Colts Should Trade for Khalil Mack (UPDATE: traded to Chicago)

[Luck2Hilton4TD]

Colts Should Pursue a Trade for Raiders Pass Rusher Khalil Mack

 

http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/colts-pursue-raiders-pass-rusher-khalil-mack/

 

 

[Matabix]

Yea

[Defjamz26]

I can’t imagine the asking price being cheap. It’s going to start with a 1st (if not multiple) rounder. The Colts aren’t in win now mode either, and he’s 27. 30 is right around the corner. Don’t see how’d it be beneficial.

[BleedBlu8792]

1 minute ago, Defjamz26 said:

I can’t imagine the asking price being cheap. It’s going to start with a 1st (if not multiple) rounder. The Colts aren’t in win now mode either, and he’s 27. 30 is right around the corner. Don’t see how’d it be beneficial.

 

Huh? You don't see how adding a top tier defensive player would be beneficial? The Colts have plenty of capital and no high profile contracts for at least another 2 years. Why would you not want to start strengthening the team now, when you have everything at your disposal to make it happen. 

[NewColtsFan]

No, we should not pursue Mack at this time.    He will cost the Colts high draft picks that Ballard is not prepared to trade yet.

 

The Colts are NOT one great player away from being a contender.   We are a number of great players away.

 

Right guy,  wrong time.

 

[#12.]

When this came up previously, I thought, I can't see Ballard doing it. Then I remembered him saying that elite pass rushers never get out of the building.  The implication being, if you have a chance to land one, you would have to take it.

[IinD]

I'd be all in if it didn't involve him getting a monster contract in the 'highest paid' category along with draft picks.

 

I wouldn't be mad if they did, but as @NewColtsFan said. Yes on the player, no on the timing.

 

 

[Fluke_33]

Would it mean giving up on Basham and Turay?   I love Mack but want to see what these guys can do.  Signing Mack would stunt that growth I think.  

[Trace Pyott]

Everyone says we are more than one player away from competing so we should hold off but it's rare that we acquire quality playmakers in bunches, usually it's one at a time. So let's say we are 4 playmakers from competing......adding Mack gets us one less player closer so I'm all about adding him unless the price is too costly (multiple 1st rd picks or a 1 and 2)  anything less and I say let's do it!

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would trade for him, getting him would be like getting a Top 5 pick in the Draft and he's only 27 years old/established. He gets 10 Sacks a season in his sleep. 

[Superman]

The conversation starts with two first rounders. It ends with a new contract for more than $20m/year.

 

Like NCF said, right guy, wrong time. Hard pass.

[RollerColt]

He'd be a great addition, but would Oakland be listening? Would Ballard be willing? 

 

The article is nice and all, but it's just an opinion article. So while I'd love to see Mack in a Colts uniform, yeah it's probably not happening... 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

The conversation starts with two first rounders. It ends with a new contract for more than $20m/year.

 

Like NCF said, right guy, wrong time. Hard pass.

I agree

    This is not fantasy or Madden

[richard pallo]

Ballard is smart enough to know that this is his chance, most likely his last chance,  to land one of the young premier ER's in the league.  He knows we have the cap and the ammunition now.  He knows we likely won't be drafting low again and will not have a chance to get one in the draft.  He knows there is no guarantee the pick would even work out if he did draft one.  This is as close to a sure thing as there is.  Extra picks to trade and an extra pick for Brissett down the road and we acquire one of the best young players in the league in his prime at our biggest position of need.  The article says he is now available in trade.  This is a no brainer.  That's why there are at least 12 teams interested.  All those GM's realize an opportunity like this doesn't come around every day.  Ballard knows it too. 

[jvan1973]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Ballard is smart enough to know that this is his chance, most likely his last chance,  to land one of the young premier ER's in the league.  He knows we have the cap and the ammunition now.  He knows we likely won't be drafting low again and will not have a chance to get one in the draft.  He knows there is no guarantee the pick would even work out if he did draft one.  This is as close to a sure thing as there is.  Extra picks to trade and an extra pick for Brissett down the road and we acquire one of the best young players in the league in his prime at our biggest position of need.  The article says he is now available in trade.  This is a no brainer.  That's why there are at least 12 teams interested.  All those GM's realize an opportunity like this doesn't come around every day.  Ballard knows it too. 

