Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[amfootball]

Where does it say that Pagano discussed game balls with the Ravens special teams coach? Show me, please.

 

 

To the bolded, when?

 

You claim he's denied knowledge -- that's an action that should be provable. Show me a statement from Pagano where he denies knowledge of Deflategate, please. A quote, something from the transcript, anything.

"In an email from Sullivan to Grigson, the former tells the Colts GM that Baltimore Ravens special teams coach Jerry Rosburg called Colts head coach Chuck Pagano to inform him “that they had issues at the (AFC Divisional Playoff) game..."

 

And again, here is the email again from Sullivan to Grigson where he says the Ravens coach CALLED Pagano:

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly. We would like to use the footballs that I will break in (Balls 2, 4 and 6) so that we know that we are getting nothing that has been tampered with.  As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better."

[Superman]

there is nothing that either you or V has posted that shows the Ravens informed Pagano about game balls being tampered with or altered.

 

Nor is there any denial (that I'm aware of) from Pagano that he was informed about this from the Ravens, either game balls or kicking balls.

[amfootball]

I read the emails, both were from the Colts equipment manager, not the Ravens. The Ravens did not inform Pagano about any game ball issues from any reports that I have read. As Superman stated, what you have posted does not say what you or V are saying, they just don't. This really should not be that hard to understand, there is nothing that either you or V has posted that shows the Ravens informed Pagano about game balls being tampered with or altered.

Good heavens. The Colts equipment manager is writing the emails to Grigson based on the call Pagano had with the Ravens ST coach about the kicking and game balls.

 

Once again, the email from Sullivan to Grigson:

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly. We would like to use the footballs that I will break in (Balls 2, 4 and 6) so that we know that we are getting nothing that has been tampered with.  As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better."

[Superman]

"In an email from Sullivan to Grigson, the former tells the Colts GM that Baltimore Ravens special teams coach Jerry Rosburg called Colts head coach Chuck Pagano to inform him “that they had issues at the (AFC Divisional Playoff) game..."

 

And again, here is the email again from Sullivan to Grigson where he says the Ravens coach CALLED Pagano:

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly. We would like to use the footballs that I will break in (Balls 2, 4 and 6) so that we know that we are getting nothing that has been tampered with.  As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better."

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly."

 

Kicking balls, not game balls.

 

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out..."

 

This is not attributed to Pagano's discussion with the Ravens' coach(es). 

 

Once again, there is nothing in the record indicating that Pagano discussed GAME BALLS with the Ravens' coach(es). And there is nothing in the record indicating that Pagano denied knowledge of Deflategate.

 

Want to try again?

[amfootball]

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly."

 

Kicking balls, not game balls.

 

"As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out..."

 

This is not attributed to Pagano's discussion with the Ravens' coach(es). 

 

Once again, there is nothing in the record indicating that Pagano discussed GAME BALLS with the Ravens' coach(es). And there is nothing in the record indicating that Pagano denied knowledge of Deflategate.

 

Want to try again?

 

It is ONE email. Are you seriously trying to say that your equipment manager when he is relaying Pagano's convo about the kicking balls is NOT referencing the same call when he talks about the game balls??  You have GOT to be kidding!

[Gramz]

Sup you should just give up trying to be logical. It doesn't always register with some.

[Superman]

It is ONE email. Are you seriously trying to say that your equipment manager when he is relaying Pagano's convo about the kicking balls is NOT referencing the same call when he talks about the game balls??  You have GOT to be kidding!

 

That's speculation and conjecture.

 

Sullivan's email says that the game ball issue is something "well known around the league." While he specifically states that the kicking ball concern was based on Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens, he does NOT attribute the game ball concern to Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens.

 

As a matter of fact, he refers to it as a separate issue, saying he's bringing up "two concerns." 1) The kicking balls. 2) The game balls.

 

Let's not pretend that one email can only have one train of thought.

 

Your claim (originally from VL, but you've decided to carry the torch) is baseless on two counts, as I've repeatedly mentioned. First, Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens was specific to kicking balls, and second, Pagano never denied having any knowledge of Deflategate.

 

When I asked if you wanted to try again, I assumed you'd come with something different, not the same old debunked line of reasoning. Sorry. 

[Cynjin]

Good heavens. The Colts equipment manager is writing the emails to Grigson based on the call Pagano had with the Ravens ST coach about the kicking and game balls.

