ballard vs grigson

[indyagent17]

18 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

ballard 4 years won 32 lost 32

grigson 5 years won 49 lost 31

ballard 4 years playoff wins 1

grigson 5 years playoff wins 3

and i didnt like grigson

This has everything to do with Andrew Luck

[gspdx]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

People nowadays are overstimulated. So in order to garner and hold on to their attention, you have to continue going big. Flashing lights, explosions, chaos. People eat up reality TV because of it. It's just yelling and screaming, but then you look at the ratings... 

 

Well I don't watch reality TV and I have cut way back on any of the flashy bangy type movies and shows.  But I know I am not their target market!

 

I was watching an NCIS Los Angeles rerun yesterday for about 15 minutes and I just had to laugh.  Way to corny.  They make them out to be like special ops or something.  NCIS is investigation.  They are detectives.  Not James Bond.  But everything has to be over the top.

 

And now I am derailing the thread so I will stop!

[Kdeming1230]

Why is this even a discussion? All the work Ballard has done building one of the most solid teams in the league is starting show. Grigson was gifted Andrew luck and that’s the only reason the colts did as well as they did all those years. His best moves were TY and Kelly but other than that, he did more damage than good for this team. In one draft Ballard managed to pick 2 first team all pros (Nelson and Leonard), sign a first team all pro as a UFA (odum) draft smith, Hines, and turay. All in one draft. Grigson wishes he could draft one first team all pro player in 10 drafts. If grigson lost luck and was asked to essentially build a team all while maintaining success after losing one of the best quarterbacks in the league, we wouldn’t be anywhere near where we are. In fact, I’m sure the colts would be on the decline for the next 5-10 years. Ballard has been a god send for this team. If Carson wentz can return to his 2019 form I’m sure this is the year. 1 decent draft and a Carson went revival and the colts are going to be right there competing for a SB title.

[lennymoore24]

I liken that comparison to:

Trent Dilfer Super Bowl Wins: 1

Andrew Luck Super Bowl Wins: 0

 

[GoColts8818]

4 hours ago, Kdeming1230 said:

Why is this even a discussion? All the work Ballard has done building one of the most solid teams in the league is starting show. Grigson was gifted Andrew luck and that’s the only reason the colts did as well as they did all those years. His best moves were TY and Kelly but other than that, he did more damage than good for this team. In one draft Ballard managed to pick 2 first team all pros (Nelson and Leonard), sign a first team all pro as a UFA (odum) draft smith, Hines, and turay. All in one draft. Grigson wishes he could draft one first team all pro player in 10 drafts. If grigson lost luck and was asked to essentially build a team all while maintaining success after losing one of the best quarterbacks in the league, we wouldn’t be anywhere near where we are. In fact, I’m sure the colts would be on the decline for the next 5-10 years. Ballard has been a god send for this team. If Carson wentz can return to his 2019 form I’m sure this is the year. 1 decent draft and a Carson went revival and the colts are going to be right there competing for a SB title.

Because trolls gotta troll.

[MPStack]

1 hour ago, lennymoore24 said:

I liken that comparison to:

Trent Dilfer Super Bowl Wins: 1

Andrew Luck Super Bowl Wins: 0

 

Ballard only had Luck for one season. 

So, in regards to DIlfer and winning a SB, Ballard hasn’t fielded a team strong enough to win a SB with a QB like Dilfer, which is rare in itself. 


 

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Ballard only had Luck for one season. 

So, in regards to DIlfer and winning a SB, Ballard hasn’t fielded a team strong enough to win a SB with a QB like Dilfer, which is rare in itself. 


 

I think he was using that as an example of how ridiculous this thread was not because he means it.

[shasta519]

19 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think he was using that as an example of how ridiculous this thread was not because he means it.

Yes. This is an intentional (and irrelevant) ridiculous comparison in place of any type of actual discussion. My point exactly on why this is a pointless conversation.

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

I liken that comparison to:

Trent Dilfer Super Bowl Wins: 1

Andrew Luck Super Bowl Wins: 0

 

BOOM!!    Well played sir!!

 

(Who knew Trent Dilfer was better than Andrew Luck?!?)   

