Bobby Okereke allegations at Stanford

[csmopar]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

They were never involved.

And there in lies the problem. One article said police were involved, another said they weren't. For the school to even investigate without law enforcement makes this all even more questionable.

[superrep1967]

6 hours ago, egg said:

 

Crimes, including rape, are matters of law enforcement to be reported to the local police department for investigation. If  evidence of a crime exists, a prosecutor brings charges. If convicted in a court of law by judge and jury, the criminal is punished.

 

This accuser apparently did not report the incident to the police, but to the college.

 

She is the one who did not take it seriously.

 

 

 

 

Great point if she really thinks she was raped she should have went to the police. If she can’t take this seriously why should anyone else. 

[jameszeigler834]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You don't that that's what happened here. No one outside of those two people really know what happened.

 

And I'd go out on a limb and say that the amount of women who are actually raped is much higher than the amount of women who falsely accuse someone of rape.

Disagree and obviously nothing of the sort happened cause hes not in jail and this happened supposedly back in 2015 since its that far back that's enough proof to me it was bullcrap.

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Disagree and obviously nothing of the sort happened cause hes not in jail and this happened supposedly back in 2015 since its that far back that's enough proof to me it was bullcrap.

 

What world do you live in?

 

You're the angriest poster here.....

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Here's a New York Times article about it from 2016:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/sports/football/stanford-football-rape-accusation.html

 

It seems like twice a jury/panel of five handed 3-2 votes decisions in favor of the accuser, but Stanford had set up the bar at 4-1 for them to take action. 

 

Since then they have changed the panels to 3 people and you need unanimous decision for them to sanction the accused. 

 

I don't think Stanford handles these situations well....

 

But, frankly,  I don't think most colleges (all of them?)  handle these situations very well.

 

Not getting law enforcement involved is a problem.

 

Then again,  to argue against my own position,  local law enforcement got involved in the Jameis Winston situation (rape charge?)   And even they handled it poorly.    It read like one of thoe bad novels about small town justice in the South....     this is the way we do things here....   we have our own way of handling things.

 

That was the tone in that story that I took away from that....

 

[MikeCurtis]

9 hours ago, Buck Showalter said:

Right, because history has shown to side with, vindicate, & bring justice & piece of mind to victims of rape...

I truly HOPE... that YOU (Or your son) dont get caught up where public opinion, or media sensation .....NOT Rule of Law take over.....  

 

You might change your tone

 

If you are guilty.... you need to pay the crime

 

if you are NOT guilty ....... you need to be protected as the law of the land that YOU live in prescribes......

 

Beyond a reasonable doubt.........

 

Sheeze

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

8 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

No one’s suggesting otherwise, but if this were a draft pick from a division rival, or say, the New England Patriots, I could see the “innocent until proven guilty” crowd singing a different tune all together.

I dont think so....... I dont like the Patriots.... Not at all

 

If Tom Brady was somehow accused of sexual misconduct, he deserves his time in court...... 

 

If he is guilty, he should pay the consequence...... no mercy given

 

But..... he shouldnt have his reputation ruined because of an allegation...... thats not fair

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MTC]

All I'll say is that I trust Ballard's judgement here. 

[shasta519]

10 hours ago, Nulled said:

 

I'd love to get the statistics on false reports on athletes that will soon likely be millionaires. Not all accusations are created equal.

 

He was a freshman in college at the time.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Great point if she really thinks she was raped she should have went to the police. If she can’t take this seriously why should anyone else. 

 

Seriously? There are many reasons why women don't report sexual assault to law enforcement.

[shasta519]

This is a tough situation. If you read the article, it says that Okereke sent a message on Facebook asking a friend of the girl to say she was "blacked out." Not sure what to make of that part.

[rock8591]

1 hour ago, shastamasta said:

 

Seriously? There are many reasons why women don't report sexual assault to law enforcement.

 

If you're the one accusing someone of a crime, the onus is on you to prove it, not for the accused to disprove it before you even accuse them. If a victim does not want to report an incident to the police, it would make me severely question the integrity of the allegation.

 

Not reporting to police = incident didn't happen in all legal sense. Common sense tells us the person is lying.

 

Is there a chance that *some* women don't report sexual assault to the police? Of course. There's also the chance I could be playing for the Golden State Warriors tomorrow night.

