Who Was Against Irsay's Decision To Retain Grigs/Pags From The Get Go?

[JColts72]

54 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

I was

Ditto-This team has no toughness and it's the same for years, and years. I hope Chuck does not get a pass this year and gets canned with Ryan. Jimmy though may keep them to not look like the fool he is for giving them extensions and 4 years at that.

[OHColtfan]

I was shocked. this is a short-term business, produce or else. (see Les Miles at LSU) Just hadn't seen where they had done much to warrant being brought back. GM had not fixed OL to protect Luck, hadn't fixed glaring pass rush need, etc. Pagano, well, just overwhelmed as a HC.  But like fans do, you settle in and want them to do well and win. Don't care who gets the credit if we win. But never, never would have imagined that it would be this bad. Luck to TY has bailed our butts out of possible 0-6.

 

We have bad talent being coached badly. If anything this season has been a revelation just how poorly this team is constructed  and how poorly we are coached. It just smells of a sinking ship.

[Myles]

I was against it.   More against the Pagano choice though.   What needs to happen to have solid proof that he is not a good coach?  

[AZColt11]

Ok so obviously we are stuck with what we have for this season.  Even if someone took over it is effectively too late to do much.  So the question is where do they go from here?  The "easy" part of the schedule has now come and gone and they are 2-4.  My guess is this hangover lasts and they lost in Tennessee next week and are then 2-5.  You still have games with Pitt, GB, Oakland, Minnesota coming up and those don't look favorable either.  I mean the fan in me wants to see them shake this and go on a run and go deep in the playoffs, but c'mon, does anybody REALLY see this happening?  So if not, what is the point of winning any games?  What does it get you?  Until the NFL changes the draft order to give the top 2 teams who miss the playoffs the first 2 picks in the draft then there is no incentive to do so.  I don't like it either but finishing 6-10 and drafting 10th is not any better than going 3-13 and drafting in the top 3 to me.  No guarantees I know on the draft picks but your odds of getting a playmaker go up.  I don't know, this season sux.  Last season sux.  I'm getting tired of the letdowns with this regime.  I still can't figure out how we made it to the AFC Championship game just a season and a half ago and now here they are.  That's not just a fall, that's a cliff dive.  Amazing really.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

TBH I wanted them gone at the end of last year.  I would have been okay with even just signing grigson to an extension at the very most. 

 

Once it happened I told myself the year would be a success! Sometimes my brain likes to think it's right. 

[MTC]

My GIF still fits perfectly, IMO.

[Aces101]

I was 100% against retaining Grigson or Pagano, much less both.  It was a sign of weakness by Irsay to essentially allow Pagano to cry his way back and to extend both of them based on a promise to kiss, make up, and work better together.

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, presto123 said:

 Just wondering.......As soon as I heard the decision come down, I knew the writing was on the wall. Irsay made a huge mistake. Let me know which side of the fence you fell on at the time Irsay was making the decision. I felt like Pagano was brought here to be a defensive guru and he did very little to earn a second chance. Part of that was on Grigson which is why both of them should have been fired. Now we can only hope Irsay wakes up and sees the error of his ways.

I was against it. However I did see why Irsay retained them and agreed that they should be tied together.  Now though, I think it's obvious, Pagano is truly holding the team back.  I can live with Grigson. He seems to have learned from his drafting mistakes in 13/14 and has seemed to follow the hands off orders.  Maybe Grigs needs to get back involved...... GULP.  Pagano needs to be gone.

[Myles]

57 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

Ok so obviously we are stuck with what we have for this season.  Even if someone took over it is effectively too late to do much.  So the question is where do they go from here?  The "easy" part of the schedule has now come and gone and they are 2-4.  My guess is this hangover lasts and they lost in Tennessee next week and are then 2-5.  You still have games with Pitt, GB, Oakland, Minnesota coming up and those don't look favorable either.  I mean the fan in me wants to see them shake this and go on a run and go deep in the playoffs, but c'mon, does anybody REALLY see this happening?  So if not, what is the point of winning any games?  What does it get you?  Until the NFL changes the draft order to give the top 2 teams who miss the playoffs the first 2 picks in the draft then there is no incentive to do so.  I don't like it either but finishing 6-10 and drafting 10th is not any better than going 3-13 and drafting in the top 3 to me.  No guarantees I know on the draft picks but your odds of getting a playmaker go up.  I don't know, this season sux.  Last season sux.  I'm getting tired of the letdowns with this regime.  I still can't figure out how we made it to the AFC Championship game just a season and a half ago and now here they are.  That's not just a fall, that's a cliff dive.  Amazing really.

That's where I am.   One more loss away from rooting for them to lose for draft position.   I like your idea of the first 2 teams missing the playoffs get picks 1 and 2.     

