Holmes or Harrison?

[RockThatBlue]

Who do you think played better at center Sunday?

[mattceinicram]

Probably Holmes. I noticed a couple bad snaps by Harrison which is becoming far too common.

[TKnight24]

Doesn't matter, Holmes better start week 1 or Kyle Williams will blow Andrew Luck up as Mario Williams runs back a fumble recovery for a TD from a high snap from Harrison

[Ja'Crispy]

I have more confidence in Holmes at this point. Harrison is known to have the some bad snaps. We can't afford that. I like the idea of keeping a consistent line together, like they have been doing.

[Gavin]

Holmes, At least he can snap the ball

[Superman]

I thought they both played well. Holmes had one really bad play where he was too eager to get to the second level on a run block, and left Herremans out to dry. I didn't notice any bad plays by Harrison, but he's not as good at picking up delayed pressure up the middle.

[PeterBowman]

I thought they both played well. Holmes had one really bad play where he was too eager to get to the second level on a run block, and left Herremans out to dry. I didn't notice any bad plays by Harrison, but he's not as good at picking up delayed pressure up the middle.

that's my knock against Harrison.....it's not physical, it's mental (snaps, losing rushers to block).....he's almost never beaten physically. Once he's engaged with someone it's over.

 

If you could combine Holmes' mental aspect and Harrisions physical aspect, you'd have the perfect center.

[F.T. Walton]

I think both players did OK.

[Gavin]

that's my knock against Harrison.....it's not physical, it's mental (snaps, losing rushers to block).....he's almost never beaten physically. Once he's engaged with someone it's over.

 

If you could combine Holmes' mental aspect and Harrisions physical aspect, you'd have the perfect center.

In an ideal world Harrison would be Center because at that position you not only need someone to make good line calls (Holmes) but you need a Center that can blast the DT off the ball and open up holes in the run (Harrison), In an ideal world Holmes would be a Guard do to his mobility...But hey...In an ideal world we would have better blocking schemes....I've just learned to accept we are now officially in full on Colts post 2007 mode......pass pass pass pass pass.......no run no run no run no run no run

[RealityIsLuck]

Probably Holmes but I'm a Harrison guy.

[Bravo]

Harrison if he can snap consistently.

[will426]

In an ideal world Harrison would be Center because at that position you not only need someone to make good line calls (Holmes) but you need a Center that can blast the DT off the ball and open up holes in the run (Harrison), In an ideal world Holmes would be a Guard do to his mobility...But hey...In an ideal world we would have better blocking schemes....I've just learned to accept we are now officially in full on Colts post 2007 mode......pass pass pass pass pass.......no run no run no run no run no run

As of now it's run run pass run run pass bc usually we don't pick up the first and then were forced to pass thennnn second half of the season it's pass pass pass run pass pass pass pass

[akcolt]

I still don't believe Holmes can stay healthy so it will be Harrison. I feel like he has the higher ceiling he just needs to get past the mental lapses. That will come with time.

[lollygagger8]

I'd rather see Harrison at Guard if I have to see him. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Holmes was much quicker off the ball than Harrison and he gets into position much better and is more a technician. 

 

Harrison isn't bad off the snap and when he locks onto a defender it really is a thing of beauty to watch him muscle the guy around.  Unfortunately for Harrison the times when he cleanly locks onto a defender and maintains his base so he can muscle him around doesn't happen often.

 

Holmes works with his guards better and, if doubling a defender, can hand him off and slide back to his hole to stop a delayed or stunting defender.  Holmes ends up chasing the guy in that situation.

 

For right now, I'd say Holmes is better but the gap is not huge.  Still I think it would take a series of HUGE mistakes by Holmes or a series INCREDIBLE plays by Harrison in order for that to change.

[shakedownstreet]

luck prefers holmes' smelly farts

[ColtsLegacy]

Give Harrison Holmes' brain. Problem solved.

I'd be curious to see Harrison get a shot at guard.

Overall, I think I like Harrison better. I feel Harrison can learn to make better reads easier than Holmes can learn physicality. I think Harrison was definitely better Sunday but he wasn't going vs. #1s.

[RockThatBlue]

Give Harrison Holmes' brain. Problem solved.

I'd be curious to see Harrison get a shot at guard.

Overall, I think I like Harrison better. I feel Harrison can learn to make better reads easier than Holmes can learn physicality. I think Harrison was definitely better Sunday but he wasn't going vs. #1s.

