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Imgrandojji

Week 9 impressions: Hoyer

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1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

Not without TY they aren't.

Both JB ( Houston 6/7 and 2 TDs) and Hoyer (5/6 and 1 TD) now have made Pascal look like a very reliable WR2 if not a stud. It took TY being doubled and ineffective (6/13 and drop) for JB to do it in the Houston game. Hoyer din't have TY at all, and Pascal balled out with both a tremendous  EZ grab, and a circus sideline catch.

 

Campbell looked legit today aside from the injury. I read he jammed it on a helmet or something like that, but he was performing very well, was open a lot, and catching what was thrown his way. (5 for 5) 

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We have WR talent.  We have more than enough WR talent to be an average football team.  IMHO we have WAY less WR talent than we need to be actually competitive against high end defenses.

 

I mean if we want to keep struggling against good defenses (the Steelers aren't a good defense but they have a great front 7) we can go ahead and muddle along with what we've got, but if we insist on keeping a QB who is not elite, and don't get him elite weapons, we only have ourselves to blame when we have no answer to elite defenses 

 

The Manning teams had Wayne AND Harrison.  We have one guy who isn't as good as either Wayne or Harrison, and a bunch of roster filler behind him.  Funchess does not change this.  

 

NOT.  GOOD.  ENOUGH.

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There was a lot of positives today. We figured out how to use Parris. No TY and we still moved the ball well. You can tell hoyer really prepares himself.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

There was a lot of positives today. We figured out how to use Parris. No TY and we still moved the ball well. You can tell hoyer really prepares himself.

Agreed, the fact that he was able to come in and complete the possession on his very first play of the season was impressive.  It does speak to his preparation, confidence and discipline.

 

No reason not to be very impressed by Brian Hoyer.

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21 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Reich was right to call for the FG, it would have given us the game.  you have to trust your special teams unit to get the job done.  He did try to run the ball before he brought the FG unit but the Steelers' front 7 wouldn't have it.

 

If we wanted to get through their red zone D in that game we were going to have to do it the only way we'd successfully done it all game -- with a pass to a WR.  That's the only thing i'd criticize Reich about, but at the same time it's not hard to understand why he tried to run it.

 

Anyway, you have to trust Vinateiri to get it done there, he's done it so often, most successful kicker in that situation of all time.  It just didn't happen.  if you wanted a better chance to score a TD there, you needed a WR that Hoyer can throw to that can beat the best that defenses can throw at him, and with TY out, we didn't have that guy when we needed him.

 

I agree that our WRs didn't do too badly such as they are, but what they are isn't guys that I'd expect to beat good defenses consistently without help from the run game, and when the Steelers shut that down in the last few yards of the final drive Vinateiri became the only option remaining

you'd have to permanently lose a player to bring Chad Kelly up right now.  I doubt it even happens

Being that your kicker has struggled and already missed PAT is was the wrong decision.  He looked like Chuck on that last play.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Being that your kicker has struggled and already missed PAT is was the wrong decision.  He looked like Chuck on that last play.

You can't run a game on fear.  You have to trust your roleplayers to play their roles.  Direct your frustrations at Ballard for not having a backup plan for Vinateiri. 

 

In the situation as it unfolded, the right decision was to bring in your kicker, and Vinetieri was the kicker.  It's just that simple.  He has to make that kick.  It's literally the reason he gets paid money to make kicks like that.

 

It sucks, but the dude's in decline and we're risking our playoff run by trying to ease him into retirement.  It's the risk we take trying to be loyal to the guy.  It's an acceptable risk but there are consequences.  This game is one of the consequences.

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 Hoyer was not the issue and did his job. Think it was the same play as the TD earlier. Put some of it on the play call but doesnt help staring the guy down. Really good play by the defense there. Heck he took a decent beating also and got up, give him an extra ice bath. Oline should have taken it personal that they got JB hurt, but nope.

