Alfredo Roberts, Mike Gillhamer, and Roy Anderson fired

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Yeah lowery had one against tennesse in week 3 I think....DQ pick six against the falcons

 

Remember DQ's. I'll have to go back to find Lowery's....

[Superman]

As for Roberts, it's likely that Chud has a guy he wants.

[Gavin]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

Since we're talking about secondary coaches, did any of of our safeties (or linebackers, for that matter) have any interceptions this year that weren't first tipped in the air?

D'Qwell Jackson had a pick 6 in Atlanta that was not tipped that tied the game

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, schwamm said:

I totally agree he looked phenomenal his first year.  I am not going to go thru old game film, but it has impressed me that he's had several unfortunate and untimely drops in the last two years.  He has also looked slow and out of place more often than not, IMO.

 

I want him to rediscover the DA of 2012, but let's not mistake the talent shown that year for a guarantee it'll ever be seen from him again.  It is very possible the injuries may have lowered his ceiling.

Could've drafted C Ben Jones, T Donald Stephenson, G Brandon Brooks, or T Bobby Massie instead of DA that year.

 

Edit:  Not sure I know why we're talking about offense now....

[JColts72]

1 hour ago, jet1968 said:

The offensive line coach is still on the payroll?

Maybe Jim will give him a 4 year extension too for stability.

[ColtsLegacy]

18 minutes ago, schwamm said:

I totally agree he looked phenomenal his first year.  I am not going to go thru old game film, but it has impressed me that he's had several unfortunate and untimely drops in the last two years.  He has also looked slow and out of place more often than not, IMO.

 

I want him to rediscover the DA of 2012, but let's not mistake the talent shown that year for a guarantee it'll ever be seen from him again.  It is very possible the injuries may have lowered his ceiling.

 

In limited targets/usage last year he had 8 TDs (following his big injury). He's a young guy who, from all signs, takes excellent care of his body in a time where medical science heals up the most gruesome of injuries. So, I don't buy that he's lost his edge, at least not near to this degree.

[ColtsLegacy]

41 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Could've drafted C Ben Jones, T Donald Stephenson, G Brandon Brooks, or T Bobby Massie instead of DA that year.

 

Edit:  Not sure I know why we're talking about offense now....

 

We're talking about this because the TE coach was fired. The first name in the topic's title.

 

Dwayne Allen was a much better choice than any of those guys. He got unlucky with a big injury and then the crappy new OC misused him. And no one likes the "hindsight is 20/20, we should have taken so and so" crap.

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Joe Gilbert would have been first on my list, but I'm not running the show...

 

Considering how the Oline has played this year I'm surprised it has not happened.

 

Also, even though I like some of what the special teams coach has done, there have been some big screw ups on special teams.

[rockywoj]

2 hours ago, Derakynn said:

Yeah, not sure I understand that one. The TEs have been great most of the time. But I'm just some random fan. 

 

I feel as though the TEs have very much under performed.   Especially Fleener.  (To be fair, Doyle has probably over performed).  Fact is, though, TEs have been mostly a non factor, certainly not as impactful as most of us expected since 2012.

[SteelDragon]

I'm guessing yesterday's meeting involved Irsay asking Pagano, "How would you fix this? " and Irsay liked his answer.  

Maybe the new staff will be Pagano's guys.

Next up,  I guess we'll find out which players aren't of Pagano's liking.

If Pagano has more pull within the organization, it could be what this team needs.  I hope so. 

I didn't agree with keeping Grigs or Pags, but I'm still going to root for these guys to succeed. 

 

 

 

[cbear]

My guess is that this type of season revealed a lot about everyone, coaches included.  How did they handle the adversity?  That may be a factor (besides player performance of course).

[JH8788]

4 hours ago, rockywoj said:

 

I feel as though the TEs have very much under performed.   Especially Fleener.  (To be fair, Doyle has probably over performed).  Fact is, though, TEs have been mostly a non factor, certainly not as impactful as most of us expected since 2012.

