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Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

IndyD4U

By IndyD4U
in NFL General

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Gramz Team Captain

Gramz

Posted
Posted

Nobody is saying Tom Brady doesn't have to deflate footballs to win games, that's not the question at all. Such a lazy, cop-out statement.

Also on behalf of everyone here can you please just stop posting random quotes from people that are pro-Brady? You don't see us blowing this up with quotes from Revis, Aikman, Esiason, etc.

My sentiment, exactly. For every random quote she scours the Internet to find, there are dozens stating the opposite.

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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Reports now that the NFL won't settle unless Brady publicly accepts the Wells Report conclusions. Lol. Uncomfirmed report that Brady also has to sign a sworn affidavit that nobody at the NFL Offices ever saw the Ray Rice video.

 

I can't wait until this incompetent fool Goodell is sacked.

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Nadine Ring of Honor

Nadine

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He cited four clear examples where there was clear proof to counter innocence claims. Admission by the defense the Hernandez was present during the killing along with video of him holding a gun, failed drug tests by Arod and Lance Armstrong, and Rose himself admitting to betting on baseball and accepting and agreeing to permanent ineligibility.

 

That kind of evidence isn't present here, yet some have found him guilty anyways and just can't quite fathom why he won't admit to it. 

I think the point is that saying someone has an honorable track record is nice and it helps but it's not sufficient.

Lots of people are well liked and people are shocked when truth comes out.  For example, John Wayne Gacy used to entertain at children's parties.

 

And just because some feel there is not 'sufficient proof' for Brady supporters does not mean that he did not do it either.

 

I know you think there is but I do not.  And it's pretty clear to me that Brady did this.

 

OJ Simpson springs to mind as someone who was actually proven innocent but, everyone knows that he's not

 

It happens

 

Whatever happens with this case, your opinion won't change and neither will mine and many many many other people.

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Nadine Ring of Honor

Nadine

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Apparently settlement talks are not going well. The biggest issue is admission of guilt. If Brady admits any guilt he could most likely get it reduced but he won't, looks like this isn't ending today.

That's what I expected

He's dug himself in way too deep to admit it now

ugh!

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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Whatever happens with this case, your opinion won't change and neither will mine and many many many other people.

 

that seems obvious, given your choice to use John Wayne Gacy and OJ Simpson to prove your point O o ...I'm sure you could have squeezed in a Jeffrey Dahmer or Hitler reference in there if you really tried...

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Nadine Ring of Honor

Nadine

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that seems obvious, given your choice to use John Wayne Gacy and OJ Simpson to prove your point O o ...I'm sure you could have squeezed in a Jeffrey Dahmer or Hitler reference in there if you really tried...

Come on

the discussion topic was people who are well respected/liked ........cannot possibly be guilty

and

People who have sufficient means to get an innocent verdict are in fact innocent.

 

My comment went to those points

 

People do all sorts of things.  Good people do wrong things all the time

 

Guilty people get off all the time and Bad people mascarade as good people all the time

 

That's just reality

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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Come on

the discussion topic was people who are well respected/liked ........cannot possibly be guilty

and

People who have sufficient means to get an innocent verdict are in fact innocent.

 

My comment went to those points

 

People do all sorts of things.  Good people do wrong things all the time

 

Guilty people get off all the time and Bad people mascarade as good people all the time

 

That's just reality

 

I just doubt that most people would outright dismiss the guy's sworn testimony the way the are now if he played for another team.

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bababooey Walk On

bababooey

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I just doubt that most people would outright dismiss the guy's sworn testimony the way the are now if he played for another team.

 

Considering he impeded the investigation and the two ball boys have not testified, why would people automatically assume his testimony is 100% true. He could play for the Orlando Blooms and people would still come to the same conclusion in light of all the circumstantial evidence plus the non-cooperation related to the missing evidence (texts and testimony from ballboys AFTER The Deflator was discovered). Yet you all want us to believe what Brady's daddy and his dumb agent are saying.

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Jason_ Team Captain

Jason_

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I just doubt that most people would outright dismiss the guy's sworn testimony the way the are now if he played for another team.

 

It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Patriot's player and everything to do with the way Brady has handled this from the beginning.  This is just you playing the victim card.

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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It has nothing to do with the fact that it's a Patriot's player and everything to do with the way Brady has handled this from the beginning.  This is just you playing the victim card.

Yeah well...that's your opinion I suppose. I get it...I'm a Red Sox fan...it took me years to realize that I was a biased obsessed hater when it came to the Yankees. I'd have been leading the pitchfork brigade if something similar happened to a Yankee player back 10 years ago. It's what fans do.