I think on that Robinson TD play it was Harrison who I saw push his man 3-4 yards down the field. No doubt dude has incredible strength.

[HtownColt]

Holmes is the superior pass protector of the two so it will be him

[ProblChld32]

I didnt really see either to be honest i missed most of the game. From what i read in articles and on this forum Holmes has had a really good camp. All he needs to do is transfer that into game situations. so week one i hope its Holmes.

[cbear]

I thought Holmes played well and really showed some physicality.  There was more than one play where he locked up on his man and well....manhandled him IMO.  I've watched that play SM talks about as that did stand out, but Herremans also seemed to hesitate a bit before attacking the DT (who blew up the play).  So I'll chalk that up to "still learning and growing."  

 

I also thought there where several plays where there were nice creases in the line, but Tipton just couldn't get to them.  I think Gore might have ripped off some nice chunks had he been in there.

[throwing BBZ]

As a Former Big Cheerleader for Holmes, i thought he looked sluggish. and got handled a lot.

I think he will have a hard time separating himself from Harrison.
And what matters most is how good they are come December...

[Superman]

Give Harrison Holmes' brain. Problem solved.

I'd be curious to see Harrison get a shot at guard.

Overall, I think I like Harrison better. I feel Harrison can learn to make better reads easier than Holmes can learn physicality. I think Harrison was definitely better Sunday but he wasn't going vs. #1s.

 

It's not just reads with Harrison. Assuming that he can learn to make reads as well as he needs to (and I don't necessarily accept that as fact), he lacks post snap awareness to recognize delayed pressure, and he lacks the footwork to get into position to block them. Get him moving forward with purpose, and he's fine, but ask him to go laterally or heaven forbid go backward half a step, and it's not pretty. He's able to use his brute upper body strength to make up for it, but his issues are more than just pre snap reads.

 

I haven't even mentioned the snap issues, which are hard to get over at this point.

[Superman]

I thought Holmes played well and really showed some physicality.  There was more than one play where he locked up on his man and well....manhandled him IMO.  I've watched that play SM talks about as that did stand out, but Herremans also seemed to hesitate a bit before attacking the DT (who blew up the play).  So I'll chalk that up to "still learning and growing."  

 

I also thought there where several plays where there were nice creases in the line, but Tipton just couldn't get to them.  I think Gore might have ripped off some nice chunks had he been in there.

 

I think Gore would have starred if he had played. Tipton was slow to the hole, and showed little ability to improvise when there was room to the outside. Even if he had bounced it outside -- and there were at least four clear opportunities to do so -- he probably wouldn't have had the speed to turn the corner on the defense. Boom probably would have had a good game, too.

 

As for the Holmes mistake, it's impossible to know the play and the assignments, but I don't see how Herremans could possibly have made the block on that play. The DL was lined up almost directly over Holmes, probably shaded a little, but not much. Holmes blew right past him, and Herremans was immediately behind the DL as he pursued the play. I think Holmes was supposed to get a check on the DL while Herremans got over into position, then Holmes could get to the second level. But second level doesn't matter if you let the DL blow up the play in the backfield.

[cbear]

I think Gore would have starred if he had played. Tipton was slow to the hole, and showed little ability to improvise when there was room to the outside. Even if he had bounced it outside -- and there were at least four clear opportunities to do so -- he probably wouldn't have had the speed to turn the corner on the defense. Boom probably would have had a good game, too.

 

As for the Holmes mistake, it's impossible to know the play and the assignments, but I don't see how Herremans could possibly have made the block on that play. The DL was lined up almost directly over Holmes, probably shaded a little, but not much. Holmes blew right past him, and Herremans was immediately behind the DL as he pursued the play. I think Holmes was supposed to get a check on the DL while Herremans got over into position, then Holmes could get to the second level. But second level doesn't matter if you let the DL blow up the play in the backfield.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably Holmes fault, unless LL was supposed to pull and take out the DL.  Hard to say.  But that's one reason why I find Oline play probably the most facinating aspect of football.  It really is a choreography.  One person messes up and the whole play goes down the toilet.  It is something to appreciate and not just a RB runing into "the pile."

[NewColtsFan]

I think Holmes is our guy.     Short term and long term.

