Bobby Okereke allegations at Stanford

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Not psyched about sharing this, but I figured it’d make it’s way to the forum sooner or later.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Colts/comments/bwwz49/bobby_okereke_revealed_as_stanford_football/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

 

[superrep1967]

It an allegation only until we have the facts and it looks like we may never have them. But until then we can't prejudge anything but people still will, unfortunately. I mean if Ballard felt comfortable enough about still selecting him he probably knows a lot more about this then we do. We should not turn against this guy at least not yet. I'm ignoring this until I know more. 

[Bravo]

Ehhh. It doesn’t seem like any legal action was taken at all civil or criminally.

 

He must have checked out okay because Ballard and the Colts felt comfortable taking him.

 

Accusations are tough sometimes. Sometimes correct and sometimes terrible lies.

 

 

[DaveA1102]

1 hour ago, bravo4460 said:

Ehhh. It doesn’t seem like any legal action was taken at all civil or criminally.

 

He must have checked out okay because Ballard and the Colts felt comfortable taking him.

 

Accusations are tough sometimes. Sometimes correct and sometimes terrible lies.

 

 

 

....and for the most part we never find out the truth one way or another.

[coltsfansince65]

This makes me wonder if these allegations are the reason he isn't signed yet.

[MikeCurtis]

Innocent ....until proven guilty ..........by a court of law

 

Its a great concept our country needs to go back to.................

[lollygagger8]

Not saying who's right and who's wrong, but if it's a false accusation, the punishment needs to go the other way back to the accuser. 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Not psyched about sharing this, but I figured it’d make it’s way to the forum sooner or later.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Colts/comments/bwwz49/bobby_okereke_revealed_as_stanford_football/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

 

I find it interesting that she not the school turned this into law enforcement and simply had a panel with in the school investigate it. Something is very odd about that. 

 

That said, innocent until proven guilty. I’d like to know more before rendering an opinion on his character. 

[Buck Showalter]

55 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Innocent ....until proven guilty ..........by a court of law

 

Its a great concept our country needs to go back to.................

Right, because history has shown to side with, vindicate, & bring justice & piece of mind to victims of rape...

[dew5150]

1. Never dismiss a rape allegation. They should always be taken seriously.

2. This report is from 1 website. Wait for other outlets to confirm. As of the time I'm posting this, it's the only website to mention Okereke involved in this. Google "Bobby Okereke rape". The reddit thread is the only one that came up.

3. There are serious issues with the Title IX process over the past few years.

4. "Innocent until proven guilty" and "Take every rape allegation seriously" are not mutually exclusive.

[NannyMcafee]

These days women scream rape when nothing happened at all. Not saying she was or wasnt. I just know a kid who went through this scenario, got dragged through the mud, was arrested because of it, just to be found not guilty. The lady walked. She was found to be lying and just walked away. Meanwhile this guy still has an arrest on his record for no reason. 

[DaveA1102]

13 minutes ago, dew5150 said:

1. Never dismiss a rape allegation. They should always be taken seriously.

2. This report is from 1 website. Wait for other outlets to confirm. As of the time I'm posting this, it's the only website to mention Okereke involved in this. Google "Bobby Okereke rape". The reddit thread is the only one that came up.

3. There are serious issues with the Title IX process over the past few years.

4. "Innocent until proven guilty" and "Take every rape allegation seriously" are not mutually exclusive.

 

All excellent points. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Innocent ....until proven guilty ..........by a court of law

 

Its a great concept our country needs to go back to.................

 

No one’s suggesting otherwise, but if this were a draft pick from a division rival, or say, the New England Patriots, I could see the “innocent until proven guilty” crowd singing a different tune all together.

[DougDew]

The burden of proof should be applied equally regardless of the charge.  Some potential criminals are not more guilty than other potential criminals simply based upon what they are charged with (or who they are).  The thought of innocent until proven guilty should  not be influenced by how serious the charge is.  They are concepts independent of each other.

 

With certain accusations, I don't think the judicial system consistently applies the law that way.  I think it assumes a measure of guilt until proven innocent (maybe even based upon who the accuser and accused are) in certain circumstances.  