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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Response to this?  ROFL - no other response would be adequate.

 

Your team was ruled to have cheated.

 

Our team was ruled to NOT have cheated.  

 

Rationalizing = Rational + lies.  That's all I'm reading here which is why I've moved on and am popping in for the entertainment value every VERY so often.  

 

I see you are not getting my point so I will try again, I did not want to have spend my time on this matter but at the same time did not want to let my point no go unanswered.  You indicated that you are neutral fan and I rely on your representation that you are neutral on the matter as some here appear not to be.  As such I am spending time on this post.  

 

Here is my point more fully stated.

 

My point is a simple one.  When there is no enumerated penalty for a given action the commissioner has two choices: he can either let it go and establish a penalty moving forward for future violations or he may set a penalty for the present violation that is in line with the offending action.    With respect the latter he may not act arbitrarily and must act consistent with NFL’s prior actions.  The Commissioner’s authority is not absolute.    Bottom line the player has be on notice that his actions will result in X penalty, and that is accomplished by enumerated penalty (you do X and you get y) or folks who have committed similar acts to yours and got Z, don’t complain if you get Z.   Very straight forward.  

 

In the instant case there is no enumerated penalty set forth for a player directing an employee (and much less being general aware of the same) to take air out of a ball after inspection by the refs.  There is one that applies to the teams, the one we all discussed in January/February.

 

So the Commissioner has two choices, let it go or try to fashion a penalty for the action.  He is choosing to do the latter.    And given the above, he can’t be arbitrary but he can look to other prior actions by the NFL and penalties to fashion a result which is such that he can make the argument, in his mind, that the action by Brady is similar to those other enumerated actions; and as such, one can use the penalties from those actions to impose one here.  Brady should have been on notice that his actions would carry such a penalty as his actions are similar, or equate to, those other actions. 

 

Here, the Commissioner draws a comparison to a PED violation which carries a 4 games suspension.  And as such, his point is I am imposing a 4 game suspension as the actions are equivalent to a PED violation.   Brady should have been on notice that actions equivalent as a PED violation would carry a 4 game suspension.     I do not agree with the Commissioner, but I see what he is trying to do.

 

Now do you understand?

 

Now if you understand the above, you can understand, or should understand, the other side of the coin, which is my point.

The other side of the coin is that this is not a PED violation equivalent, it does not help Brady run faster or throw farther, but it is a violation with respect to a benefit gained from one grabbing a ball.  And with respect to the latter are there any things on the books or prior actions by the NFL with respect to the same such that we can see the NFL opinion on the matter?

 

With that said we have stickum which helps one grab a ball and carries a $8600 or fine.  We have a report of a Jet employee tampering with a kicking ball, he was suspended and the kicker/player was not.  We have the Viks/Panther in which teams were tampering with a ball, no fine no suspensions, and just as critical after the actions the NFL, via Dean Blandino, merely stating we want to remind clubs not to heat balls and nothing about integrity or that such conduct is conduct detrimental.  Similarly we have the same result with the SD case, you have sticky substance, which as you indicated was not a violation on the books, but we have no investigation to see of any of those teams rub the balls with the sticky towel (which would be a violation of a the post locker room ball tampering rule (i.e. the tacky substance would rub onto the ball)), and like the Viks/Car case a post event release by the NFL that we are not allowing these towels and just a critical no language that the same is deals with integrity or conduct detrimental.

 

So bottom line anything that has to do with one gaining an advantage with respect to one’s grip on the ball is either a small fine or nothing.  And that is the crust of my point.  This issue is more to do with person interaction with a grip on a ball then a PED violation.  And just as you very likely understood my point about Goodell above you must also understand my point above.  

 

And if one can make a case that Brady did direct the side line employees to deflate the balls post locker room, you will have to go through the above to fashion a remedy/penalty.

 

With respect to obstruction of justice, one would still have to make a case that Brady did obstruct justice, and after making the case will have to go through the above analysis to fashion a remedy/penalty.  With respect to such penalty, no player has ever been suspended for obstructing a NFL investigation.

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Bubbz Walk On

Bubbz

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Posted

Sorry - didn't mean to post something that required a sense of humor to understand. My bad.

After some of the things you and others have said, it wouldn't have surprised me in the slightest if you were being seirous.

I actually did think about it for a second and thought "he's joking right, oh never mind look who posted it"

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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Wow...

 

Berman grilled Nash about the NFL-commissioned Ted Wells report, asking why some evidence was withheld from Brady's legal team, to which Nash responded that the information was priveliged.

