Pagano has to go?

[tommatte]

Chuck is not fraud he is  just what he is,,, not good for the Colts

[SLILLINGTON10]

Pagano dropped a real bombshell in his post game conference... games are 60 min, not 30 or 45 min. Good info out there. 

[Blueblood23]

Maybe if Mack didn't fumble, the Colts would have won. That play was the defining play today.

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Maybe if Mack didn't fumble, the Colts would have won. That play was the defining play today.

 

I felt like the tide was turning already, with the Colts offense failing on third down the previous two possessions. The game started to have that same feeling that's been all too familiar this season.

 

The fumble was a huge play, obviously. 

[P Son]

Patience, patience.   The end is a mere five weeks away.

Go Colts!

[John Waylon]

I don't even know anymore. I can't sit here and say that this team wouldn't be 8-3 with Luck playing. Other than the Rams and Jags game they've all come down to a short momentum swing. 

 

Look, I like Brisett, but the guy has 0 clutch. He's easily rattled, and easily confused. When the game gets critical he %s the bed and doesn't step up and make plays. 

 

Is the play calling bad?

 

Yes. Absolutely. 

 

Is the gameplanning bad?

 

A lot of the times, yes. 

 

Are the in-game adjustments bad?

 

What in-game adjustments?

 

But we've still been close to winning a lot of these games, and it stands to reason that missing Luck is the main reason for that. 

 

These late game meltdowns are as much the offense just shutting down as they are defensive failures. 

 

Luck is the counterweight to that. 

 

I don't want to sit here and defend Pagano in any way, but it's certainly worth bearing in mind that this team is just a #12 away from likely being 8-3 or 7-4. 

[a06cc]

We have 5 weeks to wait. I’m with others about not even waiting the 5. Playoff hopes are out the window if we lose one more. I’m being optimistic at this point to be supportive. 

[Defjamz26]

Pagano needs to go but they should show Monachino the door immediately. The inability of the Colts to stop outside runs was ridiculous. 

[jvan1973]

4 hours ago, deedub75 said:

 

He didn’t lie. He greatly embellished though. 

How so?

[Superman]

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

I don't want to sit here and defend Pagano in any way, but it's certainly worth bearing in mind that this team is just a #12 away from likely being 8-3 or 7-4. 

 

... and then being stomped in the playoffs by a team with good coaching.

[oldunclemark]

Team plays hard for him....every week

[SLILLINGTON10]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

Team plays hard for him....every week

Couple weeks ago we basically watched the team mail it in against the jags and a lot of people were asking if he lost the team.

[WoolMagnet]

5 hours ago, John Waylon said:

I don't even know anymore. I can't sit here and say that this team wouldn't be 8-3 with Luck playing. Other than the Rams and Jags game they've all come down to a short momentum swing. 

 

Look, I like Brisett, but the guy has 0 clutch. He's easily rattled, and easily confused. When the game gets critical he %s the bed and doesn't step up and make plays. 

 

Is the play calling bad?

 

Yes. Absolutely. 

 

Is the gameplanning bad?

 

A lot of the times, yes. 

 

Are the in-game adjustments bad?

 

What in-game adjustments?

 

But we've still been close to winning a lot of these games, and it stands to reason that missing Luck is the main reason for that. 

 

These late game meltdowns are as much the offense just shutting down as they are defensive failures. 

 

Luck is the counterweight to that. 

 

I don't want to sit here and defend Pagano in any way, but it's certainly worth bearing in mind that this team is just a #12 away from likely being 8-3 or 7-4. 

The 8 sacks certainly didnt help.  I havent seen numbers on pressure, but our QB was under duress all day (like usual).  And i'm not convinced we'd be in any better shape with Luck. Maybe another win or two, but pressure is pressure, whether its Brissett, Luck, or even Brady for that matter.

in my mind, the biggest issues  are the porous OL and a worn out D late in games due to a lack of quality depth.  I expect both of these things to be addressed this offseason.  We'll get there (i hope).

