Realistic options, Rumors for HC

[Coltfreak]

Except Gruden actually got it done. and Dungy didn't "build" the Bucs

 

Grudens record in Tampa was 57-55

 

His overall total was 95-81 in 11 seasons....  barely above average

 

Dungy was 54-42 in Tampa, 85-27 in Indy

for an over all record of 139-69  in 13 seasons

 

 

Now who was the better coach?  Who makes more sense getting credit for the Tampa team that won the SB?

[BOTT]

Grudens record in Tampa was 57-55

 

His overall total was 95-81 in 11 seasons....  barely above average

 

Dungy was 54-42 in Tampa, 85-27 in Indy

for an over all record of 139-69  in 13 seasons

 

 

Now who was the better coach?  Who makes more sense getting credit for the Tampa team that won the SB?

Hard to believe Dungy won all those game with Peyton Manning.....shocking.

Who gets credit? The guy who actually coached the team. If you want to give credit to someone else give it Sam wyche. He drafted Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Hard to believe Dungy won all those game with Peyton Manning.....shocking.

Who gets credit? The guy who actually coached the team. If you want to give credit to someone else give it Sam wyche. He drafted Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch.

Yeah I think Dungy was Very Good but not Great. Peyton ran our team basically. Don't get me wrong Dungy was solid and a players Coach but look how great Caldwell did in his first season with Dungy gone. Took us to a SB and 14-0 to start the 2009 Season.

[Coltfreak]

Hard to believe Dungy won all those game with Peyton Manning.....shocking.

Who gets credit? The guy who actually coached the team. If you want to give credit to someone else give it Sam wyche. He drafted Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch.

 

So did you give Jim Caldwell credit? He coached a near perfect season right?

[Coltfreak]

Yeah I think Dungy was Very Good but not Great. Peyton ran our team basically. Don't get me wrong Dungy was solid and a players Coach but look how great Caldwell did in his first season with Dungy gone. Took us to a SB and 14-0 to start the 2009 Season.

Tom Moore called the offense Peyton called the plays at the LOS... Peyton did not run the team,  He is a player not a coach.  He didnt do anything to coach the defense or STs

 

He is struggling in Denver this yr learning a new offense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Tom Moore called the offense Peyton called the plays at the LOS... Peyton did not run the team,  He is a player not a coach.  He didnt do anything to coach the defense or STs

 

He is struggling in Denver this yr learning a new offense.

I think Kubiak will turn the keys over to him shortly and know that Denver is better off with Peyton calling his own plays. Yes Tom Moore was a part of what was going on but Peyton called his own plays at the LOS like you said if he seen something he could take advantage of.

[Defjamz26]

Grudens record in Tampa was 57-55

His overall total was 95-81 in 11 seasons.... barely above average

Dungy was 54-42 in Tampa, 85-27 in Indy

for an over all record of 139-69 in 13 seasons

Now who was the better coach? Who makes more sense getting credit for the Tampa team that won the SB?

Later on I'm going to finally destroy this "Gruden was a bad coach" notion. Not just because of what you said but because of what many people have said.

When I show everyone what he got left with in Tampa and everything he had to deal with, a lot of people are going to feel silly. People should really do their homework.

[SilentHill]

Not true.

 

Prove it.

[krunk]

Prove it.

I don't have to prove anything. You made the statement about Ryan's mediocre is better than Manuskys. I did not say anything that was not true. Rob Ryan is a proven mediocre coordinator. You prove his mediocre is better.

[jayt327]

Jim Schwartz for DC next season

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yeah I think Dungy was Very Good but not Great. Peyton ran our team basically. Don't get me wrong Dungy was solid and a players Coach but look how great Caldwell did in his first season with Dungy gone. Took us to a SB and 14-0 to start the 2009 Season.

 

Actually, The credit for Peyton's success is Tom Moore, IMO.  And also to a small degree, Bruce Arians.  These guys taught and challenge Peyton, formed him into what he eventually became- a sure fire HOF QB deserving to be mentioned in the best of the best dialog.

 

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Ties-Bind-Bruce-Arians-Tom-Moore-Peyton-Manning/68ade57f-b3ba-4800-8372-50a17d085997

 

Peyton went from BA to Tom Moore (who is now with BA in Arizona).  Luck went from BA to Pep Hamilton.

[Restored]

Actually, The credit for Peyton's success is Tom Moore, IMO.  And also to a small degree, Bruce Arians.  These guys taught and challenge Peyton, formed him into what he eventually became- a sure fire HOF QB deserving to be mentioned in the best of the best dialog.