 

I think Harrison is our back-up.      But I think this competition is just about over, even if they don't make it official until week 3 or 4 of pre-season.

[Track Guy]

A.Q. Shipley

 

Ok, just kidding. But seriously, neither one of these two has done anything yet to instill any confidence in me. 

[SDakColts]

I personally thought that of the two Harrison had the better game against the Eagles. I also think that if Harrison could get the rest of the mental aspect of the game down that he would be a much better center than Holmes, but that is a tall task. I believe Holmes is the guy this year, but I think Harrison is always going to be on his heels.

[ColtJ82]

luck prefers holmes' smelly farts

Link?

[ColtsLegacy]

It's not just reads with Harrison. Assuming that he can learn to make reads as well as he needs to (and I don't necessarily accept that as fact), he lacks post snap awareness to recognize delayed pressure, and he lacks the footwork to get into position to block them. Get him moving forward with purpose, and he's fine, but ask him to go laterally or heaven forbid go backward half a step, and it's not pretty. He's able to use his brute upper body strength to make up for it, but his issues are more than just pre snap reads.

 

I haven't even mentioned the snap issues, which are hard to get over at this point.

 

I was obviously over simplifying things. Everything you say is true regarding Harrison, but I just do not like Holmes. I think he is too soft and easily bullied, plus at times his technique is just super awkward. Honestly, I think they both stink but I definitely like Harrison's upside more.

[Hoosiernsavga]

I wish we had a option C. But if I had to choose its Holmes easily over Harrison. But neither are very good right now.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

In an ideal world Harrison would be Center because at that position you not only need someone to make good line calls (Holmes) but you need a Center that can blast the DT off the ball and open up holes in the run (Harrison), In an ideal world Holmes would be a Guard do to his mobility...But hey...In an ideal world we would have better blocking schemes....I've just learned to accept we are now officially in full on Colts post 2007 mode......pass pass pass pass pass.......no run no run no run no run no run

Now what makes you think we would run with the first pick being a receiver?

[Coffeedrinker]

I think Gore would have starred if he had played. Tipton was slow to the hole, and showed little ability to improvise when there was room to the outside. Even if he had bounced it outside -- and there were at least four clear opportunities to do so -- he probably wouldn't have had the speed to turn the corner on the defense. Boom probably would have had a good game, too.

 

As for the Holmes mistake, it's impossible to know the play and the assignments, but I don't see how Herremans could possibly have made the block on that play. The DL was lined up almost directly over Holmes, probably shaded a little, but not much. Holmes blew right past him, and Herremans was immediately behind the DL as he pursued the play. I think Holmes was supposed to get a check on the DL while Herremans got over into position, then Holmes could get to the second level. But second level doesn't matter if you let the DL blow up the play in the backfield.

Yeah on that play Holmes need to, at a minimum get an arm up and slow the DT in the RG gets in position and then go to the 2nd level.  Ideally he should fire out and push the guy towards his right so as Herr is firing out he is on a position to push the guy downfield instead of sideways.

[CanuckColt]

This is one position that needs upgrading and should be easy for Grigson to improve on if puts his mind to it.

[NagelHausForge]

I'm not an over the top fan of either of them but I think Holmes has the edge skill and intelligence wise. Harrison is certainly stronger but he has issues that have been widely discussed ad naseum. If Holmes can stay healthy I think he will be a very good center for us. He seems to do very well in coordinating the protections and getting the line on the same page. I didn't see Harrisson do that last year at all.

Hopefully Holmes stays healthy and proves to be a good center this season.

[ClaytonColt]

Harrison is more my type of player but he just makes so many mental mistakes that he's impossible to hang your hat on.

[Gavin]

Harrison is more my type of player but he just makes so many mental mistakes that he's impossible to hang your hat on.

He is what we need  at Center minus the mental mistakes

[CroatianColtsFan21]

Holmes is better in pass protection.

 

Harrison is better in run blocking.

 

Easy solution? Put Holmes in on passing plays and Harrison on running plays, it's obvious.. Just like Pep likes it   

[CanuckColt]

Holmes came into the league with strength issues.

An O-lineman needs to be strong...Holmes was not...it kept him out of the lineup for quite a while.

It still may be a problem for him even though he has had plenty of time to improve in the weight room.

[masterlock]

If Harrison could learn to snap a freaking ball I'd have to go with him. But maybe that's expecting too much after two years of practice. ;)