[chrisfarley]

troubling, especially after reading the following:  three of the five panelists believed a sexual assault occurred. The accuser was reportedly angry about the decision and eventually left Stanford to avoid having to see Okereke on campus.  Edit: two hearings with same result 3-2 vote , third hearing that the accuser wanted was denied.  must have a 4-1 vote.

 

but we do not know what his side of the story was...the Colts probably either didn't ask specifics of what happened and went the "it was 4 years ago and look what he's accomplished now" route,,,,,or they did extreme homework on this and grilled him about every detail.  hoping the latter and he was forthcoming and honest and this will all get put out to pasture.  if she surfaces again, it's going to be a media-blitz, game-over.  guilty or not.  I find it interesting that the Colts web-site isn't touching this with a 10-foot pole as far as having it on their "latest news" section. But it is here in this forum as part of the Colts' website to debate, which is fair.

 

EDIT:  just found this, makes me feel like they definitely got all the details directly from him.

"He was very honest about his side of the story and what occurred and how he had to move forward," Ballard said. "It's a very sensitive subject and it's hard, I get that.

Ballard added: "We talked it through and at the end of the day it falls on me."

[Buck Showalter]

3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I truly HOPE... that YOU (Or your son) dont get caught up where public opinion, or media sensation .....NOT Rule of Law take over.....  

 

You might change your tone

 

If you are guilty.... you need to pay the crime

 

if you are NOT guilty ....... you need to be protected as the law of the land that YOU live in prescribes......

 

Beyond a reasonable doubt.........

 

Sheeze

 

 

Id rather have to defend an innocent son than have to console a victimized daughter...

Its sad that we live in a world where either situations exist...

I hope Okereke is truly innocent...

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

51 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

 

If you're the one accusing someone of a crime, the onus is on you to prove it, not for the accused to disprove it before you even accuse them. If a victim does not want to report an incident to the police, it would make me severely question the integrity of the allegation.

 

Not reporting to police = incident didn't happen in all legal sense. Common sense tells us the person is lying.

 

Is there a chance that *some* women don't report sexual assault to the police? Of course. There's also the chance I could be playing for the Golden State Warriors tomorrow night.

 

Dear God....    this is embarrassing.

 

It’s thinking like this that make women not want to report.    

[BOTT]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think Stanford handles these situations well....

 

But, frankly,  I don't think most colleges (all of them?)  handle these situations very well.

 

Not getting law enforcement involved is a problem.

 

Then again,  to argue against my own position,  local law enforcement got involved in the Jameis Winston situation (rape charge?)   And even they handled it poorly.    It read like one of thoe bad novels about small town justice in the South....     this is the way we do things here....   we have our own way of handling things.

 

That was the tone in that story that I took away from that....

 

I thought it read like how celebrities get treated in LA......

[BOTT]

If you are young man heading off to college, here is some advice.....only have sex with the townies lol

[rock8591]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dear God....    this is embarrassing.

 

It’s thinking like this that make women not want to report.    

 

Occam's razor.

 

What's more likely in reality? Person doesn't want to talk to police because they know they're lying, and don't want to get in trouble?

 

Or some modern day pseudoscientific theory that they feel ashamed, guilty, and are reluctant to speak up?

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am not sure this can even be proven if something bad did happen? The article says it supposedly happened in 2015, that was 4 years ago. Police never got involved either. Ballard knew about this before drafting him so apparently it didn't prevent him from doing so. If Ballard thought this would be a big deal or be an issue moving forward would he had drafted this kid? I highly doubt it. JMO.

 

Innocent until proven guilty is how look it at, there is really no evidence Bob did anything wrong.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

30 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

Id rather have to defend an innocent son than have to console a victimized daughter...

Its sad that we live in a world where either situations exist...

I hope Okereke is truly innocent...

 

 

For me it’s not about whether he’s innocent or guilty, because at this point that’s clearly never going to be proven. It’s about whether someone with this type of allegation in his past deserves a once in a lifetime opportunity like playing in the NFL simply because he has unique athletic talent.

[chrisfarley]

15 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

For me it’s not about whether he’s innocent or guilty, because at this point that’s clearly never going to be proven. It’s about whether someone with this type of allegation in his past deserves a once in a lifetime opportunity like playing in the NFL simply because he has unique athletic talent.

