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Colts Sign Nt Brandon Mckinney [Merge]

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Bleedinblue Walk On

Bleedinblue

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0 sacks

NT do not typically get any sacks and get few tackles. They are there to take on two defenders and eat up blockers so the LBs can make the tackles. They are the unsung heros of most great 3-4 defenses. Don't anticipate any of our future NTs getting more than 1 or possibly most 2 in a year..ever.

He also has no pick sixes...When BM was asked why he has none, he simply replied, "not my job"

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ColtJ82 Walk On

ColtJ82

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Your wrong Giants offered big money to Brackeet & Bullet had multiple offers as well, heck just heard even with a bum shoulder people are looking at Bullet Source Sirus NFL radio.

I know, I know....everyone is wrong. What were those contract details from the Giants? Who else had offers out to Bullet?

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jwilli69 Walk On

jwilli69

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I disagree. You have to look at them when they were signed, not when they were let go.

  1. Brackett would have definitely found spots on other teams as a coverage LB when he was younger. Like Ray Lewis who needed Ngata to resurrect his career by clogging the middle letting him make plays, any MLB needs that D-line support up front, that was lacking for the most of Brackett's career. When he was able to roam when he was younger, he was a good MLB. Maybe not a great one but definitely a good one, IMO, that made plays.
  2. Other UDFAs - Melvin Bullitt, he stepped in pretty well for Bob Sanders till his shoulder issues started taking a toll.
  3. Not to mention, our best UDFA signing - Jeff Saturday.
  4. We do need to be reminded that Blair White was a UDFA as well and is an intelligent slot wideout for the rotation. Blair White had several other teams call him when they realized he was going undrafted and he chose us because we had No.18 at the helm.
  5. Dominic Rhodes was an invaluable UDFA.

So, let us not knock down Polian's UDFAs with a broad brush just because they had faded towards the end. They were let go because their skills had eroded but when they were drafted and their skills were good, they made more than ample plays I can recall. Just because Polian did not win more SBs, it does not mean we put the "Johnny come lately" Grigson on a pedestal. It is fair enough to ask for Grigson to be given a chance but let us not act like Polian did not put in enough pieces to keep the winning going. Polian did fade eventually but he did shine, at least till 2006, IMO.

People have such a short memory. Just because someone has a divorce, it is no reason to "trash" the ones involved in the previous relationship. That is how I see it.

Polian received far more credit than he deserved IMO. could never assemble an online and couldn't develope a dl during his tenure except maybe for the 2006 Super Bowl run. Had manning not been the qb, no way we win enough to have the chance for a sb run. He hit on some udfa yes, but he missed on a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders as well. His issues really came out when he couldnt hit on his first round picks after 2006 or so.

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Andy Walk On

Andy

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He's a backup at best, I don't see him as a starter. Maybe he could be since it's always been Ngata at the NT spot, but I still would rather draft a NT like Ta'amu or Hicks. I don't see him as "our starting NT"

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Douzer Active Roster

Douzer

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Playing NT for the Chargers, then the Ravens.....and then Grigson & Pagano, 2 intelligent NFL people, making a point to sign him as a free agent, i'd say he "probably is" good.

I'm in the same zone you are. This guy competed and won his roster spot on those teams. Earning a Backup role on either of those two particular squads requires talent. That talent earned him 6 additional years to refine his craft and to do so under notable and respected defensive coaching.

Second observation; If the Colts are now a 3-4 defense, they absolutely must have 2 NT's, a starter and a quality backup. So it seems to me that one of those two needs has just been filled. To me, this all adds up to a really good signing.

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ColtJ82 Walk On

ColtJ82

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No now Grigson brings in a bunch of stiffs & people are like lordy hes awesome because he brought in a 340 non starter for 6 YEARS WEEEEEEEEEEEEE. The ONLY GOOD SIGN'S so for are Satele & the shot on Avery. Maybe Zib we will see. I have to laugh He brings in some loser OL guys from the Eagles who by the way line SUCKED & the OL is fixed. Ladies & gentlemen buckle up its going to be a LONGGGGGGGGG year. LOL

Don't like the Redding signing? I mean with our cap space we are simply trying to field a team, not sign superstars.

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chad72 Ring of Honor

chad72

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Polian received far more credit than he deserved IMO. could never assemble an online and couldn't develope a dl during his tenure except maybe for the 2006 Super Bowl run. Had manning not been the qb, no way we win enough to have the chance for a sb run. He hit on some udfa yes, but he missed on a lot of 2nd and 3rd rounders as well. His issues really came out when he couldnt hit on his first round picks after 2006 or so.