 

Once again, the email from Sullivan to Grigson:

 

"Two concerns came up as of yesterday on footballs at New England," Sullivan wrote to Grigson. "First off the special teams coordinator from the Baltimore Ravens called Coach Pagano and said they had issues last week at the game when they were kicking (Baltimore that is) they were given new footballs instead of the ones that were prepared correctly. We would like to use the footballs that I will break in (Balls 2, 4 and 6) so that we know that we are getting nothing that has been tampered with.  As far as the gameballs are concerned it is well known around the league that after Patriots gameballs are checked by officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the Patriots will let out some air out with a ball needle because their quarterback likes a smaller football so he can grip it better."

The contact from the Ravens was about the KICKING BALLS not the game balls, unless you have some type of emails or texts that show otherwise.

[amfootball]

That's speculation and conjecture.

 

Sullivan's email says that the game ball issue is something "well known around the league." While he specifically states that the kicking ball concern was based on Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens, he does NOT attribute the game ball concern to Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens.

 

As a matter of fact, he refers to it as a separate issue, saying he's bringing up "two concerns." 1) The kicking balls. 2) The game balls.

 

Let's not pretend that one email can only have one train of thought.

 

Your claim (originally from VL, but you've decided to carry the torch) is baseless on two counts, as I've repeatedly mentioned. First, Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens was specific to kicking balls, and second, Pagano never denied having any knowledge of Deflategate.

 

When I asked if you wanted to try again, I assumed you'd come with something different, not the same old debunked line of reasoning. Sorry. 

Good grief. I think it is by far reasonable conjecture that Sullivan is referencing the same convo in the email. He says both issues came up as of yesterday so I think it is safe to again reasonably assume that both issues were part of the call with Pagano that he is now sharing with Grigson.

 

Second, in terms of Pagano. Again, I challenge you to find one quote from him where he even acknowledges the deflated footballs or Grigson's involvement. Here were his comments right after the game when Grigson had spoken to the league officials at half, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/pagano-on-deflated-footballs-didnt-notice-it-wont-comment-on-it/

And that has been his stance ever since - no comment at all, more or less just playing dumb.

[ViriLudant]

I feel like I want the opposite of what Brady wants.

I want him to admit he did it.

I don't care a bit about the games, draft picks, or fines. They can have all of that back. Just admit you did it, like you should have in the first place

Except that there's no evidence that he did .

Why ask for an innocent man to lie?

[Superman]

Good grief. I think it is by far reasonable conjecture that Sullivan is referencing the same convo in the email. He says both issues came up as of yesterday so I think it is safe to again reasonably assume that both issues were part of the call with Pagano that he is now sharing with Grigson.

 

Second, in terms of Pagano. Again, I challenge you to find one quote from him where he even acknowledges the deflated footballs or Grigson's involvement. Here were his comments right after the game when Grigson had spoken to the league officials at half, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/pagano-on-deflated-footballs-didnt-notice-it-wont-comment-on-it/

 

 

1) As long as you admit that it's conjecture on your part (which it obviously is). Conjecture is different than fact. Don't tell me Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens was about the game balls as if it's a matter of fact. Say that it's what you believe. 

 

2) Declining to comment isn't a denial of knowledge.

 

Pagano's statement from your link:

“Did not notice, and that’s something for the league to handle. It’s not my place to comment on it,” Pagano said.

Pagano indicated that his conversations with the officials on Sunday were no different from his conversations with the officials in any other game.

 

“We talk, just like they talk to the officials, you have an opportunity to talk with the officials before the game about a lot of things, things that you’ve seen on tape,” Pagano said. “We talked about the formations obviously with the extra, the unbalanced stuff like we all talked about, any concerns that you might have. Everybody, every coach in the league gets an opportunity to visit with those guys before the game.”

 

Where's the denial again? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denial

[ColtsBlueFL]

The judge has to walk a very fine line.  Whether it is fair or not, the CBA specifies the roles and obligations in this case - and these were agreed to by all parties.  If the judge rules against the NFL and the CBA, (s)he effectively voids part of the agreement - and judges really, really hate to do that. You think things are bad now, just wait if this happens.

 

Indeed, but they can be vacated where the process has been tainted in specific ways, or egregious departures from the parties agreed upon arbitration practices-

1. Where the award was procurred by fraud or undue means.

2. Where there was evident partiality, undue bias, or corruption in the arbitrators.

3. Where arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient casue displayed, or refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy, or misbehavior by which the rightss of any party may have been prejudiced.

4. Whereby Arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award uppn the subject matter was not made.

And modification or correction of an award-

1) there was an evident material miscalculation or mistake in the award

(2) the arbitrators decided something outside of the scope of the agreement

(3) the award is imperfect in form, but does not impact its merits

 

 

If Judge Berman determines none of these grounds are met, he has no choice but to uphold the award.

