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Mike tanenbaum says colts have worst qb in the division.


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1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

Acknowledging his track record is "fair grounds" as I mentioned. But logically, it's possible that he can be wrong about everything in life, but still be right about this one topic. So, it makes more sense to address the argument, IMO. And, as I've mentioned, we really can't do anything about it. It's up to the Colts and Wentz to prove him wrong.

 

Also, I don't think his opinion is sensational. Tannehill and Watson are playing well in the span of time that Wentz hasn't been. And we've seen with Luck that a highly touted college QB can become one of the better QBs in the division within the first year.

 

I agree that there's a lot of ad hominem in saying 'this guy was a bad GM, who cares what he thinks,' but that doesn't mean his opinion shouldn't be considered in light of his track record.

 

And the reason I call his opinion sensational is because a) calling Wentz worse than Lawrence is overstated, at the least, since Lawrence has not been drafted by the Jaguars, nor has he played in the NFL; and b) the basis for calling Wentz 'bad' in the first place is one bad year being used to cancel out his previous good play in the years prior. 

 

So we can assume that Lawrence will be drafted by the Jags (not unreasonable), and we can assume that Lawrence will be good (kind of presumptuous, but not totally unreasonable), but we can't assume that Carson Wentz can still play at a high level? In 2019, Wentz threw for 4,000 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, with a subpar group of WRs and a deteriorating OL. This idea about how bad he is is based on freezing him in time, and using the absolute worst season of his career to do so.

 

End of the day, Wentz's status in the division is mostly relative, and ultimately not relevant. What matters is how well he plays in 2021. Calling him the worst QB in the division is meant to undermine him, and I find it very easy to dismiss that kind of statement on its merits. Doesn't help that the person making the statement has little credibility as a talent evaluator.

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This coming from one if the worst GMs in the league. There's a reason he's on ESPN and not a GM.

As of today, what Tannenba said may be true.   But it doesn’t matter.   We’re not playing games today.   We’re playing games in 6 and a half months.  A lot can and will change between now and then. 

Mike knows QBs. He was the former GM of the Jets....look at all the great QBs they have had.

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree that there's a lot of ad hominem in saying 'this guy was a bad GM, who cares what he thinks,' but that doesn't mean his opinion shouldn't be considered in light of his track record.

 

And the reason I call his opinion sensational is because a) calling Wentz worse than Lawrence is overstated, at the least, since Lawrence has not been drafted by the Jaguars, nor has he played in the NFL; and b) the basis for calling Wentz 'bad' in the first place is one bad year being used to cancel out his previous good play in the years prior. 

 

So we can assume that Lawrence will be drafted by the Jags (not unreasonable), and we can assume that Lawrence will be good (kind of presumptuous, but not totally unreasonable), but we can't assume that Carson Wentz can still play at a high level? In 2019, Wentz threw for 4,000 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, with a subpar group of WRs and a deteriorating OL. This idea about how bad he is is based on freezing him in time, and using the absolute worst season of his career to do so.

 

End of the day, Wentz's status in the division is mostly relative, and ultimately not relevant. What matters is how well he plays in 2021. Calling him the worst QB in the division is meant to undermine him, and I find it very easy to dismiss that kind of statement on its merits. Doesn't help that the person making the statement has little credibility as a talent evaluator.

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There's a reason he's a FORMER GM.  T. Lawrence hasn't taken his first practice snap in an NFL uniform for an NFL team, Tannehill is a QB who was given an opportunity to re-create himself and career (and has done a very good job of it) and D. Watson is demanding a trade out of this division.  To throw mud at Wentz and the Colts shows a desire to have himself heard and seen rather than providing an opinion of any credible basis.  Wentz, like Tannehill, has NFL talent and now he also has an incredible line, very good running game and solid defense to help him live up to his potential.

 

What the FORMER NFL executive says means very little.  If he was good at what he did, he'd have a job like C. Ballard.  Just my opinion.

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The talent level of a QB doesn't always relate to wins. 

Watson on the Texans got them 4 wins this last season. 

Lawrence on a 1 win Jags team may get them 4-5 wins next season? 

Wentz on the Colts should get them 11-12 wins next season. 

