I heard Pagano say he was "supremely confident" last week that raised a huge red flag to me right there. Pagano never uses that kind of language. No one does. That is smokescreen stuff. When asked if someone will play when injured and they eventually do, Chuck's answer is usually pretty straight forward. "He'll be ready", "He'll play". "Supremely confident" to all the other ranges of confident Chuck was last week turned out to be a wash. 

 

Since the only medical info we're getting right now is from the team, I'll believe there isn't more than we're being told when I see him back on the field taking snaps. 

 

The waiving of Johnson today was a good sign. But we also didn't sign him until the 10th hour last week, so he could easily be back on the roster by Thursday. It's also worth noting that the roster spot opened there was to bring back Saun Prater as Jalil Brown was injured Sunday. 

 

We'll see how it plays out, but right now if this team told me the sky was blue I'd look out the window just to make sure. 

[DougDew]

You don't get a bruised shoulder from an awkward throwing motion.

Boxers get partial separations from swinging and missing....once or repeatedly.

[DougDew]

I'd love to see evidence of this.

That it was from an impact on a shoulder that has not been already stretched? Me too.

Pags held him out of practice because throwing hard can cause the soft-ish tissues that hold the shoulder in place to stretch further. Its the strectched tissues that need to heal.

I'd like to see the impact play where he got hurt, where he was fine before then inaccurate afterwards.

[John Waylon]

What franchise would admit tension between coach and GM?

 

Sure. 

 

But a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie, no matter how many people tell it. 

 

Irsay's emphatic denial of tension did little to slow the talk down. 

 

The Luck situation has taken 99% of the focus away from that situation.

[Smash Mouth]

Its a long season and we are now leading the South Division.  I would seriously consider resting him for another game with a bye week and the Pats looming.

[RockThatBlue]

He's practicing.

[NewColtsFan]

Eh. I'm skeptical of believing the team.

I mean, they deny the reports of a rift between Pagano and Grigson, they insisted Luck would play last week (and I'm positive they knew all along he would not).

It also wouldn't be the first time that we've been light with the truth surrounding injuries. Who remembers Peyton's bursa sac? Or his neck injury for that matter? We also hemmed and hawed with the knee injury Marvin Harrison had in 07 for three quarters of a season.

Different regimes, sure, but the tendencies look awfully familiar.

 

There are 32 teams in the NFL.

 

All 32 teams play fast and loose with injuries.     Seriously.

 

NONE OF THEM tell the complete truth unless it's obvious and they have nothing to lose.   Example, if Luck broke a leg and he was out rest of the year,  THEN you can tell the truth.     Otherwise, all teams keep information in-house and away from the opposition.

 

When did you hear about Mathis' 10 operations on his Achilles?    When it got leaked out.   THEN the Colts fessed up.

 

Otherwise information is strictly controlled as tightly as the team can......

[John Waylon]

There are 32 teams in the NFL.

All 32 teams play fast and loose with injuries. Seriously.

NONE OF THEM tell the complete truth unless it's obvious and they have nothing to lose. Example, if Luck broke a leg and he was out rest of the year, THEN you can tell the truth. Otherwise, all teams keep information in-house and away from the opposition.

When did you hear about Mathis' 10 operations on his Achilles? When it got leaked out. THEN the Colts fessed up.

Otherwise information is strictly controlled as tightly as the team can......

Yep. This thing has been trending in a dishonest direction for almost a week now.

[GoColts8818]

Tanney had been here about 5 days and hes not a Vet. Johnson is a Vet and I believe thats why they wanted yesterday. Bottom line is, if Luck can'y play, and we don't sign another QB, Tanney is the man.

5 days in the system is better than part of one practice. Again, releasing Johnson to go with Tanney makes no sense. They would have just gone with Tanney Sunday if they thought he was ready. Two more days in all likely hood won't make him ready. I think he's being stashed there in case Luck is hurt again this season.

[deedub75]

It sounds like he is practicing today so that could be a good sign.

He practiced some last week too but didn't throw much.  Is he throwing today in front of the media or is he hidden behind closed doors again?

[RockThatBlue]

He practiced some last week too but didn't throw much. Is he throwing today in front of the media or is he hidden behind closed doors again?

He is throwing passes today.

[The Fish]

My completely uninformed guess is that Matt plays Thursday and there's a pretty decent chance that he goes for the Pats game too. 

 

The season isn't going to be defined in the next few weeks unless Luck gets worse. The risk/reward is far more in favor of letting Luck rest- if he really does need it. If he can go and it's not a bigger thing than usual, then you have to let him play.