[amfootball]

1) As long as you admit that it's conjecture on your part (which it obviously is). Conjecture is different than fact. Don't tell me Pagano's correspondence with the Ravens was about the game balls as if it's a matter of fact. Say that it's what you believe. 

 

2) Declining to comment isn't a denial of knowledge.

 

Pagano's statement from your link:

“Did not notice, and that’s something for the league to handle. It’s not my place to comment on it,” Pagano said.

Pagano indicated that his conversations with the officials on Sunday were no different from his conversations with the officials in any other game.

 

“We talk, just like they talk to the officials, you have an opportunity to talk with the officials before the game about a lot of things, things that you’ve seen on tape,” Pagano said. “We talked about the formations obviously with the extra, the unbalanced stuff like we all talked about, any concerns that you might have. Everybody, every coach in the league gets an opportunity to visit with those guys before the game.”

 

Where's the denial again? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denial

You can label it anyway you want. One email sent about two issues that came about on the same day with one phone call referenced. About as close to certain as you can get.

 

Again with Pagano, he distanced himself from this from day one and I never blamed him for doing it. You are right. Declining to comment is not the same as outright denial but it is in the same family especially since he did take a call from the Ravens concerning the footballs just two days before the game. I get that he did not want to hang the Ravens out as Harbaugh was adamant that the Ravens said nothing and then came out with his mea culpa after the transcript was released saying he had NO idea that his STs coach had called the Colts about the balls. I mean talk about looking two inches big.

[Cynjin]

Good grief. I think it is by far reasonable conjecture that Sullivan is referencing the same convo in the email. He says both issues came up as of yesterday so I think it is safe to again reasonably assume that both issues were part of the call with Pagano that he is now sharing with Grigson.

 

Second, in terms of Pagano. Again, I challenge you to find one quote from him where he even acknowledges the deflated footballs or Grigson's involvement. Here were his comments right after the game when Grigson had spoken to the league officials at half, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/19/pagano-on-deflated-footballs-didnt-notice-it-wont-comment-on-it/

And that has been his stance ever since - no comment at all, more or less just playing dumb.

No it is not reasonable, those comments about it being well known that the Patriots deflated game balls was Sullivan's opinion. There is nothing showing that was part of the information passed on by the Ravens. The only information that was given to Pagano from the Ravens was concerning the kicking balls, according to all the statements from the NFL or NFLPA.

[amfootball]

Indeed, but they can be vacated where the process has been tainted in specific ways, or egregious departures from the parties agreed upon arbitration practices-

1. Where the award was procurred by fraud or undue means.

2. Where there was evident partiality, undue bias, or corruption in the arbitrators.

3. Where arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient casue displayed, or refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy, or misbehavior by which the rightss of any party may have been prejudiced.

4. Whereby Arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award uppn the subject matter was not made.

And modification or correction of an award-

1) there was an evident material miscalculation or mistake in the award

(2) the arbitrators decided something outside of the scope of the agreement

(3) the award is imperfect in form, but does not impact its merits

 

 

If Judge Berman determines none of these grounds are met, he has no choice but to uphold the award.

And this is what happened with both Rice and in particular Peterson where the "law of shop" was successfully argued and up held by the judge to over turn the suspension.

[Superman]

You can label it anyway you want.

 

It's conjecture. Decidedly so. Glad that's over with.

 

You are right. Declining to comment is not the same as outright denial...

 

I know.

[Gramz]

Do you think there will ever come a day that Tom will admit guilt?

 

I don't.

[amfootball]

It's conjecture. Decidedly so. Glad that's over with.

 

 

I know.

LOL. Nice hack job. I will take that as yet another victory in our never ending debates.

[amfootball]

No it is not reasonable, those comments about it being well known that the Patriots deflated game balls was Sullivan's opinion. There is nothing showing that was part of the information passed on by the Ravens. The only information that was given to Pagano from the Ravens was concerning the kicking balls, according to all the statements from the NFL or NFLPA.

LOL. Where does Sullivan say it is his opinion? That is far more conjecture than assuming he is sharing the convo that Pagano had with the Ravens given he actually references the call saying that two concerns came up on the same day.

[Superman]

LOL. Nice hack job. I will take that as yet another victory in our never ending debates.

 

You said what you said. Rather than using conjecture, I took it at face value. If you didn't mean it, you shouldn't have said it.

