I think I’m Out on Ya-Sin

[Fisticuffs111]

I wasn’t a big fan of picking Rock. Just the whole second round super raw prospect thing, like Banogu.

 

I think he’s done okay though. Not great, and I don’t really think he becomes great, but I will say that I love his tackling ability/ball skills. And he’s gotta good mindset. I hope he can just be a solid no. 2 for us.

 

Still though, I’ve said since we drafted him, the kids gonna draw more penalties than most CB’s. Like Browner. Also, Rock always seems to be a tad bit slower to react/change direction. For as strong as he is, he seems to be lacking in those other areas.

[krunk]

Hes growing on me. Needs to be more consistent/disciplined but i like his scrappiness and toughness. I didnt like the deep ball he gave up but that can be corrected. He got beat either looking in the backfield i think looking to get a jump on the route for a pick but it turned into a double move. Take that one play away and Higgins stats look different. Although i do think Higgins will be a really good player.

[csmopar]

24 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I think at the end of the day he’s a pretty average player. Sometimes he’s good, sometimes he’s not good. He’s like Rivers. He’ll flash just enough to keep you hopeful, but ultimately just average, or worse if the bounces don’t go your way. I definitely don’t want to see a long-term commitment to him at this point. 

I disagree.  I don't think he'll be a super star. But I think he'll be a solid starter for years to come, above average. I mean, he's a second year CB taken in the 2nd round. He already looks 5 times better than this time last year. I think he'll keep improving.

[Nesjan3]

Seems like he is always getting spotlightled whether it be for a dumb mistake, getting burned, or a nice play. Either way a good trait of a corner is when you dont hear about him. That means he is doing his job. Rock is getting targeted as a weak spot on our team for sure.

[pgt_rob]

I think some of you forget the Greg Toler days...

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I think some of you forget the Greg Toler days...

i was just thinking about that. Was trying to remember his name. thanks

[Myles]

I'm all in on Rock.   He needs to improve and I think he will.  I'd rather go with him than an unknown at this point.  

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, pgt_rob said:

I think some of you forget the Greg Toler days...

 

Remember Tim Jennings?  He was also a whipping boy.  

 

It's a balancing act, some good players just don't fit the system or the culture.

[shasta519]

36 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I wasn’t a big fan of picking Rock. Just the whole second round super raw prospect thing, like Banogu.

 

I think he’s done okay though. Not great, and I don’t really think he becomes great, but I will say that I love his tackling ability/ball skills. And he’s gotta good mindset. I hope he can just be a solid no. 2 for us.

 

Still though, I’ve said since we drafted him, the kids gonna draw more penalties than most CB’s. Like Browner. Also, Rock always seems to be a tad bit slower to react/change direction. For as strong as he is, he seems to be lacking in those other areas.

That’s the Ballard special...the 2nd round defensive project picks. Seriously...Rock, Banogu, Turay and Lewis...were all projects for one reason or another. Lots of draft capital there.

 

I was glad to see them get away from that this past year...even if I’m not crazy about Pittman’s ceiling. 
 

I think Rock is a decent player...we tend to overreact to both the good and bad plays. 

[Coffeedrinker]

9 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Looking at stats makes people believe the Colts really have the best defense in the NFL, but even us die hards know that ain’t true. I go off the eye test.

He’s getting penalties almost every game. How many games has he not had a flag this season? Off the top of my head 1? And unless I’m looking at the wrong stats, he’s got a PFF rating of 57.6

That is the problem with the eye test.  Rock has 1 penalty this year... unnecessary roughness in week 6  So your eye test says he has one game WITHOUT a penalty but the fact is he has 1 game WITH a penalty. https://www.nflpenalties.com/position/defensive-back/cornerback?year=2020

[Two_pound]

I don't think any of our defensive backs look very good when they are playing stand around zone defense. The more aggressive they play the better they are(Kenny Moore especially). We actually have a pretty solid group of db's.

[Fluke_33]

can we all at least agree that when he makes a big hit, penalty or otherwise, the stadium should play Rock Superstar by Cyprus Hill?

[Coffeedrinker]

Two weeks in a row now the Colts defensive has played poorly in the 1st half only to come back and allow only a FG in the 2nd half.  The defense is for real but they need to come out of the gate faster.  To me it shows that Flus is not a very good game planner but he is good and reading the game and making adjustments.  I'm sure they do this but if not, I think Flus needs to figure out how other teams are going to game plan against his defense and then develop the game plan on that.  It seems like all he does his look at the opposing team film and develops his game plan from that, he does not take into account the adjustments the other team will make based on the Colts game film.