Well, just look at all the allegations against players who ARE in the NFL, then the answer to your last question is yes, but not simply because he has unique athletic talent,,,it's because people deserve a 2nd chance (or more) AND he is (and they are) talented enough to play at the NFL level.

[NFLfan]

 

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Dear God....    this is embarrassing.

 

It’s thinking like this that make women not want to report.    

 

Imagine if that poster Rock8591 is a member of the police force. A woman who had just been raped would not feel encouraged to report a rape to him. He would not believe it.

 

It sounds like many folks here believe rape does not really happen. Like you, I'm a Stanford fan and would hate it if this story was true. I recall reading that article in the NY Times when it was written and wondering who that could be. Now we know. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, rock8591 said:

 

Occam's razor.

 

What's more likely in reality? Person doesn't want to talk to police because they know they're lying, and don't want to get in trouble?

 

Or some modern day pseudoscientific theory that they feel ashamed, guilty, and are reluctant to speak up?

 

This is getting worse for you, not better.    

 

Many women men don’t speak up because if viewpoints like yours.   Straight out if the 1950’s.

 

Nice how you present the two options for women as Lose-lose.   Mighty kind of you.   

[NannyMcafee]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

You don't that that's what happened here. No one outside of those two people really know what happened.

 

And I'd go out on a limb and say that the amount of women who are actually raped is much higher than the amount of women who falsely accuse someone of rape.

 

 

While that may be true, it wouldnt be the first or last time someone tried to get a settlement from a future wealthy individual. 

 

In the end, is there any current Information regarding this or is it all 4 years old? Imo if you have the guts to talk about this to the college (speaking of the supposed victim) she would have the guts to talk to the police about it. If the college wouldnt listen after 2 different cases, and she did in fact actually get raped by the man, her next step was to talk to law enforcement. She didnt talk to them. Not once in 4 years has she talked to law enforcement... Should a man be investigated for rape when the victim herself is unwilling to talk to law enforcement? 

 

Is it hard to talk about these things being a victim? Absolutely. Does that change what is needed in order to get a man who has raoed you behind bars? Absolutely not. The world might not like that, but everyone knows that is what it takes. You have to talk about it. She chose to stop talking about it. She let the man go. Not law enforcement.

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

For me it’s not about whether he’s innocent or guilty, because at this point that’s clearly never going to be proven. It’s about whether someone with this type of allegation in his past deserves a once in a lifetime opportunity like playing in the NFL simply because he has unique athletic talent.

So you're saying that you're okay with an unproven allegation should have his/her life destroyed because of the unproven allegation?

 

Let's propose a hypothetical.  Lets say I accuse you of an affair because I saw you walking a girl out of bar with her arm draped over your shoulder.  I post it all over social media. Your boss sees it, fires you, without so much as asking about it.  When this gets back to your wife, however, it is learned that the girl in the picture is actually your sister, who called you for a ride home after getting too drunk to drive herself home.  Now, how fair/right was it for your boss to fire you base on my unfounded allegation?

 

This is why innocent until proven guilty is such a big deal. Now, here is another case.  Remember Josh McNary? The West point grad , played for the Colts, who was accused of rape only for that to be disproven?  

 

I've dealt with these types of investigations my entire career. I have seen this play out both ways. I've seen women traumatized and utterly destroyed by rape/sexual assault and I've seen the other side of the coin, where an innocent person's life was destroyed by false allegations.  That's why I really wish there was a law restricting the reporting on this stuff, at least until the investigations and trial hit. 

 

I'll add this story as well.  Locally, about 15 years ago, there was a young man working at a gym in town that provided childcare for kids while their parents worked out. One day, after working out at the gym, a few hours later, this lady takes her 4 year old daughter to the hospital, little girl had been raped and beaten.   The mom stated it happened while she was in the care of the gym's daycare, and accused the young man, 19 at the time, of the crime.  Immediately, his name, face, address etc all were online and in the news. He was put in jail, put on the sex offender watch list when he posted bail. Lost his job, evicted from his apartment, which was nearby a school. He was in college at the time, the college expelled him, His fiance called off the wedding. 