 He isn't giving up 2 firsts and a 100 million dollar contract.   No one will.   If he was a free agent maybe,   but not multiple high draft picks as well.   Not gonna happen

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are all assuming it will take 2 1st's, it may but what if it doesn't? 

[WoolMagnet]

Basham seems to be coming on a lil lately, Simon has exceed expectations, and we still have Turay, who coaches seem high on.  I also expect Ballard to focus on LB and perhaps DE in next draft 

  I'm thinking Mack's cost outweighs his value to us at this point.

[Hoo-Hoo-Hoo-Hoosiers]

Assuming we are not positioned to win now, im more interested in FA edge rushers who will be available in ‘19 (and  ‘20).  Per bleacher report, there is slim to no chance that top guys like Mack and Demarcus Lawerence land on new teams, but 2nd teir rushers such as Trey Flowers, Carlos Dunlap, Cameron Wake, Muhammad Wilkerson, Dante Fowler Jr. and Dion Jordan are likely attainable.  Except for Wilkerson, id be ecstatic to see any in a colts uniform.

[richard pallo]

51 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We are all assuming it will take 2 1st's, it may but what if it doesn't? 

Exactly!  No one has any idea on what it will take.  Pure conjecture.

[Superman]

40 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

Basham seems to be coming on a lil lately, Simon has exceed expectations, and we still have Turay, who coaches seem high on.  I also expect Ballard to focus on LB and perhaps DE in next draft 

  I'm thinking Mack's cost outweighs his value to us at this point.

 

The draft picks it would presumably take to get him are the problem. If he were a free agent, I'd put my bid in with no regard for the guys we already have He's better than all of them, and it's not even close.

 

But we're still in the building stage. You don't give up prime picks when you're trying to build a good roster. The only time you even consider something like this is if you feel your window to contend is clearly open already.

[richard pallo]

40 minutes ago, Hoo-Hoo-Hoo-Hoosiers said:

Assuming we are not positioned to win now, im more interested in FA edge rushers who will be available in ‘19 (and  ‘20).  Per bleacher report, there is slim to no chance that top guys like Mack and Demarcus Lawerence land on new teams, but 2nd teir rushers such as Trey Flowers, Carlos Dunlap, Cameron Wake, Muhammad Wilkerson, Dante Fowler Jr. and Dion Jordan are likely attainable.  Except for Wilkerson, id be ecstatic to see any in a colts uniform.

Those 2nd. tier rushers are nothing to get excited about.  No top tier rushers ever get free.  Except possibly now.  We are a clear contender now that Luck is healthy.  Not a favorite but we  are a contender.  This is the time when you take advantage of the situation we are in.  Extra picks and cap space.  A perfect match.

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The draft picks it would presumably take to get him are the problem. If he were a free agent, I'd put my bid in with no regard for the guys we already have He's better than all of them, and it's not even close.

 

But we're still in the building stage. You don't give up prime picks when you're trying to build a good roster. The only time you even consider something like this is if you feel your window to contend is clearly open already.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DITTO!!   THIS!!    WHAT HE SAID!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Superman]

56 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We are all assuming it will take 2 1st's, it may but what if it doesn't? 

 

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Exactly!  No one has any idea on what it will take.  Pure conjecture.

 

There's a precedent, well established. When you trade for a playmaker in his prime, it always costs at least one first rounder, unless he has baggage or serious injury issues. Sometimes even then you get a first.

 

Percy Harvin -- Seattle sent Minnesota a 1st and 7th, plus a future 3rd, for a WR/RB hybrid who had never cracked 1,000 receiving yards.

