Rick Venturi seems to say Luck never had elite arm strength. I agree

[Larry Horseman]

I’ve been wondering if the rain played a major role related to how Luck’s arm looked on Sunday. He hasn’t thrown a wet, heavy ball in a long time. Plus a heavy ball could exacerbate arm strength issues. I’m hoping this week at home is a different story. 

[krunk]

Venturi said outside of Costanzo, Leraven Clark is our best tackle. He said Haeg has been bad especially during the Eagles game. Said he spent most of the afternoon in Lucks lap. Said Good and Haeg are about even for whatever thats worth. Man we got it bad out there. Said Clark is our best outside of Costanzo. Which is funny because before he said that he said Clark was an "accident waiting to happen". Jeeeesh!

[Trueman]

lol @ the people calling Luck overrated or just really good.

Unbelievable , we must've been following a different team for 6 years.

[deedub75]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I had very low expectations for Luck.    His arm has looked WORSE each week.

 

It look good against Cincy.....    less good against Washington,  and embarrassingly weak against Philly.      That's not a good trend.      I'm not concerned that he doesn't look like 2014 Andrew Luck.      I'm concerned that he looks worse every week.    And this week was terrible.

 

 

I am with you. I was thinking his arm strength would improve a bit each week with him throwing more. He’s going the other direction though. It could very well be fatigue from throwing too much.  

[compuls1v3]

12 hours ago, Boiler_Colt said:

Look, I'm a huge fan of Andrew and I have defended him against people calling him overrated for years. But do we really owe it to Luck to work out his kinks on the fly and make sure he has fun? The purpose should be to win football games and if he's not 100% and cant make all the throws we're doing a disservice to the other 52 guys on the roster. I sincerely hope he balls out against Houston but I cant help but wonder.

So what's your solution? Have Luck ride the pine?

[Colt Overseas]

8 hours ago, krunk said:

Venturi said outside of Costanzo, Leraven Clark is our best tackle. He said Haeg has been bad especially during the Eagles game. Said he spent most of the afternoon in Lucks lap. Said Good and Haeg are about even for whatever thats worth. Man we got it bad out there. Said Clark is our best outside of Costanzo. Which is funny because before he said that he said Clark was an "accident waiting to happen". Jeeeesh!

 

Denzelle Good has put together a couple of solid games at RT before. He is better than Haeg especially as a run blocker, just so injury prone. Getting back him and Costanzo with Turbin and Mack, and our run game will get going.

[Colt.45]

How strong is Drew Brees arm? Who cares about arm strength??? Can you get the ball where it needs to go in a timely manner? That's all that matters. Tom Moore once said he didn't care how pretty Peyton's throws were, as long as they got there when they needed to.

 

This is a crazy debate. Venturi is right, it doesn't matter. He knows very well that having a howitzer means nothing.

[braveheartcolt]

3 games in and the sky is falling in already. What a load of tosh. Give the guy a chance. Some of you just love an opportunity to gripe. We held onto Jacoby for a reason, therefore expect him to take over if and when the coaches think Andrew's slide is hurting our chances.

[John Waylon]

Paging Phil Simms. Ground control to major Phil. 

[The Fish]

12 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

Luck actually short-hopped a 5-yard slant to Hilton. 

 

 

There was two of these in the game that left me concerned. 

All I can say is I (and all of us) are hoping he's still recovering, gaining strength. He's still got the intangibles and brain to be solid, but if he doesn't get some more juice. I dunno.

[Coffeedrinker]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, Dear God.....

 

Here we go again with another misguided thread...

 

We can all agree to disagree on what level strength Andrew Luck once had.

 

The bottom line is....   it doesn’t matter  what he ONCE HAD, it only matters what he CURRENTLY has.   Even the local media asked Reich on Monday if there was concern over Lucks lack of velocity.

 

Luck actually short-hopped a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   His arm is dramatically and clearly weaker.   Something is not right with Andrew.

 

Anyone denying this is sailing up the river Denial.  

 

By the way...   regarding the last throw...   the Hail Mary...   Brisset’s pass traveled roughly 68-70 yards.

 

Anyone remember Luck’s last throw of his Pro Day?   76 yards to Chris Owusu.

The old Luck could’ve made that throw.

