2022 NFL Draft Discussion Thread

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Indeee said:

The Colts have zero need for a hands TE. They have Cox who just got a contract and Granson who has yet to even get significant snaps. WR is the pick, has to be

I hope it is WR and I like Mo but another TE would still be a great pick.

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

@NFLfan I made a mistake of going to our Vikings forum, well there seems to be a fanboy of the new GM, just like NVF for Cousins.

 

He has been constantly giving lecture about how every fan who uses any NFL trade value chart available in public has been using an ancient method and not understanding modern analytics, calling them goofballs and accusing others of calling him psychopath. Apparently, PFF has some metric like WAR that assesses trade values and that's the only place where Vikings come out as winners in the trade, other than - of course - GM's understanding of analytics. Apparently, new GM is hired to play moneyball and Vikings fans don't get it. 

 

Now I remember why I stay away from there. 

 

I read that. There was a lot of back and forth about it. PFF has stats that do not make sense to me. I guess I am not analytical enough to understand it. We have some analytical folks here. I wonder what they think of this PFF WAR metric. @Shive, @Superman, @Colt.45 (anyone else?)

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I read that. There was a lot of back and forth about it. PFF has stats that do not make sense to me. I guess I am not analytical enough to understand it. We have some analytical folks here. I wonder what they think of this PFF WAR metric. @Shive, @Superman, @Colt.45 (anyone else?)

I get analytical stuff but you still have to go by eye test too. Some people just live on analytics and it is important but not everything. Never been a huge fan of PFF, I have came around to realize it is a pretty good measure of a player but it also has major flaws. If someone went by PFF back in 2012, RG3 would've smoked Andrew Luck in their rookie seasons. That wasn't the case by the eye test though (Luck even threw for more yards) and we even won more games.

[jonjon]

25 minutes ago, Indeee said:

The Colts have zero need for a hands TE. They have Cox who just got a contract and Granson who has yet to even get significant snaps. WR is the pick, has to be

Disagree. Not sold on Cox ever being an elite TE. McBride has a very good chance of being one, and given our need for receivers anyway, he would be a great addition. 

[Indeee]

10 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Disagree. Not sold on Cox ever being an elite TE. McBride has a very good chance of being one, and given our need for receivers anyway, he would be a great addition. 

I agree as well however if the Colts didn't feel that way, they would've just let Cox walk, but they didn't

[ColtV]

43 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Disagree. Not sold on Cox ever being an elite TE. McBride has a very good chance of being one, and given our need for receivers anyway, he would be a great addition. 

100%. MAC has been with the team 5(?) years. if he was going to break out it would have happened already. And there are still FA wide receivers who could help the Colts, not so with tight end. And McBride is the best tight end in the draft, well ahead of the pack.

[jonjon]

40 minutes ago, Indeee said:

I agree as well however if the Colts didn't feel that way, they would've just let Cox walk, but they didn't

Not necessarily. They gave him a modest contract, which logically means they expect (or hope for at least) OKish performance from him. I think we need to be much more than OKish at TE given our lean WR corps.

[jonjon]

3 minutes ago, ColtV said:

100%. MAC has been with the team 5(?) years. if he was going to break out it would have happened already. And there are still FA wide receivers who could help the Colts, not so with tight end. And McBride is the best tight end in the draft, well ahead of the pack.

Exactly. Doyle was never the same after he got hurt a few years back and Cox had every opportunity but hasn't done much. I'm quite underwhelmed if he's all we have at TE. 

[Moosejawcolt]

12 hours ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Said same thing.

 

 

I feel like Colts may have to move up to get the best LT and WR on the board.  

[Lancer1]

53 minutes ago, jonjon said:

Disagree. Not sold on Cox ever being an elite TE. McBride has a very good chance of being one, and given our need for receivers anyway, he would be a great addition. 

 

4 minutes ago, ColtV said:

100%. MAC has been with the team 5(?) years. if he was going to break out it would have happened already. And there are still FA wide receivers who could help the Colts, not so with tight end. And McBride is the best tight end in the draft, well ahead of the pack.

It would be difficult at best far any pass catcher to break out or look elite when we're changing starting  quarterbacks every season - hopefully the acquisition of Matty Ice puts a halt to that roundabout.

[jonjon]

I don't think changing QBs in itself matters so much, it's about how good that QB is. If you swapped out say Wilson for Rodgers in Denver, the WRs would probably do about as well with either.

 

Cox's QB have been: 

 

Luck

Brissett

Rivers 

Wentz

 

Except for Brisset, those are good to great QBs (yes despite his lapses, overall Wentz was a good QB...just inconsistent) and our WRs corps has been mostly underwhelming in that time on the whole...plenty of room for a top TE to break out, esp after Cox came in right when Doyle got hurt and was never the same. Nah not buying it. If Cox is all we have at TE to speak of, expect modest numbers at best. If he is basically all we have I hope I'm wrong. Ryan does love a good TE.