 

Trent Richardson -- Indy sent Cleveland a 1st for a RB who had never cracked 1,000 rushing yards

 

Darrelle Revis -- Tampa sent NYJ a 1st and a future 4th for a corner coming off an ACL injury

 

Jimmy Graham -- Seattle sent New Orleans a 1st and a starting center for a TE and a 4th 

 

Jay Cutler -- Chicago sent a 1st and a 3rd, plus a future 1st, plus Kyle Orton to Denver for Cutler and a 5th

 

The last one is an outlier because it's a QB, but I included it because, IMO, elite pass rusher is the second most important position in pro football, so I could argue a player like Mack has a comparable value.

 

Either way, it's clear that playmakers in their prime don't come cheap in trades, unless there's a problem. Elite players at premium positions -- like Mack -- are going to cost at least a first, probably two firsts, and maybe more. If you don't want to give up a first, you probably have to give up a playmaker or solid starter of your own. 

 

This is not conjecture. It's established in recent history. Let's not act like you're going to get something for nothing. Khalil Mack is going into Year 5, he's a two time All Pro, a recent DPOY winner, and he's probably about to enter his prime. He wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the league, and he has a legitimate case. The Raiders aren't going to give him up without getting a massive haul in return.

 

I'd obviously be open to a conversation with the Raiders, but we already know what it's going to cost to get him. And that's why he's most likely not going to be traded. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

 

There's a precedent, well established. When you trade for a playmaker in his prime, it always costs at least one first rounder, unless he has baggage or serious injury issues. Sometimes even then you get a first.

 

Percy Harvin -- Seattle sent Minnesota a 1st and 7th, plus a future 3rd, for a WR/RB hybrid who had never cracked 1,000 receiving yards.

 

Trent Richardson -- Indy sent Cleveland a 1st for a RB who had never cracked 1,000 rushing yards

 

Darrelle Revis -- Tampa sent NYJ a 1st and a future 4th for a corner coming off an ACL injury

 

Jimmy Graham -- Seattle sent New Orleans a 1st and a starting center for a TE and a 4th 

 

Jay Cutler -- Chicago sent a 1st and a 3rd, plus a future 1st, plus Kyle Orton to Denver for Cutler and a 5th

 

The last one is an outlier because it's a QB, but I included it because, IMO, elite pass rusher is the second most important position in pro football, so I could argue a player like Mack has a comparable value.

 

Either way, it's clear that playmakers in their prime don't come cheap in trades, unless there's a problem. Elite players at premium positions -- like Mack -- are going to cost at least a first, probably two firsts, and maybe more. If you don't want to give up a first, you probably have to give up a playmaker or solid starter of your own. 

 

This is not conjecture. It's established in recent history. Let's not act like you're going to get something for nothing. Khalil Mack is going into Year 5, he's a two time All Pro, a recent DPOY winner, and he's probably about to enter his prime. He wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the league, and he has a legitimate case. The Raiders aren't going to give him up without getting a massive haul in return.

 

I'd obviously be open to a conversation with the Raiders, but we already know what it's going to cost to get him. And that's why he's most likely not going to be traded. 

I gave you a LIKE but I was playing devil's advocate with my Post. Gruden and the Raiders seem to be treating Mack like they don't care if he's there or not. 

[jameszeigler834]

3 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I can’t imagine the asking price being cheap. It’s going to start with a 1st (if not multiple) rounder. The Colts aren’t in win now mode either, and he’s 27. 30 is right around the corner. Don’t see how’d it be beneficial.

He could play atleast another 6-7 years and he is in his prime still but I would agree the asking price would be way too much to give up for 1 player.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I gave you a LIKE but I was playing devil's advocate with my Post. Gruden and the Raiders seem to be treating Mack like they don't care if he's there or not. 

 

I don't know if that's how they're treating him. I think they're playing hard ball because they have leverage. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Let's say you're the Raiders GM, your phone rings and it's me, the Colts GM, asking about Khalil Mack. What's your price?

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know if that's how they're treating him. I think they're playing hard ball because they have leverage. We'll see how it plays out.

 

Let's say you're the Raiders GM, your phone rings and it's me, the Colts GM, asking about Khalil Mack. What's your price?

What you said 2 1st Rounders in 2019 and 2020 and I don't disagree with you at all. Having said that what if the Raiders ask for a 1st in 2019 and 3rd Rounder in 2020 for example? I am just saying it's possible. That still isn't even a bad deal for the Raiders if Mack is unhappy and doesn't want to be there.