The new one can’t come close...

 

You keep bringing this up are you really trying to indicate Luck does not have the arm strength to throw a 5 yard slant pattern? 

 

To the rest... on the underthrow to Hilton that was called a pass interference... to me that looked more like a timing thing than an arm strength thing.  Watching Luck, it's not like he put his whole body into the throw and it came up short, he just didn't expect Hilton to be that far down the field.  Then, could Luck have made the last second hail mary throw.  Probably, but the question is why would the team attempt it and risk it?  Luck has not been in a situation yet where he had to put everything into a throw so they don't know how his shoulder will respond, so why send him out there to, possibly, injure his shoulder on a low percentage play in the 3rd regular season game of the season?  Whether his shoulder is fully healed or not, it makes no sense to have him out there in that situation.

[MacDee1975]

You know who had great arm strength?  Jamarcus Russell

 

You know who didn't?  Joe Montana

[K-148]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I had very low expectations for Luck.    His arm has looked WORSE each week.

 

It look good against Cincy.....    less good against Washington,  and embarrassingly weak against Philly.      That's not a good trend.      I'm not concerned that he doesn't look like 2014 Andrew Luck.      I'm concerned that he looks worse every week.    And this week was terrible.

 

Week 1. Dome (roof closed), 59 F (outside).

Week 2. Outdoor (cloudy), 71 F, wind 5 mph.

Week 3. Outdoor (rain), 61 F, wind 5 mph.

It was supposed to be worse each week.

[Valpo2004]

His arm strength I don't think is what it once was but it's good enough.  He showed several times I believe that he has enough zip to get the ball through windows before they close.  

[TigerColt]

I'm not concerned as much about arm strength.  He can make the throws.  One of the things that is noticeably different in Lucks game is his reluctance to run the ball. 

 

Example.  Against the Eagles on a 3rd and goal play he had open field in front of him to easily get the first down.   He threw to Ebron instead. He was a little high but went through his  hands.  

 

Joseph

[Valpo2004]

55 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

How strong is Drew Brees arm? Who cares about arm strength??? Can you get the ball where it needs to go in a timely manner? That's all that matters. Tom Moore once said he didn't care how pretty Peyton's throws were, as long as they got there when they needed to.

 

This is a crazy debate. Venturi is right, it doesn't matter. He knows very well that having a howitzer means nothing.

 

To me arm strength is something that you have to have a certain amount of in order to play in the NFL.  But after you reach that amount the amount of extra help it gives you goes down substantially.  

 

The guys known for having the strongest arms are not the same as the guys known for being the top quarterbacks in the league.  

 

The top QB's in the league are known for football IQ, accuracy, and being able to extend plays.  

[Valpo2004]

11 minutes ago, cjrichard said:

I'm not concerned as much about arm strength.  He can make the throws.  One of the things that is noticeably different in Lucks game is his reluctance to run the ball. 

 

Example.  Against the Eagles on a 3rd and goal play he had open field in front of him to easily get the first down.   He threw to Ebron instead. He was a little high but went through his  hands.  

 

Joseph

 

This is what I talked about in another thread about feeling like in the red zone he was forcing throws to Ebron.  

 

Andrew has a pass first mentality so I somewhat understand it, and I certainly don't want him to take a "run first" mentality.  But in that situation I'd rather have him take the first down, get out of bounds and go back on the doorstep of the goal line with a fresh set of downs then try to force and all or nothing pass to Ebron. 

 

To me that was the biggest problem in the game.  

 

For the record I will say I don't have a problem with where he placed the ball.  In that situation you put it where only your guy can get it.  Makes the catch tougher but it prevents interceptions.  My problem was the decision to throw over taking the easy first down.  And part of that is because a throw like that isn't an easy pitch and catch, the receiver has to make a play on it so the chances of a catch are not like 95%+ like if he was hit in his numbers.  

[stitches]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, Dear God.....

 

Here we go again with another misguided thread...

 

We can all agree to disagree on what level strength Andrew Luck once had.

 

The bottom line is....   it doesn’t matter  what he ONCE HAD, it only matters what he CURRENTLY has.   Even the local media asked Reich on Monday if there was concern over Lucks lack of velocity.