[Freenyfan102]

He not to bad walker the * that needs to know how to cover

[Chucklez]

Dee Ford lost the Chiefs the 2018 AFCCG by lining up offside on 4th down in the dying minutes of the game. Huge penalty.... is Dee Ford a bad player?

Players make mistakes, it happens, they also do good things. Rock is young and improving, your standards and expectations of perfection are way too high. Did we win the game? Yes? Then he / the defense did enough that week. Move on to the next one.

[indyagent17]

He played pretty well except the long post pass. I like how he is progressing and I expect him to improve over time 

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

That is the problem with the eye test.  Rock has 1 penalty this year... unnecessary roughness in week 6  So your eye test says he has one game WITHOUT a penalty but the fact is he has 1 game WITH a penalty. https://www.nflpenalties.com/position/defensive-back/cornerback?year=2020

Not sure that board is correct.  Its showing him playing 6 games, and I swear he has missed at least one game.  Maybe the game count isn't for the player but for the team.

[Coffeedrinker]

Just now, DougDew said:

Not sure that board is correct.  Its showing him playing 6 games, and I swear he has missed at least one game.  Maybe the game count isn't for the player but for the team.

As far as I could tell it is for the team.

[Chucklez]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure that board is correct.  Its showing him playing 6 games, and I swear he has missed at least one game.  Maybe the game count isn't for the player but for the team.

 

1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

As far as I could tell it is for the team.

It actually says at the top of the page above the table that the games played are team games played, not by individual player.

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure that board is correct.  Its showing him playing 6 games, and I swear he has missed at least one game.  Maybe the game count isn't for the player but for the team.

It's for the team but is kind of irrelevant.  He still only has 1 penalty this season which is far from the   comment made:

 

"He’s getting penalties almost every game. How many games has he not had a flag this season? Off the top of my head 1?"

[DougDew]

I don't have a dog in this fight, I think Rock is fine.  He generally does his job.

 

Just wondering though, if there are stats involved, its important to know how many games he's played.

[Dogg63]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

It's for the team but is kind of irrelevant.  He still only has 1 penalty this season which is far from the   comment made:

 

"He’s getting penalties almost every game. How many games has he not had a flag this season? Off the top of my head 1?"

He had penalties in 4 games last season and one penalty so far this season (yesterday).

 

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Just wondering though, if there are stats involved, its important to know how many games he's played.

He was out weeks 2 and 3 this season (stomach/intestinal issue); he's played in 4 games and started 3 of them.

[Four2itus]

4 hours ago, shasta519 said:

That’s the Ballard special...the 2nd round defensive project picks.

Aren't all 2nd rounds picks a project in some manner?

[Coffeedrinker]

25 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Aren't all 2nd rounds picks a project in some manner?

For most teams.  But for the Colts, if the 2nd round pick is not instantly an All-pro then it's a wasted pick and someone better was to be had.

[Myles]

2nd round picks that make the pro bowl average 5.5 per year.  So less than 1 in 5.  i think Ballard is better than that with Leonard, Rock, Taylor, Smith, Pittman and Campbell.  Granted only Leonard has been a pro bowler so far, but I think each of those can in the years to come.   

[crazycolt1]

14 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

He's only going to get better.  It takes time to master his position.  It's like a fine-wine.  Be patient.  I like his strength and his speed.  Did he mess up today a few times, yes, no doubt.  It's going to happen.  Reich should have had him out of the game after his brain-fart WWF move.  But NOOO, Reich left him in.

Maybe Frank feels Rocks time on the field is more important? That is the only way he learns and gets better. 

Regardless of the Bengals record Boyd and Green are all pro receivers. Plus Joe Burrow is the real deal. 

The experience that Rock got yesterday only makes him better. 

Head coaches don't bench players for making a mistake.

 

[AZColt11]

He plays like a young guy that is trying to figure it out in the NFL.....inconsistent.  I need more time to make a judgment on Rock.

[Fluke_33]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

2nd round picks that make the pro bowl average 5.5 per year.  So less than 1 in 5.  i think Ballard is better than that with Leonard, Rock, Taylor, Smith, Pittman and Campbell.  Granted only Leonard has been a pro bowler so far, but I think each of those can in the years to come.   

I agree with your sentiment but you just named 1 out of 6 others.  lol

[NorthernColt]

I feel like we get spoiled by some of our recent defensive picks them seemingly are and look like studs "Leonard, Okereke, Blackmon" that if we get a guy who's just "solid" some of us are upset. 