[John Waylon]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

 

... and then being stomped in the playoffs by a team with good coaching.

 

I mean, that was kind of the norm in the Manning years, so I'm still not convinced it would be enough to make Irsay pull the trigger. 

 

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

The 8 sacks certainly didnt help.  I havent seen numbers on pressure, but our QB was under duress all day (like usual).  And i'm not convinced we'd be in any better shape with Luck. Maybe another win or two, but pressure is pressure, whether its Brissett, Luck, or even Brady for that matter.

in my mind, the biggest issues  are the porous OL and a worn out D late in games due to a lack of quality depth.  I expect both of these things to be addressed this offseason.  We'll get there (i hope).

 

It wasn't quite 8 actual sacks. Some of them were Jacoby trying to run and sliding down for a loss or no gain. He also has a very dull sense of when to get rid of it. I'm not saying Luck would be under less pressure, but he would handle it better. Like I said, the pressure gets to Brisett more. 

[WoolMagnet]

16 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

 

I mean, that was kind of the norm in the Manning years, so I'm still not convinced it would be enough to make Irsay pull the trigger. 

 

 

It wasn't quite 8 actual sacks. Some of them were Jacoby trying to run and sliding down for a loss or no gain. He also has a very dull sense of when to get rid of it. I'm not saying Luck would be under less pressure, but he would handle it better. Like I said, the pressure gets to Brisett more. 

Handle it better like he always has?  Seems to me that is exactly the reason Andrew is currently sitting out this year and why he missed past games.  8 sacks are 8 sacks.  If he doesnt slide, he's hit and sacked anyway.  More often than not, theres not even time to throw it away.  Ive seen andrew get just as rattled as Jacoby, but andrew gives a smile and an "aw shucks" look while Brissett has a different reaction.  At least Brissett isnt forcing the ball into interceptions as Andrew often did.  And no, i'm not saying Jacoby is better, rather that the pressure is the root of the problem for both QBs. I put more blame on longrr developing wr routes and lack of wr separation combined with bad OL and pressure than on our QBs. Jacoby had no training camp to learn offense and get familiar with his receivers.  He's trying to make decisions while still learning the offense while running for his life.  Where are the screens and draws? Give Brissett, or Luck for that matter, some time, and its a whole new ballgame:

in my humble opinion, anyway.

[2006Coltsbestever]

We are 3-8, I seriously doubt he is back. We are looking at 5-11 which will give us a high Draft pick and the firing of Chuck so many people in here can get up and dance . Hopefully Luck gets healthy as well if so we will be Good next season. Our Defense is already showing promise. Brissett is a Great backup so I would keep him for insurance. With a healthy Luck we will be able to finish games. If I am Ballard I draft all O.Lineman and Pass Rushers/LB's - If a RB is there in the 4th or 5th that looks intriguing than go for it because Mack isn't a 3 down back. I do think Mack will be Good and can be very productive if he has 10-15 carries a game.

[King Colt]

Not one post here pin points why they are not playing four quarters not saying I know why. To play so well against the run in the first half yesterday then disappear in the second half how do you explain why this group quits after one half be it the first or second? I rule out fatigue  because sometimes they wake up in the second half. So next year if everyone is healthy will this pattern continue? Management is paid to solve problems and yet this persistent problem goes untouched despite their efforts to correct. If this was a banking business they would have collapsed and made the front page of The Wall Street Journal, fact. Same is true if they were a learning institution, no one would graduate. Bottom line, this staff does not know how to get any players good or bad to play four quarters against any team.

[JColts72]

9 hours ago, SLILLINGTON10 said:

Pagano dropped a real bombshell in his post game conference... games are 60 min, not 30 or 45 min. Good info out there. 

How about coaching well for 60 minutes?  See so many comments here about the dread what if. That happens when the team stinks at 3 and 8.

[lollygagger8]

Hey look at the bright side, 

 

One week closer to Pagano going bye bye! 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

How about coaching well for 60 minutes?  See so many comments here about the dread what if. That happens when the team stinks at 3 and 8.

