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Colts Should Trade for Khalil Mack (UPDATE: traded to Chicago)

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shasta519 Ring of Honor

shasta519

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On 8/24/2018 at 3:37 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Im not offering my opinion.   I’m teminding people of Ballard’s opinion.

 

That he wasn’t going to bring in any high priced guys until he had mostly rebuilt the roster and changed the culture.

 

Could he pursue a trade for Mack?  Sure, he might.   I just don’t think it’s very likely.    Apparently,  that isn’t a very popular with with many around here.

 

 

I don't think it's realistic at all. Of course he called to check in...like every other GM. But he's not giving OAK the picks it would take AND he probably wouldn't give Mack the money either.

 

The only reason the Colts are mentioned here...is because they have draft capital and cap space. Any GM worth a damn is posturing about their interest to drive up the price.

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NewColtsFan
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No, we should not pursue Mack at this time.    He will cost the Colts high draft picks that Ballard is not prepared to trade yet.   The Colts are NOT one great player away from being a conte

Superman
Superman

The conversation starts with two first rounders. It ends with a new contract for more than $20m/year.   Like NCF said, right guy, wrong time. Hard pass.

Superman
Superman

The draft picks it would presumably take to get him are the problem. If he were a free agent, I'd put my bid in with no regard for the guys we already have He's better than all of them, and it's not e

richard pallo Ring of Honor

richard pallo

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Just read an article on BR where they interviewed a couple of GM's and they asked them what they thought it would take to get him.  They quantified it by saying it depends on what the Raiders thought the acquiring teams draft position could be.  That said they thought a 1st. and a 2nd. could get it done.  That's right in our wheelhouse considering our extra 2nd.  

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BProland85 Ring of Honor

BProland85

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36 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Just read an article on BR where they interviewed a couple of GM's and they asked them what they thought it would take to get him.  They quantified it by saying it depends on what the Raiders thought the acquiring teams draft position could be.  That said they thought a 1st. and a 2nd. could get it done.  That's right in our wheelhouse considering our extra 2nd.  

 

If I were Ballard I’d start by offering our 2019 2nd and 2020 2nd and negotiate from there. 

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Superman Ring of Honor

Superman

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On 8/25/2018 at 11:50 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Super....

 

You have a good number of high quality posts in this thread.   No one would expect anything different.

 

But in my opinion, this post is not one if them.

 

1.   Gruden has already publicly insulted Mack by saying last year’s defense was poor WITH Mack...    he didn’t finish, but the implication was clear.   Mack didn’t Mack that much if a difference and Gruden is not all that impressed.    

 

As as best I can tell that had Raiders watchers raising red flags immediately.

 

2.   Both the Raiders and Mack’s camp say Gruden has still not reached out to Mack.   They still haven’t talked.    If that has changed in the last few weeks, I haven’t seen it.

 

These are bad signs.   At best, Gruden is carrying water for Mark Davis and covering for his boss.   At worst he’s alienating himself from his best defensive player.   This does not add up.

 

Gruden’s behavior is highly questionable.   Forget the long haul, Gruden thinks he can win now.   His ego thinks that.    But, if anything, his long contract gives him incentive to trade Mack for a boat load of picks.  He’s got time to bring them along.

 

I’m not predicting a trade.   But I don’t know what JG is doing.   But I think his behavior gives people here all the ammunition the need to justify the belief that Gruden might do the unthinkable and indeed trade Gruden.

 

I think all of this is overblown. Everyone knows Mack's value to the Raiders. And more recently, Gruden has spoken about Mack in very complimentary ways, so the idea that he doesn't want to keep him becomes more and more specious. 

 

As for whether they've spoken, there are conflicting reports. End of the day, this is Reggie McKenzie's job. Whether Gruden and Mack had talked as of the start of camp isn't that critical.