Yes, I agree. The draft, being an inexact science, we probably let go of as many draft picks after their rookie contract, as we signed UDFAs, it seemed like. The impact players drafted in early rounds not making up for lost players eventually caught up with us after 2006.

True. In 2008, it was a travesty to have Eric Foster and Dawson play DT as a tandem :). Yes, Ed Johnson smoked his future away and Pitcock quit on us all after the draft, coming off a very good year for our D. That is when I felt that if we had stocked up on a DT or two, that could have served us good on the D-line should things like that happen. Either we were snake bitten or we did not stock up enough big bodies on the D-line, same could be said about the O-line.

I always envied the fact that Brady, whenever he throws multiple INTs in the AFCCG in 2007 & 2011 and the passing game is not working, he could go to plan B with his O-line to run block and save the day. We just did not have that option. If the Jets in 2009 are the #1 pass D, we still have to pass against them well to beat them and we did. But more times than not, it was the short end of the stick unfortunately.

So, in short, yes, I like the direction of the Grigson moves. But I am going to temper my excitement and let it play out.

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Balzer40 Walk On

Balzer40

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I like this signing and in fact, mentioned his name here a while back. He isn't Ngata, but he is a mountain of a man and will be able to take on multiple blockers and make it much harder to run on. The defense is starting to take shape.

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bahhummbug Walk On

bahhummbug

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Why is he "probably not" good?

Playing NT for the Chargers, then the Ravens.....and then Grigson & Pagano, 2 intelligent NFL people, making a point to sign him as a free agent, i'd say he "probably is" good.

Agree dont believe a big DEf minded coach would pick him up if he was horrible.Pags and Grigs moves so far have been low risk high reward i trust them on their picks.
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bahhummbug Walk On

bahhummbug

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He's a backup at best, I don't see him as a starter. Maybe he could be since it's always been Ngata at the NT spot, but I still would rather draft a NT like Ta'amu or Hicks. I don't see him as "our starting NT"

Definately agree on drafting a NT but we needed a vet NT for leadership atleast.I love the signing give the rookie we sign a lil time to learn the system and NFL before we throw him in the trenches.McKinney will bring more vet experience on the D-Line that we need WTG PAGS GRIGS
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Smitto Walk On

Smitto

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No now Grigson brings in a bunch of stiffs & people are like lordy hes awesome because he brought in a 340 non starter for 6 YEARS WEEEEEEEEEEEEE. The ONLY GOOD SIGN'S so for are Satele & the shot on Avery. Maybe Zib we will see. I have to laugh He brings in some loser OL guys from the Eagles who by the way line SUCKED & the OL is fixed. Ladies & gentlemen buckle up its going to be a LONGGGGGGGGG year. LOL

I don't think you have ANY idea of what your talking about, Winston Justice from the eagles was at the top in his position before he got injured and when he came back he for off on the wrong foot with Howard mudd who likes smaller lineman and so he was released because he didn't get his job back.

As for the latest signing its hard to start when you have top DTs in front of you especially if your an undrafted free agent, the man has size and I love his height because that means he will be getting the lowest when it comes to bull rushing.

Just cause you don't know them don't mean they aren't good, the colts are basically building a running team cause all of the lineman they have signed are best at run blocking.

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Smitto Walk On

Smitto

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I'm not saying this is a bad signing, I actually like it, but everyone keeps saying he was behind Ngata in Bmore. If I'm not mistaken, Ngata is a DE in their system. McKinney has been behind this guy for the last two years.

terrence-cody-weigh-in_display_image.jpg?1295627643

My apologies for the Not Safe For Eyes picture. haha

Ngata is a NT not a DE the DEs were suggs and redding

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MFT5 Practice Squad

MFT5

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Ngata is a NT not a DE the DEs were suggs and redding

U seem very confident in ure post but ure a little misinformed in ure details given...Although ngata has the size of a traditional nt he and redding man'd the DE position for the ravens while Mount Cody played the nt when the ravens showed their 3-4 look.

When the ravens went 4-3 and sometimes dime in certain situations Ngata kicked inside to play the nose

...Mckinney was the main guy behind Mount Cody at the nose in the 3-4 scheme

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mvbighead Walk On

mvbighead

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Wooo Hooo! There's my...Big Fattie...Big Fattie....Big Fattie :clap: Thanks Grigs, now find me another one in the draft!

This is a good signing in that this guy was solid rotational depth with the Ravens. He wasn't a starter but he got decent playing time. Last year, McKinney started 0 games and had 14 tackles compared to Fili Moala who has 22 tackles and started 14 games. He will be an immediate upgrade to the DT's that we currently have on the roster as none were the true nose tackle types needed to run Pagano's defense. This kid fits that bill and when paired with whoever else we draft should make for a decent rotation at that position.

