Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[Bad Morty]

No, the idea that not cooperating with an investigation is going to get you the same penalty that cooperating with an investigation does is just silly.

Almost as silly as the idea that "not accepting guilt" when you are not guilty is how some people define "cooperation"

[jabbanobadda]

That's real... http://m.nbcsports.com/content/“conduct-detrimental”-vs-“equipment-violation”-brady-vs-nfl

 

Consider this: If a player were caught using stickum to help him catch the footballs thrown by his quarterback (or, to make the facts more aligned with the Brady case, if the player knew that the equipment managers were applying stickum to his gloves for him), would he be committing conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game?

Perhaps, but the NFL already has agreed that the fine for a first offense would be $8,681.

I believed you. I meant that the punishment was too lenient. I think there should be harsher punishment for cheating.

[Cynjin]

Almost as silly as the idea that "not accepting guilt" when you are not guilty is how some people define "cooperation"

Now if only your sentence only made sense.

However, assuming you meant accepting guilt. Accepting guilt or not accepting guilt has nothing to do with cooperation with an investigation.

[Bad Morty]

I believed you. I meant that the punishment was too lenient. I think there should be harsher punishment for cheating.

Hence the frustration at the NFL over this situation. I think even the most devoted hater out there would acknowledge that a receiver using Stickum is a FAR greater advantage than a few puffs of air out of the football. So how can we be told that for the "integrity of the game", the Patriots lose a million dollars, a first and a fourth round pick, and their starting QB for 4 games while the guy caught using stickum gets fined for $9K? It makes no sense.

[GoColts8818]

Why are we spending a lot of time talking about Falcons noise, World poverty, Kim Kardashian, Jerry Springer in a Patriots Deflategate thread?.

deflection that is hoping to be confused for deflation

[ColtRider]

I haven't researched the penalty for Stickum, but I'll take your word temporarily on it.

 

From where I sit, Stickum on gloves only affects one player, and only inasmuch as he is targeted.  Compared to a football that is involved in every single offensive play and by every player in possession of it.  Stickum can't be easily hidden, air pressure is not easily detectable.  But the most discernible, tackiness isn't outlawed in the NFL.  Ther are "gloves with tactified surfaces" - with a synthetic material in the palm instead of old-school leather.  They have gotten really good recently, and are in favor now days.  Likewise, Eaquipment mangers are getting really good at prepping ame balls (besides pressure LOL) to make the ball soft and tacky.  Sean Sullivan remarked how soft and tacky Brady's ball was, before 'illegally stabbing it and calling Kensil in to shut down the Patriots organization forever in a highly bumbled keystone cop type sting scheme!' {Does that sum it up, Pats fans?  lulz...}

 

Tacky items are OK in the NFL, as long as it doesn't transfer from the ball to other surfaces, or from gloves or other surfaces onto the ball.  OTOH, the league wants all footballs at 13.0 psi, with a small window just above and below for margin of error..  Now has anybody ever been punished breaking the 'Lester Hayes' rule?  what was the penalty, what was the precedent for it?

 

 

As long as they get punished via the CBA set punishment and precedent set, then what is to complain about?  Also, Many stadiums are too loud for offenses to operate in.  Legally. Period. Thus, the use of silent counts.  Long ago there were game delays, and even penalties assessed for excessive fan noise. No longer, deal with it.  That's the 12th man at work.  But if a 13th man is involved, hammer down via the CBA declared penalty.  The 13th man infraction is just sad, and more likely last resort of an organization not in the upper tier.  IMHO, fined $350,000 dollars, loss of a 5th round 2016 pick, and the Head of the Competition Committee, Rich McKay, being suspended from April 1 to June 30, 2015  seems a touch harsh, but no biggie.

 

If anything, I amupset about the Browns only getting $250,000 fine, no loss of draft picks, and GM Ray Farmer suspended just 4 games for sending Text messages to the sidelines during games.  Details of content were not revealed, but they were on in game strategy.  With today's Smartphones, its easily conceivable video taping and photos were included, and that to me is akin to Spygate.  So if you want to pick something I may get fired up over as much as Deflategate, it would be Textgate.

TextGate! Coming to an NFL Theater near Boston -- SOON!

[ColtRider]

Lets just end this crap. I'm ready for football.

