I think Okereke is going to start

[JPFolks]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

Im a big Walker fan Jamz but i have to say i like Okereke a lot. Walker is going to have to play damn good football to hold him off. To be honest at some point if Speed pans out like im thinking he will I could even see Speed, Okereke and Leonard starting together. I believe we are trying to build an athletic linebacking crew like Dallas has.

Don't you think that with all these guys varied skill sets that who starts is less relevant than how multiple guys sub in situationally during the game? They seem to have specific skills in mind for moving these guys all around the defense in special schemes for special situations.  

[AwesomeAustin]

I don’t care who starts.  We have invested a lot of draft capital the past few years in defense and I hope we start seeing improvement.  Player development was lacking under Pagano.  I hope it improves with the new regime. Getting better is the key and it doesn’t matter if a higher draft pick is the starter or if we run multiple sub packages. Even if a draft pick doesn’t pan out as a starter, if they can contribute well on special teams and a reserve roll they will have value.  

[krunk]

21 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Don't you think that with all these guys varied skill sets that who starts is less relevant than how multiple guys sub in situationally during the game? They seem to have specific skills in mind for moving these guys all around the defense in special schemes for special situations.  

Maybe but to my knowledge we dont really do that with our backers. The starters are usually who you see out there. We dont really rotate them in and out. They may create some new packages for specific matchups. Not sure.

[krunk]

38 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

In like 2 or three years.  Speed has a big jump to make in competition.   Love walker but that would be cool too 

You may be surprised. All he needs is a good training camp and preseason and they will find more ways to get him in the mix. Hes already fast, a physical and what seems like a sure tackler along with being athletic and instinctive. Thats most(not all) of what you need. If Ballard really thought this was a 2-3 year project i think he waits until Rd 7 or UDFA to pick the kid up.

[MFT5]

31 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Don't you think that with all these guys varied skill sets that who starts is less relevant than how multiple guys sub in situationally during the game? They seem to have specific skills in mind for moving these guys all around the defense in special schemes for special situations.  

 

“Don’t you think ...” means you don’t even care about the answer. You’re looking for someone to agree w your point. Either find a better way to present your thought or don’t speak 

[Peterk2011]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I know...   based on opinion that has no facts to support it.    Anywhere. 

 

But there are are all sorts of stories talking about B.B. being used as a “chess piece” or wild card,  or jack of all trades and you two have chosen to ignore them for reasons I don’t understand?   

 

I don't think there's a big difference in what you guys say. As of now, Banogu is not ready to play DE, he's very raw, does not yet have a true pass rush move, etc. So they'll use him in spec team, at SAM and as kinda a jolly joker, so he can rush the passer helped by scheme/personnel rather than using his individual pass rushing abilities. The Colts did similar things with Mathis in the beginning of his carreer. He wasn't a full time DE until his 3rd year opposite to Freeney, who was a DE from day 1.

[lollygagger8]

Sweet! 

 

Sounds like they actually watched tape, identified that they were getting ate up by TE's and on crossing routes.

 

What a breath of fresh air compared to the old 3-4 defense! 

[krunk]

42 minutes ago, krunk said:

Maybe but to my knowledge we dont really do that with our backers. The starters are usually who you see out there. We dont really rotate them in and out. They may create some new packages for specific matchups. Not sure.

If we substitute its usually a safety like Geathers playing underneath in Nickel along with Leonard.

[krunk]

44 minutes ago, krunk said:

Maybe but to my knowledge we dont really do that with our backers. The starters are usually who you see out there. We dont really rotate them in and out. They may create some new packages for specific matchups. Not sure.

 

1 hour ago, JPFolks said:

Don't you think that with all these guys varied skill sets that who starts is less relevant than how multiple guys sub in situationally during the game? They seem to have specific skills in mind for moving these guys all around the defense in special schemes for special situations.  

If we substitute its usually a safety like Geathers playing underneath in Nickel along with Leonard.

[Matthew Gilbert]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

In like 2 or three years.  Speed has a big jump to make in competition.   Love walker but that would be cool too 

We could have certainly said the same thing about Leonard last year as well.

[Valpo2004]

I think he certainly has a chance to earn a starting job in camp.  

