Your thoughts on our two brilliant Coaches Challenges?

[JPFolks]

Gang, 

 

I was ready to compliment the entire coaching staff for these past 3 wins and really keeping the team together and solid through injuries etc.  But both of our  "challenges" were 100% obviously not going to be decided in our favor from the live look through each view they showed afterwards.   It is calls like that which add legitimate ammo to the "fire Pagano" legions.   For me they tainted an otherwise solid coaching job (except for trying over and over to run Gore wide.... throw it to the backs outside, run them inside.... it isn't that tough).  

 

Your thoughts?  We really could have gotten screwed, as we likely lost 3 points in the first half by losing the timeout, and if a big bad call was against us in the second half, we were out of challenges early.  

[Dustin]

I didn't have a problem with the 2nd one. I have no idea how the other ref could have had an angle to overrule the side judge but w/e.

 

The first one was just hilariously awful.

[zo6scott]

Neither were good, thankfully they were inconsequential. 

[SilentHill]

I liked the challenges.

[crazycolt1]

Most of those types of calls come from upstairs. Pointing the finger at just the coach is nit picking when it is not all on the coach. The coach has a headset with someone talking to him, he is trying to look at a replay and also he has the player saying he made the play. All in a few seconds. This is a tough crowd to please.

[tomloge]

Who cares?  We won the game.  Nobody's perfect.

[twfish]

Most of those types of calls come from upstairs. Pointing the finger at just the coach is nit picking when it is not all on the coach. The coach has a headset with someone talking to him, he is trying to look at a replay and also he has the player saying he made the play. All in a few seconds. This is a tough crowd to please.

This^ THis^ THIs^ THIS^

[GhostofJohnnyU]

I thought they were both bad challenges. Thing is, the advice coming from the coaches in the box must be pretty bad. No way Pagano can see well enough to decide on his own.

What they need is some couch potato that watches football all day and recognizes replay tendencies. For example, NEVER challenge a spot in the middle of a pile. They never overturn those.

BTW, I'm available.

[JPFolks]

Who cares?  We won the game.  Nobody's perfect.

They both showed either bad judgement based on the info he was given, or a bad call on who he is getting info from, because both challenges were not only lost, they CONFIRMED the call which means it wasn't even close.  

 

Commenting on the good and the bad of a given game seems to be the entire point of a discussion board, or do you only make charming comments about tulips and daffodils if we win?  

[ricker182]

I didn't think they were bad, and the call comes from upstairs (not god).

I don't see the big deal in losing challenges other than the timeouts.

[crazycolt1]

They both showed either bad judgement based on the info he was given, or a bad call on who he is getting info from, because both challenges were not only lost, they CONFIRMED the call which means it wasn't even close.  

 

Commenting on the good and the bad of a given game seems to be the entire point of a discussion board, or do you only make charming comments about tulips and daffodils if we win?  

One was close, not the other. You started your comment said you were going to complement but then you didn't. The Colts got by with a bad call when the nose of the football did hit before the catch was made. It all works out. The adjustments at halftime was the best made all season, that does deserve some complements. Tainted? Like I said, tough crowd.

[GhostofJohnnyU]

I didn't think they were bad, and the call comes from upstairs (not god).

I don't see the big deal in losing challenges other than the timeouts.

Until the officials come up with an obvious laugher of a call, and you're out of challenges.

[BOTT]

Time to call in Jim Tressel

[John Waylon]

I didn't mind the first one. I'm not exactly sure what the thought process was on the second, no matter where it came from.

[Superman]

I didn't see a definitive replay on the second one until after the flag was thrown.

[tomloge]

They both showed either bad judgement based on the info he was given, or a bad call on who he is getting info from, because both challenges were not only lost, they CONFIRMED the call which means it wasn't even close.  

 

Commenting on the good and the bad of a given game seems to be the entire point of a discussion board, or do you only make charming comments about tulips and daffodils if we win?  

wth?

[csmopar]

Most of those types of calls come from upstairs. Pointing the finger at just the coach is nit picking when it is not all on the coach. The coach has a headset with someone talking to him, he is trying to look at a replay and also he has the player saying he made the play. All in a few seconds. This is a tough crowd to please.

Out of likes but exactly. The first one, you could clearly see Pagano talking to someone and looking at the team suite... each team has a guy or guys setting watching to let the coach know if they ought challenge.

The 2nd one, could have gone either way. Especially these days when anymore, not even the refs know what is or isn't a catch. Worth the try.

[RockThatBlue]

They were so bad, that they cost us the game...

Oops what?

Not a big deal, most challenges are crap shoots anyway.

[Hoose]

The first challenge was a terrible decision. The second was a no brainer.