 

[Nadine]

[Myles]

21 hours ago, colts8718 said:

I honestly was in shock they traded for him one of the worst trades in Colt history. When Grigson came in he signed so many bad free agents

I didn't think it that bad.   In hindsight it is.  

Colts gave up the 22nd pick in the draft for the previous years #3 pick in the draft.

In his rookie year, Richardson had good numbers - 950 yards rushing, 11 TD's, 51 receptions and 1 TD.  That was in 15 games with Weeden as the QB.  I thought with Luck as the QB his game would step up.   

 

Was it a mistake - YES.   Was it the worst trade in Colts history - Not even close.

 

Let me remind you of this bad trade:

 

In search of a franchise QB, the Colts swung a deal with Atlanta for the top pick in the 1990 NFL Draft and used the pick on George, a homegrown product from Warren Central. The cost was steep.

The Falcons received OT Chris Hinton, WR Andre Rison, a 1991 first round pick and a fifth round pick in 1990. A six-time Pro Bowler for the Colts, Hinton started 80 more games, including a Pro Bowl season in 1991 and an All-Pro nod in 1993.

 

Rison started for the Colts as a rookie and caught 52 passes in 1989. With the Falcons, Rison exploded, eclipsing 1,000 receiving yards in four of his five seasons in Atlanta. He finished his Falcons career with 5,633 yards and 56 touchdowns before bouncing around with five other teams in his final six seasons.

The 1991 first round pick turned into WR Mike Pritchard, who spent nine solid, but unspectacular seasons in the NFL, finishing with 5,187 receiving yards.

As for George, he spent four uninspiring seasons with the Colts with a 14-35 record as a starter, more interceptions than touchdowns (46 to 41) and was traded in 1994 to Atlanta.

[colts8718]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I didn't think it that bad.   In hindsight it is.  

Colts gave up the 22nd pick in the draft for the previous years #3 pick in the draft.

In his rookie year, Richardson had good numbers - 950 yards rushing, 11 TD's, 51 receptions and 1 TD.  That was in 15 games with Weeden as the QB.  I thought with Luck as the QB his game would step up.   

 

Was it a mistake - YES.   Was it the worst trade in Colts history - Not even close.

 

Let me remind you of this bad trade:

 

In search of a franchise QB, the Colts swung a deal with Atlanta for the top pick in the 1990 NFL Draft and used the pick on George, a homegrown product from Warren Central. The cost was steep.

The Falcons received OT Chris Hinton, WR Andre Rison, a 1991 first round pick and a fifth round pick in 1990. A six-time Pro Bowler for the Colts, Hinton started 80 more games, including a Pro Bowl season in 1991 and an All-Pro nod in 1993.

 

Rison started for the Colts as a rookie and caught 52 passes in 1989. With the Falcons, Rison exploded, eclipsing 1,000 receiving yards in four of his five seasons in Atlanta. He finished his Falcons career with 5,633 yards and 56 touchdowns before bouncing around with five other teams in his final six seasons.

The 1991 first round pick turned into WR Mike Pritchard, who spent nine solid, but unspectacular seasons in the NFL, finishing with 5,187 receiving yards.

As for George, he spent four uninspiring seasons with the Colts with a 14-35 record as a starter, more interceptions than touchdowns (46 to 41) and was traded in 1994 to Atlanta.

Forgot about that one do you remember the Elway trade I no he did not want to come to the Colts at that time they where in Baltimore. Irsay's father was in charge then 

[Myles]

27 minutes ago, colts8718 said:

Forgot about that one do you remember the Elway trade I no he did not want to come to the Colts at that time they where in Baltimore. Irsay's father was in charge then 

They traded up from 7 to 5 to select Trev Alberts.

 

They traded 2 first round picks, which ended up being number 15 in 1989 and #3 in 1990, to get Fredd Young who played just three seasons with Indianapolis before retiring because of an arthritic hip. He finished his Colts career with two sacks in the blue and white.

[Mitch Connors]

My big gripe with Ballard has been not addressing long-term QB. 

 

I think last year was wasted because, at best, it was a 1-2 year solve and we knew that going in. I hear all the time about a rookie QB wasting prime years of an established team which is essentially what Rivers did. 