 

I hope Bobby gets a fair shake from whomever the amateur judge and jurist is for the Colts organization.  I hope for the young man's sake that the situation is looked upon without bias towards how it could be perceived to impact the Colts.  They could take real and significant action against a player based upon a wrong perception, if how it impacts the Colts is a major part of their thinking.

 

Edit:  Troubling sentence at the end of the link and a sign of our maybe too socially aware times.....

 

"At a certain point, he is innocent until proven guilty. And there clearly wasn't a preponderance of evidence. Still, it's a sticky situation to say the least."

 

Um. yes, that certain point begins the moment he is accused.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Bet there was alcohol involved in both sides. This reminds of the country song take a drunk girl home.

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The burden of proof should be applied equally regardless of the charge.  Some potential criminals are not more guilty than other potential criminals simply based upon what they are charged with (or who they are).  The thought of innocent until proven guilty should  not be influenced by how serious the charge is.  They are concepts independent of each other.

 

With certain accusations, I don't think the judicial system consistently applies the law that way.  I think it assumes a measure of guilt until proven innocent (maybe even based upon who the accuser and accused are) in certain circumstances.  That's a socially-aware way to apply the law.

 

I hope Bobby gets a fair shake from whomever the amateur judge and jurist is for the Colts organization.  I hope for the young man's sake that the situation is looked upon without bias towards how it could be perceived to impact the Colts.  They could take real and significant action against a player based upon a wrong perception, if how it impacts the Colts is a major part of their thinking.

The Colts knew about this before they drafted him

[Creekside]

53 minutes ago, dew5150 said:

1. Never dismiss a rape allegation. They should always be taken seriously.

 

 

Crimes, including rape, are matters of law enforcement to be reported to the local police department for investigation. If  evidence of a crime exists, a prosecutor brings charges. If convicted in a court of law by judge and jury, the criminal is punished.

 

This accuser apparently did not report the incident to the police, but to the college.

 

She is the one who did not take it seriously.

 

 

 

 

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The Colts knew about this before they drafted him

Yes, I see that.  Thanks for lifting that up. My point is that I don't know if NFL teams are equipped to make better judgments about this than the judicial system.  Bad perceptions of facts can lead to bad decisions. If they are looking at the situation as to how badly they think it will back up on the Colts organization, it becomes a bit of tainted judgment towards a person, IMO.

 

I know CB has mentioned that they take character into consideration but don't necessarily look at past accusations as a litmus test....to paraphrase.

[Valpo2004]

I will point out that what I'm reading indicated that in a real court the accuser was unable to even get a restraining order.  

 

California colleges are required to use the "Affirmative Consent" standard when they judge these things.  But that's not the same standard as the law uses.  

 

http://time.com/3222176/campus-rape-the-problem-with-yes-means-yes/

 

For example as the article notes pulling someone into a bed and taking their clothes off is generally considered consent (to some extent) by the law.  (Of course consent can always be withdrawn) 

 

But under affirmative consent rules that isn't considered to be consent.  

 

I think the fact that the real courts wouldn't even give her a restraining order is pretty telling that her case is not particularly strong and in terms of a legal case may be completely non-existent.  

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

The Colts knew about this before they drafted him

 

Which to me suggests 1 of 2 things: they did extensive background research on the incident, & came to the conclusion that it was just a huge misunderstanding or potentially even a false accusation, or, they saw a player that they really liked, knew of the incident, realized it was shady, but still thought he was simply worth the risk to take in the 3rd round, but no higher.

 

Either way, it seems that through their due diligence they’re not concerned that this behavior will manifest itself during his pro career. Obviously I hope they’re right.

[Nadine]

False accusations of rape run at about the same rate as false reports of other crimes.  Somewhere between 2% and 10%

 

Estimates are that between 40% and 80% of rapes go unreported.

 

No idea what occurred in this case but rush to judgement is not a good idea.  There are wrongful convictions as well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

 

[Nadine]

6 minutes ago, Nulled said:

 

I'd love to get the statistics on false reports on athletes that will soon likely be millionaires. Not all accusations are created equal.