 

Colts are going to have some really good, fast, sideline to sideline linebackers.  

[Defjamz26]

11 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I'm not sure you'd wanna move Leonard when he just made 300,000 tackles and an All-Pro operating as the WILL. Okereke is athletic and talented, but I think you see him and Banogu in situational packages this year, however I'd love to be wrong and they both just make All-Pro with Q and Leonard. Wouldn't that be great, have classes back to back where you just landed stud All-Pro guys everywhere haha. Ballard would become a demigod lol.

Oh I didn’t mean long term. I meant certain packages. I’d never move Leonard from WILL permanently.

[Coltsfan1953]

28 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

I think he certainly has a chance to earn a starting job in camp.  

 

Colts are going to have some really good, fast, sideline to sideline linebackers.  

I'm wondering if we will have trouble with teams running right at us. It seems like the LBs are fast but not all that big. Dungy's defenses seem to have that trouble.

[krunk]

6 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Then why aren't we doing that now?     The Colts think they have a special weapon,  and you want to make him a more simple player.    From unique,  to a player there are several of....

 

Sorry,  but I don't get that.     

 

You may ultimately end up being right....   but I think the Colts are hoping this experimen works,  and that it will always be this way.....

 

That's kind of like asking "why did we start off using Clayton Geathers as a dime linebacker"? As if he was going to remain that for the rest of his career.  You know at some point they will use him more as a traditional safety than the Dime Backer(we haven't completely eliminated using him that way) stuff.  Again the point is when you have that much athleticism and freakish traits in your linebacking corps you have to find ways for them all to see the field. And we are just making some assumptions here of what's possible because it remains to be seen what Speed will be.  My contention is if you have a skilled 6'4" inch linebacker that runs 4.5/4.6 that guy is more likely going to be better in coverage then your edge rusher(Banogu). 

 

Let the edge rusher do what he does best which is rush the passer from different angles and positions.  How do we know that's what he does best?  Because he's got multiple 8 plus sack campaigns and plenty of TFL which means his best use is around the line of scrimmage. On the flip side and at the same time you can take that 6'4" athletic linebacker and play man to man on tight ends and RB and that probably wouldn't even be a mismatch. I think it's better to get the best of both worlds.  We are going to have different packages anyway so I don't think they will take Banogu completely out of the hybrid role. Over the course of the season I just expect they may reduce how much he does that or maybe even eliminate it at all if we have use of a weapon like Speed.  I just think you should find ways to maximize the skill sets of both players if that makes any sense.

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

21 minutes ago, Coltsfan1953 said:

I'm wondering if we will have trouble with teams running right at us. It seems like the LBs are fast but not all that big. Dungy's defenses seem to have that trouble.

 

People say this, but the Colts were 8th last year against the run (yardage per game, 101.9...only 6 teams were under 100), so teams weren't gashing them; they just became more athletic, and hopefully sound, on the defensive side. So, why would we start getting gashed now? For reference, their run D was better than the Chargers, Patriots, Panthers, Seahawks, Rams, and every team in the division sans Houston, who obviously has a ridiculously athletic front. I think the Colts are similarly athletic now in their front 7, and wouldn't be surprised to see the Colts mirror the Texans run defense from a year ago (they were Top 3). 

[Coltsfan1953]

I hope you are right but it seems like smaller fast LBs end up getting run over a lot. Hopefully, we will be so far ahead that the opponents won't be able to run the ball. 

[krunk]

Why Colts used three draft picks on linebackers?

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/05/01/indianapolis-colts-linebacker-nfl-draft-bobby-okereke-ben-banogu-ej-speed-darius-leonard/3638296002/

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

People say this, but the Colts were 8th last year against the run (yardage per game, 101.9...only 6 teams were under 100), so teams weren't gashing them; they just became more athletic, and hopefully sound, on the defensive side. So, why would we start getting gashed now? For reference, their run D was better than the Chargers, Patriots, Panthers, Seahawks, Rams, and every team in the division sans Houston, who obviously has a ridiculously athletic front. I think the Colts are similarly athletic now in their front 7, and wouldn't be surprised to see the Colts mirror the Texans run defense from a year ago (they were Top 3). 

