Bobby Okereke allegations at Stanford

[Nadine]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I've seen maybe 1 questionable poster's comments that could be perceived this way. 

I see more than 1 that I 'perceive' that way.

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I see more than 1 that I 'perceive' that way.

Fair enough.

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Not really, I've seen maybe 1 questionable poster's comments that could be perceived this way.  Most of the comments I'm seeing are saying there just isn't enough facts to support any conclusion. 

Some of this discussion is reflecting some crazy legal complaints, and comments reflect it.  

 

You've shown a couple of situations where its a bit late to claim it wasn't consensual...after experiencing morning remorse maybe?  I mean, trying to piece together the negotiated terms of what by all accounts was a 95% consensual one night stand is not something the court system should have to sort out.

 

I don't think its fair to say comments reflect hatred of women.  It might be fair to say they reflect hatred of civil liberties attorney's who find a way to file another kind of man-hating lawsuit. LOL

[DougDew]

41 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Haha what...I can't even. 

 

Maybe that guy finally feels comfortable enough to share his wild side with the girl. Who are we to judge him?

 

 

If it were me, I might go out on a limb and try to even things out by claiming the woman simply reminded me of her brother.  I might score some political points with the prosecutors.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

11 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If it were me, I might go out on a limb and try to even things out by claiming the woman simply reminded me of her brother.  I might score some political points with the prosecutors.

 

This thread is taking a weird turn...

 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

This thread is taking a weird turn...

 

Yeah.  I've pushed it far enough......

 

Please don't be confused that we are having a discussion about actual rape, because no event in this thread has been determined to be actual rape.  Its more about some allegations that are pushing it as well.

[Nadine]

52 minutes ago, DougDew said:

man-hating lawsuit. LOL

This is the perspective I'm talking about.  

[Creekside]

9 minutes ago, Nadine said:

This is the perspective I'm talking about.  

 

Does this really mean that Doug Dew is a "woman hater"

 

 

[Coltsfan66]

7 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Does this really mean that Doug Dew is a "woman hater"

 

 

 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

please realize that he is losing his capacity for consistent rational thought....at least to the degree he had it when you first met.  If you stay and play for a bit longer, you're increasing your risk he won't be rational at all.

 

You're basically saying that once you start the engine, you have to drive the car. The problem is that if a person withdraws consent -- at any point -- the other person should park the car.

 

It's not okay to say that once a man gets going, he doesn't think straight, as if that means he shouldn't be responsible for the things he does. 

[csmopar]

26 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You're basically saying that once you start the engine, you have to drive the car. The problem is that if a person withdraws consent -- at any point -- the other person should park the car.

 

It's not okay to say that once a man gets going, he doesn't think straight, as if that means he shouldn't be responsible for the things he does. 

Agreed. 

[BOTT]

5 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Reading this thread makes me wonder if some of these guys were raised with a certain attitude toward women, or if they developed it after bad experiences with women.

 

I understand there are women out there that cry wolf for whatever reason, but some of these guys seem to be painting all women with a very broad brush.

 

Women have been getting the short end of the stick when it comes to this stuff for basically all of human history (rape didn't even used to be a crime, and still isn't in some parts of the world), but as soon as a few guys get falsely accused of some stuff, certain people are up in arms about it.

 

It's because what's happening on college campuses is *ic.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colleges-slammed-with-lawsuits-from-men-accused-of-sex-crimes/

 

[NannyMcafee]

9 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

Why do you think she should continue to talk about it? Rape is traumatic. It is not like law enforcement officials are that empathic. 

 

 

No. Police officers often make victims feel worse. 

 

If your Dr. Tells you something you dont like you get a second opinion. If a rapee alleges that this man raped her and the college wont listen it is her obligation to go where it will get investigated. Do you have faith in college investigative abilities? I woukdnt especially if it were in fact the truth and has been ignored thus far. 

 

I'm sorry if its true. But if it is true then justice must be served, and might give you the only closure you're ever going to get. No one said it wasnt physically and emotionally traumatic. But if it was, and is, then she needs to do everything in her power to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

[NFLfan]

6 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

If your Dr. Tells you something you dont like you get a second opinion. If a rapee alleges that this man raped her and the college wont listen it is her obligation to go where it will get investigated. Do you have faith in college investigative abilities? I woukdnt especially if it were in fact the truth and has been ignored thus far. 

 

I'm sorry if its true. But if it is true then justice must be served, and might give you the only closure you're ever going to get. No one said it wasnt physically and emotionally traumatic. But if it was, and is, then she needs to do everything in her power to make sure it doesn't happen again. 

 

Why should she? It is hard to investigate rape and she will have to re-hash details over and over, often to other men. That is one of the reasons why most incidents of rape are not reported to police. 

 

What I am getting from many of the posters' comments here is that if a rape is not reported to police, it did not happen. That's really silly. 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Some of this discussion is reflecting some crazy legal complaints, and comments reflect it.  