 

Luck actually short-hopped a 5-yard slant to Hilton.   His arm is dramatically and clearly weaker.   Something is not right with Andrew.

 

Anyone denying this is sailing up the river Denial.  

 

By the way...   regarding the last throw...   the Hail Mary...   Brisset’s pass traveled roughly 68-70 yards.

 

Anyone remember Luck’s last throw of his Pro Day?   76 yards to Chris Owusu.

The old Luck could’ve made that throw.

The new one can’t come close...

 

And it's not just the long ball. Even the intermediate length throws lack zip and velocity. The throw to TY to the sideline when he was absolutely open fluttered in the air like it was deflected or something and went from sure completion and 1st down to "oh wow, this one is 50-50" to ... "damn how did the defender not intercept that" incompletion simply because it didn't have the velocity. In that video above... just look at the pass interferences called on throws to TY deep... the reason they were pass interferences is because those were underthrown. The old Luck was leading TY in stride into the end zone on those same throws. This is again lack of arm strength. 

 

People would go to such lengths in order to comfort themselves and lie to themselves that everything is alright or it's all normal. Luck was never Josh Allen type thrower, but I never watched Luck and worried that he couldn't get the ball where it needs to go at the exact time he wanted it to be there. Now I do. To me it's obvious that he's limited. Don't listen to what Reich is saying, watch what he's doing(dink and dunk offense, taking him out on hail mary, etc.)... Luck had 5, 5, 4 yards per attempt in the first 3 games. This is insane. This is not normal. Let me put it in perspective... Running backs have about 4 yards per attempt in the league. We've turned Luck into the equivalent of a running back efficiency-wise. 

 

People are comparing him to Alex Smith, as if Alex Smith has ever been good enough to bring a team to the Superbowl. And just for the record - Alex Smith's yards per attempt for his career are 6.9 and have only dropped once under 7 in the last 8 years. Right now Luck is not Alex Smith. Right now Luck is MUCH MUCH worse. 

 

With that said, I don't agree with some of your takes @NewColtsFan. I don't think he's lacking in mental processing of the game or pocket presence. He still moves EXTREMELY well in the pocket and processes what's happening around him very well. IMO whenever he seems hesitant it's almost always because he's doing a double take about whether with his current armstrength he can fit the ball in the required window or he can throw it far enough. And IMO the 5 yard short to TY doesn't have much to do with his armstrength. It's just a bad throw, it happens to everybody once in a while. IMO the lack of arm-strength can be best seen on intermediate throws that require zip and on the long throws. I haven't really had much to complain about his accuracy/arm-strength on short throws.... I think it's good enough for that. 

 

Now the question is what part of the dink and dunk offense do we apportion to:

1. Luck's arm-strength limitations

2. Reich's system

3. OLine (missing OTs) consideration

4. Lack of good weapons

 

Lets leave 1 unanswered for now. 

 

2. Reich's system. He has never been a part of such an impotent passing offense and I refuse to believe that this is what he wants to run as offense in his ideal scenario. San Diego ranked 10th and 13th in yards per attempt (between 7.3 and 7.5) in the two years he was OC there. I really don't think Reich wants us to be this much of a dink and dunk offense, even if he likes to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

3. OLine considerations - IMO this one is real. IMO this one definitely plays a part in the way Reich is calling the games. Our tackles are getting beat extremely quickly and if I had a franchise QB returning from serious injury, I'd want to protect him by making him get rid off the ball quickly, too. 

4. Lack of good weapons - this IMO is a small factor and it's real. We do not have explosive weapons who can beat press-man coverage. Hilton is great but he's not a traditional press-man beater. He gets free on longer routes and IMO both the O-line and Luck right now are not able to secure this type of offense. But even with that said IMO we should still be able to get better/more efficient offense with Luck.  

 

In summary, IMO the reason for the dink and dunk offense are likely 3 and to what extent they all contribute to the problem is debatable but IMO all 3 are legit reason and some of them interplay with eachother. If I had to rank them I'd say the O-line and Luck's arm-strength are the main two with smaller influence from the receiving core that lacks weapons who can create after the catch. 

[Matthew Gilbert]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Anyone remember Luck’s last throw of his Pro Day?   76 yards to Chris Owusu.