While I will agree we need a new Coach because I think we need a change in culture, not sure I blame Chuck for some of these losses. Brissett is a Great backup but looks like to me he doesn't have the IT factor like Luck has late in games to finish and get the win. We have 2 4th Qtr TD's all season, that is insane. I don't blame Chuck for that. I still believe if we had Luck we would be 7-4 or so but that is my opinion. Brissett has played well but freezes up in the 4th Qtr, that isn't Chuck's fault.

[throwing BBZ]

17 hours ago, dgouvion said:

It was Andrew Luck who carried Pagano on his back through those successful seasons and when Luck is playing injured or out Pagano's poor coaching ability manifest itself even more both offense and defense. There inability to finish games by blowing it in the second half or 4th quarter shows inability to scheme and adjust to his opponent. Time for a coaching overhaul.

 

Excellent use of the word manifest. Nice.

I hope you also noticed the important intellectual and athletic failures of his players at key moments in the time frame you mention. They were Obvious.

  That this coaching staff would remain beyond this season was always a long shot.

[SLILLINGTON10]

2 hours ago, JColts72 said:

How about coaching well for 60 minutes?  See so many comments here about the dread what if. That happens when the team stinks at 3 and 8.

Sound logic or... pags lobbies the NFL to shorten games to 30 or 45 mins, that puts us at like 9-2 and in the hunt for the 1 seed in the AFC. He doesnt look incompetent and probably keeps his job. 

[Superman]

8 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

I mean, that was kind of the norm in the Manning years, so I'm still not convinced it would be enough to make Irsay pull the trigger. 

 

Not really. Polian got rid of Mora four years into Manning's career, after a backsliding 2001 season. Pagano has already had six years, with three backsliding seasons in a row. 

 

Then Dungy's Colts went to the AFCCG in his second year, was one of the most dominant teams in the league pretty much from that point forward, including winning the SB in Year 5. While there were playoff disappointments, the team never fell apart or looked aimless like the Colts have looked the past two seasons. And in all, Dungy was only with the Colts for seven years.

 

By the way, I don't mean to get into all these minute details. My point is that the Colts don't have a good enough coaching staff to compete in the playoffs, IMO. I think there's plenty of evidence that Pagano and Co. are just not good enough. I don't think they're horrible, awful, incompetent, or any of the other hyperbolic expressions used around here so often. But they're clearly not good enough, IMO, and it's time to move one.

 

Quote

It wasn't quite 8 actual sacks. Some of them were Jacoby trying to run and sliding down for a loss or no gain. He also has a very dull sense of when to get rid of it. I'm not saying Luck would be under less pressure, but he would handle it better. Like I said, the pressure gets to Brisett more. 

 

I agree with all of this, but there was still a ton of pressure. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

This AGAIN REALLY!!!  The Players lost this game the coaching was fine!! Players need to do there jobs and not make mistakes!! Who ever thinks coaching lost this game is high!!

[Jules]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:51 PM, John Waylon said:

I don't even know anymore. I can't sit here and say that this team wouldn't be 8-3 with Luck playing. Other than the Rams and Jags game they've all come down to a short momentum swing. 

 

Look, I like Brisett, but the guy has 0 clutch. He's easily rattled, and easily confused. When the game gets critical he %s the bed and doesn't step up and make plays. 

 

Is the play calling bad?

 

Yes. Absolutely. 

 

Is the gameplanning bad?

 

A lot of the times, yes. 

 

Are the in-game adjustments bad?

 

What in-game adjustments?

 

But we've still been close to winning a lot of these games, and it stands to reason that missing Luck is the main reason for that. 

 

These late game meltdowns are as much the offense just shutting down as they are defensive failures. 

 

Luck is the counterweight to that. 

 

I don't want to sit here and defend Pagano in any way, but it's certainly worth bearing in mind that this team is just a #12 away from likely being 8-3 or 7-4. 

