Total rebuild narrative

[Jackie Daytona]

Listening to Kravitz on The Fan this morning....  and I don't know if I completely agree with their argument.  Yeah, I don't EXPECT a winning record this year.  Almost solely due to having a rookie QB and rookie CBs.....  

 

Outside of that, where's the "talentless tear down" narrative coming from?  This isn't an old team....  and it's not a team without talent, witness, they won four games and almost 6 or 7 last year in the NFL WITHOUT a QB?! 

 

I'm just not going to be surprised with 7 or 8 wins either, and who knows, maybe 9 or more, weirder things have happened.  I expect 5-6 wins though.  I just don't get the "jettison everyone, all 53 need to be rookies just like AR" media narrative.

[CoachLite]

As with all narratives, they don't have to be true, they just need someone to believe them. Some people will believe almost anything.

[BlackTiger]

It might be a tough year for colts writers.  No one really has any expectations and we just want to see a rookie improve

 

They can get a good story or two out of that but its going to be a long 17 weeks for them

[csmopar]

26 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

Listening to Kravitz on The Fan this morning....  and I don't know if I completely agree with their argument.  Yeah, I don't EXPECT a winning record this year.  Almost solely due to having a rookie QB and rookie CBs.....  

 

Outside of that, where's the "talentless tear down" narrative coming from?  This isn't an old team....  and it's not a team without talent, witness, they won four games and almost 6 or 7 last year in the NFL WITHOUT a QB?! 

 

I'm just not going to be surprised with 7 or 8 wins either, and who knows, maybe 9 or more, weirder things have happened.  I expect 5-6 wins though.  I just don't get the "jettison everyone, all 53 need to be rookies just like AR" media narrative.

It’s all about the clicks man. The more provocative the article, the more traffic. That’s what’s wrong with todays media 

[Scott Pennock]

I believe the average age of our team is 25 overall…..subject to change at cutdown day.

 

However, retooling on the fly is far different than rebuilding - talking heads like to have their click bait! Lol

 

We have veteran leadership and pro bowlers/all pros at almost every level of the team….

 

JT - if he pulls his head out of his 4th point of contact

 

Kelly, Q and Smith on the OLine

 

Buck and Stewart on the DLine

 

Shaq at LB and Zaire to a degree as a team captain

 

Moore in the DB room 

 

Dulin as a Special Teams ace

 

So yeah they’re integrating A LOT of young talent like Raimann, Pierce and Downs, Paye/Dayo and a young vet in Ekuban, Brents/Rush/Jones/Flowers/Baker at corner and young veterans like Thomas and Blackmon at Safety.

 

Of course the new QB too in AR5….

 

That is retooling a roster with a solid base to build on.

 

 I still think they will surprise most and win 9 games…..

[CoachLite]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

It’s all about the clicks man. The more provocative the article, the more traffic. That’s what’s wrong with todays media 

The more 'far out' the article, the more traffic. There's yer problem.

[CoachLite]

Just now, CoachLite said:

The more 'far out' the article, the more traffic. There's yer problem.

Headline: A Space Alien is Coaching Anthony Richardson - total nonsense, but someone will read it and think that's gotta be true.

[coltsfan1965]

I will compare it to Luck's first year. No one knew what to expect, so we just enjoyed what was there. AR is not Andrew Luck. He's as physically talented - probably more so. He is not nearly as NFL ready. That may actually be better. There is nothing to unlearn. There will not be nearly the dependence on him. Other players can develop and shine. 

[Jackie Daytona]

1 hour ago, coltsfan1965 said:

I will compare it to Luck's first year. No one knew what to expect, so we just enjoyed what was there. AR is not Andrew Luck. He's as physically talented - probably more so. He is not nearly as NFL ready. That may actually be better. There is nothing to unlearn. There will not be nearly the dependence on him. Other players can develop and shine. 

He's definitely more physically talented, that's measurable after all.. not that Luck wasn't gifted...  the grooming for the position and supposed eidetic memory are the differences there.....

[Superman]

It's like people expect either a complete tear down and rebuild, or for the team to try to push all-in. This is obviously a transitional year, and expectations should be drastically lowered. But it seems like people are judging the team as if they were trying to compete with the big dogs in the AFC right now. And that's kind of silly, since the primary objective at this point is determining whether or not we have a QB.

 

 

[Gramz]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

It's like people expect either a complete tear down and rebuild, or for the team to try to push all-in. This is obviously a transitional year, and expectations should be drastically lowered. But it seems like people are judging the team as if they were trying to compete with the big dogs in the AFC right now. And that's kind of silly, since the primary objective at this point is determining whether or not we have a QB.