Would love to end all of this. However, I've come to realize that the only way it ends on a "Colts Forum" is if one or two things happen :

1. Patriot fans disengage about DeFlateGate (highly unlikely) and/or :

2. "The Powers That Be" end it (very likely)

Reality check? You better believe it.

[Superman]

I didn't say an independent investigation now did I?

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/9/30/6876139/ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-brings-up-colts-crowd-noise-rumors-again

 

The pertinent quote

"The NFL has investigated both in 2005 and in 2007 and found nothing to even suggest that the Colts piped in crowd noise, but people don't mention that.  They just mention the rumours."

 

This whole thing started after the NFL found evidence that the Patriots footballs were out of compliance, and that their locker room attendant had removed the footballs without permission. 

 

People made accusations about the Colts, the NFL found ZERO evidence that they had done anything wrong or were out of compliance in any way, and the issue was dropped. That happened twice.

 

When the Falcons were investigated for the same thing, they cooperated, admitted guilt, and dealt with the punishment. 

 

This deflection is sad.

[AndreRison]

Ok if Brady and the Patriots are innocent,

1. Why are the ball boys suspended?

2. Why did they say, no more interviews with McNally?

3. Why didn't Brady bring them to his appeal?

4. Why did McNally say he wasn't going to ESPN, yet?

5. Why did McNally take the balls into the bathroom?

6. Why did McNally sneak them out of the ref room?

7. Why would Brady be mad at McNally for not taking air out of a ball from the Jets game, after the refs put it at "16"?

8. Why did McNally try to put in a K ball?

9. Why were the balls PSI levels under, even what their own biased experimenters said the ideal gas law would put them at?

There is no way you can answer all of these questions and still logically conclude, this was some innocent mishap. People trying to explain all of this away cannot possibly believe what they are saying.

So, no answers. Says a lot.

[dynasty13]

This whole thing started after the NFL found evidence that the Patriots footballs were out of compliance, and that their locker room attendant had removed the footballs without permission. 

 

People made accusations about the Colts, the NFL found ZERO evidence that they had done anything wrong or were out of compliance in any way, and the issue was dropped. That happened twice.

 

When the Falcons were investigated for the same thing, they cooperated, admitted guilt, and dealt with the punishment. 

 

This deflection is sad.

 

It isn't deflection to compare situations.

 

Yes, there is nothing to the Colts noise thing and I wish Patriots fans would stop bringing that up as an example. But the Falcon's situation is very real, and it's worth talking about in the context of punishing a team for an 'integrity of the game' offense. 

 

Everyone wants to sit here and say 'oh they got punished harder its because they didn't cooperate'...but I am willing to bet that if Brady came out at the beginning and said 'yes we did it, we were wrong, we will accept the punishment handed down'...exactly 0% of you guys would be ok with a the Patriots 'only' losing a 5th round selection. It's easy to sit here and say Brady brought it on himself, but in reality, the guy has proclaimed innocence since the beginning, and the NFL felt the need to punish that because of some grand evidence that is only known to Goodell and he is apparently unwilling to release to the world. 

[bababooey]

It isn't deflection to compare situations.

 

Yes, there is nothing to the Colts noise thing and I wish Patriots fans would stop bringing that up as an example. But the Falcon's situation is very real, and it's worth talking about in the context of punishing a team for an 'integrity of the game' offense. 

 

Everyone wants to sit here and say 'oh they got punished harder its because they didn't cooperate'...but I am willing to bet that if Brady came out at the beginning and said 'yes we did it, we were wrong, we will accept the punishment handed down'...exactly 0% of you guys would be ok with a the Patriots 'only' losing a 5th round selection. It's easy to sit here and say Brady brought it on himself, but in reality, the guy has proclaimed innocence since the beginning, and the NFL felt the need to punish that because of some grand evidence that is only known to Goodell and he is apparently unwilling to release to the world. 

 

Correct....because this is not the first time the Patriots were accused of cheating.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I merely point out this action to show how the NFL reacted to actions which effect how one interacts with a ball, that is all.  It is clear from the NFL's reaction is that it was not a big concern for the NFL.  The NFL certainly felt that it was an enough of an issue to subsequently outlaw the towels, so its not like the towels were innocent, contrary to how you want to spin it.