 

This is also why I'm very high on the Wentz move. You have to make a move for a long-term QB at some point and, imo, the sooner the better. I'm not particularly affected if this move fails (at least we're trying now). I regularly hear that missing on a QB will set your franchise back several years. You know what else will set your franchise back? Not having a QB.

 

My gripes with Ballard are over now.

[Myles]

36 minutes ago, colts8718 said:

Forgot about that one do you remember the Elway trade I no he did not want to come to the Colts at that time they where in Baltimore. Irsay's father was in charge then 

But we got Mark Hermann.   Colts won that trade.  Ha ha.

maybe if they would have used the pick they got from Denver better.   They took Ron Solt.  

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

My big gripe with Ballard has been not addressing long-term QB. 

 

 

Luck retired right before the 2019 season.   That only gave Ballard 1 offseason to address the QB situation.  He knew the team was good and didn't want to waste a year so he brought in Rivers.   Rivers had a good year despite no training camp or preseason with the receivers.  Went 11-5.   68% completions, 24TD's, 11 INT's.  Lost by 3 in the playoffs.  I was pretty happy with the season.  Now, a year and a half later he has the future QB on the team.   I'm glad he didn't reach too much.  I suppose he could have drafted Jalen Hurts but he took Pittman and Taylor instead and grabbed Eason in the 4th round.  I think he handled this well.

[Sumo63]

On 3/2/2021 at 11:47 AM, Smonroe said:

I'm pretty sure Grigson could take Ballard if it were an MMA style match.

 

(That's what this thread is about, right?  I didn't bother to read any of the posts)

Nah, Griggs would be out of breath and sweating burger grease by the two minute mark.  Ballard looks scrappy.

[ojsglove]

Whos this Grigson you speak of?

[2006Coltsbestever]

29 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

Whos this Grigson you speak of?

lol, I know. Grigson will always be one of the names here that will go down in Colts history as just being a huge disappointment. After his 1st year as GM, he was flat out bad. He ruined Luck's career IMO and was handed the keys to a Ferrari in Luck to start his GM career. He and QB's like Art Schlichter, Mike Pagel, Jeff George, Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, and Scott Tolzien/players like Trent Richardson and Bjoern Werner were an embarrassment to this organization - just to name some disasters for fun. I am so happy that Ballard is running this team to the point of the thread.

 

Not to bring up JB but I will just because in a Colts uniform he was better than all those stinkers I named above at QB. I even thought Pagano was an average coach, wasn't good but not bad - 2 guys that get ripped on here a lot.

[shasta519]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

lol, I know. Grigson will always be one of the names here that will go down in Colts history as just being a huge disappointment. After his 1st year as GM, he was flat out bad. He ruined Luck's career IMO and was handed the keys to a Ferrari in Luck to start his GM career. He and QB's like Art Schlichter, Mike Pagel, Jeff George, Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, and Scott Tolzien/players like Trent Richardson and Bjoern Werner were an embarrassment to this organization - just to name some disasters for fun. I am so happy that Ballard is running this team to the point of the thread.

 

Not to bring up JB but I will just because in a Colts uniform he was better than all those stinkers I named above at QB. I even thought Pagano was an average coach, wasn't good but not bad - 2 guys that get ripped on here a lot.

JB is not my favorite QB. But even I would never compare him to the likes of the guys on that list. He is much more in the Hasselback group. 
 

But I also disagree with putting Grigs on that list as well. He wasn’t a disaster or an embarrassment...he was just a disappointment in the end. A guy who couldn’t evaluate talent nearly as well as he did early in his career. And he was an unlikeable guy (which has always made me wonder how he sold Irsay on giving him the job). 
 

But plenty of GMs fail to get there with a star QB...especially early in that QB’s career. Only one team gets to win the SB each year. 
 

I mean...just look at Polian. He got there eventually...but he was gifted PFM...and didn’t win a playoff game until the 6th season. Grigs had won 3 by his 3rd season...and had just as many playoff appearances (3) as Polian over their first 5 seasons. Polian is a HOFer...but my point is that it’s not easy even when you get a great QB.