The old Luck could’ve made that throw.

The new one can’t come close...

I was going to mention this. I remember when that during the nit picking process of evaluating Luck, his arm strength was the only real question mark. He put that to bed after that throw at his pro day. The only way Manning has ever thrown a ball 70+ yards in his life, is maybe with a Nerf Vortex. 

[Fisticuffs111]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

2. Reich's system. He has never been a part of such an impotent passing offense and I refuse to believe that this is what he wants to run as offense in his ideal scenario. San Diego ranked 10th and 13th in yards per attempt (between 7.3 and 7.5) in the two years he was OC there. I really don't think Reich wants us to be this much of a dink and dunk offense, even if he likes to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

 

Yeah, this is a pretty telling stat imo:

 

The sky isn't falling and I'm hoping it's just Luck still working his way back to 100%, but yeah, I don't think his velocity has been shown consistently at all so far. And I thought week 3 was the worst it's looked yet this season (or pre-season for that matter, when we were taking heat for even questioning his velocity).

[TDewar1987]

Jay Cutler had a big arm too.

[chad72]

8 minutes ago, TDewar1987 said:

Jay Cutler had a big arm too.

 

...and a fifty cent head.  

[ProblChld32]

15 hours ago, RollerColt said:

 

 

There is a very clear difference in Zip the ball isn’t getting there fast enough this season. He also doesn’t seem to get the ball farther down the field anymore. But I will attribute this to him being out for as long as he has as well as his own fear of his throwing arm which is mentally limiting him from letting it rip.

[DougDew]

15 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Plenty of arm strength of he has a clean pocket 

Agreed.  I can't see what people are worked up about.  When he has room to step into his throws, he looks like the same Luck to me.  Never had a cannon. The problem with the Philly game was pass protection....including from the interior....not allowing him to get set.  And he's always thrown well when on the move.

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Matthew Gilbert said:

I was going to mention this. I remember when that during the nit picking process of evaluating Luck, his arm strength was the only real question mark. He put that to bed after that throw at his pro day. The only way Manning has ever thrown a ball 70+ yards in his life, is maybe with a Nerf Vortex. 

Correct.  Arm strength was a question mark during his college career, and it was a nit pick.  I think Luck probably needs to step into his throws a bit more than some other QBs.  He's always had a bit of a different throwing motion than some others who seem to be able to whip it down field more elegantly.  Its plenty strong enough, but certain adverse game situations impact his velocity more than some other QBs, IMO.

[DougDew]

I'm a bit miffed.  

 

Are people saying Luck has less velocity now than he did the past two years?  He as less velocity with a repaired labrum than he had with a torn labrum?

 

I didn't see the concern over arm strength when he was playing on an injured shoulder, having read comparisons then to his first three years.

[chad72]

Luck still underthrows T.Y. a bit from the clips I see, his arm strength is not that different, his timing is off. When he does throw it flatter, I see T.Y. dropping it more like the Bengals game, which could be the reason he is putting a tad more air on it it. However, if he gives enough air, the DBs are too quick to get there at this level. What I see is not an issue of capability, an issue of timing. 

 

Both Luck and the wide outs need to make some adjustments. Man, Rogers and Ebron, I shake my head more after re-watching their performance vs the Eagles. 

 

Tough wide outs make contested catches. Same contested catches that Dion Lewis and James White made for Brady, Sony Michel does not seem to make, though he is just a rookie. Same contested catches that Edelman makes for Brady, Dorsett and Hogan cannot make in the slot. That is the difference between drive killers and key first downs / chain movers. 

[Superman]

17 hours ago, RollerColt said:

 

 

Some of those second level throws were great. Perfect ball placement, perfect trajectory to drop it in the open area, and a couple had some zip. 

 

But the concern is with the deep balls that should be out in front of the receiver and the defense, but wind up being overthrows. Like the third play on the reel. But it doesn't look like Luck is ripping it, so I don't think it can be said that he is unable to make that throw. I bet he rips a couple this week. 

 

The other concern is with the deep outs. There was one against the Eagles that almost got picked because it didn't have the zip it needed, he floated it. Those are the throws, more than the deep balls, that require velocity. I'm not convinced he can make that throw without a perfect setup and delivery. Not yet, at least. 