That would be interesting.  As would conviction rates based on income

[pgt_rob]

Not great news but I'll wait to hear what the law says when the time comes. 

[Nadine]

6 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Not great news but I'll wait to hear what the law says when the time comes. 

I don't think police are involved.  Issue was settled by Stanford in 2015

[Steamboat_Shaun]

7 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Not great news but I'll wait to hear what the law says when the time comes. 

 

As far as the law goes, I think this one is a done deal.

[jmac_48]

2 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

Not great news but I'll wait to hear what the law says when the time comes. 

No charges pending, restraining order denied...

I think the law has spoken.

The court of public opinion is still in session. Big Whoop! Somebody's trying to stir things up. IMHO

[Steamboat_Shaun]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

I find it interesting that she not the school turned this into law enforcement and simply had a panel with in the school investigate it. Something is very odd about that. 

 

That said, innocent until proven guilty. I’d like to know more before rendering an opinion on his character. 

 

Campus police are always involved before actual law enforcement. This story from Notre Dame was a particularly ugly instance of this exact type of scenario.

 

https://publicintegrity.org/education/notre-dame-case-highlights-complexities-of-campus-sexual-assault-investigations/

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Innocent ....until proven guilty ..........by a court of law

 

Its a great concept our country needs to go back to.................

With media, internet and social media sadly it's guilty until proven innocent. Which even if innocent your name has been dragged through the mud. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Nulled said:

I'm glad to see that no one is on here calling for his head. It might just be because he's a Colt, but I'm confident our judicial system would have taken action had there been a crime committed. IMHO if this story "blows up" it will be because the media wants clicks.

 

 

[jameszeigler834]

3 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

Not saying who's right and who's wrong, but if it's a false accusation, the punishment needs to go the other way back to the accuser. 

I agree 100% its past time these Women stop getting away with ruining peoples good name just cause they had a one night stand with them then decided they didn't want anything more from them.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I agree 100% its past time these Women stop getting away with ruining peoples good name just cause they had a one night stand with them then decided they didn't want anything more from them.

 

You don't that that's what happened here. No one outside of those two people really know what happened.

 

And I'd go out on a limb and say that the amount of women who are actually raped is much higher than the amount of women who falsely accuse someone of rape.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

It does go a long way that he told the colts about this and they didn’t find it out themselves.  The fact he was upfront about it goes a long way.

[PeterBowman]

26 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

I agree 100% its past time these Women stop getting away with ruining peoples good name just cause they had a one night stand with them then decided they didn't want anything more from them.

yep!!!  a proven malicious false accusation should be given the same punishment as as actual assault. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Well this story sure took off.

 

 

[Jared Jammer]

3 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

No one’s suggesting otherwise, but if this were a draft pick from a division rival, or say, the New England Patriots, I could see the “innocent until proven guilty” crowd singing a different tune all together.

 

Unfortunately, last fall, we witnessed half the country completely abandon the concept of presumed innocence. Most of us are still cautious over that.

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

You don't that that's what happened here. No one outside of those two people really know what happened.

 

And I'd go out on a limb and say that the amount of women who are actually raped is much higher than the amount of women who falsely accuse someone of rape.

I'd also add that most rapes will go unreported.  That said, I have long operated under the notion that during the investigation, there are 3 sides of every story, his side, her side and somewhere in the middle is the facts which will lead to the truth.

[csmopar]

55 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Well this story sure took off.

 

 

If Law Enforcement cleared him, this is a non-story. 

[Nadine]

1 hour ago, PeterBowman said:

yep!!!  a proven malicious false accusation should be given the same punishment as as actual assault. 

I think false reports of crimes carry a seven year sentence. Of course you run into the same problem as you have to begin with, only two people in the room.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

17 minutes ago, csmopar said:

If Law Enforcement cleared him, this is a non-story. 

 

They were never involved.

[stitches]

Here's a New York Times article about it from 2016:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/sports/football/stanford-football-rape-accusation.html

 

It seems like twice a jury/panel of five handed 3-2 votes decisions in favor of the accuser, but Stanford had set up the bar at 4-1 for them to take action. 

 

Since then they have changed the panels to 3 people and you need unanimous decision for them to sanction the accused.