 

And as I have said before...Luck was great and my favorite player of all time...but he wasn’t quite Mahomes or Rodgers good...they are true Ferraris. He made mistakes and also didn’t exactly light it it up in January either. I think his prime would have been something to behold and maybe he would have taken his game to a new level...but injuries unfortunately derailed that (which I think many parties are to blame for...not just Grigs).

 

The guys on that list brought nothing to this org...Grigs at least managed to oversee a winning roster for years. A 49-31 record (.612 winning %) with a 3-3 playoff record, in 5 years, is far from a disaster. If you want to see what a true disaster looks like...it’s what has happened in HOU...where their FO has wasted a QB who (IMO) might be even better than Luck.
 

So far, Ballard has been superior in just about every facet. But the results are still the results. We can discount 2017...but without it the Colts are still just 28-20 (a .583 winning %) and 1-2 in the playoffs so far. Yes, he has only had Luck for one of those seasons...but that’s just another way of saying he needed Luck to win more games (to win more playoff games). And that’s the argument I always hear to vilify Grigs...that he only won because of Luck. Seems like a double standard...and not the only one.

 

I think most Colts fans have become huge fans of the process...and that’s great. It’s might be my favorite part of sports. But there are those that are still results-oriented...and I can understand why some might be asking what does it all without the results? This season will be huge to answering that question. 

[r a y s k i]

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, shasta519 said:

JB is not my favorite QB. But even I would never compare him to the likes of the guys on that list. He is much more in the Hasselback group. 
 

But I also disagree with putting Grigs on that list as well. He wasn’t a disaster or an embarrassment...he was just a disappointment in the end. A guy who couldn’t evaluate talent nearly as well as he did early in his career. And he was an unlikeable guy (which has always made me wonder how he sold Irsay on giving him the job). 
 

But plenty of GMs fail to get there with a star QB...especially early in that QB’s career. Only one team gets to win the SB each year. 
 

I mean...just look at Polian. He got there eventually...but he was gifted PFM...and didn’t win a playoff game until the 6th season. Grigs had won 3 by his 3rd season...and had just as many playoff appearances (3) as Polian over their first 5 seasons. Polian is a HOFer...but my point is that it’s not easy even when you get a great QB.

 

And as I have said before...Luck was great and my favorite player of all time...but he wasn’t quite Mahomes or Rodgers good...they are true Ferraris. He made mistakes and also didn’t exactly light it it up in January either. I think his prime would have been something to behold and maybe he would have taken his game to a new level...but injuries unfortunately derailed that (which I think many parties are to blame for...not just Grigs).

 

The guys on that list brought nothing to this org...Grigs at least managed to oversee a winning roster for years. A 49-31 record (.612 winning %) with a 3-3 playoff record, in 5 years, is far from a disaster. If you want to see what a true disaster looks like...it’s what has happened in HOU...where their FO has wasted a QB who (IMO) might be even better than Luck.
 

So far, Ballard has been superior in just about every facet. But the results are still the results. We can discount 2017...but without it the Colts are still just 28-20 (a .583 winning %) and 1-2 in the playoffs so far. Yes, he has only had Luck for one of those seasons...but that’s just another way of saying he needed Luck to win more games (to win more playoff games). And that’s the argument I always hear to vilify Grigs...that he only won because of Luck. Seems like a double standard...and not the only one.

 

I think most Colts fans have become huge fans of the process...and that’s great. It’s might be my favorite part of sports. But there are those that are still results-oriented...and I can understand why some might be asking what does it all without the results? This season will be huge to answering that question. 

Fair post and I thought Grigs was outstanding in his 1st season as GM. Drafting TY Hilton, making sure Wayne got re-signed, and of course drafting Luck but Luck was a no brainer. After season 1 it slowly went down hill for Grigs. Luck wasn't as great as Mahomes or Rodgers is I do agree but I would say he is better than Watson if you compare those 2 at their best. Houston is a train wreck I agree which hasn't helped Watson.

