If Brandon Flowers is cut...

[Nobody]

Flowers was an elite corner when only guarding one side of the field (aka teams' #2 WR)

So pairing him with an elite corner would be perfect. And him getting cut is likely.

So yes!

[crazycolt1]

I remember that Flowers was shutting down Hilton in the Wild Card game earlier this year, they switched Flowers to cover Hilton and he shut him down until he got injured. Flowers is a very useful CB that can keep up with anyone and it'd be nice to have him on the Colts. Seeing how he covered Hilton, I see how he could be a replacement for Butler, but I love Butler as a nickel corner, so I think Toler would be the right person to replace.

I am not so sure about Toler being replaced. He played with a nagging groin injury but still did his best. He has had the surgery so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Was his hot and cold play due to the injury? I think so. Flowers would be an over priced player on this roster in my opinion.

[Yoshinator]

I am not so sure about Toler being replaced. He played with a nagging groin injury but still did his best. He has had the surgery so lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Was his hot and cold play due to the injury? I think so. Flowers would be an over priced player on this roster in my opinion.

Superman explained Toler's injury to me in great detail, so I understand a little more now. I'd like to see him have an injury-free season with us to show his true potential. Flowers wouldn't be any more overpriced than Toler in my opinion, if he gets released, he'll probably be $5-$6 million a year for a #2 CB, which isn't terrible.

[crazycolt1]

Superman explained Toler's injury to me in great detail, so I understand a little more now. I'd like to see him have an injury-free season with us to show his true potential. Flowers wouldn't be any more overpriced than Toler in my opinion, if he gets released, he'll probably be $5-$6 million a year for a #2 CB, which isn't terrible.

You could be right but I see other teams more than likely paying him on his name alone. I think Grigs is going to take a look see for sure.

[akcolt]

Superman explained Toler's injury to me in great detail, so I understand a little more now. I'd like to see him have an injury-free season with us to show his true potential. Flowers wouldn't be any more overpriced than Toler in my opinion, if he gets released, he'll probably be $5-$6 million a year for a #2 CB, which isn't terrible.

me too but he has never made it more than 14 in his career

[AwesomeAustin]

Flowers does not fit our defensive scheme. We play press man and he is more suited for zone. He is a good player but more suited for a team like the Bucs. Wish him the best of luck!

[Smonroe]

The whole Chiefs defense struggled once they played relevant teams

Bunch of frauds if you ask me

 

You keep using that word, frauds (like when you called my Buckeyes frauds). 

 

In the words of Inigo Montoya, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Valpo2004]

The Chiefs take a $7m cap penalty if they trade him. If they cut him post-June 1, they take a $3m cap penalty in 2014 and a $4m cap penalty in 2015. So I don't think they'd trade him unless they got a really good offer in return. I don't think a 6th or 7th rounder would do it.

 

And if we did trade for him, we'd be assuming his contract, and a $7.25m cap hit in 2014. In that case, he'd have to agree to a restructure, because that's too much for what would essentially be a nickel corner for us.

 

If he does get released, I think he'll have plenty of suitors. There are a lot of teams with cap space now, and a handful of teams that will gain cap space when their post-June 1 releases come off the books. So he might get a more hefty offer. Too much more than $4m/year though, and I don't really think it's worth it for us. There were other players available for less money in free agency that Grigson chose not to go after. Of course, Flowers wouldn't count against the compensatory system, so that might make Grigson more likely to go after him.

 

So would we be responsible for his workout bonus and roster bonus for 2014 then?

 

I doubt Flowers would come here to play if he became a FA.  I just don't think we'd be willing to pay him what he would want.

[throwing BBZ]

I think he's a solid #2, he may of been a #1 at one time in his career, but not anymore. Safety was just a suggestion, I'm not 100% sure how he'd work there. I do think Flowers would be what Toler was supposed to be, and cutting or trading Toler would free up cap space. I just don't see anything in Toler, seems really lazy and full of excuses.

 

 Toler plays all out. You are LOST dude. And want to go with a guy who doesn`t fit AT ALL as a Press corner in OUR D.

 Safety wasn`t a suggestion it was a joke.

[OffensivelyPC]

I don't see him being cut until June 1.  It's only a $3 million hit at that point, as opposed to $7 million.  So waiting 3 days makes a lot of sense.  Is he a fit for our scheme?  Eh.  He was better suited for the cover 2 zone Chiefs ran in 2012.  He could improve in his man coverage, he needs to if he's going to stay with KC, anyway.  But if he gets cut, he's going to get more than we're willing to offer from a team that employs zone corners.  So we're probably chasing the wind here.  As far as the move to FS, no.  He may be able to do that, to which I really express no opinion.  But he'd be splitting time with Landry at the position.  Neither are particularly good in man, and our FS is more of a zone postion while our SS is a run stopping man cover guy. 

