Chris Ballard blew it

[Malakai432]

I don't understand the original post, lol.  I don't think Ballard screwed anything up.  I also don't think it was on him to keep Pagano, imo.  Apparently, no one knew the extent of Luck's shoulder.  I seriously doubt any coach would come in with this young, injury decimated team without their starting QB and expect to do much.  Not saying that Pagano needs to stay.  I personally he's surpassed his time here and the longer he stays the worse the locker room may get.  It seems like the team just has no fight in them, contrary to what he says.  I saw several players attempt to soft tackle, walking around on the field, little effort.  

 

Next year pending on if Luck gets healthy, Colts are likely poised to have high draft picks.  Ballard will most likely bring in his own coaching staff unless Irsay wants to keep Pagano and co around for some reason.  Unfortunately this was supposed to be a rebuild year but just due to the injuries, lack of experience it makes it very difficult.  

[HungarianColtsFan]

32 minutes ago, IndyD4U said:

 

Nem te vagy az egyetlen, aki ezt tapasztalja

 

 

Hey guys, stop using Google Translate!!!

[IndyD4U]

Just now, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

 

Hey guys, stop using Google Translate!!!

 

Busted!

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

The guy inherited a mess on par with the Browns. Give him some time 

[chrisfarley]

Ballard must own all of his decisions up to this point, Pagano is NOT one of them, Pagano was a grandfather from Irsay, that's it.... nothing to sweat about.  Ballard will have to cringe with the rest of us as this Irsay/Pagano fail plays out.  Yes, it will be ugly and disgusting at times, and yes, it reflects on the Colts very poorly league-wide, which is the real unfortunate thing.., creates a bit of a laughing stock, butt of jokes, and ugly as ever football,  but we are used to Pagano teams getting blown out and embarrassed anyway.

[azcolt]

If the team showed as much emotion each Sunday as I see on this thread we would be in playoff contention. Thanks for caring even if you are only fans. BTW I'll bet Ballard himself was thinking he should have insisted on Pagano leaving last January after watching these games, especially all of the quitters yesterday. 

[Jaric]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I actually don't have a problem with Ballard's approach.  Give the current head coach (who the owner likes) a chance to prove himself.  If he doesn't cut it, you have the authority to fire him and bring in your own guy.

Also, this year was almost certainly going to be a dumpster fire, so may as well let Chuck weather that storm then start fresh next season.

[Hoose]

This is such a stupid topic. Ballard just got here, inherited a total mess, hit on most of his free agents and drafted well. He didn't blow anything. He's stuck with Pagano for now; the owner wanted him as coach. Ergo, he's stuck. Let's give him another off season to get some top free agents and draft picks. And while we're at it, let's get off any more mindless discussions about Ballard. He ain't the problem. 

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Jaric said:

Also, this year was almost certainly going to be a dumpster fire, so may as well let Chuck weather that storm then start fresh next season.

 

It's not even about that, though, IMO. There was major beef between Grigson and Pagano. This was Pagano's chance to show that, without Grigson in his way, making his life hard, etc., he could coach this team well. Irsay said he expected Pagano to have his best season as a coach.

 

So the spotlight is all on Pagano. No one else with whom to split blame, can't complain about a meddling or egomaniacal GM, etc. Pagano, on his own merits and his own terms, is failing. He's been exposed over the course of these two seasons: after 2015, he got to revamp his coaching staff; after 2016, he was freed of Grigson's influence. Now what?

 

There's nowhere for him to hide anymore. He's been exposed for all to see. He's not the right coach for a contending team. Barring a miraculous turnaround this season, Pagano is done. 

[azcolt]

31 minutes ago, Hoose said:

This is such a stupid topic. Ballard just got here, inherited a total mess, hit on most of his free agents and drafted well. He didn't blow anything. He's stuck with Pagano for now; the owner wanted him as coach. Ergo, he's stuck. Let's give him another off season to get some top free agents and draft picks. And while we're at it, let's get off any more mindless discussions about Ballard. He ain't the problem. 