 

Regarding Ballard, eventhough he was the GM in 2017 (his 1st season) I still say and have said it all along that I really don't think it's fair to count the 2017 season against his win/loss record. Luck missed the entire season in 2017, JB was basically a starting rookie, and Ballard didn't have his coach he wanted. Everything that Ballard has done since the 2018 season to now is what I go by. Going by that his win/loss record he is 28-20 with a playoff win = good IMO, you say just 28-20 but that is a lot better than average. Average would be 24-24. He is responsible for drafting Nelson, Leonard, Smith, and JTaylor, trading for Buckner and signing Rivers which were all outstanding moves IMO. People can bag on Rivers all they want but he went 11-5 and put up good numbers. When Ballard had Luck, we even won a playoff game and beat Watson in Houston.

[ojsglove]

16 hours ago, shasta519 said:

JB is not my favorite QB. But even I would never compare him to the likes of the guys on that list. He is much more in the Hasselback group. 
 

But I also disagree with putting Grigs on that list as well. He wasn’t a disaster or an embarrassment...he was just a disappointment in the end. A guy who couldn’t evaluate talent nearly as well as he did early in his career. And he was an unlikeable guy (which has always made me wonder how he sold Irsay on giving him the job). 
 

But plenty of GMs fail to get there with a star QB...especially early in that QB’s career. Only one team gets to win the SB each year. 
 

I mean...just look at Polian. He got there eventually...but he was gifted PFM...and didn’t win a playoff game until the 6th season. Grigs had won 3 by his 3rd season...and had just as many playoff appearances (3) as Polian over their first 5 seasons. Polian is a HOFer...but my point is that it’s not easy even when you get a great QB.

 

And as I have said before...Luck was great and my favorite player of all time...but he wasn’t quite Mahomes or Rodgers good...they are true Ferraris. He made mistakes and also didn’t exactly light it it up in January either. I think his prime would have been something to behold and maybe he would have taken his game to a new level...but injuries unfortunately derailed that (which I think many parties are to blame for...not just Grigs).

 

The guys on that list brought nothing to this org...Grigs at least managed to oversee a winning roster for years. A 49-31 record (.612 winning %) with a 3-3 playoff record, in 5 years, is far from a disaster. If you want to see what a true disaster looks like...it’s what has happened in HOU...where their FO has wasted a QB who (IMO) might be even better than Luck.
 

So far, Ballard has been superior in just about every facet. But the results are still the results. We can discount 2017...but without it the Colts are still just 28-20 (a .583 winning %) and 1-2 in the playoffs so far. Yes, he has only had Luck for one of those seasons...but that’s just another way of saying he needed Luck to win more games (to win more playoff games). And that’s the argument I always hear to vilify Grigs...that he only won because of Luck. Seems like a double standard...and not the only one.

 

I think most Colts fans have become huge fans of the process...and that’s great. It’s might be my favorite part of sports. But there are those that are still results-oriented...and I can understand why some might be asking what does it all without the results? This season will be huge to answering that question. 

Dating the owners daughter might afford you preferential treatment.

[groundnpound]

That TRICH trade was absolutely brutal, not sure who thought it was a good move. I think it was actually the Cleveland asst GM that bent Grigson over for that one. No hindsight necessary with a boneheaded move like that. Ballard traded a first for a sloth.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 3/1/2021 at 7:27 PM, DEFENSE said:

ballard 4 years won 32 lost 32

grigson 5 years won 49 lost 31

ballard 4 years playoff wins 1

grigson 5 years playoff wins 3

and i didnt like grigson

 

Grigson  sucked & he had Luck  & destroyed his career . Ballard will accomplish what Grigson could not by building the Colts into a well rounded younger powerhouse on both sides of the ball . But most importantly these Colts will benefit for a decade with Wentz IMO rising from the ashes with confidence playing with new coaches & teammates who believe in him ;

 

Those numbers don't mean squat. 

[Happy2BeHere]

I seem to recall the most common theme amongst this forum in regards to grigson was that he was rather masterful at contract structuring with the players in terms of signing free agents with the ability to cut them without significant impact on the cap. Many here expressed how amazing he was at managing the salary cap and free space.

 

but otherwise, he was an overall disappointment 

[GoColts8818]

On 3/3/2021 at 12:49 PM, Mitch Connors said:

My big gripe with Ballard has been not addressing long-term QB. 

 

I think last year was wasted because, at best, it was a 1-2 year solve and we knew that going in. I hear all the time about a rookie QB wasting prime years of an established team which is essentially what Rivers did. 