 

You've shown a couple of situations where its a bit late to claim it wasn't consensual...after experiencing morning remorse maybe?  I mean, trying to piece together the negotiated terms of what by all accounts was a 95% consensual one night stand is not something the court system should have to sort out.

 

I don't think its fair to say comments reflect hatred of women.  It might be fair to say they reflect hatred of civil liberties attorney's who find a way to file another kind of man-hating lawsuit. LOL

 

A different perspective.....

 

A woman claims she's raped,  and the school system doesn't help her.

 

She hears from other friends with similar experiences in one way or another that law enforcement doesn't help.  

 

That the medical community isn't supportive enough.

 

That the legal process can be abusive.

 

That religious support is lacking.

 

That their relationships with parents isn't helpful and they fear making it worse.

 

And if wonder why the "me too" movement took off so far and so fast,  you might want to consider that tons of women,  coast to coast,  liberal and conservative feel like the system is often stacked against them.      Men control every base of power in this country.    Women are often made to feel like men are making the decisions for women.     

 

These situaiton aren't as easy and obvious and simple and straight forward as men think they are.

 

If the pendulum has swung back too far and too hard against men (and I'm sure it has in some cases)  then women are saying perhaps that's a taste of what it feels like to be a woman these days.

 

[NFLfan]

4 hours ago, Coltsfan66 said:

I agree and it makes me wonder if those who seem to have that rationale would have the same if he was drafted by another team?

 

Remember Jameis Winston? Most folks here assumed he was guilty.

 

My posts should not suggest that I think Bobby O is guilty. How would I know? But some of these comments are simply  (It's just a few posters.)

[Nadine]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If the pendulum has swung back too far and too hard against men (and I'm sure it has in some cases)  then women are saying perhaps that's a taste of what it feels like to be a woman these days.

I don't want an innocent man's life to be harmed.  

But yes, the scope of violence against women is large and it shouldn't be dismissed or trivialized.

We need to do better all around

[Nadine]

I think the epstein case is a good example on how bad people do bad things to young girls and get away with it.  

[NannyMcafee]

26 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Why should she? It is hard to investigate rape and she will have to re-hash details over and over, often to other men. That is one of the reasons why most incidents of rape are not reported to police. 

 

What I am getting from many of the posters' comments here is that if a rape is not reported to police, it did not happen. That's really silly. 

 

I dont think anyone here has said that

[Creekside]

2 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I dont think anyone here has said that

 

Correct. And no one is dismissing or trivializing rape.

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, Nadine said:

I don't want an innocent man's life to be harmed.  

But yes, the scope of violence against women is large and it shouldn't be dismissed or trivialized.

We need to do better all around

 

Nor do I...    I don't want a single innocent man to be harmed either.

 

I'm only trying to let some of the men here know there's another way to look at things...   another point of view to consider...     I saw too many comments written my men about how things should be done by women.    I think these men are lacking a certain sensitivity and perspective....

 

In broad, general terms,  I'm a supporter of the MeToo movement...    but from time to time,  the movement gets ahead of itself and gets out over its own ski's...     and ends up hurting its own cause.

[Nadine]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 but from time to time,  the movement gets ahead of itself and gets out over its own ski's...     and ends up hurting its own cause.

How so?

[CurBeatElite]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You're basically saying that once you start the engine, you have to drive the car. The problem is that if a person withdraws consent -- at any point -- the other person should park the car.

 

It's not okay to say that once a man gets going, he doesn't think straight, as if that means he shouldn't be responsible for the things he does. 

 

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

What I am getting from many of the posters' comments here is that if a rape is not reported to police, it did not happen. That's really silly. 

That not what is being said. We’re saying that HAD she reported it to police, it would have been likely investigated much more thoroughly and fairly, for both parties. The fact that she didn’t, makes this case extremely hard to prove, harder than it would have been as there’s not even physical evidence to confirm they did have sex. A police report at the minimum would have strengthened her case exponentially, even if the college still conducted their own panel

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Nadine said:

I think the epstein case is a good example on how bad people do bad things to young girls and get away with it.  

Yes, evil is out there and believe me, as a father, it scares the crap out of me

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Nadine said:

I don't want an innocent man's life to be harmed.  

But yes, the scope of violence against women is large and it shouldn't be dismissed or trivialized.

We need to do better all around

Agreed but assuming guilt just because of an allegation isn’t justice. It’s vengence

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Nadine said:

How so?

The movement does not appear to be very forgiving.   For example, early on, Matt Damon, a Liberal and supportive to the cause, asked a public question...   must all transgressions against women be treated the same?   Must an inappropriate hug or inappropriate  touch be viewed as the same as sexual assault?    Must each wrong doing end with the man losing his job and shamed into potentially losing a career?    And the public blowback from women was astounding.   He was called tone deaf.   He was told to shut up, that women were not interested in hearing from someone like him.   And this was a supporter of the cause.   Matt shut up pretty quickly.  It was a Red Flag for me and I talked about at the time with my wife.