[Bluefire4]

No matter how many fans want Flowers the coaches loyalty is with Toler. I don't think we'll get Flowers because I'd be uncomfortable benching either Toler or Butler.

[BlueCollarColts]

If Toler is healthy he is a solid #2 I think people forget that

[Valpo2004]

If Toler is healthy he is a solid #2 I think people forget that

 

The bolded is the key phrase.  

 

He had an injury history before us and lasted less then 4 games and his attempts at coming back during the season were mistakes.

[Mameluc]

I dont know why are we talking of moving him to FS. he is not that old and he hastn played there at all.

 

 

I'd take him tough, specially considering Toler's injury concerns. I dont think he is bad(Toler) but i dont think he is all worldy either, but secondary depth is an issue IMO and he would instantly solidify our CB coorps.

[lollygagger8]

Flowers > Toler. 

 

 

Bring him in please!!! 

[COLTS449]

If Flowers is cut Grigs should definitely go after him. He could be the missing piece to our defense. I don't see us cutting Toler, but he would be a really good number 4 behind Davis, Flowers, and Butler.

[Valpo2004]

If Flowers is cut Grigs should definitely go after him. He could be the missing piece to our defense. I don't see us cutting Toler, but he would be a really good number 4 behind Davis, Flowers, and Butler.

 

Here in lies the problem.  Try to convince a guy that see's himself as a #2 at worst to come to Indy and be our #4 CB.  

 

Uhh nope, not going to happen.

 

Plus he would want a good amount of money, probably more then Toler.  Are we really gonna pay our #4 CB that much money?

[Burls' Kid's]

Depends on the price, but if we could get him at 5-6 million a year...then heck ya! He's a very productive player and much better than toler.

[ProblChld32]

Would def take him in a heartbeat.

[TKnight24]

Here in lies the problem. Try to convince a guy that see's himself as a #2 at worst to come to Indy and be our #4 CB.

Uhh nope, not going to happen.

Plus he would want a good amount of money, probably more then Toler. Are we really gonna pay our #4 CB that much money?

You read that wrong. The poster said Toler would be our #4 CB

[Adonai]

...I don't think Flowers would be "the missing guy" for us.

 

Nor do I.

[Valpo2004]

You read that wrong. The poster said Toler would be our #4 CB

 

Oh I see.  

[Superman]

So would we be responsible for his workout bonus and roster bonus for 2014 then?

 

I doubt Flowers would come here to play if he became a FA.  I just don't think we'd be willing to pay him what he would want.

 

I'm not sure about the dates of the roster bonus and the workout bonus. I'm assuming he's already forfeited the workout bonus by not showing up this week, but maybe not; either way, that's only $250k. The roster bonus probably isn't due until a later date, after June 1; all the reporting about the ramifications of cutting him suggests that the roster bonus hasn't already been paid, and it would be kind of dumb for the pay date of the roster bonus to be June 1 exactly, because then the team would be stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

 

So it's my assumption that any team that traded for Flowers would have to pay the roster bonus of $2m. They might also have to pay the workout bonus of $250k.

 

I also think his asking price in free agency would be too high for us. He was a Pro Bowl alternate last year, and that's a season in which he battled through injuries and got moved around in a new defensive system. A team like Atlanta or Tampa or Detroit might value Flowers more than we would.

[Valpo2004]

I'm not sure about the dates of the roster bonus and the workout bonus. I'm assuming he's already forfeited the workout bonus by not showing up this week, but maybe not; either way, that's only $250k. The roster bonus probably isn't due until a later date, after June 1; all the reporting about the ramifications of cutting him suggests that the roster bonus hasn't already been paid, and it would be kind of dumb for the pay date of the roster bonus to be June 1 exactly, because then the team would be stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

 

So it's my assumption that any team that traded for Flowers would have to pay the roster bonus of $2m. They might also have to pay the workout bonus of $250k.

 

I also think his asking price in free agency would be too high for us. He was a Pro Bowl alternate last year, and that's a season in which he battled through injuries and got moved around in a new defensive system. A team like Atlanta or Tampa or Detroit might value Flowers more than we would.

 

I agree that I don't think he'd be attracted to Indy in FA.  It doesn't sound like his skills fit our system very well and we just don't have that great of a need for a CB that we would be offering him the kind of money that he can get from other teams with more compatible systems and with greater needs at CB.