[Hoose]

1 hour ago, jonjon said:

Disagree. Not sold on Cox ever being an elite TE. McBride has a very good chance of being one, and given our need for receivers anyway, he would be a great addition. 

I agree with this. There is a crying need for a true 3 down TE. I’m not sure if that’s McBride or a third round type like Ruckert, who is a great blocker and has solid receiving skills. Regardless, the need for some fresh talent at TE is glaring. 

[Shive]

2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I read that. There was a lot of back and forth about it. PFF has stats that do not make sense to me. I guess I am not analytical enough to understand it. We have some analytical folks here. I wonder what they think of this PFF WAR metric. @Shive, @Superman, @Colt.45 (anyone else?)

WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is a commonly used metric in a few sports, mainly baseball, but has been applied to the NFL as well. I don't put a ton of stock in it, but I can see what it tries to tell us. Pretty much it's quantifying two players, comparing the replacement player to the one that he's replacing, with taking into consideration the position they play. Based on the positional value and the difference in the two players, a WAR value is determined to show essentially how many more wins the replacement player is worth over the player they replaced. Since there's unquantifiable aspects to a player, I don't think it's by any means full-proof, but for company like PFF whose entire existence is based on quantifying what would otherwise be subjective play, they tend to do a pretty solid job of at least giving a good indication of how much more valuable a player should be in place of another.

[C_Lew]

I disagree with anyone saying we need to trade up tonight. There’s tons of talent still left at the positions we need. If anything, we have an opportunity to trade back and still get a great player.

 

I really doubt we target Pickens. As others have stated, he’s a classic head case. Sure, he has elite talent, no question. His character traits are abysmal, though. He doesn’t seem to be a Ballard type pick at all. 
 

I’m also hoping we don’t draft Christian Watson, unless we draft another WR immediately afterwards. Watson has great potential, but he will probably take a few years to adjust to the NFL. We need someone who is ready to make an immediate impact. 
 

I’m hopeful we land someone like McBride in the 2nd, and then Wandale Robinson in the 3rd. I would be ecstatic if that scenario played out.

[jonjon]

If we go WR in the 2d, I think Watson or Bell are the best choices, though not quite what we'd have hoped for. Watson is raw as stated and has some dropsie issues, while Bell is great but has no real speed, which is exactly what we need. Moore is super fast but super tiny. Anyone we pick has a glaring flaw basically. Think who we could have had with that 1st round pick  

[PureLuck]

 

[Colt.45]

5 hours ago, Shive said:

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, because he has flashing red sirens, not just red flags. 

 

4 hours ago, krunk said:

No i didnt get that far into it. Made a mistake on not looking enough into his character

One thing to note about us picking him is this. While character is a huge deal to Ballard, he noted that he thinks the locker room is ready and now more able to handle more volatile characters. Add in the fact that the new WR coach is a legend who is still young enough to relate with Pickens, and is also young enough that Pickens would have seen him play and that respect level will be there innately. I wouldn't rule Pickens out at all. 

The character in the room is great but sometimes you need an a55hple to really come in there and push the team past the hump because while Pickens is immature and does dumb stuff, he's also super confident guy who wants to win and might ride the aggression edge sometimes. We saw Pittman do that more last year. It's a character edge that can be wickedly good to have as long as you can rein it in and control it......and i think Reggie Wayne can.

 

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Indeee said:

The Colts have zero need for a hands TE. They have Cox who just got a contract and Granson who has yet to even get significant snaps. WR is the pick, has to be

Granson is more of a big slot receiver, and not really an In-Line TE.  Right now, Cox is the only one we have other than PS quality guys.

 

But I don't think we take one at 42, and I don't think McBride is the player.  More like Dulcich Woods or Kolar or many others.

[Hawkeyecolt]

Watson or Moore should be the pick at 42.  

[JediXMan]

Apparently something is up with Pickens but so many people are being vague about it.

 

 

[jonjon]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

 

One thing to note about us picking him is this. While character is a huge deal to Ballard, he noted that he thinks the locker room is ready and now more able to handle more volatile characters. Add in the fact that the new WR coach is a legend who is still young enough to relate with Pickens, and is also young enough that Pickens would have seen him play and that respect level will be there innately. I wouldn't rule Pickens out at all. 

 

This is all wishful thinking which I hope the Colts warroom does not share. You assume that aholes want to be "helped" and that is rarely the case. Aholes almost always stay aholes. God knows the NFL has been littered with more than its share in recent years (and almost always it's a WR, which I always found odd). 