I don’t know your professional background but in my own experience I have been recruited for a couple positions and in both cases I played hard ball with my requirements before taking the job. I was of course polite, but also firm in my expectations. I wanted to be set up for success, not failure. Maybe you have never been in the position to be picky and have simply accepted jobs, warts and all. Some people don’t have the choice, but I did — and certainly so did Ballard. He had a top job in KC and was successful at it.

 

In one instance a coworker — not the person who hired me — later told me that she resented my holding out. I explained to her that there is only one time I have maximum leverage and that is before I move my family/resign my prior position. Same deal with Ballard. He inherited a coaching staff that he chose to inherit. No one forced him to take the Colts job complete with a lousy coach entrenched in the job most critical to Ballard’s success. A reporter indicated Ballard was red faced after yesterday’s disgraceful performance. He has no one to blame but himself.

[coltsfeva]

4 hours ago, rockywoj said:

I don’t think Ballard blew it.   It was understood upon his hiring that Pagano was Irsay’s coach for the upcoming year... and that Ballard & Irsay would spend this year evaluating the organization from the ground up.   Brilliant, actually, for it gives Ballard a free pass this year.  Failure is on the coaching staff.   Had Ballard brought in his own coaching staff and had the team fail like this, Ballard would already be on the hot seat.   Instead, this year’s failure simply serves to cement the idea that an entirely new coaching staff is needed.  Thus, basically Ballard has yet another year (next year) of a free pass, as the new coaching regime is given a honeymoon year.  Nope, Ballard has a sweet arrangement, methinks.

 

Now that being said, I think that after this past week, they should have seen enough and the HC, OC, & DC should now all be fired.

  And yet, they’re still here....

  Doesn’t Irsay know that Chuck and his staff are “garbage” ?

 

  Do you ever ask yourself why Irsay wanted to give Chuck another shot at getting this team to the playoffs?

  A man who has millions at stake and a GM who appears to know the game, trust a coaching staff who, according to some local writers and most fans are “*s”. 

   Somebody’s assessment is wrong. Do they make mistakes? Absolutely! So does 31 other coaching staffs. Fans get tired of “That’s on me” or “I’ve got to do a better job”. But all coaches say those things.  

   Change needs to happen we all agree. Whether it’s new coaches or better play. They are tied at the hip. 

     Doug Pederson looks like a good coach but fans called for his job, earlier in the year. So far, his players are doing the little things right on a consistent basis. And they are healthy for the most part.

      I wish Chuck was so fortunate and I know that players playing well comes back to coaching. But maybe Irsay knows how much of an upheaval bringing in a new coaching staff will be.

    I trust Ballard and Irsay will make the right decision. I wish Chuck the best, no matter what. 

   

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, azcolt said:

If you are fortunate enough to be sought after by another employer, “101” theory says use this rare leverage to its max while being chased. Once you accept employment it is unlikely you will ever have such leverage again. In other words don’t accept the Colts GM job without making sure you have your basic expectations granted and at the top is your ability to hire your coach. If you fail to do this, Pagano, for example, is now your guy. You kept him, he did a crappy job of coaching up your new talent but it’s now on you, Chris Ballard. You blew it a year ago and you may never recover from that mistake.

I bet you are fun at party's.

[RockThatBlue]

Ballard hasn't even been here a full year yet and people are already tossing him under the bus. Wow.

[MackAttack]

I understand the frustration but really the finger pointing now going to Chris Ballard? Our gm for a full 7 games who has no control at the moment over who the hc would be? There are many fans Myself especially who KNEW how this year would go under pagano. But Ballard is the savior show some respect. 

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

It's not even about that, though, IMO. There was major beef between Grigson and Pagano. This was Pagano's chance to show that, without Grigson in his way, making his life hard, etc., he could coach this team well. Irsay said he expected Pagano to have his best season as a coach.

 

So the spotlight is all on Pagano. No one else with whom to split blame, can't complain about a meddling or egomaniacal GM, etc. Pagano, on his own merits and his own terms, is failing. He's been exposed over the course of these two seasons: after 2015, he got to revamp his coaching staff; after 2016, he was freed of Grigson's influence. Now what?

 

There's nowhere for him to hide anymore. He's been exposed for all to see. He's not the right coach for a contending team. Barring a miraculous turnaround this season, Pagano is done. 