They don't get the damn ball, that's why they're a non factor. It's beyond criminal that DA socred opening day vs Buffalo & never saw the endzone the rest of the season. It's also sad that Coby just had his best game of the season with 2 QBs that were signed on 2 hours notice. Ain't no way around it, for this offense to take off, Andrew has to do a better job of getting them the ball & they're FAs so it's no guarantee either Coby or DA will be back next year. 

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, coltsfansince65 said:

Strength & conditioning coach next?

 

6 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

B-S-. Allen was one of the best TEs in the league in his rookie year. And, no, that's not hyperbole.

 

When was he ever unreliable at crucial times? When was he ever used in a crucial time? Hell, when was he ever used?

 

Injuries were an issues but he played in ~85% of the games the past two seasons.

I seem to recall a couple of easy drops at crucial times from Allen this  season. When ever Fleener does that this forum blows up on him so why does Allen get a pass?

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

I'm guessing yesterday's meeting involved Irsay asking Pagano, "How would you fix this? " and Irsay liked his answer.  

Maybe the new staff will be Pagano's guys.

Next up,  I guess we'll find out which players aren't of Pagano's liking.

If Pagano has more pull within the organization, it could be what this team needs.  I hope so. 

I didn't agree with keeping Grigs or Pags, but I'm still going to root for these guys to succeed. 

 

 

 

I had mixed feelings on Grigson but it comes as no surprise to me that both Chuck and Ryan are resigned. You said a key thing also. You are still going to root for success. That is the best attitude to take for all who are Colt fans at this point. This may or may not have gone like you (or anyone else) wanted them to but it is what it is. No need to be negative because we never really know how things will turn out. This season has shown how quick things can change, good or bad.

[Dark Superman]

I'm just glad we're making changes.. Hopefully a new TE coach will mean Dwayne Allen might come back.

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

We're talking about this because the TE coach was fired. The first name in the topic's title.

 

Dwayne Allen was a much better choice than any of those guys. He got unlucky with a big injury and then the crappy new OC misused him. And no one likes the "hindsight is 20/20, we should have taken so and so" crap.

Oline was probably more of a priority then as it is now, remember Satele, McGlynn, Justice?..and we just took a TE in Fleener the pick before.  Hindsight is always 20/20, but in all of the hindsight scenarios and criticisms, nobody ever brings up the DA pick and how we could've had a quality starter at an oline position of  need for three years.

[jszfunk]

11 hours ago, will426 said:

But not used this year  so not so great

Fleenor is average at best..cant block or break a tackle. They would be wise to let him go and keep Allen and Doyle.

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I had mixed feelings on Grigson but it comes as no surprise to me that both Chuck and Ryan are resigned. You said a key thing also. You are still going to root for success. That is the best attitude to take for all who are Colt fans at this point. This may or may not have gone like you (or anyone else) wanted them to but it is what it is. No need to be negative because we never really know how things will turn out. This season has shown how quick things can change, good or bad.

I want this to go well also. I'm not a large fan of Pagano but I would rather these guys take off and make this team a super bowl team now as opposed to me saying in 2 years or so, see, I told you we should have changed coaching staff. All I want is for this team to succeed and Chuck and Grigson are running it so they are my guys to succeed. If you're a fan of the team hoping they fail, why do you watch the team?

[will426]

45 minutes ago, jszfunk said:

Fleenor is average at best..cant block or break a tackle. They would be wise to let him go and keep Allen and Doyle.

Lol  being wise would be to keep fleener and Doyle. Fleener wasn't brought here for his blocking ability and he isn't utilized properly in te passing game. Allen needs to go because all he can do is block he's been drop prone in clutch situations and he's been a liability on he field to stay healthy. That's like deciding to keep an Ahmad Bradshaw over a non injure prone AP for your nfl season 

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm surprised nothing about the OL coaches is being done. Although, I think we all agree that we need better linemen, regardless.