 

If a movement doesnt have forgiveness  at the center of its core, then I believe it will ultimately lose support of the masses.   America is a nation of forgiveness and mercy.   People want to know if they ever made a mistake that their world wouldn’t end.   That they could be given a second chance.    Without that....   I think long term success is problematic. 

 

To be clear, I’m not talking about animals like Harvey Weinstein.   He can’t be punished enough.   I’m talking about the everyday guy who gets called into HR for some offense.   Some things are felonies.   But others are just misdemeanors. 

 

And I say all this as someone who very much wants the movement to succeed.

 

Sorry the answer was so long.   You were kind to ask.... 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Nadine said:

I think the epstein case is a good example on how bad people do bad things to young girls and get away with it.  

 

Epstein?

 

Did you mean Weinstein?   The Hollywood monster,  Harvey Weinstein?

[NFLfan]

21 minutes ago, csmopar said:

That not what is being said. We’re saying that HAD she reported it to police, it would have been likely investigated much more thoroughly and fairly, for both parties. The fact that she didn’t, makes this case extremely hard to prove, harder than it would have been as there’s not even physical evidence to confirm they did have sex. A police report at the minimum would have strengthened her case exponentially, even if the college still conducted their own panel

 

I was not referring to you or to this case. I was making a general statement. A few people here implied that if someone does not report rape to the police, it may be because it did not happen.

 

As for this case, I don't believe a police report would make a difference in people's perceptions. I believe folks are latching on to this to discredit this accuser. Had she filed a police report, there would be some other reason not to believe her. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Epstein?

 

Did you mean Weinstein?   The Hollywood monster,  Harvey Weinstein?

I am a huge Cubs fan, I was like what? not Theo  

[NFLfan]

1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I dont think anyone here has said that

 

Are you sure of that? I read at least 2 comments stating that.

[NFLfan]

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Epstein?

 

Did you mean Weinstein?   The Hollywood monster,  Harvey Weinstein?

 

Epstein

 

Link: Jeffrey Epstein

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Epstein

 

Link: Jeffrey Epstein

Ok makes sense now, thanks. What a sicko.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

3 hours ago, BOTT said:

It's because what's happening on college campuses is *ic.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/colleges-slammed-with-lawsuits-from-men-accused-of-sex-crimes/

 

Yes, there are some women taking advantage of the pendulum swing, and these men shouldn't be victimized by it.

 

But at least we're moving away from the way it used to be.  I have a relative that dropped out of college because of something that happened to her at a frat party her freshmen year, and the complete lack of consequences for the frat guys that assaulted her.

 

And it seems like there is more outrage at college kids getting falsely accused of this stuff than there is about men who rot in prison for murders they didn't commit, and are finally exonerated 30 years later by DNA evidence.  Where's the outrage at the people that lied to get those men convicted?  

[NewColtsFan]

36 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Epstein

 

Link: Jeffrey Epstein

 

This is a monster.    The Criminal Justice system epically failed.   This is a terrible story that I had not heard about before.   Disgusting.   

 

Forgiveness and metcy are not words that came to mind when I read this story.    Ugh.

[Myles]

What it comes down to for me is that a alleged rape not reported should not be assumed true.  It sucks because I understand why many women would choose not to pursue it.  Lots of reasons.  But an accusation, not proved should not ruin a man's life.

[NFLfan]

16 minutes ago, Myles said:

It sucks because I understand why many women would choose not to pursue it.

 

You understand?

 

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

But an accusation, not proved should not ruin a man's life.

 

I agree with that wholeheartedly. I also don't believe anyone's life should be ruined for any one action. 

 

Btw, I wrote this earlier. I wonder who on this board was defending Jameis Winston when the woman accused him of sexual assault. 

[BOTT]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

You understand?

 

 

I agree with that wholeheartedly. I also don't believe anyone's life should be ruined for any one action. 

 

Btw, I wrote this earlier. I wonder who on this board was defending Jameis Winston when the woman accused him of sexual assault. 

Comparing this to the Jameis Winston case is apple and oranges.

[BOTT]

57 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yes, there are some women taking advantage of the pendulum swing, and these men shouldn't be victimized by it.

 

But at least we're moving away from the way it used to be.  I have a relative that dropped out of college because of something that happened to her at a frat party her freshmen year, and the complete lack of consequences for the frat guys that assaulted her.

 

And it seems like there is more outrage at college kids getting falsely accused of this stuff than there is about men who rot in prison for murders they didn't commit, and are finally exonerated 30 years later by DNA evidence.  Where's the outrage at the people that lied to get those men convicted?  

It's not about some pendulum swing. It's about university kangaroo courts deciding the guilt and innocence in rape cases. That the dept of education pushed this is mind boggling. Well, it's the govt, so not totally shocking........

[NFLfan]

4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Comparing this to the Jameis Winston case is apple and oranges.

 

How? He was not found guilty. An accusation should not ruin his life. Winston is a higher profile guy. That's it.