Well said, as usual. It's just painful to think that an entirely new offensive and defensive system must now be instituted a year later than it could have. Sets the team back. But perhaps inevitable given the decision Irsay made to keep Pagano and Grigson. This probably  had to play itself out. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

Step away from the ledge AZ.

you are losing it.

jump doyle will catch you

[NannyMcafee]

5 hours ago, mahagga73 said:

Uh, I think that ship has sailed.  Only thing makes sense is that they have a couple names they like as HC that were otherwise unavailable this season and they were hoping Pagano could hold it together , keep the fans into it , one more year . But he's completely lost the lockerroom , they are undisciplined , soft , and flat out quit this week. 

 

Pagano lost the locker room 2015 @patriots in the AFCCG. 

[CF4L]

Just as I predicted people here have unrealistic expectations of the team and would tout Chris Ballard and then turn on him real quick.

 

A lot quicker than I thought I mean at least give the man a full year.

 

I think he deserves criticism for the Tolzien decision but everything else is going to take patience which a  contingent of this fanbase lacks especially the younger ones who grew up with Manning as the QB and expected it to always be this good.

 

 

That's not how it works. You are usually bad with the good times occasionally thrown in that's why the good times are special they don't last.

 

Some of us are old(sigh) and remember the Colts being this bad even then. 

[King Colt]

Any team that deliberately ignored the welfare of a potential hall of fame QB deserves to be humiliated. I don't care if the GM is a certified * there was one goal protect Luck They chose not to and here they are the joke of the NFL. The descriptions of the Colts are as embarrassing as it get. They have slipped  in  to a culture problem now meaning things are wrong in every department. Add to this the ongoing and increasing talk about the degree of Luck's injury. Irsay sure is being quit. I wonder why..(no I don't.) 

[jvan1973]

31 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Any team that deliberately ignored the welfare of a potential hall of fame QB deserves to be humiliated. I don't care if the GM is a certified * there was one goal protect Luck They chose not to and here they are the joke of the NFL. The descriptions of the Colts are as embarrassing as it get. They have slipped  in  to a culture problem now meaning things are wrong in every department. Add to this the ongoing and increasing talk about the degree of Luck's injury. Irsay sure is being quit. I wonder why..(no I don't.) 

Grigson brought in tons of o lineman trying to fix the problem.   Unfortunately he was bad at evaluating talent.    They certainly didn't deliberately ignore protecting Luck.

[Blueblazes]

Not bringing in top notch Oline talent and hoping against hope that the mediocre O linemen you do bring in are better than they've ever been. That's what Grigson did. Mewhort was good initially but has slipped considerably this season with injuries. The jury is still out on Kelly at C. Now Ballard has a chance and he didn't bring in anyone in the offseason that makes much difference either. We can say he brought in --- or  he brought in --- but you can find that kind of talent on the waiver wire. When we bring in a good Olineman from free agency or trade, and actually hit on a good O lineman in the draft, we will have trouble protecting an outstanding QB, Luck. The Falcons brought in Levine at LG and Mack at C and drafting Matthews at LT and what do you know, they had an awesome offense last year. You don't need 5 All-Pros but you need 3 O lineman that are very good. Or at the very least 2 and hoping for a 3rd to develop. Ok , I'll get off my O line soapbox now.

[rockywoj]

8 minutes ago, Blueblazes said:

Not bringing in top notch Oline talent and hoping against hope that the mediocre O linemen you do bring in are better than they've ever been. That's what Grigson did. Mewhort was good initially but has slipped considerably this season with injuries. The jury is still out on Kelly at C. Now Ballard has a chance and he didn't bring in anyone in the offseason that makes much difference either. We can say he brought in --- or  he brought in --- but you can find that kind of talent on the waiver wire. When we bring in a good Olineman from free agency or trade, and actually hit on a good O lineman in the draft, we will have trouble protecting an outstanding QB, Luck. The Falcons brought in Levine at LG and Mack at C and drafting Matthews at LT and what do you know, they had an awesome offense last year. You don't need 5 All-Pros but you need 3 O lineman that are very good. Or at the very least 2 and hoping for a 3rd to develop. Ok , I'll get off my O line soapbox now.