 

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17 minutes ago, joecolts said:

There's a reason he's a FORMER GM.  T. Lawrence hasn't taken his first practice snap in an NFL uniform for an NFL team, Tannehill is a QB who was given an opportunity to re-create himself and career (and has done a very good job of it) and D. Watson is demanding a trade out of this division.  To throw mud at Wentz and the Colts shows a desire to have himself heard and seen rather than providing an opinion of any credible basis.  Wentz, like Tannehill, has NFL talent and now he also has an incredible line, very good running game and solid defense to help him live up to his potential.

 

What the FORMER NFL executive says means very little.  If he was good at what he did, he'd have a job like C. Ballard.  Just my opinion.

 

Just a few years ago Wentz was being talked about as a legit MVP candidate when Reich was his OC.  

 

We don't know what TL will bring to the NFL and he's on a team which had the number 1 overall draft pick for a reason, so my guess is he'll struggle some.

 

Watson likely won't be in the AFC South by the time the season starts.

 

Tannehill is a bit more than a game managing QB, but relies heavily on his running game and for the most part just needs to play mistake free football (which he is pretty good at).  I think Tannehill is somewhat underrated, TBH.

 

If Reich can get Wentz back in the right place mentally and get his mechanics fixed... we should have a good enough OL, a very solid run game, and if our WRs stay healthy we're good there, too.  Wentz has potential to return to near MVP form, IMO.  We'll just have to see when the season gets rolling.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree that there's a lot of ad hominem in saying 'this guy was a bad GM, who cares what he thinks,' but that doesn't mean his opinion shouldn't be considered in light of his track record.

 

And the reason I call his opinion sensational is because a) calling Wentz worse than Lawrence is overstated, at the least, since Lawrence has not been drafted by the Jaguars, nor has he played in the NFL; and b) the basis for calling Wentz 'bad' in the first place is one bad year being used to cancel out his previous good play in the years prior. 

 

So we can assume that Lawrence will be drafted by the Jags (not unreasonable), and we can assume that Lawrence will be good (kind of presumptuous, but not totally unreasonable), but we can't assume that Carson Wentz can still play at a high level? In 2019, Wentz threw for 4,000 yards, 27 TDs, 7 INTs, with a subpar group of WRs and a deteriorating OL. This idea about how bad he is is based on freezing him in time, and using the absolute worst season of his career to do so.

 

End of the day, Wentz's status in the division is mostly relative, and ultimately not relevant. What matters is how well he plays in 2021. Calling him the worst QB in the division is meant to undermine him, and I find it very easy to dismiss that kind of statement on its merits. Doesn't help that the person making the statement has little credibility as a talent evaluator.

I agree that you should consider his track record when evaluating his opinion. My argument wasn't really that you shouldn't, it was more that you should consider the merits of his argument first and foremost, over his track record. But mostly that ad hominem does not make for a good counter argument.

 

Here are his own words:

 

“In my opinion, they have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. Ryan Tannehill has led Tennessee to the number one offense since he’s been there. I’m assuming Deshaun Watson will still be a Texan, and I know there’s a lot there, and Trevor Lawrence is going to be better quarterback than Carson Wentz.”

 

Based on this comment, you can decide if it's sensational (I don't think they are; however, it's entirely subjective).  

 

Also, I can make some arguments against his position, such as:

 

1. Clearly, we do not know how well Lawrence will play with the Jaguars, so expecting him to be better than Wentz is questionable, especially knowing how well Wentz has been able to play in the past under Reich.

 

2. If Tannehill can be a successful reclamation project, why cant Wentz? We know that Wentz has shown to be a very talented QB, so it's not out of the question that he can regain that level of play, especially by rejoining coach Reich, and playing behind a good O-line.

 

My point with my A or B post was mainly to point out that it's much better to discuss the topic than revert to ad hominem. 

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1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

I agree that you should consider his track record when evaluating his opinion. My argument wasn't really that you shouldn't, it was more that you should consider the merits of his argument first and foremost, over his track record. But mostly that ad hominem does not make for a good counter argument.