 

I think his arm strength is still a work in progress. He's probably 75% there, and we probably won't see much more in terms of distance and velocity this season. If he gets it back, it will be over the offseason. 

[shasta519]

Luck has never had Rodgers' type of arm. But he could make the vast majority of throws. And when some of us are talking about Luck's arm strength...here is a reminder of what we mean:

 

 

That is a (on the run, falling to the left) 50+ yard laser beam to Brazill for a TD. Right now, it is hard to imagine Luck making that throw (and who knows...maybe he never can again). 

 

I think it's pretty obvious his arm isn't back yet...and I am surprised that this is being so heavily debated and the unnecessary excuses that keep coming out. At this point, we just have to hope he keeps getting stronger.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

Luck has never had Rodgers' type of arm. But he could make the vast majority of throws. And when some of us are talking about Luck's arm strength...here is a reminder of what we mean:

 

 

That is a (on the run, falling to the left) 50+ yard laser beam to Brazill for a TD. Right now, it is hard to imagine Luck making that throw (and who knows...maybe he never can again). 

 

I think it's pretty obvious his arm isn't back yet...and I am surprised that this is being so heavily debated and the unnecessary excuses that keep coming out. At this point, we just have to hope he keeps getting stronger.

As I and several have said, he has always thrown well on the move, as he did in the Philly game.  The issue is when he is in the pocket, unable to step up or is rushed, do the throws have less velocity than in the past?  And is it due to the lack of strength, or indecision or rust about how hard he needs to throw it?  I don't think a lack of strength is obvious at all.

[shasta519]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

As I and several have said, he has always thrown well on the move, as he did in the Philly game.  The issue is when he is in the pocket, unable to step up or is rushed, do the throws have less velocity than in the past?  And is it due to the lack of strength, or indecision or rust about how hard he needs to throw it?  I don't think a lack of strength is obvious at all.

 

It's probably a combination of both. Here is Luck in the pocket: 

 

 

He wasn't rushed...but that deep throw has a lot of velocity and he makes it with ease. I think it's hard to imagine him making that pass either. 

 

Again, I don't think it's drastic (like with Manning in DEN). But it is noticeable...passes will loft instead of darting. That PI to Hilton down the sideline was a good example...he was rushed and underthrew it (and he was actually stepping into that).

 

I actually think the prospect of Luck not being there yet is exciting. Means he will only get better going forward.

 

 

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Some of those second level throws were great. Perfect ball placement, perfect trajectory to drop it in the open area, and a couple had some zip. 

 

But the concern is with the deep balls that should be out in front of the receiver and the defense, but wind up being overthrows. Like the third play on the reel. But it doesn't look like Luck is ripping it, so I don't think it can be said that he is unable to make that throw. I bet he rips a couple this week. 

 

The other concern is with the deep outs. There was one against the Eagles that almost got picked because it didn't have the zip it needed, he floated it. Those are the throws, more than the deep balls, that require velocity. I'm not convinced he can make that throw without a perfect setup and delivery. Not yet, at least. 

 

I think his arm strength is still a work in progress. He's probably 75% there, and we probably won't see much more in terms of distance and velocity this season. If he gets it back, it will be over the offseason. 

I agree with your assessments. To be honest I went into this season with the expectations that he would still be in the rehabbing process and therefore wouldn't have the strength yet. Which, he has admitted he is still on a long path to being fully recovered. 

 

I think you're also right when it comes to the timing of all of this. The regular season isn't the place to work on strength and conditioning. There's just too much going on to focus on that with game-planning, rehabbing, resting and mental preparations. It's a long season and it won't get any easier. 

 

I paid special attention to his comments about feeling like he was "in a car accident". He's had a year away from the bruising, violent nature of the sport. I'm sure there's a lot going on in the background with all of this. 

 

I'm not going to try and state that nothing is wrong, because there very well could be something. He's taken some nasty hits to start the year off. How he responds this weekend at home might give us a better clue on how he's doing as far as the mental and physical preparations. 

[NewColtsFan]

18 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

There was two of these in the game that left me concerned. 

All I can say is I (and all of us) are hoping he's still recovering, gaining strength. He's still got the intangibles and brain to be solid, but if he doesn't get some more juice. I dunno.