There were a good 4-7 high ceiling young prospects out there to be had, reasonably cheaply.   I was disappointed there appeared to be no effort to upgrade the OL via free agency, this past offseason.

[adamthyst]

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, MOB said:

Michaaaael Jordan!

[SaturdayAllDay]

5 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

There were a good 4-7 high ceiling young prospects out there to be had, reasonably cheaply.   I was disappointed there appeared to be no effort to upgrade the OL via free agency, this past offseason.

To say we made no effort isnt true.We did go after the top FA Lineman (Zeitler). He chose to go elsewhere. Ballard was looking for a sure thing, we already had a handful of "young guys with upside". In hindsight we could have used more, obviously, as some havent panned out, and the few that have ended up injured.

 

I also dont know how many of those young high ceiling guys would have signed with us to probably be a backup going into camp. Not when they had starting gig offers from other teams. Looking at our situation as a free agent, we had 2 promising rookie players on the right, 2 solid vets on the left, and a 1st round pick that did well his first year at center. To a young free agent who struggled at his last gig and is hoping a change of scenery will help his career, thats not a top of the line destination to get reps and showcase your talents.

 

I agree that I think we should have considered more options as well, but I can understand why it didnt happen. We had a lot of questions that needed to be answered on the line. We have our answers now, and its not the answer we hoped for. 

[Blueblazes]

34 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

There were a good 4-7 high ceiling young prospects out there to be had, reasonably cheaply.   I was disappointed there appeared to be no effort to upgrade the OL via free agency, this past offseason.

Ding, ding, ding. You are on the money. Exactly right.

[southwest1]

9 hours ago, azcolt said:

If you are fortunate enough to be sought after by another employer, “101” theory says use this rare leverage to its max while being chased. Once you accept employment it is unlikely you will ever have such leverage again. In other words don’t accept the Colts GM job without making sure you have your basic expectations granted and at the top is your ability to hire your coach. If you fail to do this, Pagano, for example, is now your guy. You kept him, he did a crappy job of coaching up your new talent but it’s now on you, Chris Ballard. You blew it a year ago and you may never recover from that mistake.

AZC, 

 

I have a tremendous amount of respect for you as a must read regular poster brother & I realize that you are just tired of losing games & struggling to compete to be kind/charitable. Hang in there. It will improve with a new HC next yr. INDY will rise again. 

 

I refuse to mock you because I know how much you care that the Colts compete for division titles again & we will. All is not lost mi amigo. Prosperity will return in time. 

[southwest1]

9 hours ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

 

Lolly, 

 

You always do the best job of expressing through pictures/Memes what everybody is thinking.

 

San Francisco is the real train wreck team right now in the league not us. You rock my man! 

 

 

[rockywoj]

1 hour ago, SaturdayAllDay said:

To say we made no effort isnt true.We did go after the top FA Lineman (Zeitler). He chose to go elsewhere. Ballard was looking for a sure thing, we already had a handful of "young guys with upside". In hindsight we could have used more, obviously, as some havent panned out, and the few that have ended up injured.

 

I also dont know how many of those young high ceiling guys would have signed with us to probably be a backup going into camp. Not when they had starting gig offers from other teams. Looking at our situation as a free agent, we had 2 promising rookie players on the right, 2 solid vets on the left, and a 1st round pick that did well his first year at center. To a young free agent who struggled at his last gig and is hoping a change of scenery will help his career, thats not a top of the line destination to get reps and showcase your talents.

 

I agree that I think we should have considered more options as well, but I can understand why it didnt happen. We had a lot of questions that needed to be answered on the line. We have our answers now, and its not the answer we hoped for. 

Well, I was not sold on the OL starters (especially on the right side) as being as settled as the team wanted to have us believe.  Two spots were unsettled and given the Colts OL issues, I thought it made a LOT of sense to go after one or two of those REALLY highly rated prospects from the previous three years, to legit compete for a starting role (Zeitler was not one of the ones I would have targeted).  Regardless of their justification for not doing so, at the time, I foresaw the need to do more, so I was disappointed at that time.  Now with hindsight, I am even MORE disappointed.