[John Waylon]

Why should Grigson be fired for Luck's awkward throwing motion that has been tearing his shoulder apart since college?

 

[masterlock]

I have subluxed both of my shoulders many times, and dislocated both quite a few times. Once it's starts coming out, the joint loosens and it comes out easier next time.

 

I have had three shoulder operations (two on my left, one on my right) due to this.

 

If this turns into a problem for Luck, no amount of weights or shoulder exercises will fix it... he will need an op. The op involves putting little steel anchors around the rotator cuff to stabilise the shoulder. If he has an op, his shoulder will never have the same range of movement again.

 

What I am saying is... everyone should be reasonably worried about this.

Yes, it is worrisome indeed, not only because the ligaments, once stretched, have a very hard time shrinking back to their pre-injury length due to a natural inelasticity of the tissue, but also because the labrum can take a while to get back to 100% even with minor damage. 

 

And since no dye was used in the MRI, it's impossible to know the extent of labral damage. The Colts would be foolish to rush Luck back under any circumstances, considering the long-term implications to the franchise. This is the type of injury that can EASILY become chronic. 

 

"Protect 12".

[IndySouthsider]

Yes, it is worrisome indeed, not only because the ligaments, once stretched, have a very hard time shrinking back to their pre-injury length due to a natural inelasticity of the tissue, but also because the labrum can take a while to get back to 100% even with minor damage.

And since no dye was used in the MRI, it's impossible to know the extent of labral damage. The Colts would be foolish to rush Luck back under any circumstances, considering the long-term implications to the franchise. This is the type of injury that can EASILY become chronic.

"Protect 12".

How the heck do you know that no dye was used?

I mean all these MD's and none decided to be thorough???

[Ryan Pelley]

Uneasy feeling... Chad Pennington.

[scooter4910]

If we break him any more we can ship him off to that secret lab down at Lilly.

 

[NewColtsFan]

Yep. This thing has been trending in a dishonest direction for almost a week now.

 

If it will help,  try not to think of it as being dishonest,  or lying....   perhaps try to think of it as not telling the entire truth?!

 

Seriously.     Teams are not trying to mess with their fans.

 

They're trying to keep information from their opponents.    Teams are nearly paranoid over information.   Information is KING in the NFL.    Everyone wants it,  and when they get it,  they try to keep it to themselves.    So, they don't want Texas or any other opponent to know just how bad Luck is hurt.

 

In its own way,  the clubs are trying to do the right thing....   even if it rubs some the wrong way.

 

Just another perspective to consider....

[John Waylon]

If it will help,  try not to think of it as being dishonest,  or lying....   perhaps try to think of it as not telling the entire truth?!

 

Seriously.     Teams are not trying to mess with their fans.

 

They're trying to keep information from their opponents.    Teams are nearly paranoid over information.   Information is KING in the NFL.    Everyone wants it,  and when they get it,  they try to keep it to themselves.    So, they don't want Texas or any other opponent to know just how bad Luck is hurt.

 

In its own way,  the clubs are trying to do the right thing....   even if it rubs some the wrong way.

 

Just another perspective to consider....

 

I'm not upset or anything. I'm just saying I'm not believing the team line until I see him back out there making the throws. 

[masterlock]

How the heck do you know that no dye was used?

I mean all these MD's and none decided to be thorough???

Because it was reported in the IndyStar:

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/10/05/colts-release-josh-johnson-luck-ready-to-return/73386950/

 

"Dye is usually injected into the shoulder during an to make any damage to the labrum easier to see, but Lintner said it likely wouldn't be used in this case since it tends to further irritate the shoulder, which would delay Luck's recovery and return.

 

'If you’re looking to get this guy to play sooner, I could totally see the logic in (not using dye),' said Lintner, who has not examined Luck."

[akcolt]

Say's he is playing TNF

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000550318/article/colts-plan-to-have-andrew-luck-back-on-tnf

[Defjamz26]

This makes me believe we're going to see another Grigson cover up. I'm thinking back to that article that said the Colts want him to make major changes to his play style.

It makes sense now. They're going to make it seem like it was Luck's fault. That he was being reckless and has to do better at protecting himself.

Man this season isn't going anything like how I thought.

[theanarchist]

Yes, it is worrisome indeed, not only because the ligaments, once stretched, have a very hard time shrinking back to their pre-injury length due to a natural inelasticity of the tissue, but also because the labrum can take a while to get back to 100% even with minor damage. 

 

And since no dye was used in the MRI, it's impossible to know the extent of labral damage. The Colts would be foolish to rush Luck back under any circumstances, considering the long-term implications to the franchise. This is the type of injury that can EASILY become chronic. 