[braveheartcolt]

If you wait until you are 'nearly' great before trading for a 'great' player, you may never become 'great'. Go on, roll the dice lads.

[Defjamz26]

4 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? You don't see how adding a top tier defensive player would be beneficial? The Colts have plenty of capital and no high profile contracts for at least another 2 years. Why would you not want to start strengthening the team now, when you have everything at your disposal to make it happen. 

Because Khalil Mack isn’t going to turn a 4-12 team that lacks talent because of 5 years of awful drafting into a Super Bowl contender. Not to mention we have Luck, so you’d have two players with $100 million contracts on a rebuilding team, that can’t rebuild because you gave up two future 1st rounders (and possibly more). Not worth it in the long run.

 

And I’ll propose this to you. If the cards somehow fell our way and he was there, I’d much rather spend a 1st rounder on Nick Bosa who is younger and will be cost efficient for 4-5 years (during the rebuild), than mortgage my future for a guy who will cost a substantial amount of money and draft picks.

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Because Khalil Mack isn’t going to turn a 4-12 team that lacks talent because of 5 years of awful drafting into a Super Bowl contender. Not to mention we have Luck, so you’d have two players with $100 million contracts on a rebuilding team, that can’t rebuild because you gave up two future 1st rounders (and possibly more). Not worth it in the long run.

 

And I’ll propose this to you. If the cards somehow fell our way and he was there, I’d much rather spend a 1st rounder on Nick Bosa who is younger and will be cost efficient for 4-5 years (during the rebuild), than mortgage my future for a guy who will cost a substantial amount of money and draft picks.

Yet Von Miller almost singled handed won the Broncos the SB vs Cam and he dominated the Patriots (Brady) as well in the AFC Title Game, Mack is a similar player. 

[ProblChld32]

5 hours ago, Luck2Hilton4TD said:

Colts Should Pursue a Trade for Raiders Pass Rusher Khalil Mack

 

http://www.indianasportscoverage.com/colts-pursue-raiders-pass-rusher-khalil-mack/

 

 

 

They have a need at Safety I could see a possible trade of Geathers or Mathias and a 2nd for Mack. But the thing is Gruden just signed a major contract he would be a FOOL for trading his BEST defensive player. 

[Tsarquise]

I mean, you pay for quality. If edge rusher is to a defense as a QB is to an offense, then it is a good investment. And as our recent history shows, the draft isn't exactly a sure thing no matter how early you pick. 

 

The way everyone covets draft picks, it makes me wonder how so many people were so content with investing multiple high round picks in a low-impact, luxury position like a guard; it's a luxury due to us having no playmakers. 

 

With that being said, that is a lot for one player, no matter how good he is. It's possible they end up getting high draft picks again, and the opportunity to pick some impact players for rookie deals. 

[#12.]

Two different questions:

 

Would you do it?

 

Do you think Ballard might do it?

 

I think he might.  If you have a franchise QB, you're never that far away in the NFL.  What was this offense in 2016, the last year Luck played?  #6?  #7?  If you have something similar, then add an elite pass rusher to your defense, making it respectable, why couldn't you be a playoff team?  

 

Just say the Colts have a chance to do this, but decline, might you look back on it in 6-7 years and say it was a terrible decision?  Of course.  Everything is a crapshoot in the NFL.  You might get nothing out of the draft picks.

[Tsarquise]

1 hour ago, braveheartcolt said:

If you wait until you are 'nearly' great before trading for a 'great' player, you may never become 'great'. Go on, roll the dice lads.

Yeah, moves like this help build as well. Just comes with a price. 

[Lawrence Owen]

28 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

 

They have a need at Safety I could see a possible trade of Geathers or Mathias and a 2nd for Mack. But the thing is Gruden just signed a major contract he would be a FOOL for trading his BEST defensive player. 

Pretty sure GM's make the trades, not coaches.