 

 

Agreed.

 

We all want to have  winning team again....some just want instant gratification or else see it as failure.  

 

I'm "all in" as always hoping for the best.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, coltsfan1965 said:

I will compare it to Luck's first year. No one knew what to expect, so we just enjoyed what was there. AR is not Andrew Luck. He's as physically talented - probably more so. He is not nearly as NFL ready. That may actually be better. There is nothing to unlearn. There will not be nearly the dependence on him. Other players can develop and shine. 

He may be better than luck statistcally  and not win as many games. The one statically I feel he can be better than is Luck's 54 percent  completion rate. He may finish between 56 to 64 depending  on how much running happens. The franchise record for rushing tds by a colts qb should fall. Not sure he throws enough to get over 4000 yards, but he has an outside chance at throwing close to 30 tds if all his weapons  are healthy.

[throwing BBZ]

 

 I'm ready for a 2023 season Colts positive thread.

And this thread reads like one.

 I would very much like to thank you gentlemen Colts fans for your intelligent insights to where things are headed. 

 Yes there will be plenty of yikes, but I think we are going to grind on some D's this season and that will be fun to watch.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Not a rebuild. Just a retool 

[BlackTiger]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

It's like people expect either a complete tear down and rebuild

Personally i think the writers want it to be that way but not necessarily the majority of fans.

 

Kravitz and Doyle both come off as frustrated that they have to cover this team this year.  Pretty clear most people only really care about AR and he may not even do much.  though year for writers i guess

 

[CoachLite]

I'd say it is more of a 'flexible adaptation' than a retool. Many of the players remain the same, but the strategies and schemes will change to reflect a new reality.

[coltsfeva]

9 hours ago, Jackie Daytona said:

Listening to Kravitz on The Fan this morning....  and I don't know if I completely agree with their argument.  Yeah, I don't EXPECT a winning record this year.  Almost solely due to having a rookie QB and rookie CBs.....  

 

Outside of that, where's the "talentless tear down" narrative coming from?  This isn't an old team....  and it's not a team without talent, witness, they won four games and almost 6 or 7 last year in the NFL WITHOUT a QB?! 

 

I'm just not going to be surprised with 7 or 8 wins either, and who knows, maybe 9 or more, weirder things have happened.  I expect 5-6 wins though.  I just don't get the "jettison everyone, all 53 need to be rookies just like AR" media narrative.

  Saw him this morning on Kevin & Query and Jake said something to the effect of “they’re not going to be good, let’s be real, here”. 
    Kravitz chimed in that there are no receivers….(I like what we have)

  The core of the team that beat KC and lost by a point to the Eagles is here (with another year under their belts) and I’m expecting them to compete for the AFCS title.

   I think most commentators don’t want to look like they are too optimistic, for fear of being labeled a “homer”.  The result is an understatement of this team.
  Thanks for the thread, and Go Colts!!!

[craigerb]

12 hours ago, Stephen said:

The one statistic I feel AR5 can be better is Luck's 54 percent completion rate.

Luck had 61% rate.

[2006Coltsbestever]

I definitely don't see our team void of talent. There are many teams more talented but to say we are even rebuilding is off base. We have new a QB who is talented by the way. Last I looked, Pittman, JT - if he plays, Nelson, Smith, Kelly, Leonard, Buckner, and Moore have been around a few years. This is not a complete rebuild. We have a team that can win 8 games as well, that would be a real successful rookie season for AR going by wins. 

[colts89]

If AR pans out to his potential in 2-3 years, and the Colts do a good job in the draft during that time, then this roster isn't that far off from being a SB team. That's how important a great QB is to an NFL roster.

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, craigerb said:

Luck had 61% rate.

Luck had a 54 percent completion  rate his rookie year look it up

[Nickster]

On 8/15/2023 at 9:40 AM, Jackie Daytona said:

He's definitely more physically talented, that's measurable after all.. not that Luck wasn't gifted...  the grooming for the position and supposed eidetic memory are the differences there.....

This is debatable IMO.

 

Luck had off the charts agility scores and AR didn’t do agility drills.

 

Check this out 

 

“The cone drill, or "L drill" as it is sometimes called, is supposed to be a receiver's specialty. However, only three wide receivers outperformed Andrew Luck's performance of 6.80 seconds. Only two tailbacks and one tight end also managed to beat the time.

To put things in a different perspective, you can look at Luck's results within a historical context at his position.”