[ColtsBlueFL]

And this is what happened with both Rice and in particular Peterson where the "law of shop" was successfully argued and up held by the judge to over turn the suspension.

 

The reasons Judge Doty vacated the Peterson award-

 

'The Judge also concluded that Henderson exceeded his authority by adjudicating the "hypothetical question" of whether Peterson's discipline could be sustained under the earlier policy. He determined that the NFLPA had not submitted that issue to the hearing officer, but only "the pure legal issue" of whether the New Policy could be applied retroactively." Finding that Henderson had "strayed" beyond the issues submitted by the NFLPA the Judge concluded that vacatur was warranted on that basis as well.'  He granted the petition to vacate the award and remanded the case "for such further proceedings consistent with this order as the CBA may permit."

 

Does not seem to readily translate to this case.  Unless Judge Berman determines Goodell doesn't have powers under Article 46 to administer punishment for 'Conduct Detrimental' in this instance, which is why this case is before Berman, and could go against the NFLPA because it is within the CBA if it applies and within the 'laws of the shop'.  Now you have to travel down the Fraud or Undue Bias routes...

[dynasty13]

Do you think there will ever come a day that Tom will admit guilt?

I don't.

Why would he?

There has been no proof of his involvement...only 'speculation' and 'conjecture'...right?

That whole thing you guys have been going on and on about portraying opinion as fact? Yeah, that applies here too...

[Cynjin]

LOL. Where does Sullivan say it is his opinion? That is far more conjecture than assuming he is sharing the convo that Pagano had with the Ravens given he actually references the call saying that two concerns came up on the same day.

Where does it say he he received that information from the Ravens? In one part of the email Sullivan references the information about the kicking balls that was relayed by the Ravens. In another part he gives his opinion and never says that it came from the Ravens. Saying that it is well known throughout the league that the Patriots deflate footballs is an opinion. So again, where does it say that opinion came from the Ravens? It doesn't, because it was Sullivan's opinion.

Also, I read that it was not actually a phone call, but rather a text that the Ravens ST coach sent to Pagano and that Pagano never replied back.

[Gramz]

Why would he?

There has been no proof of his involvement...only 'speculation' and 'conjecture'...right?

That whole thing you guys have been going on and on about portraying opinion as fact? Yeah, that applies here too...

It was a simple question.

 

My answer was No I don't think he'll ever admit guilt.

 

 

........but you're correct,  I do believe he's guilty.  Concrete proof or not.   

[Bad Morty]

Do you think there will ever come a day that Tom will admit guilt?

 

I don't.

That's how one would expect most not-guilty people to behave, isn't it? It's funny how everyone dismisses the unequivocal sworn testimony of someone with zero history of lying so readily. Benefit of the doubt - it's determined by what uniform you wear.

[Cynjin]

Why would he?

There has been no proof of his involvement...only 'speculation' and 'conjecture'...right?

That whole thing you guys have been going on and on about portraying opinion as fact? Yeah, that applies here too...

There is a difference in having an opinion that is evidence based and one that is based on fanboys speak.

[dynasty13]

It was a simple question.

My answer was No I don't think he'll ever admit guilt.

........but you're correct, I do believe he's guilty. Concrete proof or not.

And I gave you a simple answer:

Innocent people don't admit guilt, and he's maintained his innocence since day 1.

[Bad Morty]

There is a difference in having an opinion that is evidence based and one that is based on fanboys speak.

Oh there's "fanboy speak" going on here for sure. I get it...Brady wins a lot...that would make me believe even the most preposterous nonsense too if I was a fan of another team.

[Gramz]

And I gave you a simple answer:

Innocent people don't admit guilt, and he's maintained his innocence since day 1.

That you did.     We'll never agree... but something's gonna give eventually in this

[dynasty13]

There is a difference in having an opinion that is evidence based and one that is based on fanboys speak.

There certainly is...but I'm sorry to tell you that your opinion is no less based on 'fanboys speak' than those of the Patriots fans you condemn.

If it really was as clear cut and obvious as you would lead us to believe...you know, all those 'facts' you guys have been presenting...then why the heck is the NFL having so much trouble looking like the good guys here?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Except that there's no evidence that he did .

Why ask for an innocent man to lie?

First and foremost, is there anything to the story that air could have been let out?    Yes, as below-

 

I ran my own calculations and with a reasonable degree of confidence (in as far as I had tested), feel my results align with the above.  I then agree with subsequent testing by Exponent. Furthermore-

 

 

I also deduced the lower reading gauge was used, in a few posts. And the warmup theory , while true, was not enough to explain the amount if discrepancy.   So human tampering occurred.  By whom?  McNally.  The guy who called himself ‘Deflator over ¾ a year before the AFCCG was played. 