 

As for a rules violation, if whatever substance was on the towel got onto the ball in any manner it would be violation of the ball tampering rule, the very one in question in this thread.  Bottom line, the rule in question prevents ANY tampering with the ball in ANY way, so whatever foreign substance (i.e. not like your average towel you use to dry yourself off after a shower as that towel is just the material is made out of) is on the towel and it got onto the ball its a violation of a rule, plain and simple. Period.  

 

And lets not be naive here, the players and teams that were using the towels "more probable than not" knew there was some tacky substance on the towels and very likely used the towels for the benefit of that substance (after all they could of purchase towels without a tacky substance right?).  And "more probably than not" they wiped their gloves with the towels and invariably those gloves touched the ball.  Period.  And if you sit and wonder why the NFL outlawed the towels, I think you can do the above math.  Okay?

 

Now did the NFL start a league wide investigation into all of the teams?  No, why, because its not really an issue.  We had a somewhat league wide use of a foreign sticky substance that was intentionally used by some teams which "more probably than not" got its way onto the ball; and thus, more probably than not there was a rules violation, the same one in question in the instant thread.

 

Bottom line, if the NFL thought the substance was innocent they would not have outlawed its usage.  But they did not think it was innocent.  They did however demonstrate a low level of concern for a substance and action which they felt the need to outlawed.  this is the crust of my point.

 

Also, for the third or fourth time, when the NFL investigated the incident (regardless of it was a ref on the field or a scientist in a lab in California) it met with obstruction by the team and its employees.  The NFL merely issued a fine and not a suspension for that obstruction.  The fact that the obstruction fine was subsequently overturned does not change the fact that when initially faced with a decision regarding a penalty for one obstructing an investigation for actions which involved ones interaction with the ball it chose a fine and not a suspension.

 

So my point being is that given above precedent I do not see how the NFL can suspend Brady for any actions regarding what it felt he obstructed the process of the investigation. 

 

Its not like the NFL found out about the balls at half time and exchange them for the back up balls, then issued an directive on Monday indicating that "We have found some inconsistencies with the balls played with by both the colts and the patriots in the AFCCG and we wish to remind folks that it is against the rules to tampering with the balls"

 

And then if after that directive someone plays hanky panky with the balls then we are in a different element.

Response to this?  ROFL - no other response would be adequate.

 

Your team was ruled to have cheated.

 

Our team was ruled to NOT have cheated.  

 

Rationalizing = Rational + lies.  That's all I'm reading here which is why I've moved on and am popping in for the entertainment value every VERY so often.  

[crazycolt1]

That's real... http://m.nbcsports.com/content/%E2%80%9Cconduct-detrimental%E2%80%9D-vs-%E2%80%9Cequipment-violation%E2%80%9D-brady-vs-nfl

 

Consider this: If a player were caught using stickum to help him catch the footballs thrown by his quarterback (or, to make the facts more aligned with the Brady case, if the player knew that the equipment managers were applying stickum to his gloves for him), would he be committing conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game?

Perhaps, but the NFL already has agreed that the fine for a first offense would be $8,681.

Why does that have to do with Brady? Nothing.

[Superman]

It isn't deflection to compare situations.

 

Yes, there is nothing to the Colts noise thing and I wish Patriots fans would stop bringing that up as an example. But the Falcon's situation is very real, and it's worth talking about in the context of punishing a team for an 'integrity of the game' offense. 

 

Everyone wants to sit here and say 'oh they got punished harder its because they didn't cooperate'...but I am willing to bet that if Brady came out at the beginning and said 'yes we did it, we were wrong, we will accept the punishment handed down'...exactly 0% of you guys would be ok with a the Patriots 'only' losing a 5th round selection. It's easy to sit here and say Brady brought it on himself, but in reality, the guy has proclaimed innocence since the beginning, and the NFL felt the need to punish that because of some grand evidence that is only known to Goodell and he is apparently unwilling to release to the world. 

 

The Colts noise thing is a deflection.

 

The Falcons situation is a real situation. But the NFL investigated it, determined to their satisfaction that they knew what happened and to what extent people were involved, and handed down their punishment. The Falcons response to the situation was entirely different than the Patriots from the very beginning, and they took some lumps for what they did.

 

No players, coaches or football staff were determined to be involved.

