Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[amfootball]

I think after the tainted spygate titles it begs to question how else the patriots cheat. I think deep down people know there is a lot more going on than what had risen to the surface

People can think whatever they want but no team wins 4 titles in the cap/FA from cheating, least of all for camera location and unproven ball deflation. If it makes people sleep better at night to think the Pats have somehow cheated their way into the best modern day dynasty than have it but honestly if I really believed that than I would probably stop watching football.

[dw49]

Bubbz, I see that you failed to prove me wrong beyond what I already admitted.

Thanks!

 

 

Did you get beat up a lot as a kid ?

[HOZER]

One of my favs...

[HOZER]

this one too

[Bad Morty]

I think after the tainted spygate titles it begs to question how else the patriots cheat. I think deep down people know there is a lot more going on than what had risen to the surface

 

I would assume all disappointed fans of teams that have lost to the Patriots repeatedly think this, and not very deep down.

[Bad Morty]

"They cheated!!" > "My team isn't very good"

[dw49]

I would assume all disappointed fans of teams that have lost to the Patriots repeatedly think this, and not very deep down.

 

 

I really don't think that at all. But I do think they are a scummy bunch...

[Yehoodi]

One of my favs.

 

interesting photo, but none of them are labeled Grossman lol.

[bababooey]

interesting photo, but none of them are labeled Grossman lol.

Goes to show how good the defense was that we ran down their throats all night after the wide open Reggie TD. Not Urlacher's best night.

[ViriLudant]

Lol

Feel free to explain each point

Especially the one where you said Brady offered wells a hard copy of the texts and that he couldn't be suspended for tampering with balls even if true.

Fact: you're dead wrong

Brady offered s hard copy that listed every number he texted with dates and times. Fact.

Never mind that Wells had access to McNally and J'd texts.

Amusing that you fell for the red herring .

Show me where in the CBA that equipment tampering (which can't even be proven ) warrants a suspension.

[ViriLudant]

Did you get beat up a lot as a kid ?

Awwww... We have an Internet tough guy! How cute!

[Bubbz]

Brady offered s hard copy that listed every number he texted with dates and times. Fact.

Never mind that Wells had access to McNally and J'd texts.

Amusing that you fell for the red herring .

Show me where in the CBA that equipment tampering (which can't even be proven ) warrants a suspension.

Brady offered a hard copy of a list of numbers he texted. What this proves idk. He did not provide a hard copy of the actual texts. Fact. Try again

Coltsblue copy and pasted verbatim where it said he could be suspended for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game (which falls under equipment tampering) fact

Fail as usual

[Bubbz]

People can think whatever they want but no team wins 4 titles in the cap/FA from cheating, least of all for camera location and unproven ball deflation. If it makes people sleep better at night to think the Pats have somehow cheated their way into the best modern day dynasty than have it but honestly if I really believed that than I would probably stop watching football.

Spygate was not just about the cameras location. Come on..

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Mods - perhaps this thread has run its course and about twenty miles extra?  I, for one, don't see what's going to be accomplished here any more.  Perhaps when the ruling comes down let one last thread for discussion on it and then we can bury it all under the smelly, stinky garbage pile where it belongs?!!!  Pretty please?!

[dynasty13]

Spygate was not just about the cameras location. Come on..

Actually, that quite literally is exactly what it was about.

[Flying Elvis]

Ok if Brady and the Patriots are innocent,

1. Why are the ball boys suspended?

2. Why did they say, no more interviews with McNally?

3. Why didn't Brady bring them to his appeal?

4. Why did McNally say he wasn't going to ESPN, yet?

5. Why did McNally take the balls into the bathroom?

6. Why did McNally sneak them out of the ref room?

7. Why would Brady be mad at McNally for not taking air out of a ball from the Jets game, after the refs put it at "16"?

8. Why did McNally try to put in a K ball?

9. Why were the balls PSI levels under, even what their own biased experimenters said the ideal gas law would put them at?

There is no way you can answer all of these questions and still logically conclude, this was some innocent mishap. People trying to explain all of this away cannot possibly believe what they are saying.

I'll give it a shot.