Yes 8th is certainly awesome but every year is a new year.  They say we are playing a tougher schedule this year.  But who really knows.  I really like the LB'rs we drafted.  If you ask me Leonard is the only safe starter from last year.  Everyone else is in a dogfight.  Defending against the run I have always liked having big strong DT's. That's where it starts.  No attention this year to that position so far.  But there is still plenty of time left for that to happen.  I'm feeling real good about our defense right now. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

....and don't forget Skai Moore. He's a baller.

[Fisticuffs111]

I'm not Walker's biggest fan but I think it's important to note his football IQ and his familiarity with the scheme.

I think Okereke could start eventually if not by his 2nd season, he along with Khari Willis for instance seem like QB's on defense to some degree, but as for their rookie seasons? I think Walker holds onto the spot unless he's just completely outplayed by Okereke. Leonard's constant praise of Walker's football IQ/leadership on defense is something that sticks out. Although I know Leonard's said he wants to be able to be that guy as well going forward, so yeah.

I won't be totally surprised if Okereke starts though, I think he probably was drafted to be a long term starter. And even if he doesn't I think we'll see him on the field often.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

How Lucky are we to be arguing over how all the talent will be used instead of complaining about a glaring lack of talent? 

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

Not ignoring anything.

 

Best players play. Why draft two more linebackers with similar skill sets to your WILL if you don't intend on playing them. And if by playing them it forces an extremely talented guy like BB to line up at DE then I doubt they would even bat an eye about what was said on draft day.

 

In that regard, they also said Lewis was drafted to be an undertackle yet he played right defensive end last year because that is where he was needed AND it got the best players on the field at the time. Nobody complained or said whoa - you said he was gonna be a UT, why is he at end?

 

They've also said he's had no pass rush techniques taught, just scheme at TCU. So by keeping him in a similar scheme as a "chess piece" then he doesn't have to redshirt his rookie year while learning said techniques.

 

Just reading the tea leaves and just my opinion!

 

 

 

 

  Sorry, but you are also ignoring Lewis was drafted to play DE.

And with the expectation that he could be used inside on passing downs.

[Fluke_33]

5 hours ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

We could have certainly said the same thing about Leonard last year as well.

 

Didnt leonard play against Clemson and had like 20 tackles?  The tape I’ve seen of speed looks like on a high school field. 

 

But i I get your point and Hope so! 

[jameszeigler834]

10 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I did compare builds - literally in all 4 responses.

 

Then used common sense in explaining the MIKE is speed based and not size based and used two of the bests names who played the Tampa 2 with speed as examples.

 

Would you have preferred that I listed Gary Brackett (5'11" & 235) or Jerrell Freeman (6'0" & 236) instead? 

 

Again, Walker is 6'1" and 242.......Okereke is 6'1" and 239. Three (3) pounds is not a huge difference. 

 

 

 

 

Walker was decent last year but he was responsible for running back screens and some of the reason why we got murdered by tight ends last year he is not very good in coverage Okereke is by far a better Athlete than Walker and better instincts in coverage I bet he takes his starting job by late in the year if not sooner.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think it’s funny everyone is putting these draft picks on such a high pedestal. It’s fun to be excited but let’s see them play first. Walker had over 100 tackles. He is a very good compliment to Leonard. 

[hoosierhawk]

14 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

you compared okereke to  Urlacher. that's a non starter.

not saying waker is a long term answer, but do me a favor, compare the build of both and you'll see the difference especially in the lower body. walker has a lot of thickness that okereke does not.

Nowhere did he make that comparison. I think some people hang around here just to pick a fight.

[Defjamz26]

16 hours ago, krunk said:

Im a big Walker fan Jamz but i have to say i like Okereke a lot. Walker is going to have to play damn good football to hold him off. To be honest at some point if Speed pans out like im thinking he will I could even see Speed, Okereke and Leonard starting together. I believe we are trying to build an athletic linebacking crew like Dallas has.

I’m a Walker fan too. I thought he should have got the start over Morrison his rookie year. This is by no means an indictment on Walker. He’s great. But Okereke next to Leonard could be special. Walker can play SAM and move around in different packages. Okereke just has too much upside. 