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I know we don't have super stars at the wr position, but I do think he did disprove the theory that the wrs cannot separate.  He was decisive and quick with  his throws.  He may have also proved that Jacoby does not go through good progressions and has difficulty going thru his reads. Actually, in a weird kind of way, it kind of sucked that Hoyer looked the way he did.  I don't think that Brissett will get much better in terms of being able to dissect a defense. Just a thought. 

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JMO, but I thought it was the best our passing game has looked all season.  Just bring honest, but I think our offense will be fine, even if Brissett missed some time. 

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he was pretty good today outside of the interception.  he moves the ball better than Jacoby and goes through reads faster. he will probably turn it over more too though 

 

 

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I was opposed to the Hoyer signing and I’m not happy with the loss but he played a hell of a lot better than I expected.  I think I was wrong he is a decent backup. 

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3 hours ago, yankeeclipper said:

We really do not have much of a passing game - receivers really do not get separation. It is hard to get use to a Colt Offsense that does not have a Luck or Peyton at the helm.  Not having Ty certainly hurt as well

 

How would we know? Brissett stated his number one down, occasionally his number 2..... Eventually the third and fourth reads just know it's not coming their way....

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3 hours ago, TheMiz said:

I've been steadfast in my belief that JB could develop into a top tier level QB. The fact that there was no real discernable difference in the level of QB play between him and Bryan Freaking Hoyer has changed my mind. 

Hoyer goes through progressions so much faster, makes better reads and feels guys coming open better. There was a couple of sacks taken that JB would probably have got out of, but over all Hoyers play was on par or better than what we've seen this year.

The difference between the two quarterbacks was apparent today.  And it was kinda fun comparing the two of them.

JB is bigger, stronger, with a stronger arm, and more mobile.  But he's a "two read" QB, who stares down his first option, stares down his second option, and then has no time to find anyone else, and escapes to his right to create on the fly.

Hoyer is older and more experienced, but with a lesser arm and less mobile.  He goes through his reads quickly, which gives more opportunity for the 3rd and 4th option who is open to get the ball.  He decides quickly, and throws it.

Hoyer is a known commodity, at the end of his career, with zero growth upside.  He is what he is.

JB has room to grow, and become a lot more than he is today.  He plays it safe, and works to minimize his mistakes.  He may not always be the reason you win, but he's also usually not the reason you lost.

 

I hope JB's injury isn't severe, and he's able to return soon.  In the meantime, learn from Hoyer's quick reads.

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5 hours ago, Bigponcho said:

Hes not great, but we are more explosive with him. That's sad really.

Hoyer was 17-26 for a whopping 168 yards.  What was so explosive about that?  The only explosion was the pick 6 that was a 10-14 point swing.  The Jacoby hate is real with some in this fanbase.  JB was 4-5 for 59 yards.  A higher yards per completion & attempt than Hoyer.  Hoyer made a couple nice throws but his two turnovers hurt.  I'm still glad we have him but we weren't more explosive.  Finally got some YAC from Campbell is all.

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3 hours ago, cbear said:

JMO, but I thought it was the best our passing game has looked all season.  Just bring honest, but I think our offense will be fine, even if Brissett missed some time. 

Best our passing game looked because of what?  Because of gameplan or because of Hoyer?  If Hoyer, that's a silly opinion. Go check the stats from this game & Houston & tell me how this was better.  Hoyer threw for 168 yards... 

 

If you're saying game plan, you may have a point because we finally got Campbell to do something.  And JB was 4-5 with for 59 yards.  More yards per attempt & completion.  Had he not gotten injured, we may have seen another 300 yard 4TD game from him.

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2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Best our passing game looked because of what?  Because of gameplan or because of Hoyer?  If Hoyer, that's a silly opinion. Go check the stats from this game & Houston & tell me how this was better.  Hoyer threw for 168 yards... 

 

If you're saying game plan, you may have a point because we finally got Campbell to do something.  And JB was 4-5 with for 59 yards.  More yards per attempt & completion.  Had he not gotten injured, we may have seen another 300 yard 4TD game from him.