1. Cooperation? Olive branch? This question remains unanswered but Adam Schefter claims the NFL asked the Patriots to suspend them. https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/957919684260673Also the NFL said they cannot be reinstated without approval from Troy Vincent. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492190/article/nfl-releases-statement-on-patriots-violations

2. Wells and the Patriots agreed that everyone be interviewed only once barring unanticipated circumstances. McNally was a game day only employee who worked full time out of state and he was being asked back for what would be his fifth interview. Wells wouldn't say why so the Patriots said no. http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/Patriots-explain-why-McNally-wasnt-made-available

3. He already had their statements. Why didn't Goodell want to question them considering Wells didn't get the second interview?

4. I got nothing other than they are a couple of knuckleheads.

5. Um... maybe he had to go pee?

6. He didn't sneak them out of the refs room and it wasn't unusual for him to do so. http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/rebuttal-2015-wells-twisted-mcnallys-taking-footballs

7. He was mad at Jastremski. McNally is the officials locker room attendant. He tells the officials that Tom likes his balls at 12.5 psi.

8. An NFL employee gave the ball to McNally who gave the ball to the official. http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/12344667/nfl-employee-handed-new-england-patriots-locker-room-attendant-kicking-game-ball-source-says

9. The data was handled haphazardly.

Now I have a question, if I may. Why would Tom Brady alert the officials about inflation rules and then conspire to deflate them?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Mods - perhaps this thread has run its course and about twenty miles extra?  I, for one, don't see what's going to be accomplished here any more.  Perhaps when the ruling comes down let one last thread for discussion on it and then we can bury it all under the smelly, stinky garbage pile where it belongs?!!!  Pretty please?!

 

Many mods are probably inches to closing.  However, there is a meeting scheduled Wednesday in Manhattan with Judge Berman, and another a week later.  The conclusion will be shortly after if there is no agreed upon compromise in the interim.  In the meantime, there are interesting facts coming out concerning the case.  The NFL filed its brief and my next post will center on some of its reasons for confirmation, and answers to the NFLPA charges.

[ColtsBlueFL]

We've seen many articles on the points the NFLPA are attacking to vacate the Brady suspension.

The NFL and NFLPA both filed briefs for conformation or vacating the suspension.  Some things I found from the NFL side-

The key dispute appears to be whether the NFL suspended Brady for an “integrity of the game” violation, as the league contends, or an “equipment violation,” which the NFLPA contends.

We've seen some of the NFLPA side, her's the NFL counter:

“As the award makes clear, the commissioner suspended Brady for having ‘approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of’ a scheme to tamper with the game balls,” the NFL wrote. “And for having ‘willfully obstructed the subsequent investigation."

And, as I have pointed out before, the League says-

The league’s primary defense, which it stressed several times in the brief, is that federal courts are bound to respect processes that are collectively bargained. The NFLPA agreed to give Goodell the power to oversee arbitration hearings in Article 46 of the CBA, and the NFL wrote that the courts should not supersede the CBA.

“Judicial review of labor arbitration awards is thus subject to a highly deferential standard that is among the ‘narrowest known to the law,’ ” the league wrote.

The NFL mentions the investigation does not have to be independent-

*The NFL correctly stresses that Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement lacks any language that compels an “independent” investigation. Therefore, the NFL reasons, the league had no legal obligation to provide Brady with an independent investigation.

The NFL contends Goodell doesn't even have to be impartial, as long as CBA process is followed-

“In agreeing that the Commissioner may serve as arbitrator ‘at his discretion,’ the NFLPA ‘waived’ any challenge to the Award based on the Commissioner’s alleged ‘evident partiality,’ ” the NFL wrote. “But the union offers no ‘evidence;’ instead it merely speculates that the commissioner must be biased because he affirmed the suspension.”
,
As I pointed out in a post before concerning a Supreme Court ruling that even if the NFLPA and Court thinks the NFL ruling is wrong, they just can't necessarily overturn it-

“The award could not be vacated so long as the arbitrator was ‘even arguably construing or applying the [CBA] and acting within the scope of his authority,’ ” the NFL wrote. “The award easily satisfies this extraordinarily deferential standard of review.”

Ted Wells has since stated after the report became public-

Wells: "I believe the conclusions have been proven. I used the words 'more probable than not' because that is what's in the rules."