 

I do think trading Mack ia unthinkable, but I said earlier everyone has a price. And I think the conversation for Mack starts with two firsts. I think we agree the Raiders aren't going to just get rid of him just because Gruden might be irritated that he's holding out. And that doesn't really depend on whether Gruden's behavior is questionable or not. 

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richard pallo Ring of Honor

richard pallo

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This is Ballard's chance to fill the biggest need on this team.  He has extra picks, money and player's at his disposal.  He says trades should always be a win win for both sides.  This is his chance to walk the walk not just talk the talk.  You are lucky if half of your draft class pans out.  A trade for Mack would not destroy our draft strategy.  Those picks still need to be contributors but the gain from having Mack on our roster eliminates the chance from having those picks you give up from being busts as well.  A sure thing for a roll of the dice on a few picks.  Ballard has to decide.  Put complete trust in your picks or hedge your choices with a young proven difference maker.  He might not get an opportunity like this again. 

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crazycolt1 Ring of Honor

crazycolt1

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4 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Gruden has, at minimum, heavy influence in personnel.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/raiders/mark-davis-addresses-reggie-mckenzies-different-role-jon-gruden-aboard

 

I have no doubt that Gruden will want a lot of players but it will be up to McKenzie to keep the cap in order and to make the contracts work. It is one thing for a head coach to say who he wants and another thing to make it work.

McKenzie is the one who has built the Raiders into respectability and I don't think Davis will rock that boat.

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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16 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have no doubt that Gruden will want a lot of players but it will be up to McKenzie to keep the cap in order and to make the contracts work. It is one thing for a head coach to say who he wants and another thing to make it work.

McKenzie is the one who has built the Raiders into respectability and I don't think Davis will rock that boat.

 

The boat got rocked...

 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Raiders-Recent-Moves-Show-Gruden-is-in-Charge-481510551.html

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indyagent17 Hall of Famer

indyagent17

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On 8/23/2018 at 6:34 PM, NewColtsFan said:

No, we should not pursue Mack at this time.    He will cost the Colts high draft picks that Ballard is not prepared to trade yet.

 

The Colts are NOT one great player away from being a contender.   We are a number of great players away.

 

Right guy,  wrong time.

 

ok imagine this, we give up our #1 and one of second round picks. He is the DPOY and I guarantee you will not find one like him. He is a difference maker RIGHT now and we need one. we could front load his contract so future years will not be so difficult.  He is worth a number one for sure!

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jskinnz Team Captain

jskinnz

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On 8/25/2018 at 12:09 PM, richard pallo said:

Gruden is reportedly not happy with his backup QB.  Had a bad outing yesterday.  Told a reporter when asked he said he  "doesn't know" if he has a backup QB.  The report said he will probably start looking for one.  Interesting unexpected development I thought. 

 

Methinks you are making a connection that is not there.

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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On 8/27/2018 at 9:57 AM, BProland85 said:

 

If I were Ballard I’d start by offering our 2019 2nd and 2020 2nd and negotiate from there. 

 

I just heard Pat Kirwan (who used to negotiate deals, for the Jets I believe) tell a caller if he were Raiders, he would ask to two #1's, and a starter.  And not just anyone's #1's (like NFC and AFC champs etc...) either.

 

He went on to say that most/all teams won't do that, and pay the man as well.  So He feels Raiders will play Mack for the last 9 games when he shows up week 8 (to get his year of service logged) and then possibly tag him a couple years.  Kirk cousins style.  We'll see.

 

He also said if the two sides were close (say an offer for 17 mil / year, player wants 19) then something could be worked out.  But if one side wants 22 million, and the other offering up only 15 mil...  well... there's nothing to talk about. Period.

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richard pallo

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5 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I just heard Pat Kirwan (who used to negotiate deals, for the Jets I believe) tell a caller if he were Raiders, he would ask to two #1's, and a starter.  And not just anyone's #1's (like NFC and AFC champs etc...) either.