 

Here are his own words:

 

“In my opinion, they have the fourth-best quarterback in the division. Ryan Tannehill has led Tennessee to the number one offense since he’s been there. I’m assuming Deshaun Watson will still be a Texan, and I know there’s a lot there, and Trevor Lawrence is going to be better quarterback than Carson Wentz.”

 

Based on this comment, you can decide if it's sensational (I don't think they are; however, it's entirely subjective).  

 

Also, I can make some arguments against his position, such as:

 

1. Clearly, we do not know how well Lawrence will play with the Jaguars, so expecting him to be better than Wentz is questionable, especially knowing how well Wentz has been able to play in the past under Reich.

 

2. If Tannehill can be a successful reclamation project, why cant Wentz? We know that Wentz has shown to be a very talented QB, so it's not out of the question that he can regain that level of play, especially by rejoining coach Reich, and playing behind a good O-line.

 

My point with my A or B post was mainly to point out that it's much better to discuss the topic than revert to ad hominem. 

 

Fair enough, and I agree. My response to that post was mostly in jest.

 

But I don't take Tannenbaum seriously, in general. He has a lot of hot takes -- which is why I say he's being sensational, because that's how a lot of his comments come across to me -- and the main reason anyone ever asks/publishes his opinion is because he used to be an NFL talent evaluator, and he wasn't good at it. It's like asking a bad mechanic to figure out what's wrong with your car.

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2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Mike said watson, tannehill,  and Lawrence  are all better than Wentz and we gave up too much to get him. He's  a former  nfl gm and said it on espn.

Titans have a great D and they have Derrick Henry what Trent was suppose to be for us but different topic.  Tannehill while he plays better now I wouldn’t say he is elite I put him a little above average a very very little.  And Trevor hasn’t played a down in NFL so yeah What’s the bleep is going on here worst QB in the Division?

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2 hours ago, Stephen said:

Mike said watson, tannehill,  and Lawrence  are all better than Wentz and we gave up too much to get him. He's  a former  nfl gm and said it on espn.

wasn't he one of a long list of failed Jets gm's?

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Tanebaum I believe use to key word use to a very very long time ago was the GM for the Jets so yeah see what’s he

done there and the way he evaluates and scouts players???  So yeah time to move on Tanebaum lol

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Tanebaum was a GM for the Jets.  All he did was bring in a very old Farve that even though old still helped him keep his job longer then he should have.  What butt fumble Sanchez took over and it all went down hill.  Only player that was worth anything on the Jets during his tenure as GM I believe was Darrell the island Revis.  The rest maybe other defend players but yeah that’s all I remember 

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I disagree about Tannehill.  He's isn't nor hasn't or will be better than Wentz. 

 

There's a good chance Watson is traded out of division.  And a chance Tua replaces him and Tua will never be as good as Wentz.  

 

Lawrence and if Texans get Fields or Wilson could definitely be a problem for us but I doubt as rookies in 2021 they will be better than Wentz. 

 

So actually Wentz will probably be best QB in division in '21. :D

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3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Mike said watson, tannehill,  and Lawrence  are all better than Wentz and we gave up too much to get him. He's  a former  nfl gm and said it on espn.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Thinking Tannehill is better that what I believe Wentz can get back to with Reich is laughable to me. You simply have to throw out Carson's 2020 season. No QB would've been successful in that horrible culture they had. Even a 2019 version of Wentz is better than Tannehill. Tannehill disappears in games when Henry is slowed by defenses. 

 

Also I can't put a rookie above him either until they prove otherwise. 

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54 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Wasn’t the most memorable thing from that guys career being in charge of the Butt Fumble?  

In charge?    Of the Butt Fumble?   Huh?!?

 

You're blaming the Butt Fumble on the GM?  Really?   Seriously?

 

Well there’s a first..... 

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You should take a listen to Mike Silver, another former GM, talk about Ballard and the trade today on NFL network.  He definitely sounds jealous of all the attention Ballard has been receiving since his arrival as our GM.  The trade really got under his skin.  Quite funny.   

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27 minutes ago, IanColts22 said:

Titans have a great D and they have Derrick Henry what Trent was suppose to be for us but different topic.  Tannehill while he plays better now I wouldn’t say he is elite I put him a little above average a very very little.  And Trevor hasn’t played a down in NFL so yeah What’s the bleep is going on here worst QB in the Division?