But I agree that you cannot blame the Head Coach on that first one. He has to count on the guys upstairs to let him know what they see. What they saw up there I have no idea, because the tv cameras were all over the catch, and it was obvious that the call would stand. By losing the challenge, they gave up any chance in the last few seconds of the first half to score. It could have impacted the final outcome; the fact that it did not doesn't excuse the extremely poor decision making up in the box.

[TrueColt!]

They were both terrible to answer the question. Win or lose, I wouldn't have put it on challenges tho. Def do have to be smarter with them tho bcuz we had a chance to challenge later in the game and we would've won it but we wasted them already.

[Narcosys]

Lol, my thought was who the heck is upstairs telling him to challenge.

[BullsColtsFan1]

I was at the game and I thought the second challenge was a bad challenge.  It might have been a catch but I didn't think there was enough evidence to overturn it.  The first one I really didn't see to well but after the Colts challenged and they showed numerous replays, it was a bad challenge.

[Myles]

Most of those types of calls come from upstairs. Pointing the finger at just the coach is nit picking when it is not all on the coach. The coach has a headset with someone talking to him, he is trying to look at a replay and also he has the player saying he made the play. All in a few seconds. This is a tough crowd to please.

I agree.  However, I don't know if head coaches override the advice.  

 

As a whole with the upstairs staff dictating what should and should not be challenged, I'm amazed at how inept some teams are.  Wouldn't you think you would have 2 guys in a room watching the game on monitors as well as the live TV feed?   They would have direct access to the head coaches headphone feed.  The Buffalo Bills had 2 cases yesterday where they would have won the challenge.   They didn't challenge either of them.   You see that way too often.    It's either they do not listen to their people or they don't have a system in place.   Since it would be very little money to have the system in place, that seems as unlikely as the coach ignoring the advice.   So if both are so unlikely, what is the deal?   I suppose the players opinion would factor into it some, but you wouldn't think that would override the upstairs advice.     

[JPFolks]

Lol, my thought was who the heck is upstairs telling him to challenge.

Right... but you could actually see Pagano watching the big screen in the stadium both times so he wasn't completely in the dark.  Both challenges were terrible and had no chance of working, nor were either in crucial situations where it was worth losing our challenge ability plus the timeouts, which likely cost us 3 points in the first half.  We were just lucky that all the really bad calls worked out in our favor for a change.  That ref crew was awful all day and I think we used the challenges in both cases at times which were not critical enough to justify it on plays that weren't going to ever be overturned.  

[crazycolt1]

I agree.  However, I don't know if head coaches override the advice.  

 

As a whole with the upstairs staff dictating what should and should not be challenged, I'm amazed at how inept some teams are.  Wouldn't you think you would have 2 guys in a room watching the game on monitors as well as the live TV feed?   They would have direct access to the head coaches headphone feed.  The Buffalo Bills had 2 cases yesterday where they would have won the challenge.   They didn't challenge either of them.   You see that way too often.    It's either they do not listen to their people or they don't have a system in place.   Since it would be very little money to have the system in place, that seems as unlikely as the coach ignoring the advice.   So if both are so unlikely, what is the deal?   I suppose the players opinion would factor into it some, but you wouldn't think that would override the upstairs advice.     

It is a human factor. Mistakes are made. All of us can make a mistake when you are under pressure. We are sitting at home kicked back and watching TV. Easy calls for us. We don't have cameras on us. We don't have a head set on trying to listen what is said. We don't have a player in our face telling you he made the play. We are not trying to see the reply with all that going on. All within 15 seconds or so. These are judgment calls To make such a critical issue out of this is nit picking. The was one play the Colts got by with when it was challenged by Tampa of a non catch that was obvious not a catch. It didn't go their way. Yesterday was a good win. Played kind of sloppy in the first half but made some fantastic adjustments and come out and performed very well in the second half. Now we are debating over this? Like I said before a couple of other times, tough crowd.

[BleedBlu8792]

Lol, my thought was who the heck is upstairs telling him to challenge.

 

Exactly what I said when watching the game... Pagano got some horrible advice to challenge those two plays..

[lennymoore24]

Hey, you gotta bash Pagano on something this week, huh?

[Myles]

It is a human factor. Mistakes are made. All of us can make a mistake when you are under pressure. We are sitting at home kicked back and watching TV. Easy calls for us. We don't have cameras on us. We don't have a head set on trying to listen what is said. We don't have a player in our face telling you he made the play. We are not trying to see the reply with all that going on. All within 15 seconds or so. These are judgment calls To make such a critical issue out of this is nit picking. The was one play the Colts got by with when it was challenged by Tampa of a non catch that was obvious not a catch. It didn't go their way. Yesterday was a good win. Played kind of sloppy in the first half but made some fantastic adjustments and come out and performed very well in the second half. Now we are debating over this? Like I said before a couple of other times, tough crowd.

Just to be clear, my comment was about how teams do this, not bashing the Colts from yesterday.