 

Quote

The character in the room is great but sometimes you need an a55hple to really come in there and push the team past the hump 

No you don't. You never need or want aholes on the team. I'd rather draft a punter than this guy. 

[stitches]

Rumor is Andrew Booth has some serious back issue that might be dropping him in the draft. 

[NFLfan]

3 hours ago, Shive said:

WAR (Wins Above Replacement) is a commonly used metric in a few sports, mainly baseball, but has been applied to the NFL as well. I don't put a ton of stock in it, but I can see what it tries to tell us. Pretty much it's quantifying two players, comparing the replacement player to the one that he's replacing, with taking into consideration the position they play. Based on the positional value and the difference in the two players, a WAR value is determined to show essentially how many more wins the replacement player is worth over the player they replaced. Since there's unquantifiable aspects to a player, I don't think it's by any means full-proof, but for company like PFF whose entire existence is based on quantifying what would otherwise be subjective play, they tend to do a pretty solid job of at least giving a good indication of how much more valuable a player should be in place of another.

 

I know WAR in baseball but not in trades in football. I don't see how PFF believes the Vikings won the trade yesterday. They traded #12 and #46 to the Lions for #32, #34 and #66. Dropping 20 spots in the first round seems like it should be worth a lot more than moving up 12 spots in the second (from 46 to 34) and adding another pick (#66). JMO

[CheezyColt]

Just now, NFLfan said:

 

I know WAR in baseball but not in trades in football. I don't see how PFF believes the Vikings won the trade yesterday. They traded #12 and #46 to the Lions for #32, #34 and #66. Dropping 20 spots in the first round seems like it should be worth a lot more than moving up 12 spots in the second (from 46 to 34) and adding another pick (#66). JMO

I was blown away at how little DET paid to move up 20 spots in the 1st with a division rival. Felt like MIN got fleeced.

[Colt.45]

43 minutes ago, jonjon said:

This is all wishful thinking which I hope the Colts warroom does not share. You assume that aholes want to be "helped" and that is rarely the case. Aholes almost always stay aholes. God knows the NFL has been littered with more than its share in recent years (and almost always it's a WR, which I always found odd). 

 

No you don't. You never need or want aholes on the team. I'd rather draft a punter than this guy. 

Guys grow up. Not everyone stays so-called bad. This dude didnt do what Tyreek Hill did. Years in, the story is Hill grew up and has been professionally a model citizen and is one of the best WR in the game and highest compensated as a result. 

And the competitive fire Pickens brings that i'm talking of is very good. I like the fire Pittman shows, that aggressive side can be money. Not for everyone and needs to be wielded carefully but yeah, swagger is no bad thing. DK has it.

 

All i'm saying is the kid can play, made mistakes, is a fiery guy, and needs role models which our GM has said we have and can handle his type. Not really a controversial statement. Kids deserve a chance to grow, the question is whether we can handle it, and i think we can. And then whether he can add explosion to the offense, and he absolutely can. 

[NFLfan]

4 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

I was blown away at how little DET paid to move up 20 spots in the 1st with a division rival. Felt like MIN got fleeced.

 

I completely agree. I feel there must be more to this. But PFF said the Vikings won the trade. I don't get it.

 

@VikingsFanInChennai you were right about the spotty internet access here in the Adirondacks. Hopefully I will be able to follow the 2nd and 3rd rounds tonight. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I didn't go through this entire thread so I don't know if it was talked about or not.

Did you see the Rams HC & GM laugh at belichek's  1st round pick?

They said they had a 4th round grade on him lol. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

Just now, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

I didn't go through this entire thread so I don't know if it was talked about or not.

Did you see the Rams HC & GM laugh at belichek's  1st round pick?

They said they had a 4th round grade on him lol. 

BB has always drafted bad.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

That sounds like they want a QB.

 

 

[jonjon]

1 hour ago, Colt.45 said:

Guys grow up.

lol at trying to pick a fight with childish insults and telling others they need to grow up. Try taking your own advice. Not wasting any more time on you, including your making excuses for punks. If they draft him it is IMO a big mistake, but we'll see. I've always been proud of the Colts for having a low tolerance for that and avoiding guys like that coming out of college, would hate to see them change their mind. 

 

Back to the draft. 

 

Raimann is IMO the best value and would probably be my pick, but he won't last to our pick. 

 

 

[csmopar]

So are we talking In here or I. The day 2 thread? @NFLfan

[jonjon]

Didn't realize there was one, but whatever! Moving there I guess 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Packers are trading up.

[Indyfan4life]

Green Bay selects Watson.

[Lancer1]

Another WR off the board.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If Ballard just sits back we won’t get a WR at 42. 

[tvturner]

Roger McCreary is a great player for Tennessee 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Jets have traded your to 36.