Berman's questioning was pointed. "Is there any direct evidence linking Mr. Brady to tampering," he asked Nash

 

Sucks when actually neutral people poke around at this, eh Goodell?

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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So I'm assuming that the courts aren't going to go through all the texts, even to make sure none were missed. Sounds like the judge just wants them both to agree on something and move on. That's it, no more digging into it any further.

 

That is not necessarily true.  Part of the fairness is that the underlying decision was founded on sound facts.  Meaning I can not make an initial ruling that has no basis in fact then give you a "fair" arbitration of my initial ruling and then claim in federal court we should only look at the arbitration fairness and ignore the initial ruling not based in fact.    

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bababooey Walk On

bababooey

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What's coming out from the New York Daily News reporter who was there looks REAL bad for the NFL. Berman was all over them about the lack of evidence it sounds like. If he's considering the evidence it's going to be bad for Roger...

So we are just gonna pretend like the text messages holding all the information just don't exist and The Deflator and Dorito Dink don't have to say anything and this is how Brady gets off? Makes sense.

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Bad Morty Walk On

Bad Morty

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Berman: "What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it."

 

Berman: "I’m not sure where the 'gate' (in #DeflateGate) comes from. The Wells Report and the award relates only to one game."

 

Berman: From legal perspective: "You have to show that conspirators intended to be in the conspiracy...Is there a meeting?"

 

BERMAN: "Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?"

 

lmao...OUCH!

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cdgacoltsfan Ring of Honor

cdgacoltsfan

Posted
Posted

My goodness.

 

The stubbornness, the arrogant behavior, the rudeness and condescending emails to his manager, Tom Brady is a disgraceful human being. I don't care how good or bad he is with football. His personality as a human being is disgusting.

 

How many of you wish a Ronda Rousey Vs Tom Brady in an octagon?. That arm bar would be a sight to watch !

He let Britget have his first illegitimate kid all by herself. What a class act!

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Gramz Team Captain

Gramz

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Berman: "What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it."

Berman: "I’m not sure where the 'gate' (in #DeflateGate) comes from. The Wells Report and the award relates only to one game."

Berman: From legal perspective: "You have to show that conspirators intended to be in the conspiracy...Is there a meeting?"

BERMAN: "Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?"

lmao...OUCH!

I believe the conspiracy he's referring to is the NFLPA's claim that the NFL conspired or schemed to frame the Pats, and he's saying he's not seeing that. :dunno:
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jvan1973 Ring of Honor

jvan1973

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Uh indeed

Berman started the hearing by saying there were “strengths and weaknesses to both sides here.” And during his questioning of Nash, the judge acknowledged it would be difficult to imagine Brady remaining unaware of doctored footballs.

“He’s the one who throws the ball,” the judge said.

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Nadine Ring of Honor

Nadine

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Yeah well...that's your opinion I suppose. I get it...I'm a Red Sox fan...it took me years to realize that I was a biased obsessed hater when it came to the Yankees. I'd have been leading the pitchfork brigade if something similar happened to a Yankee player back 10 years ago. It's what fans do.

dismissing people who disagree with you as obsessed haters is not warranted and not a civil argument, nor a good one.  It's inflammatory

Stop doing it

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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I believe the conspiracy he's referring to is the NFLPA's claim that the NFL conspired or schemed to frame the Pats, and he's saying he's not seeing that. :dunno:

 

If those questions are being asked of the NFL, the judge is likely asking he does not see any evidence that McNally, Jag and Brady together conspired to deflate the balls.   If there is not direct action by Brady himself to deflate the balls, one could still get Brady if there is a showing that there was a meeting of the minds between the three that the employees would deflate the balls on Brady's behalf.

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Cynjin Walk On

Cynjin

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If those questions are being asked of the NFL, the judge is likely asking he does not see any evidence that McNally, Jag and Brady together conspired to deflate the balls.   If there is not direct action by Brady himself to deflate the balls, one could still get Brady if there is a showing that there was a meeting of the minds between the three that the employees would deflate the balls on Brady's behalf.

Yeah, it depends on who the judge was addressing. I was not clear on which side he was questioning.

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Yehoodi Walk On

Yehoodi

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Yeah, it depends on who the judge was addressing. I was not clear on which side he was questioning.

 

Yah, and we really need to wait till after the hearing to get everything in context.  And assuming we get correct reports from what was asked and answered of and by whom.    Also, this is just opening rounds and the judge, on the record, is poking at each side cases and addresses key facts in the case.

 

It does not mean that he is decisive in either direction, just want to get on the record responses of each party regarding some key points in the case.

 

It should be interesting to see how things play out down the road.

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