 

This is also why I'm very high on the Wentz move. You have to make a move for a long-term QB at some point and, imo, the sooner the better. I'm not particularly affected if this move fails (at least we're trying now). I regularly hear that missing on a QB will set your franchise back several years. You know what else will set your franchise back? Not having a QB.

 

My gripes with Ballard are over now.

Up until this past off-season he thought he had Andrew Luck as his QB.  There was no need to address the QB position long term.  He put a pretty good band aide on it last year and then addressed it this off-season.  You make it sound like he’s gone his whole tenure not addressing the QB spot.  That’s just not true.  

[crazycolt1]

On 3/3/2021 at 12:49 PM, Mitch Connors said:

My big gripe with Ballard has been not addressing long-term QB. 

 

I think last year was wasted because, at best, it was a 1-2 year solve and we knew that going in. I hear all the time about a rookie QB wasting prime years of an established team which is essentially what Rivers did. 

 

This is also why I'm very high on the Wentz move. You have to make a move for a long-term QB at some point and, imo, the sooner the better. I'm not particularly affected if this move fails (at least we're trying now). I regularly hear that missing on a QB will set your franchise back several years. You know what else will set your franchise back? Not having a QB.

 

My gripes with Ballard are over now.

[Thebrashandthebold]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:52 PM, csmopar said:

Grigson had 5 years with a supposed once in a generation QB, Ballard has had 1...

Yep if we’d had Ballard from the start, 3 Super Bowls with Luck

Nobody was winning a Super Bowl with Luck. He wasn't that kind of talent.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Nobody was winning a Super Bowl with Luck. He wasn't that kind of talent.

In my nine years here,  this might be one of the most unintentionally funny comments anyone has ever said.  
 

Congratulations!      

[Thebrashandthebold]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:40 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Fair post and I thought Grigs was outstanding in his 1st season as GM. Drafting TY Hilton, making sure Wayne got re-signed, and of course drafting Luck but Luck was a no brainer. After season 1 it slowly went down hill for Grigs. Luck wasn't as great as Mahomes or Rodgers is I do agree but I would say he is better than Watson if you compare those 2 at their best. Houston is a train wreck I agree which hasn't helped Watson.

 

Regarding Ballard, eventhough he was the GM in 2017 (his 1st season) I still say and have said it all along that I really don't think it's fair to count the 2017 season against his win/loss record. Luck missed the entire season in 2017, JB was basically a starting rookie, and Ballard didn't have his coach he wanted. Everything that Ballard has done since the 2018 season to now is what I go by. Going by that his win/loss record he is 28-20 with a playoff win = good IMO, you say just 28-20 but that is a lot better than average. Average would be 24-24. He is responsible for drafting Nelson, Leonard, Smith, and JTaylor, trading for Buckner and signing Rivers which were all outstanding moves IMO. People can bag on Rivers all they want but he went 11-5 and put up good numbers. When Ballard had Luck, we even won a playoff game and beat Watson in Houston.

Luck couldn't carry Watson's jock or Wilson's for that matter or Stafford's and many more. He was never in range of Big Ben, Rodgers and many more. He just didn't have "it". He tried to apply a linebacker's mentality to QB and it damned near got him killed. I call that low football IQ. Brilliant man but not about football.

 

[Thebrashandthebold]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

In my nine years here,  this might be one of the most unintentionally funny comments anyone has ever said.  
 

Congratulations!      

I believe it is accurate. Any MVPs that I missed? One trip to the ECF where we got wiped out. You aren't going to the SB with that.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

Luck couldn't carry Watson's jock or Wilson's for that matter or Stafford's and many more. He was never in range of Big Ben, Rodgers and many more. He just didn't have "it". He tried to apply a linebacker's mentality to QB and it damned near got him killed. I call that low football IQ. Brilliant man but not about football.

 

Luck was better than Watson, sorry but true. By the way I think Watson is very good/borderline great and I brag about him all the time but I would take 2012-2014/2018 Luck over Watson anyday. Watson is a top 5 QB as of now in the league but Luck would be too had he not retired.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I believe it is accurate. Any MVPs that I missed? One trip to the ECF where we got wiped out. You aren't going to the SB with that.