Agreed. I just honestly thought that seeing 5 QBs play for the Colts would have meant Gilbert would be the first to go.

 

Also surprised that the strength and conditioning coach didn't get let go.

[lollygagger8]

It's not the coaches fault Toler sucked. 

 

That said, as long as the O-Line coach is next, I'm ok with these changes. 

[James]

1 hour ago, jszfunk said:

Fleenor is average at best..cant block or break a tackle. They would be wise to let him go and keep Allen and Doyle.

 

His name is Fleener.

[pgt_rob]

2 hours ago, jszfunk said:

Fleenor is average at best..cant block or break a tackle. They would be wise to let him go and keep Allen and Doyle.

 

So let's keep a guy who puts himself on IR every year. Same scenario with bringing Ahmad Bradshaw back. It's only a matter of time.

[jet1968]

1 hour ago, lollygagger8 said:

It's not the coaches fault Toler sucked. 

 

That said, as long as the O-Line coach is next, I'm ok with these changes. 

Toler chases receivers around the field instead of covering them.

The O-line coach would have been gone about 2 minutes after the big meeting with Grigson, Irsay, and Pagano if it was my call.

[Mr. Irrelevant]

1 minute ago, jet1968 said:

Toler chases receivers around the field instead of covering them.

LOL, that is a great way to put it!

[RockThatBlue]

3 hours ago, jszfunk said:

Fleenor is average at best..cant block or break a tackle. They would be wise to let him go and keep Allen and Doyle.

"Fleener can't block" is one of the biggest myths on this forum. I do agree that he for whatever reason never breaks a tackle, but he is a serviceable blocker. He's a lot better at it than his rookie year. Don't know how people can't see that he has improved his blocking. 

[Buddy Lee]

if we were all honest we would know that Chuck isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. He can coach up DBs. He has the players behind him entirely. However, he couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag. He needs help! He needs an OC and a DC that he doesn't override. I don't know that there are any good ones available, but Chuck needs them desperately. He is a glorified cheerleader.

[Larry Horseman]

Anyone else wonder if these guys were the leaks/sources? Media obviously won't go there but it popped in my mind...

[throwing BBZ]

7 hours ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I'm just glad we're making changes.. Hopefully a new TE coach will mean Dwayne Allen might come back.

 

 Ya, it`s all about the TE Coach! chuckle

[Superman]

5 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

Agreed. I just honestly thought that seeing 5 QBs play for the Colts would have meant Gilbert would be the first to go.

 

Also surprised that the strength and conditioning coach didn't get let go.

 

I don't think it's the OLs fault that the QBs got hurt. The line didn't play well, but Luck's injuries were a result of some reckless play, Hasselbeck's injuries were the result of him not being able to stretch the field, which allowed defenses to be more aggressive up front. And Whitehurst pulled a hammy, which has nothing to do with protection. I think the OL coaches have been deficien, but I don't blame them for the injuries.

 

And the S&C coach isn't to blame for player injuries, either. As a matter of fact, aside from the QBs, we didn't get hit with a lot of injuries. The players who did get hurt took bad contact, and that's no one's fault. Injuries happen in football. 

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

if we were all honest we would know that Chuck isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. He can coach up DBs. He has the players behind him entirely. However, he couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag. He needs help! He needs an OC and a DC that he doesn't override. I don't know that there are any good ones available, but Chuck needs them desperately. He is a glorified cheerleader.

 

poppycock

[rockywoj]

I miss Howard Mudd.

 

I wonder if Jeff Saturday has OL coaching aspirations?  How cool would it be to have Saturday coaching the OL and Peyton Manning onboard as QB coach!

