Week 9 impressions: Hoyer

[Imgrandojji]

Well that's one way around the perma-merge.

 

brissett's injury brought the backup onto the field, and Hoyer delivered a quick strike TD, then a pick 6 we're going to be talking about all week I think.  After that we fell into a dogfight with a backup QB and a backup C, and we weren't favorites to win in those situations on the road.

 

Personally I think he played very well when you allow for the fact that he is a QB2, he only really had that one mistake and he put the team in position to win.  3 TD 1 pick isn't too shabby, I'd take those numbers from Brissett, Im happy about them from a backup QB.

 

The failure on special teams cost us the game, the Rogers fumble on KR especially, but I think it's encouraging that Brian Hoyer was able to keep us in the game.

 

Now all eyes are on Brissett's knee and whether it might cost him a longer period of time or whether it'll heal up over the course of the week.  People are speculating about MCL tears and that worries me because knee ligament issues tend to linger.  Hopefully Brissett will be healthy next week.  I really don't want to see any more of Hoyer than I have to but at least if we do have to see him again, he's not terrible for a backup.  Made a couple throw plays I don't think Brissett makes.

 

Also another reason I'm not blaming Hoyer for the outcome, pick 6 notwithstanding, is that that might be the most shabby job of officiating the game I've ever had the misfortune to watch.  I try not to be the kind that complains about the refs but the last 2 weeks have been ridiculously bad.  We hold NFL players to professional standards, and impose consequences when they screw up, I wish that wasn't such a foreign concept for the Zebras. 

 

When you have no idea what will and will not draw a flag it's impossible to get into a rhythm or develop a gameplan, and the fact that it was all but completely 1 sided until that failed final drive is just pathetic and reflects very poorly on the NFL.  I can't blame the backups for not playing at a high level when it's impossible to know what is and is not a penalty from minute to minute.

 

Still, it was encouraging that Hoyer allowed us a fighting chance, even though e were playing 11 on 15.

[yankeeclipper]

blocked XP, missed game winning FG, pick 6, two fumbles - one of which occurred on the Kick off after we get a safety, stupid penalties. Losing Brissett and Kelly. Colts still could have won. Have to stop making bonehead penalties. Hoyer was good but I would not want to have him play to many games. Hopefully Brissett is OK.

[HectorRoberts]

I really hope Jacoby is alright!

[GoColts8818]

He did everything you could ask a backup QB to do thrown in there without his starting center or best play maker on offense.  

 

With that said please let Jacoby not be hurt too badly.

[yankeeclipper]

We really do not have much of a passing game - receivers really do not get separation. It is hard to get use to a Colt Offsense that does not have a Luck or Peyton at the helm.  Not having Ty certainly hurt as well

 

[21isSuperman]

I thought Hoyer played well.  Made some really nice throws and his ball location was pretty good.  Not his fault the OL couldn't block.  That's 2 weeks in a row now the OL has been outplayed

[yankeeclipper]

Hate the stupid penalties. Boy they hurt!

 

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, yankeeclipper said:

\Have to stop making bonehead penalties. 

Other than the unnecessary Leonard hit most of those penalties, 10 years ago, would have been called "playing football."

[yankeeclipper]

What is the story with OL play on pass protection. It has not been as good as last season. I suppose some of the sacks have a lot to do with QB's not making reads quick enough and us not having much in the way of deep threats - outside of Ty. 

 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, 21isSuperman said:

I thought Hoyer played well.  Made some really nice throws and his ball location was pretty good.  Not his fault the OL couldn't block.  That's 2 weeks in a row now the OL has been outplayed

Yes something is going on there and it wasn’t all because Kelly was out.  The right side of the line got abused and the left side struggled.  Teams are starting to just blitz and stack the box on every down.  Colts have to find an answer on offense and make teams pay for that.

[hambone35]

Wheres Chad kelly 

[JediXMan]

Hoyer did well for the most part especially missing C, WR1, WR2 having said that we need JB back as soon as possible.