 

Lucks agility was astounding for anyone of any size but at his size it is otherworldly.

 

there is a smart reason why AR didn’t do agilities.  I’m inclined to believe it was because it wouldn’t be particularly impressive. 
 

personally I’d sacrifice some straight line speed for agility.

 

Not saying AR isn’t an obviously astounding athlete.  But I wonder what his RAS would be if he did the abilities. My guess is not a 10.  Lucks was 9.79 with abilities and hands that aren’t impressive in size.

[craigerb]

21 hours ago, Stephen said:

Luck had a 54 percent completion  rate his rookie year look it up

...and a 61 percent completion rate look it up

[Stephen]

41 minutes ago, craigerb said:

...and a 61 percent completion rate look it up

I'm talking about for his rookie season  only not his career total.

[Stephen]

43 minutes ago, craigerb said:

...and a 61 percent completion rate look it up

54.1 was his rate his rookie season. AR should be able to complete more than 54 percent 

[SLILLINGTON10]

I think that narrative is weird as well. The colts were considered a qb away from being contenders since Luck left and the roster hasn't changed a whole lot. Last year with bad coaching and terrible qb play the colts beat KC, barely lost to philly at the last second, and should have beat the Vikings. The colts are a lot closer to a playoff team than people realize.

[BlackTiger]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:20 AM, craigerb said:

Luck had 61% rate.

That was by the end of his career.  Luck had a year in college where he threw about 55% too and that is all Richardson has played at this point.

[ColtV]

You have to consider the Colts have gone from an 11 win team to a 9 win team and finally to a 4 win team. It's not surprising that the term "rebuild" is going to be put out there for a team with a new HC and a rookie starting qb as a team's win total slide. It's certainly not technically accurate because the roster was in no way gutted(which you would see in a true rebuild), but from the outside that tag is gonna stick. 

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, BlackTiger said:

That was by the end of his career.  Luck had a year in college where he threw about 55% too and that is all Richardson has played at this point.

At the end of Luck’s career, 2018,  he completed 67 percent.   In 2016, he completed 63.5 percent.    Check out his career stats, you might be pleasantly surprised.  
 

In college, he completed 56 percent hus first year, and then over 70 percent his next two years.

[smittywerb]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:35 AM, Jackie Daytona said:

Listening to Kravitz on The Fan this morning....  and I don't know if I completely agree with their argument.  Yeah, I don't EXPECT a winning record this year.  Almost solely due to having a rookie QB and rookie CBs.....  

 

Outside of that, where's the "talentless tear down" narrative coming from?  This isn't an old team....  and it's not a team without talent, witness, they won four games and almost 6 or 7 last year in the NFL WITHOUT a QB?! 

 

I'm just not going to be surprised with 7 or 8 wins either, and who knows, maybe 9 or more, weirder things have happened.  I expect 5-6 wins though.  I just don't get the "jettison everyone, all 53 need to be rookies just like AR" media narrative.

 

agreed, I said previously I think talent we were one of the best teams to ever pick top 5 in NFL history.  Were we a SB bound team that was a QB away, no.  Were we a playoff bound team that was a QB away, yes.  Last year we showed what we can be when the QB position was playing good and the previous year we were literally one game away from making the playoffs.  I would not be surprised if the Colts are making a playoff push later this season but I also would not be surprised if we’re picking in the top 10 next year.

 

Usually, teams who pick that high are going through full rebuilds where they need talent at almost every position group.  Example, the Texans.  That’s not us.  But of course, the media pundits are going to say otherwise because we don’t get much attention unless it’s negative and last year was atrocious.

[HawaiianColt45]

I don't think we need to FULLY tear it down but my hopes aren't really high for this year. A 7-10 record with wins over division rivals and AR15 showing blaring glimpses of his ceiling is a successful year in my opinion, especially because Jacksonville looks really strong.

[AwesomeAustin]

Playing a bit of devils advocate here.  We have questions at three spots on the OL. We haven’t found the answer at DE, WR, CB, TE, and S.  We may now have a huge hole at RB.  Yes we have potential at most of those positions but that’s half our roster. Add our extremely inexperienced QB will probably play the position differently than anything we have encountered and also a rookie HC.  We are more likely to pick in the top 10 than we are to make the playoffs. I get why this idea is floated in the media.  Not sure we need a rebuild, just saying I understand why they are saying it. We will find out a lot about the roster this year. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Playing a bit of devils advocate here.  We have questions at three spots on the OL. We haven’t found the answer at DE, WR, CB, TE, and S.  We may now have a huge hole at RB.  Yes we have potential at most of those positions but that’s half our roster. Add our extremely inexperienced QB will probably play the position differently than anything we have encountered and also a rookie HC.  We are more likely to pick in the top 10 than we are to make the playoffs. I get why this idea is floated in the media.  Not sure we need a rebuild, just saying I understand why they are saying it. We will find out a lot about the roster this year. 