[Dustin]

He was pretty terrible last year. 

[John Waylon]

Wouldn't he have to pass through waivers first?

He'd never make it to us if he did.

[MrNLM]

Wouldn't he have to pass through waivers first?

He'd never make it to us if he did.

He is a vested veteran... he will bypass waivers and become a FA right out of the gate.

[Coltswarriors]

I honestly don't think Toler was a mistake as others claimed... When healthy he was a solid #2 corner. 

 

Problem is he needs to stay healthy.

 

But yeah, if Flowers comes free we have to grab him.

[In Luck We Trust]

He is probably too small to be a safety.

 

He would probably not be a good fit for us, because he struggled at press coverage last season.

like the rest of our CB's in the second half lol

[akcolt]

I honestly don't think Toler was a mistake as others claimed... When healthy he was a solid #2 corner. 

 

Problem is he needs to stay healthy.

 

But yeah, if Flowers comes free we have to grab him.

Flowers will want to much money coming off a trip to the pro bowl  and doesn't fit our D don't see it happening. Grigs seems pretty happy with what we have going. I am sure better options will pop up if we are looking to sign another CB or S. I just get the feeling the board thinks it is more of a problem than Grigs does. 

[krunk]

Yeah, I don't get how you peg Toler as lazy and full of excuses. He had a torn groin muscle that he obviously shouldn't have been trying to play on, no matter how much his absence annoyed us as fans. He sat out for two month, and when he came back, it still wasn't healed properly. Later, we found out that he needed surgery and put it off so that he could have a chance to make it back before the season was over. That's not lazy. That's actually the mark of a team player.

 

Cutting Toler would free up cap space, but we're not hurting for cap space. 

 

Flowers might be a solid #2, but I don't think he'd be that great of a fit in our defense, because he's better suited for a zone-based defense than a press-man defense (like Asante Samuel; really good corner, but not a press corner). He also had several nagging injuries last season, himself, so how reliable will he be moving forward? I'm fine with adding him to our secondary, if the opportunity arises. But I don't see him as any better than Toler, not in our defense. To be honest, I think we'd be looking at him as an upgrade on Darius Butler, more than anything else. He'd be a really good nickel corner for us, with the ability to fill-in at the #2 spot if necessary.

 

Nail on the head my brother!  Now I kind of see him(Flowers) and Butler as the nickel and dime corners in my view.

I totally agree that Toler shouldn't be cut.  I also don't feel Flowers is cut out for the #2 corner role.  I think he'd be and

okay addition as a nickel or dime corner.  I think that's a better lineup with Butler and Flowers instead of Butler and Gordy.

Flowers may have a problem being used in that way I would imagine.

 

 Honestly though I think we're going to find a gem in Qua Cox, which would be

even better to me if it works out because he's bigger than Flowers plus he has press man skills.

[MrNLM]

Nail on the head my brother!  Now I kind of see him(Flowers) and Butler as the nickel and dime corners in my view.

I totally agree that Toler shouldn't be cut.  I also don't feel Flowers is cut out for the #2 corner role.  I think he'd be and

okay addition as a nickel or dime corner.  I think that's a better lineup with Butler and Flowers instead of Butler and Gordy.

Flowers may have a problem being used in that way I would imagine.

 

 Honestly though I think we're going to find a gem in Qua Cox, which would be

even better to me if it works out because he's bigger than Flowers plus he has press man skills.

I want Qua Cox to sweep me off my feet SOOOO bad!

[Bluefire4]

Kansas City fans say he can't cover at all.. haven't really seen a lot of him.

[dgambill]

I am not high on him. Denver absolutely torched the guy last year and we did too in the playoffs. I don't know if he lost a step or what but he isn't physical at the LOS and doesn't seem to have the same cover skills he showed a few years ago. Last thing we need is another CB turning with his number to the LOS and chasing a sprinting wr that has torched them deep. Money and scheme fit to me say no.

 

Surprisingly with really good CBs, WRs, and OL available in rd 1 the chiefs elected to go after pass rush olb...when they have two starters already. Perhaps they are going for that nascar package Seattle has to get after Peyton but with the issues they have in the secondary and lack of punch at wide receiver....I really questioned their first pick.

[Kyle]

I want Qua Cox to sweep me off my feet SOOOO bad!

 

very intriguing prospect

[BlueCollarColts]

Kansas City fans say he can't cover at all.. haven't really seen a lot of him.

I think Greg Toler when healthy is just as good, if not a little better than Flowers tbh. At least this past year he was.