 

He went on to say that most/all teams won't do that, and pay the man as well.  So He feels Raiders will play Mack for the last 9 games when he shows up week 8 (to get his year of service logged) and then possibly tag him a couple years.  Kirk cousins style.  We'll see.

 

He also said if the two sides were close (say an offer for 17 mil / year, player wants 19) then something could be worked out.  But if one side wants 22 million, and the other offering up only 15 mil...  well... there's nothing to talk about. Period.

Aaron Donald is going to set the bar too high for Oakland.  Once that deal goes down, and it could happen at any moment, I think the Raiders get real serious about trading Mack.

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Architects08 Practice Squad

Architects08

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Anyone see Pete Carrolls tweet from earlier today? Sorry, I dont know how to embed but it said "Song of the day goes out to the 12s". The link to the youtube video was the song "Return of the Mack". 

 

Seahawks trading for Mack? They could offer Earl Thomas and picks. It would be pretty cold to tease Hawks fans like that and not be trading for him. 

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NewColtsFan Ring of Honor

NewColtsFan

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18 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The boat got rocked...

 

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Raiders-Recent-Moves-Show-Gruden-is-in-Charge-481510551.html

 

Nice find!

 

And here's a similar story by Yahoo's Senior Football writer, Charles Robinson.    One of the top writers in the business.

 

And he paints a very dark picture.    More grim than most are even aware of.    And it has Gruden's finger prints all over it.  

 

Worth a few minutes of your time for a good and interesting read.....

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-raiders-khalil-mack-contract-stalemate-no-end-sight-053506892.html

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SteelCityColt Hall of Famer

SteelCityColt

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On 8/24/2018 at 5:23 PM, csmopar said:

man i don't know.  I'm not sold on Mack.  What if we trade that for him, he refuses to extend and then we're forced to Tag him or let him go?  I just don't like the idea of trading for a player in their contract year.

 

IMO there might be a nod and wink clause the trade only happens once they know they have a deal for an extension. Thinking JG trade. 

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richard pallo

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  Rogers just got a huge deal.  Pretty hard for them to afford Mack now.  Darnold's deal is going to be huge as well.  Consequently Mack's expected deal is going to be too rich for the Raiders.  Jet's are starting a rookie QB.  It makes no sense for them to be in on Mack either. Too early.  I think we are the frontrunner now and I just can't see Ballard passing on this rare opportunity.  I think he will strike when the time is right.  And I don't think it's a long way off. 

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MikeCurtis Ring of Honor

MikeCurtis

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48 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

   I think we are the frontrunner now and I just can't see Ballard passing on this rare opportunity.  I think he will strike when the time is right.  And I don't think it's a long way off. 

I dont know that we are a front runner...... I would respectfully disagree

 

I think the Raiders hold the cards, and are not really that motivated 

 

I am sure that you have heard the term, " motivated seller"

 

In real estate, this is the seller that HAS to move (sell) now........

 

In these instances, the seller gives up some value for some immediate cash in the

immediate sale. This could because of a job loss or a divorce...... or any number of reasons

 

This is NOT the situation the Raiders are in

 

If anything, they will wait as long as possible, and accept only a crazy deal

 

Draft picks, help them next year.......

 

No one is getting a discount to pick up Mack..... at least not now

 

In all likelihood the demand will probably stay the same throughout this year

and before the draft for NEXT year

 

Mack, like the vast majority of players...... will hold out, but come in for the check.......

Its not the biggest, but its still over $10 mil....

 

How many times have you seen a player, not play to the team that owns the contract?

(Its almost never)

 

Please oh please..... lets NOT be the team that gives up too much to have it all now... . Let someone ELSE do the Hershal Walker trade......

 

Would love to have the guy...... there is just no motivation to trade him...... for a something reasonable.......like A first round pick..... IMHO

 

Deano

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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PrincetonTiger

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11 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I dont know that we are a front runner

 

I think the Raiders hold the cards, and are not really that motivated 

 

I am sure that you have heard the term, " motivated seller"

 

In real estate, this is the seller that HAS to move (sell) now........