I see us middle of the pack, not picking in the top 10 but not making the playoffs either. Which usually is bad because picking in the top 10 is better if you have a team that really isn't a playoff team. Picking 16th or so if always a crap shoot but it all is anyway. 

 

I think if AR just plays average to above average, our defense plays above average, Leonard plays and plays good, and JT plays, I can see us winning 8 games. We aren't devoid of talent, players like Pittman, Nelson, Franklin, Moore, Buckner are all good, JT, Nelson, and Leonard are great if they play at 100%.

 

It really comes down to QB play. If AR is bad, we will be picking in the top 10, if he is above average we won't, JMO.

[TimetobringDfence!]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:55 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I definitely don't see our team void of talent. There are many teams more talented but to say we are even rebuilding is off base. We have new a QB who is talented by the way. Last I looked, Pittman, JT - if he plays, Nelson, Smith, Kelly, Leonard, Buckner, and Moore have been around a few years. This is not a complete rebuild. We have a team that can win 8 games as well, that would be a real successful rookie season for AR going by wins. 

I'm sorry but Smith and Kelly are never available and are eating at the cap IMHO. This next draft should be focused on the Oline. Finding a new C and more pieces to go around Nelson. I wouldn't be shocked if Kelly retires on us, considering he has a young family and can't stay healthy. I don't think we are a rebuild. But rebuilding the oline is coming...

[jvan1973]

23 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'm sorry but Smith and Kelly are never available and are eating at the cap IMHO. This next draft should be focused on the Oline. Finding a new C and more pieces to go around Nelson. I wouldn't be shocked if Kelly retires on us, considering he has a young family and can't stay healthy. I don't think we are a rebuild. But rebuilding the oline is coming...

Kelly started 17 games last year.   Smith started 16.   Performance dipped for sure,   but they aren't known for missing tons of games

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'm sorry but Smith and Kelly are never available and are eating at the cap IMHO. This next draft should be focused on the Oline. Finding a new C and more pieces to go around Nelson. I wouldn't be shocked if Kelly retires on us, considering he has a young family and can't stay healthy. I don't think we are a rebuild. But rebuilding the oline is coming...

Braden Smith played in 16 games last year and has rarely missed a start in his 5 year career. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

I'm sorry but Smith and Kelly are never available and are eating at the cap IMHO. This next draft should be focused on the Oline. Finding a new C and more pieces to go around Nelson. I wouldn't be shocked if Kelly retires on us, considering he has a young family and can't stay healthy. I don't think we are a rebuild. But rebuilding the oline is coming...

This comment leads me to believe you make little sense.   

[coltsva]

The Colts are in a mix of rebuilding & retooling. They are rebuilding their coaching staff, the QB position, and the defensive backfield. They are retooling at TE, RB, & OLine. 

 

 

[AwesomeAustin]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I see us middle of the pack, not picking in the top 10 but not making the playoffs either. Which usually is bad because picking in the top 10 is better if you have a team that really isn't a playoff team. Picking 16th or so if always a crap shoot but it all is anyway. 

 

I think if AR just plays average to above average, our defense plays above average, Leonard plays and plays good, and JT plays, I can see us winning 8 games. We aren't devoid of talent, players like Pittman, Nelson, Franklin, Moore, Buckner are all good, JT, Nelson, and Leonard are great if they play at 100%.

 

It really comes down to QB play. If AR is bad, we will be picking in the top 10, if he is above average we won't, JMO.

You are right and it comes down to QB play. I’m expecting a season of growing pains with a few flashes of brilliance. The overwhelming majority of rookie QBs struggle and I expect no different from AR. For him to play average would definitely exceed expectations. It’s possible if the offensive players in question all perform.  I see us picking in the 8-12 range but with a clear picture of what we are to do with the roster. That’s a win in my book. 

[TimetobringDfence!]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Kelly started 17 games last year.   Smith started 16.   Performance dipped for sure,   but they aren't known for missing tons of games

Kelly had an elbow injury for many games. And Smith has missed a lot in prior seasons. You can tell with each player that injuries of directly affected there ability to play.