With a correct system in place (as some teams seem to), most of your points are removed.  It should not be made by the HC who's looking at a grainy replay on a big screen.   If the guys upstairs say don't challenge, he shouldn't challenge.   If the guys don't tell him not to challenge, then it's up to him. 

 

  

My original post:

As a whole with the upstairs staff dictating what should and should not be challenged, I'm amazed at how inept some teams are.  Wouldn't you think you would have 2 guys in a room watching the game on monitors as well as the live TV feed?   They would have direct access to the head coaches headphone feed.  The Buffalo Bills had 2 cases yesterday where they would have won the challenge.   They didn't challenge either of them.   You see that way too often.    It's either they do not listen to their people or they don't have a system in place.   Since it would be very little money to have the system in place, that seems as unlikely as the coach ignoring the advice.   So if both are so unlikely, what is the deal?   I suppose the players opinion would factor into it some, but you wouldn't think that would override the upstairs advice.

[ColtsLegacy]

Assuming it was the guys in the booth calling for the challenges, they should be on the hot seat. Last week they don't call down for a challenge on the AJ TD and this week one really bad and one questionable challenge. How do I get their job?

 

It's not like these guys are specialists who can't be replaced/upgraded easily if they don't cut it.

[Dark_Indy]

Gang, 

 

I was ready to compliment the entire coaching staff for these past 3 wins and really keeping the team together and solid through injuries etc.  But both of our  "challenges" were 100% obviously not going to be decided in our favor from the live look through each view they showed afterwards.   It is calls like that which add legitimate ammo to the "fire Pagano" legions.   For me they tainted an otherwise solid coaching job (except for trying over and over to run Gore wide.... throw it to the backs outside, run them inside.... it isn't that tough).  

 

Your thoughts?  We really could have gotten screwed, as we likely lost 3 points in the first half by losing the timeout, and if a big bad call was against us in the second half, we were out of challenges early.  

 

We won the game. We move on to next week against the Steelers. So the staff made two goofy challenges. Will anyone remember this by the end of the year? Nope. Are you just looking for reasons to whine about the Colts?

[jet1968]

Cant use them in the next game. If you need a timeout anyways then go ahead and use them.

[Myles]

Assuming it was the guys in the booth calling for the challenges, they should be on the hot seat. Last week they don't call down for a challenge on the AJ TD and this week one really bad and one questionable challenge. How do I get their job?

 

It's not like these guys are specialists who can't be replaced/upgraded easily if they don't cut it.

That is if the Colts use a solid system for replay challenges.  

I am convinced it varies team to team.

[buck_hunter21]

They were both bad. I'm also a little surprised by so many not seeing it as an issue. They aren't just used for timeouts.....after the 2nd challenge we were out of challenges for the game.

[crazycolt1]

They were both bad. I'm also a little surprised by so many not seeing it as an issue. They aren't just used for timeouts.....after the 2nd challenge we were out of challenges for the game.

It is a human issue. Mistakes happen on just about every play by someone. It's only an issue if you let it be or if your looking at something to be negative about.

[crazycolt1]

Assuming it was the guys in the booth calling for the challenges, they should be on the hot seat. Last week they don't call down for a challenge on the AJ TD and this week one really bad and one questionable challenge. How do I get their job?

 

It's not like these guys are specialists who can't be replaced/upgraded easily if they don't cut it.

The world is coming to an end. The sky is falling. Anything else?

[ColtsLegacy]

The world is coming to an end. The sky is falling. Anything else?

Good god.

[ColtsLegacy]

That is if the Colts use a solid system for replay challenges.

I am convinced it varies team to team.

I think the system is pretty standard league wide. But, yes, your first sentence is correct.

[Myles]

I think the system is pretty standard league wide. But, yes, your first sentence is correct.

Don't be too sure.    The Bills had 2 easy winnable challenges yesterday.   They didn't throw the flag on either of them.   I've seen it with other teams as well.  

[IndyRC_Racer]

Yesterday's poor use of challenges is just another small example that we need a better overall coaching staff. Please note that I'm not saying we need wholesale changes, just a better staff. Small mistakes can often change the momentum in the game. Thankfully these coaching mistakes didn't cost us this game.

 

I do have a few questions though...

- What is Pagano record concerning challenges?

- How does it compare to league averages?

- What process do Colts use to critique coaching failures and how do they improve on this type of issue?

 

These would be great questions that someone from the local media could ask the coach or GM. Unfortunately our local media either asks soft questions or has journalists who would rather draw more attention to themselves.

[Myles]

It is a human issue. Mistakes happen on just about every play by someone. It's only an issue if you let it be or if your looking at something to be negative about.

Much less a "human issue" with some teams.   If the call from upstairs is "DO NOT CHALLENGE", The human factor is removed.  

The head coach should not be worrying about if the ball hit the ground on a catch on the other side of the field.   If he hears a "CHALLENGE" in his headphones, he should challenge the call.