[Imgrandojji]

I think we lost our chance to make that adjustmen when Ballard sat on his thumbs and didn't get us WR help.  We didn't need a WR, we needed 2 WR, and when Ballard gave us 0 WR, he was just asking for our sketchy WR corps to begin to fall apart to wear and tear.

 

It's like a store manager who would rather overstress his current employees than replace staff members who quit or need to be fired.  Sooner or later that always backfires and your best workers quit or break down.  It's starting to backfire on Ballard.

 

Was hoping Ballard could make the adjustment required to go from a great rebuilding GM to a great winning GM, but instead of being willing to spend to win, he's sitting on his picks like a hen on her eggs and a contending year is beginning to slip away, partly as a consequence.  Extremely disappointing.

[EastStreet]

Aside from the INT, he did really really well.

 

1) 3 TDs to 3 different players

2) very nice touch, placement, and anticipation

3) The OL was pretty bad and he still made things happen

4) He did it all with a back up Center

5) 65% and was really better (drops)

5) He spread it around very well. Pascal 5/6, Campbell 5/5, Doyle 3/4, Rogers 3/5, Ebron 2/2, Cox 1/1, Wilkins 1/2, Hines 1/3 (Pitt sniffed him out almost every time). 

[John Waylon]

It’s time to move on from these posts...

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, John Waylon said:

It’s time to move on from these posts...

This is probably the last week of them, assuming Brissett comes back and is healthy, but Hoyer doesn't actually have a  topic thread on the board, so I doubt the admins will give this thread a second look.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Imgrandojji said:

I think we lost our chance to make that adjustmen when Ballard sat on his thumbs and didn't get us WR help.  We didn't need a WR, we needed 2 WR, and when Ballard gave us 0 WR, he was just asking for our sketchy WR corps to begin to fall apart to wear and tear.

 

It's like a store manager who would rather overstress his current employees than replace staff members who quit or need to be fired.  Sooner or later that always backfires and your best workers quit or break down.  It's starting to backfire on Ballard.

 

Was hoping Ballard could make the adjustment required to go from a great rebuilding GM to a great winning GM, but he's sitting on his picks like a hen on her eggs and a contending year is beginning to slip away, partly as a consequence.  Extremely disappointing.

 

This is a super hot bad take. 

Hoyer was 65%, found WRs that were open, Pascal was 5/6 and Campbell 5/5. Had TY played, we would have looked very good from a WR perspective.

[Calmack]

7 minutes ago, hambone35 said:

Wheres Chad kelly 

Busy being a career camp arm 

[Mr.Debonair]

10 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I thought Hoyer played well.  Made some really nice throws and his ball location was pretty good.  Not his fault the OL couldn't block.  That's 2 weeks in a row now the OL has been outplayed

I agree. I would start him at Miami if Brissett isn’t 100%. He was quick with his decision making and was pretty accurate.

 

You're 100% about the O-line also

[coltsfan_canada]

He played very well specially being a backup with backup C.

 

However this OL giving up 9 sacks in last 2 games compare to 8 sacks the whole season. 

[Imgrandojji]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

This is a super hot bad take. 

Hoyer was 65%, found WRs that were open, Pascal was 5/6 and Campbell 5/5. Had TY played, we would have looked very good from a WR perspective.

If TY was healthy, or we had another high caliber WR out on the field, we probably win this game.  we were very close to winning it even with basically the second string team on the field

 

 The take is hot, but not that bad.

[Imgrandojji]

2 minutes ago, coltsfan_canada said:

He played very well specially being a backup with backup C.

 

However this OL giving up 9 sacks in last 2 games compare to 8 sacks the whole season. 

Last 2 weeks we went up against 2 of the most veteran, strong, physical front 7s in the NFL.  I don't think that's particularly indicative.  We just had 2 bad matchups for a young up and coming OL in a row.

 

Really sucks that defenses got to Brissett in both of those games and he's gimpy now.  That really hurts our chances to do anything this year. 