 

2 years passed before the State finally got the DNA evidence back... guess what, the semen wasn't his.  It was the semen of the little girl's own step father....  Naturally, all the charges were dropped.  But this young man, in a community of 25,000 people, was black list, spent nearly 2 months in jail until he could post his bail.  For a crime he did not commit, based solely of the allegations of one individual. Even though he was proven innocent, the best job he's been able to get, a stock boy at the local wal-mart.

 

So do you see why I say, innocent until proven guilty matters and that someone's should not be punished until it is proven they committed the crime they are accused of?

 

There are ALWAYS 3 sides to every story/allegation etc.  Person A's side, Person's B side and somewhere in between, its the factual truth.  The first two sides are ALWAYS the quickest to come out and are the ones picked up by the media, truth usually takes much longer

[shasta519]

10 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

If you're the one accusing someone of a crime, the onus is on you to prove it, not for the accused to disprove it before you even accuse them. If a victim does not want to report an incident to the police, it would make me severely question the integrity of the allegation.

 

Not reporting to police = incident didn't happen in all legal sense. Common sense tells us the person is lying.

 

Is there a chance that *some* women don't report sexual assault to the police? Of course. There's also the chance I could be playing for the Golden State Warriors tomorrow night.

 

Is this a serious response?

 

There are reports of upwards of 92% of rapes going unreported. It happens all the time...just look at recent high profile cases of women whose assault occurred decades ago and went unreported. 

 

Women obviously have their reasons for not reporting it...because they do so quite often.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

Is this a serious response?

 

There are reports of upwards of 92% of rapes going unreported. It happens all the time...just look at recent high profile cases of women whose assault occurred decades ago and went unreported. 

 

Women obviously have their reasons for not reporting it...because they do so quite often.

As someone with experience with these things, this is very true.  Large number of rapes go unreported or under reported. As an investigator, rape/sexual assault allegations are one of the toughest crimes to investigate.  For a multitude of reasons. I just wrapped one up in Dec that made my blood boil.  So I get it.

 

But that said, and to be fair, he is right.  It is on the accuser to prove the crime happened.  The burden of proof rests with the prosecution and unless the accuser can provide details/evidence etc to that prosecutor or the investigator, legally speaking, the crime didn't happen.  Does not always mean that SOMETHING didn't happen, just means it can't be proven. Thus, the presumption of innocent until proven guilty.   Unfortunately, some genuine rapists have gotten away with it and just as unfortunate, the wrong person was accused and punished, or the allegation was fabricated. 

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

So you're saying that you're okay with an unproven allegation should have his/her life destroyed because of the unproven allegation?

 

Let's propose a hypothetical.  Lets say I accuse you of an affair because I saw you walking a girl out of bar with her arm draped over your shoulder.  I post it all over social media. Your boss sees it, fires you, without so much as asking about it.  When this gets back to your wife, however, it is learned that the girl in the picture is actually your sister, who called you for a ride home after getting too drunk to drive herself home.  Now, how fair/right was it for your boss to fire you base on my unfounded allegation?

 

This is why innocent until proven guilty is such a big deal. Now, here is another case.  Remember Josh McNary? The West point grad , played for the Colts, who was accused of rape only for that to be disproven?  

 

I've dealt with these types of investigations my entire career. I have seen this play out both ways. I've seen women traumatized and utterly destroyed by rape/sexual assault and I've seen the other side of the coin, where an innocent person's life was destroyed by false allegations.  That's why I really wish there was a law restricting the reporting on this stuff, at least until the investigations and trial hit. 

 

I'll add this story as well.  Locally, about 15 years ago, there was a young man working at a gym in town that provided childcare for kids while their parents worked out. One day, after working out at the gym, a few hours later, this lady takes her 4 year old daughter to the hospital, little girl had been raped and beaten.   The mom stated it happened while she was in the care of the gym's daycare, and accused the young man, 19 at the time, of the crime.  Immediately, his name, face, address etc all were online and in the news. He was put in jail, put on the sex offender watch list when he posted bail. Lost his job, evicted from his apartment, which was nearby a school. He was in college at the time, the college expelled him, His fiance called off the wedding. 

 

2 years passed before the State finally got the DNA evidence back... guess what, the semen wasn't his.  It was the semen of the little girl's own step father....  Naturally, all the charges were dropped.  But this young man, in a community of 25,000 people, was black list, spent nearly 2 months in jail until he could post his bail.  For a crime he did not commit, based solely of the allegations of one individual. Even though he was proven innocent, the best job he's been able to get, a stock boy at the local wal-mart.