 

"Protect 12".

Yes, my son just had shoulder surgery. They did an arthrogram with the dye. Showed a labral tear. If you have the arthrogram you can figure on a month of pain due to that procedure alone. This is very concerning. Many of us here have been worried about this very thing. Sad, hopefully it isn't that bad.

[AllYouNeedIsLuck]

Sublaxations are fine once healed assuming they don't reoccur, correct?

[Coltsman1788]

Well for what its worth Luck was lobbing screen passes in practice today.  So at least he is more active than he was all of last week.  That's at least something positive. 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6439/andrew-luck

[2006Coltsbestever]

The injury doesn't seem to be as bad as thought. We will see. If all it is, is a sublaxation then he should be fine. Rest and treatment.

[AllYouNeedIsLuck]

Pagano said that its just a bruise so this might not even be legit

[DougDew]

Well for what its worth Luck was lobbing screen passes in practice today.  So at least he is more active than he was all of last week.  That's at least something positive. 

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6439/andrew-luck

The team was practicing screen passes?

Are you sure it was a Colts practice?

[Deathiltis]

This season is a nightmare. Not only does this team look void of talent outside a few players. The best player on the team is literally hurting because of the lack of talent. The people running this organization need to go.

[ricker182]

The team was practicing screen passes?

Are you sure it was a Colts practice?

OK. I laughed.

Although I do not like Andrew throwing screens because it's so easy to get a pick 6 of you wait too long.

[CanuckColt]

Based on the fact that they just let Josh Johnson go it doesn't seem to be a concern that he will miss Thursdays game. If that was the case they need Robinson to be Hasselbeck's backup

They might be lining up a REAL backup for Matt...instead of an emergency backup.

[crazycolt1]

How is it not? Luck has taken the most combined hits and sacks every single year he's been in the league. More times he gets hits=more chances for injury. It's not that hard to figure out.

So is it on Grigson for the hits that Luck brings upon himself by holding the ball to long and or running like he was a running back? He also has a pretty slow delivery.   I do understand that the O-line needs work but a lot of those hits are caused by Luck himself.

[NewEra]

So is it on Grigson for the hits that Luck brings upon himself by holding the ball to long and or running like he was a running back? He also has a pretty slow delivery. I do understand that the O-line needs work but a lot of those hits are caused by Luck himself.

Fire Grigson cause Grigson hired Pep and forced him on Pag. Pep is a horrible OC. He is part reason Luck holds onto the ball so long with his stupid throw deep ball plays. There is nothing wrong with going deep. But if your oline is getting your qb killed you need to hit the short fast stuff like we did with MH and Luck in the 4th against Tenn.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Pagano said that its just a bruise so this might not even be legit

 

No, it is reported it is a true partial separation-  

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/05/report-andrew-luck-has-partial-shoulder-separation/

 

But what hasn't been specified is whether it is an Acromiclavicular ( AC Joint ) separation- (My guess it is, and a Type I or II grade) or a Glenohumeral dislocation. (the shoulder 'ball' popping out of the 'socket'. I don't think this is what Luck is suffering).

 

Type I or II AC joint separation can be painful, but can heal without surgical intervention.  Type III separations are considered complete (as are  IV, V, and VI), and it is recommended that a young athlete (Like a young NFL QB) receive arthroscopic surgical intervention/repair for that.  Type IV and above separation grades, surgery is highly advised.

 

If it was a type I (or Type II) AC joint separation, Luck can likely go, if the pain isn't too bad on Thursday. 

[GoColts8818]

No, it is reported it is a true partial separation-

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/05/report-andrew-luck-has-partial-shoulder-separation/

But what hasn't been specified is whether it is an Acromiclavicular ( AC Joint ) separation- (My guess it is, and a Type I or II grade) or a Glenohumeral dislocation. (the shoulder 'ball' popping out of the 'socket'. I don;t think this is what Luck is suffering).

Type I or II AC joint separation can be painful, but can heal without surgical intervention. Type III separations are considered complete (as are IV, V, and VI), and it is recommended that a young athlete (Like a young NFL QB) receive arthroscopic surgical intervention/repair for that. Type IV and above separation grades, surgery is highly advised.

If it was a type I (or Type II) AC joint separation, Luck can likely go, if the pain isn't too bad on Thursday.

for what it's worth Pagano said today he hadn't heard that and it's just a sore shoulder. With that Pagano never said it wasn't this. I also heard someone else say a bruise would be consentent with this form of injury. So everyone might very well be right here and be being honest. Just to different levels of it.

[JColts72]

What did we all expect with that horrible line we have now and had for years.. Any one of us would have wind up in traction.