 

We had a chance to be major contenders but to get there Brissett had  to stay healthy, and clearly now that's out the window and we're fringe contenders again.  sad but true.

[stitches]

Good game for the situation he was thrown into(entering mid-game, losing his starting center), also had to deal with dropped passes and penalties. The interception was kind of bad. He stared down Doyle and missed Minkah starting his break on the ball before he even threw the ball. 

 

[TheMiz]

I've been steadfast in my belief that JB could develop into a top tier level QB. The fact that there was no real discernable difference in the level of QB play between him and Bryan Freaking Hoyer has changed my mind. 

Hoyer goes through progressions so much faster, makes better reads and feels guys coming open better. There was a couple of sacks taken that JB would probably have got out of, but over all Hoyers play was on par or better than what we've seen this year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

No Kelly for most of the game and no TY. I think he played great. I am still fuming Reich got so conservative at the end with AV struggling. Steelers hadn’t really stopped us that much all day.

[HOF19]

Mike Chappell‏Verified account @mchappell51 11m11 minutes ago

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Gotta think we're about ready to see Chad Kelly elevated to Colts' active roster based on Jacoby Brissett's knee issue.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

If TY was healthy, or we had another high caliber WR out on the field, we probably win this game.  we were very close to winning it even with basically the second string team on the field

 

 The take is hot, but not that bad.

 

It's very bad. WRs didn't lose this game. Kicker costing us 5 points, OL penalties setting us back and killing drives, and a P6 (10-14 pt swing) were far larger impacts. 

 

Then add about a 100 yards of bogus penalty yards

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Brissett seems to have a mcl strain. Reich said he isn’t sure about next week.  Thank god its the dolphins.

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, TheMiz said:

 The fact that there was no real discernable difference in the level of QB play between him and Bryan Freaking Hoyer has changed my mind. 

 

It shouldn't.  We all know that Hoyer is a quietly competent veteran QB2 who made a career of being an accurate short range passer.  The difference is Brissett has the ceiling to be more than that.  Hoyer never did, he doesn't have the arm strength for it.

 

Hoyer can match what brissett can do in an average game but won't come close to what Brissett can do in Brissett's best games.  Brissett is the better player on the whole, 

 

Remember, while the Steelers' D is very physical it's not very skilled, tends to be undisciplined, and when the refs don't have an extra fat stack in their pockets like they apparently had tonight, they tend to take a lot of penalties.  So Hoyer isn't exactly going out there against the level of competition Brissett faced last week.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

If TY was healthy, or we had another high caliber WR out on the field, we probably win this game.  we were very close to winning it even with basically the second string team on the field

 

 The take is hot, but not that bad.

This had nothing to do with the Wr. Steelers couldn’t stop us. We stopped ourselves.

[Imgrandojji]

Just now, Chloe6124 said:

This had nothing to do with the Wr. Steelers couldn’t stop us. We stopped ourselves.

We had enough drops and bad play from our lower level WR, that I'm just gonna disagree with you and leave it at that.  Hoyer's a great short range passer so the WR played better than they usually do, but no one in that group with the possible exception of Pascal is really what I'd call an NFL caliber wideout.

[TheMiz]

3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

It shouldn't.  We all know that Hoyer is a quietly competent veteran QB2 who made a career of being an accurate short range passer.  The difference is Brissett has the ceiling to be more than that.  Hoyer never did, he doesn't have the arm strength for it.

 

Hoyer can match what brissett can do in an average game but won't come close to what Brissett can do in Brissett's best games.  Brissett is the better player on the whole, 

 

Remember, while the Steelers' D is very physical it's not very skilled, tends to be undisciplined, and when the refs don't have an extra fat stack in their pockets like they apparently had tonight, they tend to take a lot of penalties.  So Hoyer isn't exactly going out there against the level of competition Brissett faced last week.

All valid points.

So how long do we give JB to learn how to go through progressions and make his reads?

And for a strong armed QB why haven't we had any big downfield completions?