 

I'm sorry did you just say the Titans have a great defense? That's laughable. 

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Who's Mike Tannebaum??? 

It is a no brainer... if a QB gets sacked 50 times in 12 games. His young WR are undercoached and you don't have a running game.

Football is a team sport. It is more than about one player.

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3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Mike said watson, tannehill,  and Lawrence  are all better than Wentz and we gave up too much to get him. He's  a former  nfl gm and said it on espn.

I think he is probably correct on both of his opinions. I read Darnold could be had for a second round pick. But if you had him, you will still have the worst QB in our division.

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4 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:


As of today, what Tannenba said may be true.   But it doesn’t matter.   We’re not playing games today.   We’re playing games in 6 and a half months.  A lot can and will change between now and then. 
 

And for what it’s worth...   Tannenbaum might be one of my least favorite ESPN analysts.  Thought he was a bad GM and I think he’s a very poor analyst. 
 

MT’s background is more accounting and legal and much less scouting.   

I completely agree.  If you look at Tannenbaum career, he has failed at pretty much everything he has tried to do.

I dont put much stock in his opinion. 

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2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

 

I wouldn't put too much stock into that. Thinking Tannehill is better that what I believe Wentz can get back to with Reich is laughable to me. You simply have to throw out Carson's 2020 season. No QB would've been successful in that horrible culture they had. Even a 2019 version of Wentz is better than Tannehill. Tannehill disappears in games when Henry is slowed by defenses. 

 

Also I can't put a rookie above him either until they prove otherwise. 

 

Just a ridiculous comment. Tannehill last season was every bit as good as Wentz was in 2017...and even better across many statistical categories. Tannehill just did it in a season where Rodgers was historically great and Mahomes was Mahomes.

 

And Tannehill was on a different planet than Wentz in 2019. 

 

 

 

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Even if the rest of the QB's in the division end up better than Wentz, it doesn't mean Wentz will suck, and doesn't mean they'll ultimately have a better record. Time will tell. 

 

I don't think they gave up too much. 

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32 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Just a ridiculous comment. Tannehill last season was every bit as good as Wentz was in 2017...and even better across many statistical categories. Tannehill just did it in a season where Rodgers was historically great and Mahomes was Mahomes.

 

And Tannehill was on a different planet than Wentz in 2019. 

 

 

 

I disagree about tannehill  being  on 2017 wentz level this past year. 2017 wentz would have finished  with many more tds if he had played in all 16 games

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3 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

I think he is probably correct on both of his opinions. I read Darnold could be had for a second round pick. But if you had him, you will still have the worst QB in our division.

Yea but darnold  has been bad every  season

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Going by the stats, and given TL's ceiling, he's probably accurate right now at this stage. The script could flip very fast though. 

 

Watson - might not even be here... We might be talking Darnold or another guy soon.

 

Tannehill - I love Tannehill, but he's mostly a guy set up by the run, and is still limited. It wouldn't take a lot for Wentz to pass him.

 

Lawrence - Jax has a lot of draft capital and can make TL's rook year/life much easier if they want. Will they? Anyway, I'm sure he flashes some, but doubt he looks pro-bowl first year. Now second year....

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40 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

And Tannehill was on a different planet than Wentz in 2019. 

 

 

 

 

Yes, he was on Planet Henry. 

No doubt Tannehill is a capable QB. But a 2000 yard unstoppable Bull rushing for you extremely helps your passing game & stats. 

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HOW DARE HE TAKE A RUN AT OUR GUY!! MY TEAM MY QB! 

lol

 

whatever.

 

Could be true, but Watson is possibly on his way out and Trevor is a rookie and we haven't seen Wentz play as a Colt and, and and.

 

He achieved his goal, we're paying attention to his take. 

 

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Just now, The Fish said:

HOW DARE HE TAKE A RUN AT OUR GUY!! MY TEAM MY QB! 

lol

 

whatever.

 

Could be true, but Watson is possibly on his way out and Trevor is a rookie and we haven't seen Wentz play as a Colt and, and and.

 

He achieved his goal, we're paying attention to his take. 

 

I wonder if Seahawks  and Texans may switch qbs like the cutler  trade a while back

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