 

So do you see why I say, innocent until proven guilty matters and that someone's should not be punished until it is proven they committed the crime they are accused of?

 

The fact that literally everyone turned their back on that guy is sad. I hope he bounced from that town and never looked back.

 

But in this case, I don’t think it can be proven. I think it comes down to whether the sex was consensual or not.  ..not whether it happened. So it’s basically he said...she said.

 

I agree that innocent until proven guilty...but the majority of a 5-person panel did decide in her favor. And his actions afterwards (Facebook posts to get people to lie,

lying himself about conversations) make it sort of fuzzy for me.

 

But one of us know what happened...and will never know. 

[shasta519]

11 minutes ago, csmopar said:

As someone with experience with these things, this is very true.  Large number of rapes go unreported or under reported. As an investigator, rape/sexual assault allegations are one of the toughest crimes to investigate.  For a multitude of reasons. I just wrapped one up in Dec that made my blood boil.  So I get it.

 

But that said, and to be fair, he is right.  It is on the accuser to prove the crime happened.  The burden of proof rests with the prosecution and unless the accuser can provide details/evidence etc to that prosecutor or the investigator, legally speaking, the crime didn't happen.  Does not always mean that SOMETHING didn't happen, just means it can't be proven. Thus, the presumption of innocent until proven guilty.   Unfortunately, some genuine rapists have gotten away with it and just as unfortunate, the wrong person was accused and punished, or the allegation was fabricated. 

 

This is not my area of expertise...but it would appear that in addition to the low percentage of rapes that actually get reported, there is also a very low percentage of felony convictions. And given that most victims deal with physical and emotional issues stemming from it, I can understand why many would not report it and risk exacerbating those issues (or worse) for a very small chance at a conviction.

 

Just seems like a very hard case to prove when they are both adults (even with rape kits). 

 

My response to the guy above was more about the silly comparison between his 0% chance of ever playing for the Warriors vs. a women not reporting a rape. It’s not only wrong...but he is implying that any women who doesn’t is lying.

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I agree that innocent until proven guilty...but the majority of a 5-person panel did decide in her favor. And his actions afterwards (Facebook posts to get people to lie,

lying himself about conversations) make it sort of fuzzy for me.

 

But one of us know what happened...and will never know. 

You are correct, no one will ever know the truth. Because she failed to report it to law enforcement. and a panel on a college is not a legal/criminal trial nor investigation. And that fact that a majority did, 3 out of 5, if one were to apply that to a criminal jury trial, that is a hung jury. Which means, acquittal because there is DOUBT as to whether the crime happened or not. 

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

This is not my area of expertise...but it would appear that in addition to the low percentage of rapes that actually get reported, there is also a very low percentage of felony convictions. And given that most victims deal with physical and emotional issues stemming from it, I can understand why many would not report it and risk exacerbating those issues (or worse) for a very small chance at a conviction.

 

Just seems like a very hard case to prove when they are both adults (even with rape kits). 

 

My response to the guy above was more about the silly comparison between his 0% chance of ever playing for the Warriors vs. a women not reporting a rape. It’s not only wrong...but he is implying that any women who doesn’t is lying.

You are 100% correct. Rape cases are extremely difficult to prove, especially when its adults.  As sickening as they are, cases involving minors are actually easier to get convictions on, because a minor cannot consent. Cases such as this, where allegedly a woman initially gave consent for sex to take place, but during intercourse, withdrawals that consent are almost impossible to charge, let alone convict. 

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

You have to talk about it. She chose to stop talking about it.

 

Why do you think she should continue to talk about it? Rape is traumatic. It is not like law enforcement officials are that empathic. 

 

2 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

Imo if you have the guts to talk about this to the college (speaking of the supposed victim) she would have the guts to talk to the police about it.

 

No. Police officers often make victims feel worse. 

[Myles]

12 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

If you're the one accusing someone of a crime, the onus is on you to prove it, not for the accused to disprove it before you even accuse them. If a victim does not want to report an incident to the police, it would make me severely question the integrity of the allegation.

 

Not reporting to police = incident didn't happen in all legal sense. Common sense tells us the person is lying.