[southwest1]

7 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

I don't understand the original post, lol.  I don't think Ballard screwed anything up.  I also don't think it was on him to keep Pagano, imo.  Apparently, no one knew the extent of Luck's shoulder.  I seriously doubt any coach would come in with this young, injury decimated team without their starting QB and expect to do much.  Not saying that Pagano needs to stay.  I personally he's surpassed his time here and the longer he stays the worse the locker room may get.  It seems like the team just has no fight in them, contrary to what he says.  I saw several players attempt to soft tackle, walking around on the field, little effort.  

 

Next year pending on if Luck gets healthy, Colts are likely poised to have high draft picks.  Ballard will most likely bring in his own coaching staff unless Irsay wants to keep Pagano and co around for some reason.  Unfortunately this was supposed to be a rebuild year but just due to the injuries, lack of experience it makes it very difficult.  

Well written post as usual M-432. Nice snapshot of where the team is actually at. 

 

Don't be too tough on AZC. Hades, we're all disappointed & frustrated right now. We all knew what he was driving at. It's hard to watch INDY not even get 1 FG in 4 Quarters of football vs a division rival & even though I don't blame Jacoby Brissett or anybody on defense; We just had a horrible day at the office. It happens every now & then in professional football. 

[AZColt11]

I didn't read all the replies, but I'm guessing most, like me, believe this was more Irsay's decision than Ballard's.  Ballard will get his decision come January.......if not sooner.

[Jaric]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's not even about that, though, IMO. There was major beef between Grigson and Pagano. This was Pagano's chance to show that, without Grigson in his way, making his life hard, etc., he could coach this team well. Irsay said he expected Pagano to have his best season as a coach.

 

So the spotlight is all on Pagano. No one else with whom to split blame, can't complain about a meddling or egomaniacal GM, etc. Pagano, on his own merits and his own terms, is failing. He's been exposed over the course of these two seasons: after 2015, he got to revamp his coaching staff; after 2016, he was freed of Grigson's influence. Now what?

 

There's nowhere for him to hide anymore. He's been exposed for all to see. He's not the right coach for a contending team. Barring a miraculous turnaround this season, Pagano is done. 

 

Ballard held Chuck at arms length since the moment he was hired and quite frankly he should have.  You could argue if Chuck was good at his job, Ballard wouldn't have his.

 

You've got guys with two competing agendas.  Chuck has to win now because his time is running out.  He can't afford to have a losing season.

 

Ballard has to win long term.  Winning this season isn't as important as winning over the next couple of seasons.  

 

These guys have two opposite mindsets.  That never works and Chuck and Chris are smart enough to know that.  Ballard knows if this season goes the way a rebuilding season usually goes, it will be Chuck that gets the blame, not Ballard and whoever his head coach will be.

 

They're using Pagano as a shield that will be discarded at the end of the year when his purpose has been served.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, Jaric said:

 

Ballard held Chuck at arms length since the moment he was hired and quite frankly he should have.  You could argue if Chuck was good at his job, Ballard wouldn't have his.

 

You've got guys with two competing agendas.  Chuck has to win now because his time is running out.  He can't afford to have a losing season.

 

Ballard has to win long term.  Winning this season isn't as important as winning over the next couple of seasons.  

 

These guys have two opposite mindsets.  That never works and Chuck and Chris are smart enough to know that.  Ballard knows if this season goes the way a rebuilding season usually goes, it will be Chuck that gets the blame, not Ballard and whoever his head coach will be.

 

They're using Pagano as a shield that will be discarded at the end of the year when his purpose has been served.

 

The difference between your viewpoint and mine is you're saying Ballard has set Pagano up as the fall guy, while I'm saying that Pagano was given a legitimate chance to save his job by doing it well, and hasn't been able to do so.

 

Pagano could have done a great job all season, and I think Ballard would have gotten behind him 100%. But Pagano and his staff stood behind Scott Tolzien from the beginning, which bombed right away. The team looked disjointed throughout the preseason, lacking urgency, physicality and discipline. They can't put together four solid quarters of football, having been outscored in the second half of games by something like 120 points, iirc. They have the worst point differential in the league. The OL looks worse, with two of the young guys everyone was counting on seeming to have regressed.