This signing also gives us the luxory to take a NT later in the draft and grab the best offensive player available in some of the earlier rounds. I think this was a good move for the Colts. We are ready for the draft now folks!

Why oh why do we count tackles on defensive linemen as if it means something?

I couldn't care less if our front 3 in the 3-4 combine for 10 total tackles this season. If they're clogging the middle, forcing runs outside, etc. etc. etc. they're doing their job. They will usually have more combined tackles than 10, but the NT specifically generally doesn't get much more than 40 a season. Their job is simply to occupy two blockers to open things up for the rest of the defense.

The key important factor here is how does a big guy affect the defensive unit as a whole. Haloti Ngata did big things from Ray Lewis. I just hope McKinney can give us half of that.

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KarlKuffs Walk On

KarlKuffs

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Run defense is a function of the DTs holding off the OLs before they can get to the LBs so that the LBs and/or DBs can finish the plays. Your whole premise of blaming Brackett exclusively for the run D is short sighted. The LBs we let go - Clint Session, Cato June, Mike Peterson, David Thornton were all signed by other teams after they played out their rookie contract. Brackett could have gotten lesser money somewhere else, his 3rd contract was overpaying him for his age, I agree on the overpaying part but not the fact that would not be in demand anywhere. The same reason that Bob Sanders and our secondary was one of the top 5 injured secondaries in the league (because they had to play the run more because the DTs or even our DEs could not hold them at a stalemate for the LBs or DBs to come in and finish the plays) is the same reason our LBs could not stop the run, back to D-line. Blame Polian and the Dungy philosophy for the D-line before you blame Brackett exclusively for our run D. I was just as frustrated with it as you were. It was not like Clint Session did not take himself out of several plays as well by taking bad angles.

Ray Lewis had his numbers go down after his 2000 SB winning season only for it to pick up again once Ngata was drafted and groomed for the middle. Brian Urlacher has his issues on run D as well when the D-line of the Bears had issues.

Melvin Bullitt did play well in that 2009 season when he got the most playing time, he did so in the 2008 season too. Yes, he was not elite like Bob Sanders, by no means, but he was serviceable enough as a backup safety and was a very good ST player as well. He was played closer to the box in Coyer's first season too. These numbers prove that point. Under Ron Meeks' last year, he defensed more passes in 2008 (always felt Ron Meeks coached a better secondary than Coyer, expect the Chargers' secondary to improve this year since he is secondary coach):

http://www.pro-footb.../B/BullMe99.htm

He was in slight demand after the 2010 offseason, which is when we gave him that ill-advised contract (ill-advised mainly because they did not evaluate his injury history well enough, IMO).

Blair White - my basis for knowing he was contacted by a handful of teams when he went undrafted is this:

http://statenews.com...ianapolis_colts

I will give you this - Polian drafted players at Buffalo, at Carolina, and at Indianapolis to suit the system. So, yes, they were more valuable to our system than someone else's. But it does not mean that they were useless for any other system when they were in their prime.

Right now, we are treating Grigson's signings like they are the greatest things since sliced bread. I get it, we want a reason to get excited and want ammo for that. But at the same time, I am just asking people to hold their horses because a new toy (new for the Colts) is always to going shine bright before it loses its luster like any other used one and then becomes a run-of-the-mill one. We all were super excited and stoked when Donald Brown was drafted, flashing back a few years ago :).

Believe me, i'm not blaming Brackett exclusively. There's plenty of blame to go around for our porous run defense, but Gary Brackett deserves just as much criticism as anyone else. It's his job as MLB to minimize the running yardage gained by opposing runningbacks once they get past the DL, and he simply wasn't effective at doing that. If you isolate the play of Gary Brackett, it's very clear that he is undersized & lacks the requisite strength & vision to be an effective one-on-one run defender. More often than not, he reacted late in identifying the direction at which a ballcarrier was running the ball, so that by the time he actually got to the ballcarrier, the ballcarrier was running at full steam, and Brackett, being undersized and lacking strength, allowed 5-7 more yards than he should have. When your undersized and understrenghted and you react late to plays, you are unable to utilize proper tackling technique.....leveling your shoulder, hitting the ball carrier around the middle & then wrapping up. This also happened to Gary Brackett quite often.

I'm sorry, but Gary Brackett, by any measure, is a poor run defender.