 

Me personally, I don't think artificial crowd noise is as critical as football air pressure. Pumping it up more has a marginal impact, and it was wrong, and they deserved to be punished for it. Footballs are actual game equipment, the most important game equipment, and while this didn't determine the outcome of the AFCCG, the NFL seems to believe that it wasn't the first time the Patriots had done this (the 'deflator' text was back in May of 2014). You may or may not agree, but I think ball tampering is more serious than artificial crowd noise.

 

Brady being involved -- obviously that's what the NFL believes -- also makes this much different than the Falcons issue. The Patriots having a previous infraction changes the reaction, also.

[crazycolt1]

Hence the frustration at the NFL over this situation. I think even the most devoted hater out there would acknowledge that a receiver using Stickum is a FAR greater advantage than a few puffs of air out of the football. So how can we be told that for the "integrity of the game", the Patriots lose a million dollars, a first and a fourth round pick, and their starting QB for 4 games while the guy caught using stickum gets fined for $9K? It makes no sense.

Why is stickum even an issue at this point? The use of stickum was stopped and now the gloves are just as good, and are legal. Will you please quit deflecting the issue with things that have nothing to do with the issue?

[Bubbz]

As Promised Viriludants use of "FACTS" (none of the quotes that were responding to his statements ever recieved a direct response back)

 

 

 

when I have time and I'm on a computer I will go through and multi quote EVERYTIME you spouted something completely false in this thread and someone quoted you pointing out how you were 100 percent wrong and you didn't say a word...

That is until your next post full of garbage, claiming how you are seemingly above everyone else in this thread and are the only one using "facts". I would honestly be embarrassed. You go around making wild claims or distorting or skewing facts and when it's blatent lay pointted out for the whole forum you shut up for a little, then rinse and repeat. Throw in a tangent here and there bout how everyone else is wrong and only you are right and that sums up your posting history.

You're either a troll or a complete joke. How old are u?

 

 

I have not posted anything wrong except for the Minnesota statement, although the NFLPA did try to file there .
 

 

 

 

Four Colt balls were under 12.5 PSI.

Fact.

 

 

Ok lets see your facts:  Here I'll start. Right out of the Wells Report:

FACT 1:

Each of the Patriots’ 11 footballs tested at halftime measured below the 12.5 psi benchmark. Four Colts balls tested were between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. Only four of the Colts’ balls were tested because officials were running out of time before the start of the second half. The Patriots’ footballs were inflated to proper levels for the rest of the game.

 

Fact 2: Patriot's Balls Numbers
 

Prioleau’s measurements were, in PSI: (1) 11.8; (2) 11.2; (3) 11.5; (4) 11.0; (5) 11.45; (6) 11.95; (7) 12.3; (8) 11.55; (9) 11.35; (10) 10.9; and (11) 11.35.

Blakeman’s measurements were, also in PSI: (1) 11.5; (2) 10.85; (3) 11.15; (4) 10.7; (5) 11.1; (6) 11.6; (7) 11.85; (8) 11.1; (9) 10.95; (10) 10.5; and (11) 10.9.

Fact 3:

You keep talking about facts proving Tom's and the Pat's innocence, but have yet to provide any "facts" from a credible source, or any at all.  

 So instead of calling me a liar, how bout you man up, stand up and bring out some "facts" instead of sucking down whatever Tom Brady decides to throw out

 

 

Yee said Brady cycled through the cell phone he had used in the months from November through March after returning to the country from celebrating the Super Bowl victory when he was looking to upgrade to an iPhone 6. He said that Brady offered to provide detailed records to the NFL from AT&T that indicated where every call and text message were sent, and that the league in fact had access to the degrees of communication he would have had with the two Patriots employees at the heart of the probe: Jim McNally and John Jastremski.

"Tom's phone billing record from this timeframe shows that he never spoke on the phone or texted with McNally, ever," Yee said. "Tom's phone billing record shows that nearly every communication with Jastremki was already in possession of Wells' team with exception of three texts between Tom and Jastremski on Feb. 7. Every other communication he ever had with Jastremski in that time period was already in the hands of Wells' team. They also had any communication between Tom and the equipment manager (Dave) Schoenfeld."