 

Thanks....

 

I've been giving this one some thought....    clearly Luck can throw the ball 5 yards....   that doesn't concern me.    It could be his feet...   his balance dropping back....    perhaps a wet football slipped out of his hand?     maybe he thought a defender was going to step in front for an interception and he pulled the string...    better an incomplete than a pick.     But it looked so terrible....   he sometimes looks completely uncoordinated...      not as bad as a new bon giraffe...     but perhaps just very, very rusty.

 

Hey, Luck is a guy who,  like Peyton,  LOVES practice and getting a lot of reps.    He may need a lot more.     But I'm a little bit hopeful we're going to see a much better Luck this week.

[NewColtsFan]

18 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

You keep bringing this up are you really trying to indicate Luck does not have the arm strength to throw a 5 yard slant pattern? 

 

To the rest... on the underthrow to Hilton that was called a pass interference... to me that looked more like a timing thing than an arm strength thing.  Watching Luck, it's not like he put his whole body into the throw and it came up short, he just didn't expect Hilton to be that far down the field.  Then, could Luck have made the last second hail mary throw.  Probably, but the question is why would the team attempt it and risk it?  Luck has not been in a situation yet where he had to put everything into a throw so they don't know how his shoulder will respond, so why send him out there to, possibly, injure his shoulder on a low percentage play in the 3rd regular season game of the season?  Whether his shoulder is fully healed or not, it makes no sense to have him out there in that situation.

 

That's a fair point you bring up, CD...   and, by coincidence,  I addressed it in another post.   So, I don't want to repeat myself and have it seem like wallpaper....

 

But you're right....   clearly Luck can throw a 5-yard pass.    I've thought about it,  and maybe the pass slipped out of his hand...   maybe he thought a defender might step in for the pick and he tried to avoid that....   bad footwork...    could've been a lot of things.     But he looks badly out of synch....     and my concerns with Andrew are much more than his arm...     what does he see...  how does he react...     what is he processing in the moment...    I'm trying to see Luck objectively and not just as a fan.

 

I'm not trying to start a fire here...    I'll try to tone it down some...    I've said publicly here this week that I think we might see a much better Andrew Luck this week...    I'm hopeful....

 

[NewColtsFan]

17 hours ago, stitches said:

And it's not just the long ball. Even the intermediate length throws lack zip and velocity. The throw to TY to the sideline when he was absolutely open fluttered in the air like it was deflected or something and went from sure completion and 1st down to "oh wow, this one is 50-50" to ... "damn how did the defender not intercept that" incompletion simply because it didn't have the velocity. In that video above... just look at the pass interferences called on throws to TY deep... the reason they were pass interferences is because those were underthrown. The old Luck was leading TY in stride into the end zone on those same throws. This is again lack of arm strength. 

 

People would go to such lengths in order to comfort themselves and lie to themselves that everything is alright or it's all normal. Luck was never Josh Allen type thrower, but I never watched Luck and worried that he couldn't get the ball where it needs to go at the exact time he wanted it to be there. Now I do. To me it's obvious that he's limited. Don't listen to what Reich is saying, watch what he's doing(dink and dunk offense, taking him out on hail mary, etc.)... Luck had 5, 5, 4 yards per attempt in the first 3 games. This is insane. This is not normal. Let me put it in perspective... Running backs have about 4 yards per attempt in the league. We've turned Luck into the equivalent of a running back efficiency-wise. 

 

People are comparing him to Alex Smith, as if Alex Smith has ever been good enough to bring a team to the Superbowl. And just for the record - Alex Smith's yards per attempt for his career are 6.9 and have only dropped once under 7 in the last 8 years. Right now Luck is not Alex Smith. Right now Luck is MUCH MUCH worse. 

 

With that said, I don't agree with some of your takes @NewColtsFan. I don't think he's lacking in mental processing of the game or pocket presence. He still moves EXTREMELY well in the pocket and processes what's happening around him very well. IMO whenever he seems hesitant it's almost always because he's doing a double take about whether with his current armstrength he can fit the ball in the required window or he can throw it far enough. And IMO the 5 yard short to TY doesn't have much to do with his armstrength. It's just a bad throw, it happens to everybody once in a while. IMO the lack of arm-strength can be best seen on intermediate throws that require zip and on the long throws. I haven't really had much to complain about his accuracy/arm-strength on short throws.... I think it's good enough for that. 