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mvbighead Walk On

mvbighead

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I'm not saying this is a bad signing, I actually like it, but everyone keeps saying he was behind Ngata in Bmore. If I'm not mistaken, Ngata is a DE in their system. McKinney has been behind this guy for the last two years.

terrence-cody-weigh-in_display_image.jpg?1295627643

My apologies for the Not Safe For Eyes picture. haha

While that kid is a fatty for sure, he was also an early selection that the Ravens had a bit riding on. He also is a powerful man. Not to mention, they have him under contract for the standard 4-5 year rookie contract, whereas any investment in McKinney on the field could've generated a big contract in his direction if they wanted to keep him.

All things considered, McKinney was their backup plan. For us, he may be just that, and he may get his chance to crack the starting lineup. We'll see.

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mvbighead Walk On

mvbighead

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I'm not saying this is a bad signing, I actually like it, but everyone keeps saying he was behind Ngata in Bmore. If I'm not mistaken, Ngata is a DE in their system. McKinney has been behind this guy for the last two years.

terrence-cody-weigh-in_display_image.jpg?1295627643

My apologies for the Not Safe For Eyes picture. haha

Also, while this guy has more flab, you can't tell me that you think Casey Hampton is skinny:

http://bearmythology.me/2009/09/19/

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Smitto Walk On

Smitto

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U seem very confident in ure post but ure a little misinformed in ure details given...Although ngata has the size of a traditional nt he and redding man'd the DE position for the ravens while Mount Cody played the nt when the ravens showed their 3-4 look.

When the ravens went 4-3 and sometimes dime in certain situations Ngata kicked inside to play the nose

...Mckinney was the main guy behind Mount Cody at the nose in the 3-4 scheme

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/9598/haloti-ngata

.... He's a NT

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Smitto Walk On

Smitto

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hes listed as a NT but plays both positions for the ravens in different sets, great player, we need to find a Ngata

That is true but he was drafted to be a NT so he still plays his natural position, if the colts got a player like him it would be pretty amazing.

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MFT5 Practice Squad

MFT5

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That is true but he was drafted to be a NT so he still plays his natural position, if the colts got a player like him it would be pretty amazing.

At times he does but ure not understanding that he is often more times than not setting the edge and funneling things back inside...and whats commonly known is if ngata isnt the most athletically gifted player on the ravens defense he's certainly 1 of them.

Ngata easily can play every position on the dline and is the reason the ravens have the flexibility to play multiple schemes without drastic personnel change...Ngata is the hybrid player that the scheme is predicated on.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/bal/formation/3-4-defense

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GrizzColt Walk On

GrizzColt

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Doesn't "serviceable" mean he can play his position sufficiently? I'll take that. People who are underwhelmed by him actually must think that he ISN'T serviceable or they really expect him to be a superstar instead. We didn't pay him superstar money, we paid him to be serviceable. No need to be depressed by the signing...it's a good move. The future superstars should come from the draft for the most part and maybe down the line, we pony up to buy a superstar FA if we need one.

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Smitto Walk On

Smitto

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At times he does but ure not understanding that he is often more times than not setting the edge and funneling things back inside...and whats commonly known is if ngata isnt the most athletically gifted player on the ravens defense he's certainly 1 of them.

Ngata easily can play every position on the dline and is the reason the ravens have the flexibility to play multiple schemes without drastic personnel change...Ngata is the hybrid player that the scheme is predicated on.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/bal/formation/3-4-defense

I can understand that but his natural position is NT that's all I'm saying. If he wasn't so athletic he'd be the starter instead of Cody

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Coltsman1788 Team Captain

Coltsman1788

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Why oh why do we count tackles on defensive linemen as if it means something?

I couldn't care less if our front 3 in the 3-4 combine for 10 total tackles this season. If they're clogging the middle, forcing runs outside, etc. etc. etc. they're doing their job. They will usually have more combined tackles than 10, but the NT specifically generally doesn't get much more than 40 a season. Their job is simply to occupy two blockers to open things up for the rest of the defense.

The key important factor here is how does a big guy affect the defensive unit as a whole. Haloti Ngata did big things from Ray Lewis. I just hope McKinney can give us half of that.

Thanks...I am aware of the role of Tackles in the 3-4 though. I mentioned the # tackles more as a slight towards Moala than to McKinney. Moala in the cover 2 scheme only had slightly more tackles than McKinney last year who played in the 3-4...that was the point I was trying to illustrate...though probably not too successfully judging from your response.

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mvbighead Walk On

mvbighead

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Thanks...I am aware of the role of Tackles in the 3-4 though. I mentioned the # tackles more as a slight towards Moala than to McKinney. Moala in the cover 2 scheme only had slightly more tackles than McKinney last year who played in the 3-4...that was the point I was trying to illustrate...though probably not too successfully judging from your response.

This is probably a better way to sum up the quality of our defensive line play:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&season=2011&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go

We were in the bottom 5 of total rushing yards allowed.

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