 

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Ties-Bind-Bruce-Arians-Tom-Moore-Peyton-Manning/68ade57f-b3ba-4800-8372-50a17d085997

 

Peyton went from BA to Tom Moore (who is now with BA in Arizona).  Luck went from BA to Pep Hamilton.

 

I think you have to throw Jim Caldwell in there as well. When he arrived, Peyton's INT's started to go down drastically.

[2006Coltsbestever]

What I cant figure out is why most people think Peyton never threw that many INT's. In 2009 when we started 14-0 he had 16 INT's but won MVP and he was in year 12, Andrew had 16 last season but yet most of the media and fans say he is a turnover machine? Peyton threw 28 INT's in his Rookie season too, Luck had 18. He never gets labeled as a Turnover machine like Luck does, why? Luck's INT's are overrated IMO. Almost half of them are just bombs 40 yards+ down the field that are basically like a Punt. Peyton has had a few seasons with 16+ INT's but when Luck throws 16+ it seems like the media and most fans think it is the end of the world. It's off topic but I am responding to Restored. In 2009 Peyton had 16 INT's in 2009 and then 17 in 2010 under Caldwell. Pretty much what Luck has done so far in his career. Luck actually only had 9 INT's in 2013.

[SteelCityColt]

What I cant figure out is why most people think Peyton never threw that many INT's. In 2009 when we started 14-0 he had 16 INT's but won MVP and he was in year 12, Andrew had 16 last season but yet most of the media and fans say he is a turnover machine? Peyton threw 28 INT's in his Rookie season too, Luck had 18. He never gets labeled as a Turnover machine like Luck does, why? Luck's INT's are overrated IMO. Almost half of them are just bombs 40 yards+ down the field that are basically like a Punt. Peyton has had a few seasons with 16+ INT's but when Luck throws 16+ it seems like the media and most fans think it is the end of the world.

 

Because it's an easy thing to point at and criticise when it comes to Luck? Let's have some context to those INT numbers*:

 

2012 18 INTS 627 Attempts 2.90% (17th Highest)

2013 9 INTS 570 Attempts 1.60% (44th Highest)

2014 16 INTS 616 Attempts 2.60% (23rd Highest)

2015 7 INTS 166 Attempts 4.20 % (2nd Highest) 

 

As a rough rule of thumb anything under 2.5% is more than decent when you look at the overall list of QBs and anything under 2% you're looking at QBs who are normally considered in the Elite bracket. 

 

Still too many picks, and the regression in 2014 and so far in 15 are somewhat worrying but he's not a "machine" as some people like to gleefully say. 

 

 

*All numbers taken from Sporting Charts

[Mike Tahoe]

I just want Pagano demoted or let go bc this team, more specifically Andrew Luck, has regressed since his rookie year.  Andrew looks less confident in his abilities and almost shell shocked to some extent when a play unfolds.  Inaccurate throws that usually sail above the receivers head and lack of touch on short passes are causing this offense to become stagnant.

 

Also, Pagano doesn't seem cut out for a being anything more than a coordinator.  He has been terrible with clock management.  He is terrible at utilizing timeouts and challenges.  The team makes absolutely no visible half-time adjustments when the game plan is obviously not working as planned. All of these shortcomings can be blamed on several different people, but when it comes down to it, its the head coaches job to make sure the team is prepared, motivated, and playing smart football each and every Sunday.

[BOTT]

Actually, The credit for Peyton's success is Tom Moore, IMO.  And also to a small degree, Bruce Arians.  These guys taught and challenge Peyton, formed him into what he eventually became- a sure fire HOF QB deserving to be mentioned in the best of the best dialog.

 

http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events/article-2/Ties-Bind-Bruce-Arians-Tom-Moore-Peyton-Manning/68ade57f-b3ba-4800-8372-50a17d085997

 

Peyton went from BA to Tom Moore (who is now with BA in Arizona).  Luck went from BA to Pep Hamilton.

Tom Moore was Manning's OC from the beginning. BA was the QB coach. and the credit for Peyton Manning's success is largely Peyton Manning. Nothing against Moore who is a good OC.

[BOTT]

So did you give Jim Caldwell credit? He coached a near perfect season right?

Another coach who had success with Manning at the helm.....once again, totally shocking.

I suppose you think Gruden did a horrible job with the raiders too?