[Defjamz26]

47 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think it's the OLs fault that the QBs got hurt. The line didn't play well, but Luck's injuries were a result of some reckless play, Hasselbeck's injuries were the result of him not being able to stretch the field, which allowed defenses to be more aggressive up front. And Whitehurst pulled a hammy, which has nothing to do with protection. I think the OL coaches have been deficien, but I don't blame them for the injuries.

 

And the S&C coach isn't to blame for player injuries, either. As a matter of fact, aside from the QBs, we didn't get hit with a lot of injuries. The players who did get hurt took bad contact, and that's no one's fault. Injuries happen in football. 

 

I wasn't blaming the S&C coach for injuries. My issue with him is player development in terms of weight and conditioning. Since 2012 there have been a number of players that have appeared out of shape and have and have had weight issues. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Buddy Lee said:

if we were all honest we would know that Chuck isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. He can coach up DBs. He has the players behind him entirely. However, he couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag. He needs help! He needs an OC and a DC that he doesn't override. I don't know that there are any good ones available, but Chuck needs them desperately. He is a glorified cheerleader.

Seems like you could work a little harder coming up with a line of nonsense rather than this.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

19 hours ago, Gavin said:

Hmm cleaning house obviously at a fairly large scale level, I don't think Pagano or Grigson is behind this..This has Irsay written all over it I think

 

I tend to think it might be Pagano having full control of his staff -- can't be sure about this, but if he wasn't responsible for Pep's hiring or the person Pep reported to, I don't see why he'd have control over other coaches on the roster prior to his recent meeting with Irsay.

 

18 hours ago, Superman said:

Since we're talking about secondary coaches, did any of of our safeties (or linebackers, for that matter) have any interceptions this year that weren't first tipped in the air?

 

Vontae picked off TJ Yates and Ryan Tannehill (weeks 15 & 16) -- I guess Tannehill was getting hit as he threw which caused the ball to fly short, but it didn't look like it was tipped..

 

57 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think it's the OLs fault that the QBs got hurt. The line didn't play well, but Luck's injuries were a result of some reckless play, Hasselbeck's injuries were the result of him not being able to stretch the field, which allowed defenses to be more aggressive up front. And Whitehurst pulled a hammy, which has nothing to do with protection. I think the OL coaches have been deficien, but I don't blame them for the injuries.

 

And the S&C coach isn't to blame for player injuries, either. As a matter of fact, aside from the QBs, we didn't get hit with a lot of injuries. The players who did get hurt took bad contact, and that's no one's fault. Injuries happen in football. 

 

I see where you are coming from, but don't fully agree.  The hit that lacerated Luck's kidney was on Luck, and several other licks he has taken have been from him playing recklessly -- however, there are many times he has been crushed behind the line or forced to run (and take hits when he probably should have slid) because of our OL breaking down over the past 4 seasons.

 

Hasselbeck doesn't have the strongest arm, and you're right, at times it allowed opposing defenses to play aggressive, but there were many occasions where Hasselbeck had short drops, got rid of the ball quickly and was still getting hit -- even with an aggressive D front, he shouldn't have been taking as much hits as he was taking.

 

Another way to take pressure off the QB is to establish a run game -- we've very rarely been able to do that in the past 4 years, regardless of whether T-Rich was our back or not -- which, to me, suggests a problem on the OL.

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

 

I wasn't blaming the S&C coach for injuries. My issue with him is player development in terms of weight and conditioning. Since 2012 there have been a number of players that have appeared out of shape and have and have had weight issues. 

 

I don't know about that. I agree that there have been some issues, but I think the team made a significant shift last year in weight and conditioning. Several of the linemen lost a lot of weight over the offseason, and they targeted a few leaner DL (Anderson was 294 at the combine, compared with much thicker guys that were on the roster). 

 

I have no issue with transforming the program, though. I just assumed you were linking him to injuries, maybe because you were talking about the OL and QB injuries. My bad.

[Dustin]

Just a theory here, but maybe Colts players getting injured a lot is because they play home games on carpeted concrete.  