For this ruling, Goodell strengthened his words as well, as stated above near the top.  There are no 'Generally Aware' statements anywhere to be found.

Finally this analysis-

**  The NFL countered that the NFLPA’s argument about consistent and fair punishment doesn’t apply, because Deflategate is a situation that never before has been addressed. And the NFL argued that Brady’s appeal was procedurally fair, given that he was given every right under Article 46 — the right to choose his counsel; to receive exhibits on which the NFL intends to rely; to attend all hearings and present testimony; and he is entitled to a written decision that is final and binding. **

[LogicLover]

Ahh, you're new here.   Welcome! 

 

And, well... , get used to it.  It is their top Method of Operation in anything to deal with Deflategate when lacking items supporting their side.

 

To steal a scene from Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon, it is their 'Finger pointing away to the moon'  Trying to get us to look at the finger rather than focus on the moon.

 

Thank you kind sir !

 

OMG, that's my favorite actor and one of my favorite quotes. Thank you !

[LogicLover]

Oh come on, Shark used the board to surf not damage it. It was an accident.

[RockThatBlue]

Pretty tough to lie about knowing Jastremski. Probably would have if he had time to destroy his phone too.

Lying comes easy with Brady it appears.

[RockThatBlue]

I've asked before, and I don't think I ever got an answer. How many rules have been changed because of something, directly associated with something Tom Brady and the Patriots have done?

Too many times. The only team in any sport that I know of has caused numerous rule changes due to them skirting around the rules. Amazing.

[RockThatBlue]

I mean...it's pretty obvious why fans here wouldn't want to focus on pumped in crowd noise.

And its pretty obvious why pats fans here are routinely clueless about facts.

[RockThatBlue]

It was "well known" (does that phrase sound familiar?) that the Colts were doing this around the league. Many teams accused them of it.

False.

[RockThatBlue]

I see...so you are acknowledging that there ARE rumors about this around the league...just like there were rumors that the Pats deflated footballs.

There's a big difference. One actually happened and the other didn't happen.

[RockThatBlue]

Brady offered s hard copy that listed every number he texted with dates and times. Fact.

Never mind that Wells had access to McNally and J'd texts.

Amusing that you fell for the red herring .

Show me where in the CBA that equipment tampering (which can't even be proven ) warrants a suspension.

I think you've broke a record for the most times of being wrong in a single thread. Congratulations.

[LogicLover]

I think you've broke a record for the most times of being wrong in a single thread. Congratulations.

And he beat his own previous record for the 10th consecutive time

[ColtsBlueFL]

You know, if the case wasn't before a real and true Federal Judge, I'd almost be tempted to think this whole ordeal was a fake WWE type event.  Check this out from a few weeks agao, but adter Brady's appeal...

 

http://nypost.com/2015/07/09/goodell-kraft-spotted-palling-around-after-deflategate-rift/

 

Pals and about - Kraft, Goodell, Iger (Disney CEO)

 

Wednesday and Thursday should prove interesting...

[NewColtsFan]

It's late Monday night here in Los Angeles....   it'll be midnight in a few minutes.

 

I noticed that we're on Page 50 of this thread and that tomorrow, Tuesday the 11th,  someone is going to officially make this a 2,000 post thread!

 

Surprisingly that's not the longest we've had here....   I think we had one over 3,000 when Irsay teased about possibly signing a whale who may have turned out to be Darrius Heyward-Bey.    (Or am I misremembering and confusing that thread with another player?)     Anyone remember?

 

But that thread went over 3,000 posts!     That was like a raging out of control brush fire!     This one, is a slow moving, never ending,  lava flow that destroys anything and everything that gets in its way..............

 

A final decision on this can't come soon enough!!           

[SteelCityColt]

It's late Monday night here in Los Angeles....   it'll be midnight in a few minutes.

 

I noticed that we're on Page 50 of this thread and that tomorrow, Tuesday the 11th,  someone is going to officially make this a 2,000 post thread!

 

Surprisingly that's not the longest we've had here....   I think we had one over 3,000 when Irsay teased about possibly signing a whale who may have turned out to be Darrius Heyward-Bey.    (Or am I misremembering and confusing that thread with another player?)     Anyone remember?