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

We had enough drops and bad play from our lower level WR, that I'm just gonna disagree with you and leave it at that.  Hoyer's a great short range passer so the WR played better than they usually do, but no one in that group with the possible exception of Pascal is really what I'd call an NFL caliber wideout.

We were in scoring position on almost every play. Even pascal stepped up at the end. Reich blew it settling for a FG.  Despite the bad TO we still were in postion to win. He screwed up.

[HOF19]

I don't mind giving Chad Kelly a chance (just 1 chance tho ) . Nadine that infamous Chad Kelly thread is locked right ? (how many pages was that ? )

[Nickster]

He did fine.  Passing game looked different with him in there.  Bad throw on INT.  Strange how easily it was returned.

 

I expect the passing game to improve with him in the game.  I don’t understand the Colts plan to deal with pressure.  

[Imgrandojji]

Reich was right to call for the FG, it would have given us the game.  you have to trust your special teams unit to get the job done.  He did try to run the ball before he brought the FG unit but the Steelers' front 7 wouldn't have it.

 

If we wanted to get through their red zone D in that game we were going to have to do it the only way we'd successfully done it all game -- with a pass to a WR.  That's the only thing i'd criticize Reich about, but at the same time it's not hard to understand why he tried to run it.

 

Anyway, you have to trust Vinateiri to get it done there, he's done it so often, most successful kicker in that situation of all time.  It just didn't happen.  if you wanted a better chance to score a TD there, you needed a WR that Hoyer can throw to that can beat the best that defenses can throw at him, and with TY out, we didn't have that guy when we needed him.

 

I agree that our WRs didn't do too badly such as they are, but what they are isn't guys that I'd expect to beat good defenses consistently without help from the run game, and when the Steelers shut that down in the last few yards of the final drive Vinateiri became the only option remaining

3 minutes ago, HOF19 said:

I don't mind giving Chad Kelly a chance (just 1 chance tho ) . Nadine that infamous Chad Kelly thread is locked right ? (how many pages was that ? )

you'd have to permanently lose a player to bring Chad Kelly up right now.  I doubt it even happens

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

It shouldn't.  We all know that Hoyer is a quietly competent veteran QB2 who made a career of being an accurate short range passer.  The difference is Brissett has the ceiling to be more than that.  Hoyer never did, he doesn't have the arm strength for it.

Comparing arm strength isn't very relevant when JB rarely goes deep (where arm strength is positive), and throws a lot of short passes too hard (when arm strength is needed). Arm strength has yet to win us a game.

 

Quote

Hoyer can match what brissett can do in an average game but won't come close to what Brissett can do in Brissett's best games.  Brissett is the better player on the whole,

Hoyer has much better touch, anticipation, and vision. He also reads Ds very well and makes quick decisions. Not saying Brissett can't improve, but there's a very clear difference. The biggest dig on Hoyer has always been INTs.  I agree JB might have a higher ceiling, but that's based on hope of improvement, not past practice. Hoyer does have a higher floor.

 

Quote

Remember, while the Steelers' D is very physical it's not very skilled, tends to be undisciplined, and when the refs don't have an extra fat stack in their pockets like they apparently had tonight, they tend to take a lot of penalties.  So Hoyer isn't exactly going out there against the level of competition Brissett faced last week.

 

Not skilled? LOL. Very bad take too. Penalties does not equate directly to lack of skill. Pitt has some very skilled defenders, some with elite skill. 

[adamthyst]

He did his job. Unfortunately, the entire team didn't do their jobs enough to get us a win. I hope Brissett is okay but I have enough faith in him to play some games should Jacoby not be able to play.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

We had enough drops and bad play from our lower level WR, that I'm just gonna disagree with you and leave it at that.  Hoyer's a great short range passer so the WR played better than they usually do, but no one in that group with the possible exception of Pascal is really what I'd call an NFL caliber wideout.

they are as good or better than what Luck had.....

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

they are as good or better than what Luck had.....

Not without TY they aren't.