This is such a good point. He wasn’t in long and still had 59 yards. I agree he might of had another 300 yard game.

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If we were asked before the game, if Brissett gets hurt, and Hoyer throws 3 td passes and gets the Colts down the field for a makeable kick, almost all would say they would be happy with that.

I thought Hoyer did fine and he scans the field a check of a lot better than Brissett.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is such a good point. He wasn’t in long and still had 59 yards. I agree he might of had another 300 yard game.

Yeah. I think we had a really good game plan for this game.  And I'm not taking anything from Hoyer.  I thought he played well.  His TD throw to Pascal was beautiful.  That's a throw similar to the deep cross JB hit Campbell on early in the season.  The back shoulder to Pascal was nice too.  I think if JB stays healthy, we win this game & JB has another solid game. 

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2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Yeah. I think we had a really good game plan for this game.  And I'm not taking anything from Hoyer.  I thought he played well.  His TD throw to Pascal was beautiful.  That's a throw similar to the deep cross JB hit Campbell on early in the season.  The back shoulder to Pascal was nice too.  I think if JB stays healthy, we win this game & JB has another solid game. 

Yep. I really liked Reichs game plan in this game with no TY. Everything was perfection up until he was a little to conservative just playing for a FG. Now we wait and see if Campbell is hurt bad and Jacobys knee. Even with all the mistakes JB probably gets us down field and doesn’t throw that INT. That took seven off the board and gave them 7.

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I thought Hoyer played very well. 

I'm guessing he doesn't get many reps with the 1's in practice, so coming in cold from the bench he was impressive. 

 

He leads WR's light years better than JB. 

He has actual touch on throws (instead of rifling it in there because the throw is late)

It seemed like he went through his reads faster 

There were quite a few drops by WR's - some passes hit them in the helmet....what the? 

 

Taking 2 sacks in a row drove me absolutely insane though. JB's pocket presence is much better. 

The INT was a great play by Fitzpatrick (man I wish we would've tried to get him) 

File this under duh, but missing TY was huge. Pascal is literally all we have for WR after TY. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Hoyer was 17-26 for a whopping 168 yards.  What was so explosive about that?  Tll.

he only played 2.5 quarters and had three touch downs 

 

that would be 268 yards extrapolated over 4 quarters

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10 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Hoyer was 17-26 for a whopping 168 yards.  What was so explosive about that?  The only explosion was the pick 6 that was a 10-14 point swing.  The Jacoby hate is real with some in this fanbase.  JB was 4-5 for 59 yards.  A higher yards per completion & attempt than Hoyer.  Hoyer made a couple nice throws but his two turnovers hurt.  I'm still glad we have him but we weren't more explosive.  Finally got some YAC from Campbell is all.

 

No one hates Jacoby, but the personal attacks by his supporters are getting out of hand.  If you even question Jacoby (and Vinny earlier in the year  - before his game play made even the most ardent supporters realize they sound foolish) then you are a "hater" or worse.  

 

The fact is Hoyer is not a great QB but we didn't have a loss in production.  He did have a bad throw into coverage and is a statue in the pocket.  This game showed me that while Hoyer isn't great, the offense felt like it operated with less friction.  The friction with Jacoby is that he simply can not progress through his reads quickly and doesn't throw to a receiver unless they are "college open".  This makes his game play feel very sluggish and our offense stalls as a result, like the wide open receiver in the end zone that Jacoby missed this game (but Hoyer found in a similar play).

 

Hoyer has a different sort of friction in that is that he doesn't have a good arm and struggles making all the throws, and he has no escape ability.   This will also stall drives, but luckily he is in our offense and not Ariens.  

 

I had suspicions before the game that Jacoby isn't the man, and this game did nothing except deepen those thoughts.