 

 

A guy who took the game balls unescorted in to a locked bathroom for one minute and forty seconds, even though he had full privileges to facilities in the officials’ locker room.  His only on field job, to deliver the game balls.  But he did so  much more than his job permits.  Texts between JJ and McNally denote impropriety regarding the game balls. One example,

 

“If McNally’s only assigned responsibility with respect to the game balls was to deliver them,  I find that “trying to get them done” referred to tampering with the inflation level of the balls.”

 

Now, why do I not believe Tom Brady was involved, that it was not only McNally?  For numerous reasons. 

 

First, I do not believe a guy that cares so much about ball preparation to get the league to change the rules doesn’t care  about nor thought about the inflation pressure of those same balls. 

Also, no alternative explanation has been given to the ‘trying to get them done’ statement.

I also believe that nobody will deliberately go beyond the directive of the starting QB in setup/prep of games balls on their own. Including JJ and McNally.

 

The points referred to in the Goodell appeal ruling.

 

In my view, Brady is not innocent. The balls were tampered with.  McNally did it. Brady knew about.  Brady got punished for it.  Brady is trying to weasel out of it on legal technicalities ( the go to move by players and their lawyers ).

[Cynjin]

Oh there's "fanboy speak" going on here for sure. I get it...Brady wins a lot...that would make me believe even the most preposterous nonsense too if I was a fan of another team.

Once again you missed the point.

By the way did you ever answer Nadine's question regarding the former OL coach of the Dolphins?

[Bad Morty]

Once again you missed the point.

By the way did you ever answer Nadine's question regarding the former OL coach of the Dolphins?

no no...I get the point fully. Perhaps you should actually read the other thread regarding "point" 2.

[Cynjin]

There certainly is...but I'm sorry to tell you that your opinion is no less based on 'fanboys speak' than those of the Patriots fans you condemn.

If it really was as clear cut and obvious as you would lead us to believe...you know, all those 'facts' you guys have been presenting...then why the heck is the NFL having so much trouble looking like the good guys here?

The public perception of the NFL has little to do with what evidence there is. Also, don't put words in my mouth, I have never said this case was clear cut. I do believe that the evidence presented supports the conclusion that McNally took air out of the footballs after being inspected by the refs. Drawing the conclusion that Brady told McNally, directly or indirectly, to take the air out is speculation. I can see both sides of that argument.

[Cynjin]

no no...I get the point fully. Perhaps you should actually read the other thread regarding "point" 2.

I saw you did answer that question, good for you. I wondered why you cared so much about Turner.

However, you did miss the point about having an opinion based on evidence.

[ColtsBlueFL]

August 11, 2015

National Football League Management Council v. National Football League Players Association

Order

ORDER: In anticipation of tomorrow's conference, counsel and the parties are requested to engage in further good faith settlement efforts today. I will meet briefly with counsel and the parties tomorrow morning at 10:30 (in the robing room) for an update on your discussions. (Signed by Judge Richard M. Berman on 8/11/2015) (ajs)

 

Settle ye, settle thee. settle thusly, 

 

Settly yours,

 

Judge Settle this now

[Nadine]

Do you think there will ever come a day that Tom will admit guilt?

 

I don't.

No he won't

So some compromise will be worked out that both sides are unhappy with and fans will go on disagreeing about this til the end of time

[Nadine]

August 11, 2015

National Football League Management Council v. National Football League Players Association

Order

ORDER: In anticipation of tomorrow's conference, counsel and the parties are requested to engage in further good faith settlement efforts today. I will meet briefly with counsel and the parties tomorrow morning at 10:30 (in the robing room) for an update on your discussions. (Signed by Judge Richard M. Berman on 8/11/2015) (ajs)

 

Settle ye, settle thee. settle thusly, 

 

Settly yours,

 

Judge Settle this now

OOO The robing room!

[Nadine]

And I gave you a simple answer:

Innocent people don't admit guilt, and he's maintained his innocence since day 1.

He has and he can afford to

[bababooey]

Why do you think he's lying? He has a 100% clean track record over his 13 year career, his character has never been questioned, and he has sworn under oath that he is not guilty. I guess giving people the benefit of the doubt depends on what uniform they wear.

He's been fined for trying to injure someone, screams at the refs when he doesn't get his way, and is part of an organization that gets caught multiple times for cheating. Yea clean slate.