 

Is there a chance that *some* women don't report sexual assault to the police? Of course. There's also the chance I could be playing for the Golden State Warriors tomorrow night.

She asked for it, right?   Man your post comes off very crappy.  To insinuate that you playing for the Warriors is anywhere close to the same odds as woman not reporting rape is so far gone.  

 

I will say that when it goes unreported, we shouldn't take a woman for her word later and hold the man responsible 100%.

[Superman]

19 hours ago, csmopar said:

I'd also add that most rapes will go unreported.  That said, I have long operated under the notion that during the investigation, there are 3 sides of every story, his side, her side and somewhere in the middle is the facts which will lead to the truth.

 

I think that's especially true in a situation where the encounter began as consensual, then the victim claims to have withdrawn consent at a later point, which is what I understand the Okereke situation to have been (per the alleged victim's claim). 

[Creekside]

10 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Imagine if that poster Rock8591 is a member of the police force. A woman who had just been raped would not feel encouraged to report a rape to him. He would not believe it.

 

 

 

That's not at all what he said. He said the opposite.

 

His point, is: If she had been raped she should have gone to the police.

 

Instead of treating this as the God-awful crime that rape is and go straight to the police and hope that the monster can be arrested and indicted and convicted in a court of law, she reports it to the college as if he simply violated some school policy.

 

This makes no sense to me. If it were murder, should it be up to the school to discipline the murderer for violating school policy? 

 

If I am the victim of a terrible crime, should I go to the police?...Or tell my Mom?

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think that's especially true in a situation where the encounter began as consensual, then the victim claims to have withdrawn consent at a later point, which is what I understand the Okereke situation to have been (per the alleged victim's claim). 

 

Right...the initial encounter was consensual...but only to a degree...and Okereke went past that...per her claim.  

 

Having been a single college male not "that" long ago...these types of consensual encounters are quite common...as is the women only consenting to a certain degree. But it's also not always the case either.

 

So it's impossible for anyone of us to know how it truly went down. I will admit..his actions after she made the claim are somewhat of a red flag to me...and I am surprised they weren't to Ballard as well. But I imagine they knew more details than we do right now...and still felt comfortable going forward.   

[Lucky Colts Fan]

Man, this thread (much like these he said/she said situations) is a mess.

 

[jmac_48]

11 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

For me it’s not about whether he’s innocent or guilty, because at this point that’s clearly never going to be proven. It’s about whether someone with this type of allegation in his past deserves a once in a lifetime opportunity like playing in the NFL simply because he has unique athletic talent.

So an unprovable allegation disqualifies a young man from pursuing his dream and future earnings? Sounds like you are presuming guilt...

Sad state of affairs in the world these days!

Most of the time I respect what you have to say around here, but this is way off target.

Sorry!

[csmopar]

37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think that's especially true in a situation where the encounter began as consensual, then the victim claims to have withdrawn consent at a later point, which is what I understand the Okereke situation to have been (per the alleged victim's claim). 

Yep, plus we don't have the specifics as to what caused her to withdraw it either.  There is a case pending in NY as we speak right now, where the encounter was consentual all the way through, right up until he ejaculated inside of her.  She's filed charges because she told him to pull out first... so its going to be interesting to see how they proceed with it.

 

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Right...the initial encounter was consensual...but only to a degree...and Okereke went past that...per her claim.  

 

Having been a single college male not "that" long ago...these types of consensual encounters are quite common...as is the women only consenting to a certain degree. But it's also not always the case either.

 

So it's impossible for anyone of us to know how it truly went down. I will admit..his actions after she made the claim are somewhat of a red flag to me...and I am surprised they weren't to Ballard as well. But I imagine they knew more details than we do right now...and still felt comfortable going forward.   

 

Just to clarify, I'm not taking either side on this. I read the story and understand how Okereke's actions after the encounter, during the process and afterward were framed, but I don't have enough information to have formed any opinion of what anyone did in this situation.

 

I was speaking more in generalities, and about one of the elements that would have made this situation more difficult to figure out and navigate.

 

Specific to Ballard, I definitely don't think he or the team were just so enamored with this player that they rationalized their way through the process. I'm giving them more credit than that, and assuming that when they say they did their due diligence, it means they performed an honest assessment based on the information available to them.