Yee said that the Brady "voluntarily disclosed to the league" that he had cycled through this cell phone prior to his March meeting with Wells, and that Brady also indicated that it is a regular practice of his to delete emails and texts from his phone "as a safeguard," something Yee advises his clients of as a general practice. "Given Tom's public status, to ever lose phone and have texts and emails on there would be significant consequences from a publicity standpoint," Yee said.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25253590/bradys-agent-nfl-shifted-focus-to-phone-because-its-science-is-junk

Yep. Obfuscation.

By the way, Gramz, John Dowd ripped everything that the NFL has done. Ripped the Wells report. Called this whole situation an ambush.

Now, Gramz is the one who likened this situation to Pete Rose.

Well, the man who investigated Rose and nailed him disagrees with you 100%.

 

 

So there were three texts that the NFL weren't given access to? Yeah, that's not fully cooperating with the investigation. So good luck in federal court

 

 

Speaking as someone who has real life experience and an education in digital forensic and Cybersecurity. There is a very narrow time frame in which wireless carriers keep actual message contents. Beyond that, carriers have information such as sent to/from and time stamps. That's about it. SMS messages don't work and aren't stored in the same fashion as email servers which contain exabytes of capacity. So handing over billing records which would show the sent information and time stamps doesn't prove or disprove squat.

 

 

Once again, you say random stuff without backing up any of it.



By the way, Goodell's own counsel edited the Wells report.

So much for an "independent" investigation. The NFLPA is going to have a field day with that FACT alone.

 

 

Yeah, just because they claim that doesn't make it fact.

Its funny you call people out for making statements without backing it up. You are the biggest offender in doing that very thing

[Bubbz]

Viriludants Facts Continued

 

 

More evidence that Goodell is the liar.

Quote:
“They never asked for the actual device. Ted Wells, in his May 12 press conference actually said that -- he emphasized that. They didn’t want the actual device........They knew going into the March 6 hearing that they were not going to get the actual device. They knew that.

 

 

That has been known for awhile. They only wanted relevant texts. He failed to provide them

 

 

Read the NFLPA doc that I linked earlier.
It.
Is.
Outstanding .

Oh, and blows away, clear and simply, anything released by Goodell and Co.

Oh, and this will take place in Minny. Kessell associated this with the Peterson case (which is going to kill Goodell, since he's insisting that they are unrelated), and therefore it will have precedence over what the NFL did in NY.

 

 

The location hasn't been set yet, another thing you spout without being fact.

But even if it is in Minnesota it won't be presided over by the pro union Doty. It will be Richard Kyle, a George H W Bush appointee. So they filed in Minnesota hoping to get Doty and it back fired. They would have been better off filing in Massachusetts

 

Clearly you didn't read the NFLPA's document.

JMO.

 

 

Coming from the guy that was adamant this would be heard in Minnesota

 

 

Untrue. The NFL told the Patriots to suspend them.


By the way, another major point: Ted Eells interviewed both guys for the Wells Report.

Both completely denied doing anything wrong .
So tell me, Colts fans: why didn't Wells include that in his whole report? He never mentioned those two, even though he interviewed them.

Hmmmmm....

 

 

??? he mentioned them both several times. Clearly you didn't read the report

 

 

What?!

Brady offered Wells a hard copy of the text messages.

 

 

says who? Not Ted Wells

 

 

[Bubbz]

And Continued

Thanks for not answering my question.

Once again.
The NFL provided the lies to Mortensen.

Fact.

NFL officials on Park Ave seconded the lie.

Fact.

 

 

link?

 

 

Riggghhhtttt. List off those institutions .

Exponent has already been exposed.

And please, MIT < ColtBlue?

Laughable.

 

 

No laughable is discounting a scientific proof just on your say so. Show us MIT's breakdown in full and we can discuss it.

Oh wait that's but what you're here for right?

 

 

By the way, according to the NFLPA, based on the CBA, Brady cannot be suspended for being involved in deflating footballs, even if true.

 

 

According to the NFL, under Article 46 1a, yes he can.

 

 

[amfootball]

Well if that's the case then I think its total nonsense that the league wants to make the case that it's an integrity of the game issue. If the action itself that affects the game is truly the issue, then the punishments should be reflective of the severity of said action...not based on the subsequent reaction of those involved.

What is ironic is the league's integrity is the one being questioned severely since the Brady transcript went public ...