 

They gave him a chance to show what he can do without Grigson, and he's failing. I don't think he's been given a raw deal, he's been given a lot of rope. He's all tangled up, and it's getting tighter and tighter around his neck.

[crazycolt1]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The difference between your viewpoint and mine is you're saying Ballard has set Pagano up as the fall guy, while I'm saying that Pagano was given a legitimate chance to save his job by doing it well, and hasn't been able to do so.

 

Pagano could have done a great job all season, and I think Ballard would have gotten behind him 100%. But Pagano and his staff stood behind Scott Tolzien from the beginning, which bombed right away. The team looked disjointed throughout the preseason, lacking urgency, physicality and discipline. They can't put together four solid quarters of football, having been outscored in the second half of games by something like 120 points, iirc. They have the worst point differential in the league. The OL looks worse, with two of the young guys everyone was counting on seeming to have regressed.

 

They gave him a chance to show what he can do without Grigson, and he's failing. I don't think he's been given a raw deal, he's been given a lot of rope. He's all tangled up, and it's getting tighter and tighter around his neck.

I am not defending or pointing a finger at Pagano but why and how does anyone expect Pagano to work anything positive out of the roster the Colts have at this point?

Without pointing out the obvious lack of starters due to injuries and the team full of young inexperienced players he really never had what you called a legitimate chance.

So IMO Chuck will be the fall guy when the cards were all stacked against him before the season ever started.

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I am not defending or pointing a finger at Pagano but why and how does anyone expect Pagano to work anything positive out of the roster the Colts have at this point?

Without pointing out the obvious lack of starters due to injuries and the team full of young inexperienced players he really never had what you called a legitimate chance.

So IMO Chuck will be the fall guy when the cards were all stacked against him before the season ever started.

 

I laid out several examples of negatives that point back to the coaching staff in the previous post. I didn't even bring up the in-game mistakes, like the hurry-up instead of challenging against the Cardinals, or not challenging the obvious touchback against the Jags, or the way he uses timeouts.

 

The Colts weren't going to contend this season, but Pagano isn't doing a good job with what he has.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I laid out several examples of negatives that point back to the coaching staff in the previous post. I didn't even bring up the in-game mistakes, like the hurry-up instead of challenging against the Cardinals, or not challenging the obvious touchback against the Jags, or the way he uses timeouts.

 

The Colts weren't going to contend this season, but Pagano isn't doing a good job with what he has.

Yes thing like this can be brought up when every move you make is put under a microscope with the intent of looking for anything and every reason to make him negative.

Pagano isn't doing a good job with what he has? Really? I am sure there is so much to work with.

[CanuckColtsFan]

8 hours ago, azcolt said:

I don’t know your professional background but in my own experience I have been recruited for a couple positions and in both cases I played hard ball with my requirements before taking the job. I was of course polite, but also firm in my expectations. I wanted to be set up for success, not failure. Maybe you have never been in the position to be picky and have simply accepted jobs, warts and all. Some people don’t have the choice, but I did — and certainly so did Ballard. He had a top job in KC and was successful at it.

 

In one instance a coworker — not the person who hired me — later told me that she resented my holding out. I explained to her that there is only one time I have maximum leverage and that is before I move my family/resign my prior position. Same deal with Ballard. He inherited a coaching staff that he chose to inherit. No one forced him to take the Colts job complete with a lousy coach entrenched in the job most critical to Ballard’s success. A reporter indicated Ballard was red faced after yesterday’s disgraceful performance. He has no one to blame but himself.

The difference is Ballad doesn't require maximum leverage in his position. He will choose the coach he wants next year. It might be Pagano, probably not though. I am noting the humble brag as well.

[Superman]

39 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes thing like this can be brought up when every move you make is put under a microscope with the intent of looking for anything and every reason to make him negative.

Pagano isn't doing a good job with what he has? Really? I am sure there is so much to work with.

 

Do you believe Pagano is doing a good job with what he has?

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Do you believe Pagano is doing a good job with what he has?

He is playing the cards dealt him. He is sitting in a no win position.

[Jules]