 

In these instances, the seller gives up some value for some immediate cash in the

immediate sale. This could because of a job loss or a divorce...... or any number of reasons

 

This is NOT the situation the Raiders are in

 

If anything, they will wait as long as possible, and accept only a crazy deal

 

Draft picks, help them next year.......

 

No one is getting a discount to pick up Mack..... at least not now

 

In all likelihood the demand will probably stay the same throughout this year

and before the draft for NEXT year

 

Mack, like the vast majority of players...... will hold out, but come in for the check.......

Its not the biggest, but its still over $10 mil....

 

How many times have you seen a player, not play to the team that owns the contract?

(Its almost never)

 

Please oh please..... lets NOT be the team that gives up too much to have it all now... . Let someone ELSE do the Hershal Walker trade......

 

Would love to have the guy...... there is just no motivation to trade him..... IMHO

 

Deano

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the article I read the Colts aren’t even on the radar

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ColtsBlueFL Team Captain

ColtsBlueFL

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1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

  Rogers just got a huge deal.  Pretty hard for them to afford Mack now.  Darnold's deal is going to be huge as well.  Consequently Mack's expected deal is going to be too rich for the Raiders.  Jet's are starting a rookie QB.  It makes no sense for them to be in on Mack either. Too early.  I think we are the frontrunner now and I just can't see Ballard passing on this rare opportunity.  I think he will strike when the time is right.  And I don't think it's a long way off. 

 

My guess is there is a 94.5% chance Mack is not traded.  Not just the Colts, but to anybody.

 

Then Mack will arrive on the Raiders team sometime after week 2 or 3 and forfeiting $8 hundred thousand per game(so losing another 1.6 or 2.4 million dollars to add to the 1.2 million in pre-season fines) and then play for Raiders the rest of 2018.

 

As Pat Kirwan says - 'Money always wins'.

 

Then, unless the Raiders get what they want from someone in the upcoming off season, they can just Franchise tag him for 2019.  Then do it again in 2020.  Then, if allowed (and I think they can) transition tag him for 2021.

 

Doing this allows Raiders to keep Mack for the next 4 years and he can't do anything about it. No long term guaranteed money was spent, paying a salary at or below his asking price, and on a yearly basis that can be stopped at any year. The Club holds the leverage here, IMHO.

 

{insert discussion how teams abuse the franchise tag to hold elite players hostage here} -

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richard pallo

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According to Tom Pellisoro of NFL network the Raiders are looking for two 1st.rd. picks.  A bunch of teams have called in the last few days and no one is willing to give two No.1's.  It's been suggested that if the Raiders lower their price to a 1st. and a 3rd. it would get done.  For now the Raiders are holding firm.  But things can change quickly.  Especially when Donald's contract is announced.  If they lower their price I think we will finally have our ER.  Ballard can't say no to a 1st. and a 2nd. or 3rd.  No way. 

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richard pallo

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NFL Networks Tom Pelissero is reporting the Raiders are asking for two No.1's and teams are not interested.  They have received a few calls in the last couple of days and teams don't want to go that high.  Raiders are holding firm right now but if they lower their price to a suggested 1st. or 3rd. it would get done.  I can see Ballard going for a 1st. and 3rd. or 1st. and a 2nd.  This trade is looking more promising with each passing day and update.

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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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25 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

According to Tom Pellisoro of NFL network the Raiders are looking for two 1st.rd. picks.  A bunch of teams have called in the last few days and no one is willing to give two No.1's.  It's been suggested that if the Raiders lower their price to a 1st. and a 3rd. it would get done.  For now the Raiders are holding firm.  But things can change quickly.  Especially when Donald's contract is announced.  If they lower their price I think we will finally have our ER.  Ballard can't say no to a 1st. and a 2nd. or 3rd.  No way. 

Sure he can.   Especially when it comes along with 100 million dollar contract

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