[Dudley Smith]

8 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I was against it.  I thought maybe Pagano deserves another shot (1 year deal) without Grigson to see what he can do.  But giving Grigson an extension when he already had another year left on his contract was a huge mistake.

 

For those interested, it's always fun to look back at these decisions.

 

 

If I recall, didn't Irsay offer Pagano a 1-year extension earlier in the season that he turned down due to him wanting more security with a longer deal? I would have been fine with a 1 year deal, but not the 4-year deal he currently has.

 

Last night was essentially a microcosm of what has been wrong with this staff for the past 4 seasons and why he shouldn't have gotten any more than a 1 year deal to show what he could do with Luck healthy. It has made no difference.

[RollerColt]

I'm eating crow. I was fine with the decision at the time. I thought continuity would be a good thing, and that maybe if given a second chance these two could turn things around. 

 

But I've been dead wrong so far. The team is the worst is has been since 2011. Talent is depleted, we're injured all over the place, the coaching is in shambles...

 

We are lightyears away from championship contention. It will take at least another 3-5 years before I can even think about us competing against the big teams...

[NeedsADefence]

Just remember we have them for the next three years. They are tied at the hip.

[Turftoe]

Watching that press conference, late on that evening in January - it felt like everyone there was saying the right things, but still felt like this was a very bad decision.

[Defjamz26]

11 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

The defense last night was downright horrible and that's a understatement. They looked good in the first half second half they should just stayed on the bench. 

Yup. Can't make excuses anymore. And It's improbable and naive to think that it's a matter of time like people usually think. I can't believe that once Parry, Geathers, Green, Clark, Morrison, Dorsett, etc... all have more experience they're just going to reach max potential and all of a sudden we'll have a dangerous squad. You know within the first 2 years how good a player will be and I don't see much long term upside in a lot of the young guys recently drafted tbh. I see a lot of potential for average and serviceable but nothing spectacular. Maybe 3 guys I see can be top tier players but that's it.

 

I don't have to talk about the older guys because we already know they're not good.

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, NeedsADefence said:

Just remember we have them for the next three years. They are tied at the hip.

They can be fired at any time

[YourNextGM]

I blame Andrew for this too.  No way Peyton sits back while these clowns ruin his career.  

[sfergson727]

I was shocked, I was flabbergasted, I was floored, I was nauseated, I was.......yeah, I was against it.

 

FIRE THEM BOTH!!!! Now.

 

[tncoltsfan57]

I was blown away by the decision to keep both of these losers. They promised a monster and we have a toothless, spineless, soft, weak bunch of losers to go with them. This is the NFL, 3 years to prove your worth that's what everyone says it will take to turn this team around into SB contenders. They had their 3 years and didn't produce they should have been gone. I get physically sick watching Pagano and the pathetic roster we have. Where's the Tylenol???

[aReggie7]

I saw reasons to fire Pagano but also felt there were reasons to keep him.

 

I've given a pass to Pagano in some ways due to the lack of talent Grigson has brought in. Plus, I bought what was said of Grigson being overly involved in the coaching decisions.

 

I was wrong though. I should have been 100% against bringing Pagano back. (not that my opinion matters) The issues keep getting worse and worse though. Slow starts, sloppy play, unprepared, bad coaching decisions...even the best players on this team look lost at times.

 

Grigson better hope his job isn't tied to Chuck.

[Rackeen305]

i know this may come off as harsh, But in business you gotta do whats best for the organization. We should have retained BA (Bad butt) Bruce Arians as head coach instead of pagano. Luck's best years was his rookie year. Can you imagine what our team would be today if Luck had BA the same O.Coordinator that Ben Roethlisberger had. Im just saying, we would actually have a play caller and a coach who is hands on, and Luck would have grown immensely with one coach/ coordinator instead of number 3. Plus, We would utilize the weapons that we have on offense more effectively. Even Frank Gore would be even more effective and used properly on 4th and inches. 

[BOTT]

16 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

i know this may come off as harsh, But in business you gotta do whats best for the organization. We should have retained BA (Bad butt) Bruce Arians as head coach instead of pagano. Luck's best years was his rookie year. Can you imagine what our team would be today if Luck had BA the same O.Coordinator that Ben Roethlisberger had. Im just saying, we would actually have a play caller and a coach who is hands on, and Luck would have grown immensely with one coach/ coordinator instead of number 3. Plus, We would utilize the weapons that we have on offense more effectively. Even Frank Gore would be even more effective and used properly on 4th and inches. 

This has been said a million times.....colts were never going to fire a guy fighting cancer and even if they did, BA would never have accepted the job.