[shasta519]

I hope so. Been saying this all along that they need to give Leonard a new running mate. Colts get shredded by TEs and RBs in the passing game. Obviously they recognized this because half of their picks (3 LBs, 2 Ss) are guys that should help improve this area.

 

I think Walker is a SAM playing MIKE. He doesn't have the cover skills for MIKE. And that seems to be a strength for Okereke...and likely what will get him on the field sooner rather than later.

 

Something great that came out of this draft is that they now they have legit depth at each LB position where they really had no depth before:

 

Leonard, Moore and Speed can play WILL. Okereke and Walker can play MIKE. Walker, Banogu and Adams can all play SAM.

 

Going to be an interesting camp to see how it shakes out.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

4 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

How Lucky are we to be arguing over how all the talent will be used instead of complaining about a glaring lack of talent? 

 

It's not luck when you have ballard building the team.

[throwing BBZ]

15 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

It's not luck when you have ballard building the team.

 

 I am with you there. I just think it is a minor miracle Irsay got him to come here and had the sense to quit Mentoring his GM. As is said, what a game changer.

[EastStreet]

13 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I did compare builds - literally in all 4 responses.

 

Then used common sense in explaining the MIKE is speed based and not size based and used two of the bests names who played the Tampa 2 with speed as examples.

 

Would you have preferred that I listed Gary Brackett (5'11" & 235) or Jerrell Freeman (6'0" & 236) instead? 

 

Again, Walker is 6'1" and 242.......Okereke is 6'1" and 239. Three (3) pounds is not a huge difference. 

height and weight are not the end all be all of "build". build is how it is proportioned.

 

here's the NFL.com's draft notes on both.

 

Quote

Okereke

Undersized but instinctive and rangy, Okerke plays fast and is generally on the right track with his initial reads and response to play development. While he's fairly sound from a technical standpoint, his lack of size and strength shows up in both tackling and downhill duties against blockers. He has adequate talent to drop and cover in space and his experience on special teams gives him a shot to become a quality NFL backup.

Weaknesses

Undersized as inside linebacker

Below-average base to maintain contact balance

 

Quote

 

Walker

Carries NFL thickness throughout his frame. Adequate straight-line pursuit speed. Flashes burst gear to close out runners looking to get the corner. Smart player with excellent work ethic. Considered a great teammate and leader. Instinctive downhill runner, and productive. Always looking to play tackles near the line of scrimmage. Works around second-level blocks with limp inside shoulder and upper body turn, causing blockers to miss the target and fall forward. Able to adjust path to the ball in space. Instinctive with good peripheral vision. Outstanding field awareness. Urgent helper on wide receiver screens and hitches. Plays with balanced eyes in coverage, darting between his coverage area and the quarterback's eyes. Crowds target in his area, but willing to come off and hustle to a passing lane if he reads pass. Has 16 passes defensed over his three years.

 

Has packed muscle onto his frame that looks good in the uniform but might be limiting his flexibility and athletic ability. A productive, downhill linebacker who misses too many tackles and struggles as a take-on player. He checks all the desired boxes for football and personal character and can be counted on to do what it takes to improve his game. He could become a decent starting linebacker within his first few years.

 

 

Okereke build

 

 

Anthony walker build. His legs are tree thick

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

That's kind of like asking "why did we start off using Clayton Geathers as a dime linebacker"? As if he was going to remain that for the rest of his career.  You know at some point they will use him more as a traditional safety than the Dime Backer(we haven't completely eliminated using him that way) stuff.  Again the point is when you have that much athleticism and freakish traits in your linebacking corps you have to find ways for them all to see the field. And we are just making some assumptions here of what's possible because it remains to be seen what Speed will be.  My contention is if you have a skilled 6'4" inch linebacker that runs 4.5/4.6 that guy is more likely going to be better in coverage then your edge rusher(Banogu). 