 

But that thread went over 3,000 posts!     That was like a raging out of control brush fire!     This one, is a slow moving, never ending,  lava flow that destroys anything and everything that gets in its way..............

 

A final decision on this can't come soon enough!!           

 

Do you not remember the juggernaut that was the T-Rich thread?

 

I'm sure it had more posts than he has career yards. 

[ViriLudant]

Brady offered a hard copy of a list of numbers he texted. What this proves idk. He did not provide a hard copy of the actual texts. Fact. Try again

Coltsblue copy and pasted verbatim where it said he could be suspended for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game (which falls under equipment tampering) fact

Fail as usual

Yes, it's true that that's what Brady is being charged with. My point is that there IS an equipment-tampering penalty, which is what Brady SHOULD be charged with. Correct ? Because that's all that this is.

[ViriLudant]

Lying comes easy with Brady it appears.

And Pagano. Very easily, as proven by the emails released.

[amfootball]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/06/judge-berman-has-an-opportunity-to-effect-real-change/

 

Florio has some interesting thoughts here on the potential fall out from the Brady case and how it could effect league wide change.

A few snippets:

 

 

A ruling from Judge Berman that scraps the suspension and points out the many flaws in the investigation and the league’s handling of it could finally force the NFL to ease back from its insistence that the Commissioner retain final say on any disputes involving player discipline.

 

The Missouri Supreme Court already has taken a chunk out of the Commissioner’s power when it comes to non-player employees, finding earlier this year that the Commissioner cannot serve as an impartial arbitrator in cases involving claims made against one of the 32 teams for which he works. Now, Judge Berman could provide a written ruling that would make the Southern District of New York the new forum of choice for players fighting suspensions.

 

Which should make Judge Berman even more inclined to ensure that cases like this won’t come up again in the future.

Indeed, if the NFL used a truly neutral arbitrator, cases like this would come up far less frequently. If ever.

 

Neutrality would ensure an outcome that seems fair due in large part to a process that seems fair. If there was any doubt before the release of the Tom Brady appeal hearing transcript, there should be none now about whether the process is truly fair. Jeff Pash, who injected himself into the investigation/prosecution by reviewing and commenting on the Ted Wells report before it was published, was shielded from testifying by the arbitrator-commissioner. Jeff Kessler, who wanted to have the same access to the raw interview notes from the “independent” investigation that investigator-advocate Lorin Reisner enjoyed, was denied that opportunity by the arbitrator-commissioner.

 

Let’s think about that for a second. How can we know that Ted Wells and company accurately translated the interview notes to the 243-page report without seeing the notes? Indeed, no one ever would have known that the characterization of Brady’s testimony in the Commissioner’s ruling conflicts with Brady’s actual testimony if the transcript hadn’t been released (and now we know why the NFL didn’t want the transcript to be released).

 

Although Judge Berman doesn’t have the power to strip the Commissioner of his power to be the arbitrator, a sufficiently strong and clear ruling from Judge Berman could lead to the same place. In recent months, the NFL abandoned its outdated blackout policy (technically, it’s suspended, but it’s not coming back) and changed the league office’s tax-exempt status because the issues had become too awkward from a political and P.R. standpoint. Judge Berman’s ruling could prompt the NFL to make a similar decision regarding the insistence on final say.

[dynasty13]

 

Oh we can do this all day ;)

 

[dynasty13]

And its pretty obvious why pats fans here are routinely clueless about facts.

 

Honestly bud you can go back to the every thread since January regarding this topic and you will find an equal amount of 'cluelessness' coming from both sides. 

 

Patriots fans have hardly cornered the market on passing off opinion as fact around here...

[Narcosys]

Oh we can do this all day ;)

Sorry, but nothing beats this one.

[Myles]

Pats are well known cheaters. That cannot be defended.

[dynasty13]

Sorry, but nothing beats this one.

 

hahha that one's pretty funny

[ViriLudant]

Sorry, but nothing beats this one.

Seriously?

One sits permanently above a team, bragging about coming in 4th place.

[pgt_rob]

Oh we can do this all day ;)

 

 

lol so what? Many teams don't ever get there. You're not hurting my feelings.