 

I know you believe it is accurate.   You wouldn’t have posted it otherwise.   I’d explain the other point of view but someone would come along accusing me of trying to get everyone to think as I do.   Nothing could be further from the truth, a difference of opinion is what makes the world go around. 
 

I’d simply say this...  our difference of opinion is the gap of the Grand Canyon.    It’s not a small difference, it’s a gigantic difference.   So I’m fine with you believing what you do.  There are others here who share the same opinion as you, so you’re not alone. 
 

So keep being Brash and Bold.  You do you.

 

Good luck!     

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Luck was better than Watson, sorry but true. By the way I think Watson is very good/borderline great and I brag about him all the time but I would take 2012-2014/2018 Luck over Watson anyday. Watson is a top 5 QB as of now in the league but Luck would be too had he not retired.

Nah. In Watson's 4 years, he had 3 years of better QBR ratings than Luck ever had. Same with Passer Rating. Watson has a higher TD% and lower INT%. Better AVG and ANY/A too. And Watson's rushing TD avg/game is almost twice that of Luck's. 

 

Luck was good. Watson was just easily better.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Nah. In Watson's 4 years, he had 3 years of better QBR ratings than Luck ever had. Same with Passer Rating. Watson has a higher TD% and lower INT%. Better AVG and ANY/A too. And Watson's rushing TD avg/game is almost twice that of Luck's. 

 

Luck was good. Watson was just easily better.

Watson has never came close to throwing 40 TD's in a season, he had 33 this past season which was his best by far. Luck had 40 in 2014 and 39 in 2018. Not that the TD stat is everything but just pointing that out. Also Luck went into Houston during the 2018 playoffs when Watson had a fully loaded team and Luck spanked them on his hometurf. Luck was better so we will have to agree to disagree 

[2006Coltsbestever]

FWIW, I am not a fan of passer rating or QBR rating. Both are wishy washy. If we went by that than RG3 was better in 2012 than any year Luck had lol, that was far from the case and we all know it. I go by TD's thrown because it is about points, clutch factor, and the ability to find a way to win. Luck never had a season where any of his teams were below .500 when he played a full season (basically a full season, he played 15 games in 2016). His worse record was 8-7 in 2016 where he played 15 games. As much I love Watson his team just went 4-12, Luck would never go 4-12 in a million years playing all 16 games.

[Thebrashandthebold]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

FWIW, I am not a fan of passer rating or QBR rating. Both are wishy washy. If we went by that than RG3 was better in 2012 than any year Luck had lol, that was far from the case and we all know it. I go by TD's thrown because it is about points, clutch factor, and the ability to find a way to win. Luck never had a season where any of his teams were below .500 when he played a full season (basically a full season, he played 15 games in 2016). His worse record was 8-7 in 2016 where he played 15 games. As much I love Watson his team just went 4-12, Luck would never go 4-12 in a million years playing all 16 games.

TDs thrown can also be an indication of a very poor running game. That is the only way they could score. Luck would not have won any more games than Watson did with the Texans after O'Brian ran all of their talent out of town.

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Watson has never came close to throwing 40 TD's in a season, he had 33 this past season which was his best by far. Luck had 40 in 2014 and 39 in 2018. Not that the TD stat is everything but just pointing that out. Also Luck went into Houston during the 2018 playoffs when Watson had a fully loaded team and Luck spanked them on his hometurf. Luck was better so we will have to agree to disagree 

You can give me a sad face all you want but everything I said is fact.

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

FWIW, I am not a fan of passer rating or QBR rating. Both are wishy washy. If we went by that than RG3 was better in 2012 than any year Luck had lol, that was far from the case and we all know it. I go by TD's thrown because it is about points, clutch factor, and the ability to find a way to win. Luck never had a season where any of his teams were below .500 when he played a full season (basically a full season, he played 15 games in 2016). His worse record was 8-7 in 2016 where he played 15 games. As much I love Watson his team just went 4-12, Luck would never go 4-12 in a million years playing all 16 games.

To follow this up, I have seen many QB's with good passer ratings that don't cut the mustard when it comes to winning.