[superrep1967]

5 hours ago, Jeff Hilton said:

I was blown away by the decision to keep both of these losers. They promised a monster and we have a toothless, spineless, soft, weak bunch of losers to go with them. This is the NFL, 3 years to prove your worth that's what everyone says it will take to turn this team around into SB contenders. They had their 3 years and didn't produce they should have been gone. I get physically sick watching Pagano and the pathetic roster we have. Where's the Tylenol???

They don't make enough Tylenol to take to deal with this mess. 

[superrep1967]

15 hours ago, Aces101 said:

I was 100% against retaining Grigson or Pagano, much less both.  It was a sign of weakness by Irsay to essentially allow Pagano to cry his way back and to extend both of them based on a promise to kiss, make up, and work better together.

That's exactly what happened and that's a terrible reason to keep these guys. How gullible to you have to be to believe that. 

[Smoke317]

I would have dumped Pagano and snatched up Sean Payton so fast. And kept Grigson for 1 more year to see if he and Payton could co-exist. Something tells me he really wanted to come here too. With the QB and weapons we have on offense, why wouldn't he???  We'd have the number one offense in the league and Luck would be pushing for his first MVP trophy.  I think we'd have a 4-2 maybe 5-1 record right now. And Dorsett would be making plays rather than looking like a wasted pick. 

[DougDew]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 1:05 AM, presto123 said:

 Just wondering.......As soon as I heard the decision come down, I knew the writing was on the wall. Irsay made a huge mistake. Let me know which side of the fence you fell on at the time Irsay was making the decision. I felt like Pagano was brought here to be a defensive guru and he did very little to earn a second chance. Part of that was on Grigson which is why both of them should have been fired. Now we can only hope Irsay wakes up and sees the error of his ways.

If you fire someone, then the position they held is vacant.  You can't just fire someone and have that solve the problem.

 

You have to hire someone who is better.  Everybody was quick to want to fire the duo but never seemed to think about who would be a better replacement who wasn't already under contract somewhere else.   

 

It takes two steps to replace someone.  Firing is just the first step.

[tfunky14]

Too bad we can't get rid of some fans on here.

 

Grass is not always greener on the other side..

[CoachLite]

On 10/17/2016 at 6:41 AM, Aces101 said:

I was 100% against retaining Grigson or Pagano, much less both.  It was a sign of weakness by Irsay to essentially allow Pagano to cry his way back and to extend both of them based on a promise to kiss, make up, and work better together.

I was against it, too. I wanted them both gone, not because they aren't football smart, but because they don't understand the cultural, strategic and holistic aspects of developing a winning football organization. They only see the individual pieces - x's and o's, individual metrics, etc - not the way the players integrate into a complete team. Indications are unpreparedness for games, lack of conditioning causing injuries, "dazed and confused" play. IMO, these are symptoms of the lessons learned from both the HC and the GM.

 

I felt this obvious shortly after Pagano's return from illness, and after the player / personnel decisions by Grigson since.

 

Pagano and Grigson obviously "believe" they are doing the right things. They just don't understand they are doing it wrong. Will Jim Irsay ever correctly diagnose what the problems really are? I don't know. We'll see.

[Rackeen305]

12 hours ago, BOTT said:

This has been said a million times.....colts were never going to fire a guy fighting cancer and even if they did, BA would never have accepted the job.

BA wouldn't accept the job? He accepted the OC position with the Colts right? Why wouldn't he if Colts offered the right amount of chips? That's a lame excuse. And the Colts being that good group of guys team/organization is exactly why we are in the position that we are in now. Not signing CB Aqib Taleb because of off the field issues,  not signing RB Blount because of OTFIs, Not drafting CB Xavier Rhodes, etc. If you want a good team you gotta learn how to get the elite talent when available. Coaching included. So save the church message for Sunday mornings,  and let teams like Pats, Denver, Vikings, Cards keep all the ballers.

[OffensivelyPC]

Holy cow, so many of you are lying through your freaking teeth.  It was practically unanimous that everyone wanted Pagano back and Grigson gone...just take a look for yourself.  I'm not going to call anyone out specifically, I'm just calling you all out generally.  I read the first page of this thread and know it was NOTHING like what the sentiment was when we brought them both back.  

 

 

I personally wanted Grigson back if we had to bring one of the two back, but dont' recall wanting them both gone or back.

[deedub75]

I felt that one or both should have been gone after last season and it had nothing to do with them allegedly not working together.  They both sucked at their jobs whether they worked well together or not.  I also didn't agree with hiring a rookie GM and rookie coach at the same time. 

[deedub75]

On October 17, 2016 at 1:11 AM, John Waylon said:

I wasn't in love with it, but I wiped the slate clean and tried to give it a fresh start.

The lions put a quick end to that.