 

I actually have to agree with you here, I don't really know anymore either. And I kinda tuned out most of the noise. I follow Colts games but the post game ranting about Pagano gets tiresome after a while.

 

And you are right, with a healthy Luck we probably are doing very well this year.......we are not a total train wreck in all honesty.

 

 

17 hours ago, John Waylon said:

 

I mean, that was kind of the norm in the Manning years, so I'm still not convinced it would be enough to make Irsay pull the trigger. 

 

This too. Losing big games kinda became the norm here so yeah I agree that might not be enough for Irsay to want to pull the trigger. And with a healthy Luck we were actually OK in big games.......unless we say run into the Pats. But who the hell even beats the Patriots, Christ will you age already Brady.

 

So a lot depends on the health and future of our old #12 here too.

 

 

I always said I am okay with firing Pagano, but the problem is I don't want to replace him with something worse too. Since you CAN get worse.

[Peterk2011]

On 2017. 11. 27. at 6:31 AM, Superman said:

 

... and then being stomped in the playoffs by a team with good coaching.

 

The only team Pagano has ever lost a playoff game to, are the Patriots. On the road. Name one team, who's beaten the Patriots in Foxborough since Belichick too over the job there. (I can name one, but I highly doubt anyone would be ok with their HC here lol.) Anyway, if that'll be the measure for the new Colts HC - e.g. to beat the Patriots on the road in the playoffs -, then it will be a looong search process...

 

9 hours ago, Jules said:

I always said I am okay with firing Pagano, but the problem is I don't want to replace him with something worse too. Since you CAN get worse.

 

Exactly my thoughts. Pagano is a 0.600+ coach, who's been coaching a flawed team ever since he's arrived. There are worse. Much-much worse. So, yeah, I am okay too with firing Pagano. IF(!) we'll get someone better.

[DaColts85]

2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

The only team Pagano has ever lost a playoff game to, are the Patriots. On the road. Name one team, who's beaten the Patriots in Foxborough since Belichick too over the job there. (I can name one, but I highly doubt anyone would be ok with their HC here lol.) Anyway, if that'll be the measure for the new Colts HC - e.g. to beat the Patriots on the road in the playoffs -, then it will be a looong search process...

 

 

Exactly my thoughts. Pagano is a 0.600+ coach, who's been coaching a flawed team ever since he's arrived. There are worse. Much-much worse. So, yeah, I am okay too with firing Pagano. IF(!) we'll get someone better.

We lost to the Ravens in 2012 in the playoffs...

 

Patriots lost at home to the Ravens twice and the Jets while under BB.  So are you referring to John or Rex?

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

The only team Pagano has ever lost a playoff game to, are the Patriots. On the road. Name one team, who's beaten the Patriots in Foxborough since Belichick too over the job there. (I can name one, but I highly doubt anyone would be ok with their HC here lol.) Anyway, if that'll be the measure for the new Colts HC - e.g. to beat the Patriots on the road in the playoffs -, then it will be a looong search process...

 

Exactly my thoughts. Pagano is a 0.600+ coach, who's been coaching a flawed team ever since he's arrived. There are worse. Much-much worse. So, yeah, I am okay too with firing Pagano. IF(!) we'll get someone better.

 

He also lost to the Ravens in 2012. And then there are all these mediocre coaches that he's lost to in the regular season, where the Colts have more blowout losses (20+ points) in the last five plus seasons than any other team in the league. 

 

Every team expects any coach they hire to be good. No team can foretell the future. To me, there are two separate, distinct evaluations that need to be done, and you're conflating them. First, the question is whether Chuck Pagano is a good enough coach for the Colts to be a title contender. I'm convinced that he's not. Only after you reach that conclusion do you move on the second evaluation, which is regarding who the best available candidate is for the Colts moving forward. 

 

It would be a mistake to hold on to a coach you don't believe in just because you're afraid the next coach you hire might not be good enough. 