 

Let the edge rusher do what he does best which is rush the passer from different angles and positions.  How do we know that's what he does best?  Because he's got multiple 8 plus sack campaigns and plenty of TFL which means his best use is around the line of scrimmage. On the flip side and at the same time you can take that 6'4" athletic linebacker and play man to man on tight ends and RB and that probably wouldn't even be a mismatch. I think it's better to get the best of both worlds.  We are going to have different packages anyway so I don't think they will take Banogu completely out of the hybrid role. Over the course of the season I just expect they may reduce how much he does that or maybe even eliminate it at all if we have use of a weapon like Speed.  I just think you should find ways to maximize the skill sets of both players if that makes any sense.

 

 Having watched parts of several games, Banogu won't be able to do much as a DE.
As CB said, chase the QB perhaps.
 I do see him competing for the strong side LB position that we were really weak at last season and in short yardage situations.

[throwing BBZ]

3 minutes ago, Irish YJ said:

height and weight are not the end all be all of "build". build is how it is proportioned.

 

here's the NFL.com's draft notes on both.

 

 

 

Okereke build

 

 

Anthony walker build. His legs are tree thick

 

 I think Walker should be very proud of his play once our D settled into their roles.
He will likely be pulled often in sure passing situations once a faster player proves himself.
And that could be Geathers early in the season.
CB and staff went after the big weakness at LB. They just don't miss much.

 One more solid add for the interior DLine and Boogity Boogity Boogity.

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, krunk said:

You may be surprised. All he needs is a good training camp and preseason and they will find more ways to get him in the mix. Hes already fast, a physical and what seems like a sure tackler along with being athletic and instinctive. Thats most(not all) of what you need. If Ballard really thought this was a 2-3 year project i think he waits until Rd 7 or UDFA to pick the kid up.

 

 Chuckle. They are all 2-3 year projects.

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Nowhere did he make that comparison. I think some people hang around here just to pick a fight.

Look, he's the one that felt the need to dispute my post to begin with. Then he had to throw in the "reading is fundamental" jab. if anyone was poking, it was not me. 

 

my opinion, not that it matters, is shared by NFL.com's analyst, and a lot that talked about okereke. in short, i'm not the one making bold statement and invoking all-pro players.

 

i also follow stanford pretty close being a ND junkie, so i'm more aware of what he does well and what he struggles with, than the typical fan. i even remember ND trying to get him on campus prior to him committing to the tree. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I think all three might get a ton of snaps. Will depend on the situation on the field. Leonard and walker work well together and seem to be very close off the field.

[EastStreet]

21 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Chuckle. They are all 2-3 year projects.

I think Okereke is a solid add, and will see time early in passing downs. he'll definitely help in short coverage vs TEs. But I agree, he's either a couple years project (get him some S&C), or simply a scheme add. 

 

25 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 I think Walker should be very proud of his play once our D settled into their roles.
He will likely be pulled often in sure passing situations once a faster player proves himself.
And that could be Geathers early in the season.
CB and staff went after the big weakness at LB. They just don't miss much.

 One more solid add for the interior DLine and Boogity Boogity Boogity.

Agree. Walker did pretty decent once the team started to absorb Eberflus's D. He'll likely never be a pro bowl guy, but as along as he's solid on early downs, i'm more than fine with him. I do think we'll see him improve this year. 

[compuls1v3]

20 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I still have more film work to do but from what I’ve seen, I think he is likely going to start, and possibly at MIKE. He seems to be a perfect fit for this defense and it’s easy to see the Leonard comparisons. Walker is a good player but I feel like Okereke has a higher ceiling because of his athletic traits. 

 

He seems pretty polished too. I just have this feeling that he’ll be a day 1 starter. Him next to Leonard could be something really special. Plus you could put him at WILL and let Leonard play MIKE. 

 

WITHOUT Walker in the game, it was very noticeable last year.  I feel Walker will keep his spot.

[Defjamz26]

39 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

 

WITHOUT Walker in the game, it was very noticeable last year.  I feel Walker will keep his spot.

IDK I feel like people say that about every player who starts.

[compuls1v3]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

IDK I feel like people say that about every player who starts.

Well, mostly they do START because...well...they've earned it....I just feel like he doesn't get enough credit as a player.  That is just my humble opinion though.  At the end of the day, I just want the best players to be playing their positions so we can attempt to win the SuperBowl.