As for Mack, would I want him in a Colts jersey? Sure.  But not for Top picks & top $$.  You'd probably only get that top tier player for 3-5 years due to him being 27.  (unless he's unusual like Suggs.)

You could spent 2/ 1st round picks and trade to the top spot of next years draft and have the pick of ANY player in that draft if you wanted and only pay rookie salary for the next 5 years. (with the option) I know that draft isn't guaranteed, But neither is getting Mack.  the history of the NFL is littered with trades for top players in their prime, only to see them play horribly on their new team.  For every Reggie White, or Dion Sanders, there is a Nnamdi Asomugha, or Albert Hanesworth.

[#12.]

Did i miss this somewhere?  LaCanfora says Colts are one of four teams in on Mack:

 

https://dawindycity.com/2018/08/23/chicago-bears-rumors-interested-mack/

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Never happen.

If there were a 1,000 parallel earths(like in old tv show Sliders) Ballard and colts would never trade for Mack.

Not in any of them. Lol

[Goatface Killah]

5 hours ago, Superman said:

 

The draft picks it would presumably take to get him are the problem. If he were a free agent, I'd put my bid in with no regard for the guys we already have He's better than all of them, and it's not even close.

 

But we're still in the building stage. You don't give up prime picks when you're trying to build a good roster. The only time you even consider something like this is if you feel your window to contend is clearly open already.

Let me play devils advocate here, I would normally agree with you, but not with Mack.

 

.....at what point is it strictly about finding difference makers? Because we could potentially aquire him without completely stripping ourselves of picks. We are not really gonna be short of picks if we trade for him, we have 2 second rounders next year and Brissett to potentially add another high pick, if needed. 

 

I feel like having a core of Mack, Leonard and Hooker to build around on defense would be pretty damn good and might be just a corner away from being an elite defense. He is exactly what we are missing. He could play the middle on 1st down and slide outside on passing downs.

 

 

There is zero chance we ever get a guy like Khalil Mack without making a trade for them. They just dont hit FA, and they go top 5 in the draft every year. 

 

Isn't it about turning your picks into players? I would trade 2 pork chops for a boomerang steak every day of the week. You arent just trading 2 picks for a player, you are also getting the centerpiece to the defense for the next 8-10 years. You are getting an ALL PRO talent.

 

[NewColtsFan]

8 minutes ago, GoatBeard said:

Let me play devils advocate here, I would normally agree with you, but not with Mack.

 

.....at what point is it strictly about finding difference makers? Because we could potentially aquire him without completely stripping ourselves of picks. We are not really gonna be short of picks if we trade for him, we have 2 second rounders next year and Brissett to potentially add another high pick, if needed. 

 

I feel like having a core of Mack, Leonard and Hooker to build around on defense would be pretty damn good and might be just a corner away from being an elite defense. He is exactly what we are missing. He could play the middle on 1st down and slide outside on passing downs.

 

 

There is zero chance we ever get a guy like Khalil Mack without making a trade for them. They just dont hit FA, and they go top 5 in the draft every year. 

 

Isn't it about turning your picks into players? I would trade 2 pork chops for a boomerang steak every day of the week. You arent just trading 2 picks for a player, you are also getting the centerpiece to the defense for the next 8-10 years. You are getting an ALL PRO talent.

 

Good thoughtful post.    And you made a compelling argument.

 

Here’s the one problem I see...    you think Mack has 8-10 prime years left.   I think that’s very generous.    I think a more reasonable projection would be 5-7 years.   And I think that difference is considerable.

 

Don't know if this difference would make you change your viewpoint,  but I wanted to float this and see what you thought...

 

[NorthernBlue]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yet Von Miller almost singled handed won the Broncos the SB vs Cam and he dominated the Patriots (Brady) as well in the AFC Title Game, Mack is a similar player. 

I love Von Miller, he's a beast, and absolutely was Denver's best player in 2015, but he did not almost single handedly win em the super bowl. That Denver defense was amazing, and while he was old, they still had Peyton Manning. 

 

Miller's still there and Denver isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Pass rushers are amazing and can win  you games, but they ain't QBs. They won't turn around a 4-12 team into a playoff contender without substantial help.