*

 

What fresh start?  Do you mean they got another chance to rebuild the team again?

[cbear]

I was for it, and more so after they brought in new coaches and coordinators.

 

I'll still wait to see how the season plays out before I admit anything else!!!!

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

After the Colts 2015 season, I was so over football that I literally couldn't have cared less, I was just so happy that it was over. 2016 is starting to look pretty similar.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

On 10/17/2016 at 7:17 AM, RollerColt said:

We are lightyears away from championship contention. It will take at least another 3-5 years before I can even think about us competing against the big teams...

 

3-5 years, really? We were within 6 points of the SB champs on the road with less than 2 minutes to go only a few short weeks ago. We've already got the QB, and the arrow is pointing up with the o-line. IMO, it seems a little dramatic to assume that we're 5 years away.

[BOTT]

9 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

BA wouldn't accept the job? He accepted the OC position with the Colts right? Why wouldn't he if Colts offered the right amount of chips? That's a lame excuse. And the Colts being that good group of guys team/organization is exactly why we are in the position that we are in now. Not signing CB Aqib Taleb because of off the field issues,  not signing RB Blount because of OTFIs, Not drafting CB Xavier Rhodes, etc. If you want a good team you gotta learn how to get the elite talent when available. Coaching included. So save the church message for Sunday mornings,  and let teams like Pats, Denver, Vikings, Cards keep all the ballers.

This just in....BA and Chuck are close friends off the field.  He wasn't going to back stab his friend while he was fighting cancer.

 

i don't know who the rest of that rant was directed at.

[Bigsexy 16]

I was and still am.  This staff needs to go to the CFL.     TERRIBLE.  Pagano was a defensive minded coach in Baltimore and it doesn't show here in Indy.   Die hard fan but this is hard to watch.  

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

3-5 years, really? We were within 6 points of the SB champs on the road with less than 2 minutes to go only a few short weeks ago. We've already got the QB, and the arrow is pointing up with the o-line. IMO, it seems a little dramatic to assume that we're 5 years away.

Hangover Monday got the best of me, haha... I guess I should rephrase my original statement towards the defense needing an overhaul for the next 3 years.

 

I do think the pieces are in place for the offense. They just need more time, experience and better playcalling. And maybe just maybe allow Andrew to retain the same playbook for more than one season...

[COLTS449]

I was.

[COLTS449]

On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 8:17 AM, RollerColt said:

I'm eating crow. I was fine with the decision at the time. I thought continuity would be a good thing, and that maybe if given a second chance these two could turn things around. 

 

But I've been dead wrong so far. The team is the worst is has been since 2011. Talent is depleted, we're injured all over the place, the coaching is in shambles...

 

We are lightyears away from championship contention. It will take at least another 3-5 years before I can even think about us competing against the big teams...

 

You're wrong bro. Tell me this. With a franchise QB, probably high draft picks, over 60 million in cap space this offseason, and other really good pieces on offense. You really don't think that if we brought in say......Chandler Jones, Stephon Gilmore, and Zach Brown, then drafted Myles Garrett, and an ILB with coverage skills who can step in and start week 1 that we wouldn't be a contender. Heck a defense that had Henry Anderson and Kendall Langford on the DL, Chandler Jones and Myles Garrett getting after opposing QB's, Vontae Davis and Stephon Gilmore at CB, and TJ Green and Clayton Geathers at safety would be pretty stout. There's no reason why we shouldn't be competing at a high level next year is what I'm saying. No way. Now if we screwed around and didn't bring in any playmakers on D yeah, but again......60 million in cap space and no Grigson would probably mean a swing for the fences type approach in free agency. Like we should have done this offseason.

[Colts_Fan12]

33 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

 

You're wrong bro. Tell me this. With a franchise QB, probably high draft picks, over 60 million in cap space this offseason, and other really good pieces on offense. You really don't think that if we brought in say......Chandler Jones, Stephon Gilmore, and Zach Brown, then drafted Myles Garrett, and an ILB with coverage skills who can step in and start week 1 that we wouldn't be a contender. Heck a defense that had Henry Anderson and Kendall Langford on the DL, Chandler Jones and Myles Garrett getting after opposing QB's, Vontae Davis and Stephon Gilmore at CB, and TJ Green and Clayton Geathers at safety would be pretty stout. There's no reason why we shouldn't be competing at a high level next year is what I'm saying. No way. Now if we screwed around and didn't bring in any playmakers on D yeah, but again......60 million in cap space and no Grigson would probably mean a swing for the fences type approach in free agency. Like we should have done this offseason.

Green isn't doing anything in coverage so if he don't start improving there we are gonna need a better coverage Safety too. he's good in the box like Geathers but we don't need 2 box safeties out there together and Adams is like 100 years old.