 

If you believe in Pagano as a title contending coach, that's a different conversation, but I've already given my thoughts. It's fine for us to disagree, but understand that my issue with Pagano is that I simply don't think he's good enough. 

[dgambill]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 9:16 PM, Superman said:

 

I felt like the tide was turning already, with the Colts offense failing on third down the previous two possessions. The game started to have that same feeling that's been all too familiar this season.

 

The fumble was a huge play, obviously. 

Yep the only team that chokes harder than this years Colts are the KC Chiefs....you can just tell Andy Reid thought the second half of the season was like the second half of any of his playoff games. Joking aside yes the momentum had shifted and the team needed someone to step up and make some plays to right the ship...it just didn't happen and the fumble capped it off.

[OLD FAN MAN]

On 11/26/2017 at 11:46 PM, Defjamz26 said:

Pagano needs to go but they should show Monachino the door immediately. The inability of the Colts to stop outside runs was ridiculous. 

stopping runs is a result of very poor talent

[RockThatBlue]

6 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

stopping runs is a result of very poor talent

The run D has actually been pretty solid this year. I don't think talent is too big of a problem on the d line.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

The run D has actually been pretty solid this year. I don't think talent is too big of a problem on the d line.

not the d-line we stop up the gut, its lbs cant stop the outside runs

[richard pallo]

8 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He also lost to the Ravens in 2012. And then there are all these mediocre coaches that he's lost to in the regular season, where the Colts have more blowout losses (20+ points) in the last five plus seasons than any other team in the league. 

 

Every team expects any coach they hire to be good. No team can foretell the future. To me, there are two separate, distinct evaluations that need to be done, and you're conflating them. First, the question is whether Chuck Pagano is a good enough coach for the Colts to be a title contender. I'm convinced that he's not. Only after you reach that conclusion do you move on the second evaluation, which is regarding who the best available candidate is for the Colts moving forward. 

 

It would be a mistake to hold on to a coach you don't believe in just because you're afraid the next coach you hire might not be good enough. 

 

If you believe in Pagano as a title contending coach, that's a different conversation, but I've already given my thoughts. It's fine for us to disagree, but understand that my issue with Pagano is that I simply don't think he's good enough. 

It's fine for us to disagree, but understand that my issue with Pagano is that I simply think he's good enough. 

[HectorRoberts]

I completely blame pagano! He needs to playing our guys to their strengths, put green in as a blitzer, stop sending sheard into coverage, get our oline on water boy duty! The patriots are not that talented of a team but they have a coach that knows how to use his players and how to manage the game. I wish chuck the best but I wish him gone too.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 12:31 AM, Superman said:

 

... and then being stomped in the playoffs by a team with good coaching.

So let me get this correct. Teams who get beat by the Pats in the playoffs suffer from bad coaching? You need a list?

[Defjamz26]

7 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

stopping runs is a result of very poor talent

No that’s coaching. The Titans ran it all game and we didn’t adjust to it. Monnachino should have schemed to stop it. 

[rockywoj]

On 2017-11-26 at 4:47 PM, IinD said:

Yeah, anything more then a 3 step drop and it becomes a jailbreak.

That Pagano presser the other day, with the Groundhog Day and hurricane stuff, that was just really difficult to watch.  Kind of embarrassing, like Pagano has lost his marbles.

 

2017 season = I have seen enough to comfortably say strike 3, you’re out.

[Mr.NotSoCreative]

On 11/26/2017 at 6:36 PM, Colts_Fan12 said:

He may not even get us a high pick 

They may get a high draft pick but they always seem to get someone who needs time develope or project player. We need immediate impact guys.

[rockywoj]

3 minutes ago, ND Irish said:

They may get a high draft pick but they always seem to get someone who needs time develope or project player. We need immediate impact guys.

Hooker was such a player, until he got injured. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

3 hours ago, ND Irish said:

They may get a high draft pick but they always seem to get someone who needs time develope or project player. We need immediate impact guys.

i concur