 

Personally I'm neither high or low on him. I think he's fine, I don't think he'll ever be a true #1 CB, but I think he can be a really solid #2 Outside guy.

[chrisfarley]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe Frank feels Rocks time on the field is more important? That is the only way he learns and gets better. 

Regardless of the Bengals record Boyd and Green are all pro receivers. Plus Joe Burrow is the real deal. 

The experience that Rock got yesterday only makes him better. 

Head coaches don't bench players for making a mistake.

 

I'm not talking about benching him, I'm saying they should have had him out right after the terrible costly penalty he had.  You could say it cost us a TD because it was 3 and 12 or something and then Burrow marched right down.  There should be consequences if not but just one down to yank him out.

[Defjamz26]

5 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Aren't all 2nd rounds picks a project in some manner?

Not necessarily. You figure in most drafts the back half of the first round picks aren’t much higher on boards than the guys who go early in the 2nd rounds. But don’t mistake a guy who needs development with a “project”. A guy like Tee Higgins is someone who needs development which means you’re expecting a real contribution in year 2. A project is a guy you usually take day 3 who has traits but needs to sit, learn, and probably get in the weight room. You’re not expecting contribution until maybe year 3 and best case scenario a starter in year 4. 
 

Banogu was a straight up project. All he had was traits. No production or skill set to warrant that high of a selection.

[krunk]

29 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Not necessarily. You figure in most drafts the back half of the first round picks aren’t much higher on boards than the guys who go early in the 2nd rounds. But don’t mistake a guy who needs development with a “project”. A guy like Tee Higgins is someone who needs development which means you’re expecting a real contribution in year 2. A project is a guy you usually take day 3 who has traits but needs to sit, learn, and probably get in the weight room. You’re not expecting contribution until maybe year 3 and best case scenario a starter in year 4. 
 

Banogu was a straight up project. All he had was traits. No production or skill set to warrant that high of a selection.

Banogu had better production than Turay in College. Id like to see a bit more from Banogu but it may take more time than we thought. Someone else reminded that Jerry Hughes came from the same school and maybe even the same system

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

I'm not talking about benching him, I'm saying they should have had him out right after the terrible costly penalty he had.  You could say it cost us a TD because it was 3 and 12 or something and then Burrow marched right down.  There should be consequences if not but just one down to yank him out.

So Frank should have done what?

Sit him down for one or two plays and then put a less talented player on the field in his place? 

There is consequences. He will be fined by the league for his personal foul.  So it's not like he gets off scot free. 

 

You can't say for certain it cost us a TD because an assumption is not a fact. 

Just saying

[Fisticuffs111]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Banogu had better production than Turay

 

Not in their rookie years? Unless you mean last year.

[krunk]

I think our secondary would struggle a lot more if we lost Rhodes

Just now, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Not in their rookie years? Unless you mean last year.

College

[Fisticuffs111]

Just now, krunk said:

I think our secondary would struggle a lot more if we lost Rhodes

College

 

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you’re right there.

 

On the same topic, Turay might be one of my favorite Ballard finds in that respect. I have my quarrels with the Banogu/Lewis picks, but I fully believe Turay would be one of our better pieces on defense had he not struggled with injuries. I have my doubts that he can stay healthy, but if he can? Watch out.

 

[Moosejawcolt]

22 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I know that he’s a young player and CB is a hard position to transition to from the pros, but I’m not seeing it from him. He’s tough and physical but I’m seeing more negative than positives each week. He’s making the same mistakes over and over again. It’s like each week he’s good for 1 PBU, 2 tackles, 1-2 PI calls, 1 hold, and 3-4 times to be beat in one on one coverage. Today he outdid himself with an unnecessary roughness call by German Suplexing somebody.

 

The pass defense as a whole has been disappointing, but it could be argued that Rock has been the low spot. The big play he gave up to Higgins was unacceptable. If you’re going to be that fiery and vocal, the play needs to match.

He hasnt got the speed so he clutches  and grabs.

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

He is still learning the 2nd hardest position in football. 

It not unusual to take three years. 

There is a reason they call it being on an island. 

U dont play on an island when u r a zone corner.  Just ssying

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U dont play on an island when u r a zone corner.  Just ssying

It's just a figure of speech. 

Plus it all depends on what cover is used. We do switch to different ones from time to time. 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

33 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's just a figure of speech. 

Plus it all depends on what cover is used. We do switch to different ones from time to time. 

 

Point taken.