[dynasty13]

What is ironic is the league's integrity is the one being questioned severely since the Brady transcript went public ...

 

Those in glass houses...

[ColtRider]

Regards to post #1943, #1944, and # 1945 ...

Strike one. Strike two. Strike three. You're outta there.

Three 104 mph fastballs right down the heart of the plate. Whiff. Whiff. Whiff. (I could feel the air from here!)

[Gramz]

Regards to post #1943, #1944, and # 1945 ...

Strike one. Strike two. Strike three. You're outta there.

Three 104 mph fastballs right down the heart of the plate. Whiff. Whiff. Whiff. (I could feel the air from here!)

Simply amazing. Nearly 1950 posts of mostly nonsense.

[Gramz]

What is ironic is the league's integrity is the one being questioned severely since the Brady transcript went public ...

I think everyone's integrity is in question.

[amfootball]

Not to 'deflect' anything...but I still can't believe that nobody seems to care about the Falcons getting caught pumping in crowd noise, yet air pressure in a football became some national scandal. I mean, on one hand, we have a situation that has proven to affect a football game, and on the other, we have air pressure in a freaking football. And which one do people want to look at and call out for cheating?

 

Crazy.

We had the Browns too for texting on the sideline that came and went without a hub bub ... and of course the Vikings and Panthers ball tampering from warming balls on the sideline that did not even register with anyone given the league just told them to stop doing it - no fine, no nothing.

[dw49]

 

And Continued

 

I don't think the posts go back far enough to show this but just to add another. Our man Virdundant also stated about 15 times that the true ball measurements , were all 12 Pat balls (other then the one the Colts intercepted and Doctored.. he also said the Colts would be found guilty of that) measured a tick to two under. The real stats that were released was "many of the balls measures a few ticks below the 12.5. He needed to be called out about 12 times before he stopped posting that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gramz]

[Girlzarefanstoo]

What is ironic is the league's integrity is the one being questioned severely since the Brady transcript went public ...

In all honesty... you have not demonstrated that you would recognize integrity if it announced itself at your front door.  

[BullsColtsFan1]

That had to be a dolphin.  We need to get our facts straight

[-JJ-]

Simply amazing. Nearly 1950 posts of mostly nonsense.

crrrrrrrrraaaaazy

 

I don't care for all the threads on who got arrested or what team did this and got fined etc. The NFL will do what they will do and that's that. The rest is just opinions and points, usually biased and pitting one side against the other.

 

I'd much rather discuss actual football........but atlas

[pgt_rob]

Would love to end all of this. However, I've come to realize that the only way it ends on a "Colts Forum" is if one or two things happen :

1. Patriot fans disengage about DeFlateGate (highly unlikely) and/or :

2. "The Powers That Be" end it (very likely)

Reality check? You better believe it.

 

Yeah... at some point the tires have to come to a screeching halt and I hope it is very soon.

[ColtRider]

Yeah... at some point the tires have to come to a screeching halt and I hope it is very soon.

Unfortunately, it might be quite some time after the ruling(s) and appeal(s) through the court system. I hope not.

[ViriLudant]

Yes in one case the league felt they had found enough to hand out a pretty severe punishment.

So quit deflecting by trying to compare apples to oranges ya de ya de ya.

Serious apples to apples comparison , then.

Why were the Jets in '09 not fined with loss of draft picks? Why was their kicker not even fined, never mind suspended?

That's an apples to apples comparison .

[ViriLudant]

Bubbz, I see that you failed to prove me wrong beyond what I already admitted.

Thanks!

[Gramz]

and one more....  I don't care who you are, this is funny  

 

[Cynjin]

 

The ideal gas law could explain what happened.

[amfootball]

Since we are in meme mode. This is one of my favs.

 

[amfootball]

This one too.

 

[amfootball]

One last goodie.

 

[Bubbz]

Bubbz, I see that you failed to prove me wrong beyond what I already admitted.

Thanks!

Lol

Feel free to explain each point

Especially the one where you said Brady offered wells a hard copy of the texts and that he couldn't be suspended for tampering with balls even if true.

Fact: you're dead wrong

[Bubbz]

One last goodie.

I think after the tainted spygate titles it begs to question how else the patriots cheat. I think deep down people know there is a lot more going on than what had risen to the surface