[Two_pound]

Some of the biggest failures in nfl history have been former pat assistant coaches with head coaching jobs. Let's review a few. Mangini(Jet's and Browns) hahahahahaha. How many playoff appearences? Romeo Crennel(Browns and Chiefs) even more laughable than Mangini. What's sad is the Chiefs had a very talented roster when Pioli and Crennel got to town and they ran the team into the ground. But that's what happens when you trade the 34th pick in the draft to your former employer for a career benchwarmer who has done nothing since that trade. Then there's Mcdaniels,hhahahahahahahaha, even the car salesman in Denver knew to get rid of that joke! Why would anyone ever hire a former *. Again just my opinion.

[WoolMagnet]

One word ........ TRUMP !

[BOTT]

Some of the biggest failures in nfl history have been former pat assistant coaches with head coaching jobs. Let's review a few. Mangini(Jet's and Browns) hahahahahaha. How many playoff appearences? Romeo Crennel(Browns and Chiefs) even more laughable than Mangini. What's sad is the Chiefs had a very talented roster when Pioli and Crennel got to town and they ran the team into the ground. But that's what happens when you trade the 34th pick in the draft to your former employer for a career benchwarmer who has done nothing since that trade. Then there's Mcdaniels,hhahahahahahahaha, even the car salesman in Denver knew to get rid of that joke! Why would anyone ever hire a former *. Again just my opinion.

Mangini did fairly well in NYC all things considered.

[GoColts8818]

I just want Pagano demoted or let go bc this team, more specifically Andrew Luck, has regressed since his rookie year.  Andrew looks less confident in his abilities and almost shell shocked to some extent when a play unfolds.  Inaccurate throws that usually sail above the receivers head and lack of touch on short passes are causing this offense to become stagnant.

 

Also, Pagano doesn't seem cut out for a being anything more than a coordinator.  He has been terrible with clock management.  He is terrible at utilizing timeouts and challenges.  The team makes absolutely no visible half-time adjustments when the game plan is obviously not working as planned. All of these shortcomings can be blamed on several different people, but when it comes down to it, its the head coaches job to make sure the team is prepared, motivated, and playing smart football each and every Sunday.

Couple of things,

 

1.  Head Coaches don't get demoted.  They get fired.  Once in a while you might see an interim head coach get demoted back to being a coordinator but full-time head coaches don't get demoted within their own team.  So if anything happens with Pagano he would be fired.

 

2.  Luck has not regressed every year since his rookie year.  In fact he had progressed up until this year.  This year reminds me of Peyton Manning at this point in his career.  He's simply trying to do way too much.  Add in the injury and that pretty much explains Luck's struggles this year.

 

To the core issues though, maybe a change of coaches would do good for Luck much like it did for Manning early in his career.  The key there is you have to get the right coach.  Dungy was the perfect fit for the Colts.  I am not sure if that guy is going to be on the market for the Colts to go get this off-season.  It would be great if he is.  If not, changing coaches might just be putting lipstick on a pig. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Couple of things,

 

1.  Head Coaches don't get demoted.  They get fired.  Once in a while you might see an interim head coach get demoted back to being a coordinator but full-time head coaches don't get demoted within their own team.  So if anything happens with Pagano he would be fired.

 

2.  Luck has not regressed every year since his rookie year.  In fact he had progressed up until this year.  This year reminds me of Peyton Manning at this point in his career.  He's simply trying to do way too much.  Add in the injury and that pretty much explains Luck's struggles this year.

 

To the core issues though, maybe a change of coaches would do good for Luck much like it did for Manning early in his career.  The key there is you have to get the right coach.  Dungy was the perfect fit for the Colts.  I am not sure if that guy is going to be on the market for the Colts to go get this off-season.  It would be great if he is.  If not, changing coaches might just be putting lipstick on a pig. 

 

Great Post I agree with everything you said. Andrew's 4th season this season is similar to Peyton's 4th. Hopefully we don't go 6-10 like we did in 2001. I don't think we will because of the Division we play in but if we fail in the Playoffs again a new Coach perhaps may help Andrew become Elite like Rodgers and Brady are. Once Dungy took over Peyton was a different QB. Dungy new how to Coach that team, he was a players Coach. If we do fire Pagano the question is and a question a lot of people have been asking in here is who would be the perfect fit. I have seen so many different opinions in here. I just hope we find the perfect guy, Dungy wasn't perfect but at least we did win the SB with him and Peyton loved playing for him.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Tom Moore was Manning's OC from the beginning. BA was the QB coach. and the credit for Peyton Manning's success is largely Peyton Manning. Nothing against Moore who is a good OC.

 

Yes, so ??

 

“Bruce was always real,” Manning said. “He just kept coaching me, was positive with me and he and I had a lot of tough Mondays. … But he would coach me hard and I would learn what I did wrong and I really used that experience.”