 

Now the question is what part of the dink and dunk offense do we apportion to:

1. Luck's arm-strength limitations

2. Reich's system

3. OLine (missing OTs) consideration

4. Lack of good weapons

 

Lets leave 1 unanswered for now. 

 

2. Reich's system. He has never been a part of such an impotent passing offense and I refuse to believe that this is what he wants to run as offense in his ideal scenario. San Diego ranked 10th and 13th in yards per attempt (between 7.3 and 7.5) in the two years he was OC there. I really don't think Reich wants us to be this much of a dink and dunk offense, even if he likes to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

3. OLine considerations - IMO this one is real. IMO this one definitely plays a part in the way Reich is calling the games. Our tackles are getting beat extremely quickly and if I had a franchise QB returning from serious injury, I'd want to protect him by making him get rid off the ball quickly, too. 

4. Lack of good weapons - this IMO is a small factor and it's real. We do not have explosive weapons who can beat press-man coverage. Hilton is great but he's not a traditional press-man beater. He gets free on longer routes and IMO both the O-line and Luck right now are not able to secure this type of offense. But even with that said IMO we should still be able to get better/more efficient offense with Luck.  

 

In summary, IMO the reason for the dink and dunk offense are likely 3 and to what extent they all contribute to the problem is debatable but IMO all 3 are legit reason and some of them interplay with eachother. If I had to rank them I'd say the O-line and Luck's arm-strength are the main two with smaller influence from the receiving core that lacks weapons who can create after the catch. 

 

Good post...    Fair post...

 

I'll explain the part about what he's seeing and how he's processing...

 

There was a play...    I think it was in the first half...    Colts had the ball around the Philly 10-12...   3rd and 5 and we tried to pass...    Luck moved in the pocket to avoid pressure and was fine...   he moved right and suddenly he was in the clear...    honestly he could've run for the 1st down,  and maybe even more...   he moved forward a step or two and I thought he was going to run...    and then he saw a receiver and tried to hit him and missed high...    I think it was Ebron...     the low angle, EZ replay showed the pass was thrown too late (in additon to too high)...     so,  it made me wonder....     I'm sure he killed himself when he saw that play on Monday.    Blown Red Zone opportunity.  

 

I just want to say that my concerns for Andrew are more than just the arm strength...   and I'm trying to watch him objectively, not as a fan....    would this be someone we'd like to sign as a free agent next year if we were watching him perform for some other team?    Would we want to sign Luck for the 2019 season?     I'm not sure.    And so I'm trying to watch closely....

 

I'm hopeful for better this week....

 

[Rackeen305]

Wait a min. So someone else can call out the BEST PLAYER on the team for having mediocre or less than great abilities and yall let that slide without issue. I call out AC as mediocre and it's WWIII?

 

Hypocrisy?

[DougDew]

21 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

It's probably a combination of both. Here is Luck in the pocket: 

 

 

He wasn't rushed...but that deep throw has a lot of velocity and he makes it with ease. I think it's hard to imagine him making that pass either. 

 

Again, I don't think it's drastic (like with Manning in DEN). But it is noticeable...passes will loft instead of darting. That PI to Hilton down the sideline was a good example...he was rushed and underthrew it (and he was actually stepping into that).

 

I actually think the prospect of Luck not being there yet is exciting. Means he will only get better going forward.

 

 

Luck stepped way up in the pocket and got his full body and legs into that throw.  I don't know if he's done that yet this season.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Rackeen305 said:

Wait a min. So someone else can call out the BEST PLAYER on the team for having mediocre or less than great abilities and yall let that slide without issue. I call out AC as mediocre and it's WWIII?

 

Hypocrisy?

 

You're free to do whatever you want...

 

Call out whoever you want.   But it’s not just WHAT you do, it’s also HOW you do it.   Make better arguments.   Make fair and reasonable arguments.

Use some facts and not just opinions over and over again.

 

The community is pretty fair about such things.   If you’re getting no traction and a fair amount of blow back perhaps it’s you and not everyone else....

 

Just some food for thought.