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Vontae picked off TJ Yates and Ryan Tannehill (weeks 15 & 16) -- I guess Tannehill was getting hit as he threw which caused the ball to fly short, but it didn't look like it was tipped..

 

Was talking about safeties (and linebackers). Our safeties combined for nine picks, but I think every one of them was deflected. Freeman's was deflected, DQ's was a nice play on the ball (but a bad throw, IMO). Just an observation, but I think at least 10 of our 16 interceptions were deflections.

 

Quote

I see where you are coming from, but don't fully agree.  The hit that lacerated Luck's kidney was on Luck, and several other licks he has taken have been from him playing recklessly -- however, there are many times he has been crushed behind the line or forced to run (and take hits when he probably should have slid) because of our OL breaking down over the past 4 seasons.

 

Absolutely. Like I said, the OL has been deficient. I'm all about upgrading the line, and the OL coach. I just don't blame the OL for us using 5 QBs. 

 

Quote

Hasselbeck doesn't have the strongest arm, and you're right, at times it allowed opposing defenses to play aggressive, but there were many occasions where Hasselbeck had short drops, got rid of the ball quickly and was still getting hit -- even with an aggressive D front, he shouldn't have been taking as much hits as he was taking.

 

Several unblocked blitzers, which is a byproduct of him not being able to threaten the defense. But sure, he got hit more than he should have.

 

Quote

Another way to take pressure off the QB is to establish a run game -- we've very rarely been able to do that in the past 4 years, regardless of whether T-Rich was our back or not -- which, to me, suggests a problem on the OL.

 

Definitely.

[DougDew]

I'm tired of talking about the media rift thingy, but if these guys were let go as part of Pagano getting more control over his staff...there shouldn't be any whining by him about the way it was. (and he's never whined about it)  Pagano either agreed to the structure when he hired on 4 years ago, or, for whatever reason, not initially choosing his staff just became a big deal this season.

 

I think after a period of time Management makes an assessment of the assistant coaching roster, and makes changes they think are for the better.  It seems like they were disappointed in the defensive coaching staff for sure.  The TE coach situation may have been different.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Was talking about safeties (and linebackers). Our safeties combined for nine picks, but I think every one of them was deflected. Freeman's was deflected, DQ's was a nice play on the ball (but a bad throw, IMO). Just an observation, but I think at least 10 of our 16 interceptions were deflections.

 

 

Absolutely. Like I said, the OL has been deficient. I'm all about upgrading the line, and the OL coach. I just don't blame the OL for us using 5 QBs. 

 

 

Several unblocked blitzers, which is a byproduct of him not being able to threaten the defense. But sure, he got hit more than he should have.

 

 

Definitely.

 

Whoops, I misread your first post as any of our 'secondary (or linebackers)', not 'safeties (or linebackers)'.

 

I agree with you, this could be a sign of poor coaching.  I also think, which is a huge concern of mine, this may be a product of a lack of pass-rush (especially without a heavy blitz package).  

 

The way this NFL is moving, I think being able to hit the passer without using coverage people on blitz-packages is crucial.  Brady, Peyton, and many others have become masters of being able to check-down and dump the ball off all day long when blitz packages are dialed up.  Not only does this result in time-eating drives, but it exhausts the defense and kills momentum.

 

To me, the best way to get the safeties, corners, and LBs interceptions regularly is to be able to force the ball out quick (reducing coverage time) without having to sacrifice coverage men (which in turn would result in an open WR/TE/RB for a quick dump off).  To me, this is exactly why the Giants beat NE in 2 superbowls (they were constantly able to pressure/hit Brady and force him to get the ball out much faster than he'd like with their front 4 alone) -- and again, to me, this masked a lot of the flaws we had in our secondary/LB corp in the Dungy era (when we had a lead, Mathis and Freeney could just rush the passer and get to him without having to sacrifice coverage men).