Moore said it was clear Arians was too good to be stuck as a quarterbacks coach for long. When Arians departed to be the offensive coordinator in Cleveland, Moore’s relationship with Manning just got stronger."

 

"Moore was the one who called plays in Indianapolis, but Manning “had a lot of liberty,” Moore said. “I always told him, ‘Play smart, not scared.’ ”

 

Peyton never came into the league just knowing what to do.  He was taught, and he learned well.  And he  became who he is.

[BOTT]

Yes, so ??

“Bruce was always real,” Manning said. “He just kept coaching me, was positive with me and he and I had a lot of tough Mondays. … But he would coach me hard and I would learn what I did wrong and I really used that experience.”

Moore said it was clear Arians was too good to be stuck as a quarterbacks coach for long. When Arians departed to be the offensive coordinator in Cleveland, Moore’s relationship with Manning just got stronger."

"Moore was the one who called plays in Indianapolis, but Manning “had a lot of liberty,” Moore said. “I always told him, ‘Play smart, not scared.’ ”

Peyton never came into the league just knowing what to do. He was taught, and he learned well. And he became who he is.

You said he went from BA to Moore. That's incorrect. Pretty simple.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You said he went from BA to Moore. That's incorrect. Pretty simple.

 

Ah, I C.... semantics... but true.  But in the end-

 

"When Arians departed to be the offensive coordinator in Cleveland, Moore’s relationship with Manning just got stronger.""

[RockThatBlue]

I just want to point out that a Rob Ryan mediocre defense is still better than any Manusky defense, we have never been ranked far out of the bottom of the NFL in total defense since hes been here.

No way. Rob Ryan is a terrible DC. I'm not a huge fan of Manusky but he's been solid IMO and certainly better then Ryan.

[superrep1967]

Mcdaniels would be my choice.[/quote

No way no how he did terrible in Denver and he picked Tebow in the first round come on man.

[tvturner]

I really want Sean Payton. He is an aggressive play caller, he is a likable head coach, and the players love him, but he has discipline and doesn't keep talking about grit like Pagano(Still like him though). He has a complex offense which is nice.

[masterlock]

Why? He couldn't cut it as HC in Denver.

I don't get the hype around McDaniels either. What has he done to warrant such optimism? Flame out in Denver?

[NewEra]

I really want Sean Payton. He is an aggressive play caller, he is a likable head coach, and the players love him, but he has discipline and doesn't keep talking about grit like Pagano(Still like him though). He has a complex offense which is nice.

I'd like him or Harbaugh. I'd take Harbaugh over Payton but would like Payton over what we have

[CanuckColt]

Well, for this next week, we should 'try' Chud as HC and let him call the Offense...Arians did it.

If Chud fails, then he is gone at the end of the season.

...and Andrew needs a real QB coach to help him.

 

It makes no sense to keep the same people in the same positions and expected improved results.

[Dark_Indy]

Are there some out of the box realistic options the media is overlooking for HC next year if this dissapointing season continues?

 

A dark horse/wish list candidate I'd throw into the ring is Mark Dantonio from Michigan State. He is a very good defensive mind and has resurrected the program the past 7 years.

 

Other than Dantonio, I do like Saban as an option if he wants to coach in the NFL again.

 

And Josh McDaniels is an option if they wanna go offensive minded HC.

 

Finally, DC Matt Patricia is an option to hire since he has learned from Bellichick from awhile now on defense.

 

Branches from Bellichick's coaching tree rarely work out.

[bababooey]

Lets just send Pagano to the U and get Golden in his place

[jvan1973]

Lets just send Pagano to the U and get Golden in his place

If the object is to get worse, then yes we should do that

[Cynjin]

Branches from Bellichick's coaching tree rarely work out.

Patricia is interesting, but yeah I can't think of one of Belichick's coaches that have been a success so far as a head coach.

[bababooey]

If the object is to get worse, then yes we should do that

It ain't gonna get much better. Might as well skip our one and done in the playoffs for "winning" the division and get ourselves a better pick than mid 20s

[jvan1973]

It ain't gonna get much better. Might as well skip our one and done in the playoffs for "winning" the division and get ourselves a better pick than mid 20s

Once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen. Lots of time left

[grmasterb]

Hue Jackson?

[Zoltan]

Kyle Shanahan he knows how to run the ball, which will help Luck a lot and if he can get a good defensive coordinator it could workout well

[Zoltan]

Hue Jackson?

I think Hue is a better coordinator then he is a Head Coach just like Norv Turner and Josh McDaniels, there great Coordinators but average Head Coachs