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42 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

he only played 2.5 quarters and had three touch downs 

 

that would be 268 yards extrapolated over 4 quarters

Pretty sure he played 3.5 quarters. Jacoby went down the colts second offensive drive.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Pretty sure he played 3.5 quarters. Jacoby went down the colts second offensive drive.

he was hurt in the second quarter

 

 

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I thought Hoyer did ok.  He's more aggressive than JB.  He's willing to make throws that JB just doesn't attempt.  But that also leads to more INT's  The throw to Doyle for the TD and the throw that resulted in the pick 6 where both throws JB doesn't attempt.  

 

All of that said, Hoyer going in there and performing has convinced by that JB is not the future of this franchise.  Hoyer has always played a high level backup or low level starter that teams keep for 1 or 2 years at most.  

 

He came in and after all of it I'm not sure if he's any sort of drop down from JB.  Especially when you consider that he likely didn't get many reps in practice this last week and didn't spend training camp with the Colts.  (JB has gotten all the reps in camp and in practice.)  

 

 

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16 hours ago, ukcolt12 said:

I thought he looked better than Brissett

 

I think it's sort of 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

 

Hoyer is more aggressive than Brissett and reads better.  But he doesn't have a lot of arm strength.  That aggressiveness combined with the lack of arm strength can lead to more turnovers.  But it can also move the offense a bit better and faster.  

 

Basically they have different strengths and weaknesses but I don't consider Hoyer to be much of a downgrade.

 

This has lead me to be convinced that Jacoby Brissett is not the future here, he's the stop gap for this year and next.  

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Hoyer is garbage.

 

 

Yes he made some vet throws, but that pick six was really really bad. I wouldn't trust Hoyer in a big time game, I doubt anyone who has watched Hoyer play throughout his career would. With that being said, he should be okay against the Dolphins. He may struggle against everyone else. 

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he played as good and probably better than the starter that really isnt a good thing. he was progressing through roads way better spreading the ball to all WRs better and leading his receivers better. I know everyone thinks JB is so young and can improve but the truth is hes been in the NFL for like 4 years. He has played behind some of the best QBs and played for some really good head coaches he basically is what he is his growth is about done you get what he is showing.

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Well, this is one step closer to Chad Kelly time like some people are clamoring for. 

 

 

 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see him with the 1's though. 

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7 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Well, this is one step closer to Chad Kelly time like some people are clamoring for. 

 

 

 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see him with the 1's though. 

I really doubt he gets to play. i would love to see if he's worth keeping around but I just don't see it.

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My general impression was that the whole team seemed to lack mental focus. I was going to say mental toughness, but I changed my mind. The indicators are dropping passes, missing FGs and PATs, and drawing dubious penalties. Even Quenton Nelson getting pushed back into Brissett may have been a mental lapse. Something else is going on in their heads. Correct that, and we should see great improvement.

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If anyone on this team or front office is buying their own hype it's the offensive line. The last two weeks they have been crap vs lesser talent. It takes effort and discipline and I am seeing less of those the last 2 weeks. They better get it together because they're needed if this team is going to make any noise every year. 

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27 minutes ago, colt18 said:

Hoyer is garbage.

 

 

 

Nope.

He played very well for a backup thrust into a game during it.   Just remember Painter and Sorgi.

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Just now, Myles said:

Nope.

He played very well for a backup thrust into a game during it.   Just remember Painter and Sorgi.

 

Sorgi was a HOFer compared to Painter. 

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17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Both JB ( Houston 6/7 and 2 TDs) and Hoyer (5/6 and 1 TD) now have made Pascal look like a very reliable WR2 if not a stud. It took TY being doubled and ineffective (6/13 and drop) for JB to do it in the Houston game. Hoyer din't have TY at all, and Pascal balled out with both a tremendous  EZ grab, and a circus sideline catch.

 

Campbell looked legit today aside from the injury. I read he jammed it on a helmet or something like that, but he was performing very well, was open a lot, and catching what was thrown his way. (5 for 5) 

Once we get hilton and funchess  back, keep Campbell  healthy, and pascal our wrs will be better. Cain and Roger's are the weak links 

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18 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

Sorgi was a HOFer compared to Painter. 

image.png.7f4a5dc152aac6a81f1b807321e4869b.png

 

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