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I think Brady's team offered to settle for a fine only.  I guess the League wanted >=2 games. If they wanted admission of Guilt, that'll never happen.  That is why they are in court now.

 

A good while back I proposed 1 game suspension for obstruction (and Kessler opened the door for that possibility yesterday, thank goodness!), no public admission of guilt (though pockets of people feeling that he's guilty will never go away, no matter what outcome is eventually reached), and a fine of a token amount.

 

Hopefully Wednesday the 19th, that is what is announce and we move on.  If not, oral arguments begin, I think Judge Berman now concentrates on process and not facts in the Wells report.  And if NFL passes Judge Berman's fire and brimstone muster, the 4 games will hold.  I understand that in the last 68 arbitration cases handed over to Judge Berman, only two of those cases were overturned.  The arbitration award was upheld in 66 out of those 68 cases.

 

If the court overturns the award, I wonder if the floodgates for every player to fill Federal courts dockets with arbitration cases could be considered flung wide open.  That really isn't desirable and upset the whole idea of arbitration in the first place.

 

I just have this weird feeling Berman thinks Brady, in this instance, is being over punished, but is culpable to a degree.  So e leans on the NFL to give in and get a settlement.  But if pushed to rule on 9/4/2015, he just may well side with NFL.  I think we have a settlement on 8/19, or a last second agreement just before Judge Berman rules on 9/4.  The parties are contending with “a famous settlement judge," Chief Judge Loretta A. Preska said. “He’s very good at it. He understands people and the pressures on people and he’s always calm himself, never ruffled.”

 

And it is still fact he only overturned 2 of his last 68 arbitration cases.  He confirmed 66.

THIS.   Yes, I agree with the bolded.  I believe the Judge thinks the punishment was too much, but he also believes Brady participated in the deflation.   He stated as much.

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Based on what we've heard about the NFL, they won't allow anything less than 4.

Brady isn't going to admit to accepting the botched Wells report. The NFL is demanding that.

So it'll come down to Berman.

Yeah..  I have serious doubts if the two sides come to a settlement.  And at this point, it is really hard to guess what Berman will do.

 

As I stated above,  I believe he thinks the punishment was too much, but I also get the feeling he thinks Brady was guilty to a degree in the deflated footballs.    

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If the judge ends up settling it he will

I don't know, when things like this go to a judge you never know how they will rule. That is why most settle before hand.

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I wonder how the owners feel about the people who's refusal to you know maybe own up to this trivial thing created the need for a hugely expensive investigation? 

 

 

This is simply not an accurate portrayal of what happened. The league intentionally leaked a preposterously false story about what happened within 24 hours of the completion of the AFC Championship game and this story led the national evening news on all 3 networks because of it, with no correction from the NFL. People seem to want to dismiss this aspect of it because it doesn't fit the nice tidy narrative they are trying to pedal. This was all about PR, and the NFL (for reasons STILL unknown to me) got the jump on the PR war and immediately had the Patriots in a position where an admission was not going to be to any minor, trivial thing that would have disappeared with the next news cycle...any admission would have been taken in the context of the overblown "major cheating scandal" framework that the NFL itself created.

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This is simply not an accurate portrayal of what happened. The league intentionally leaked a preposterously false story about what happened within 24 hours of the completion of the AFC Championship game and this story led the national evening news on all 3 networks because of it, with no correction from the NFL. People seem to want to dismiss this aspect of it because it doesn't fit the nice tidy narrative they are trying to pedal. This was all about PR, and the NFL (for reasons STILL unknown to me) got the jump on the PR war and immediately had the Patriots in a position where an admission was not going to be to any minor, trivial thing that would have disappeared with the next news cycle...any admission would have been taken in the context of the overblown "major cheating scandal" framework that the NFL itself created.

 

RCA... Pats employee doesn't steal balls... this never happens.

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RCA... Pats employee doesn't steal balls... this never happens.

yeah if you aren't willing to acknowledge the league's complicity in this situation being what it is, then you aren't looking at it honestly.

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yeah if you aren't willing to acknowledge the league's complicity in this situation being what it is, then you aren't looking at it honestly.

And neither are you

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And neither are you

no I'm actually pretty honest about what happened. I've said for a long time now that I think McNally violated a rule by taking the balls into the bathroom. I've also acknowledged that all speculation on what he did in there in 90 seconds is equally legit, ranging from "nothing", to "checking the balls to make sure the refs did them right", to "taking some air out of the balls". We will never know, but any one of those 3 scenarios is equally plausible and regardless of which one it is, it's still a violation that he took the balls in there. I also know that the PSI level of the footballs had exactly ZERO impact on the game that was played on the field, which renders this entire situation trivial.

 

When we start getting into "deep conspiracy with Brady the evil genius at the top of the pyramid"...I'm sorry - that is just complete nonsense. You are free to believe it as you wish...same as people are free to believe in UFO's, Bigfoot, Crop Circles, etc etc...but as a Federal Court Judge said yesterday "Where is the direct evidence that ties Brady into this supposed scheme?"....and the NFL replied "There is none". That's all you need to know here...the NFL has acknowledged that they have no direct evidence to support the wildly overblown claims on which they based their punishment. That's why we are here. That's why this isn't going to get settled. Brady would rather lose in court and take the 4 games than be railroaded into validating these bogus assertions and I don't blame him. Take the 4 games if that's what it comes to.

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That is a great question. Lots of speculation on this. I believe Kessler proposed a huge fine to cover the non-coop. He cited the $50k fine for Favre's non-coop so perhaps something more like $200 or $300k?  I don't think Brady or the PA want to accept a one game suspension for non-coop but at this point I think they may be willing to do it to get this over with and clear Brady of the cheating.

 

What is interesting to me is the league wants Brady to accept the findings of the Wells report but he can't as he would then be purging himself given his under oath testimony at the appeal. Also, given the judge cast serious doubt on the league proving Brady had anything to do with the AFCCG balls, the league is going to have to concede on this and this is a HUGE point for them so I think they may refuse and just take a loss here.

 

What I thought was brilliant by Kessler is that he did not try to refute the balls being tampered with. He said that although the PA believes the balls were not tampered with, it is possible that McNally could have done something but he did so without Brady's consent or direction. As someone in the media mentioned, Kessler is defending Brady not the Pats and as we all know the Wells report is the weakest on Brady's involvement and not as weak on the fact that the ball boys may have done something to the balls.

 

I guess we will see. What do you think the offer was?

Please understand, this will not clear Brady of cheating. Just like what was on the destroyed Spygate tapes, people will always know that there is something incriminating in the missing 10,000 text messages as well as examining The Deflator and Dorito Dink under oath. Nothing clears Brady of cheating, especially if he gets off on a technicality because Wells couldn't get enough evidence since Brady and the Patriots withheld (and were punished for, and accepted punishment for withholding).

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yeah if you aren't willing to acknowledge the league's complicity in this situation being what it is, then you aren't looking at it honestly.

Fact of the matter is that Goodell has lost his last four court cases regarding his ability to punish players. He is hoping that this court case will give him the precedent that he desires for punishing players.

That is all that this is about.

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Posted · Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - personal shot
Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - personal shot

no I'm actually pretty honest about what happened. I've said for a long time now that I think McNally violated a rule by taking the balls into the bathroom. I've also acknowledged that all speculation on what he did in there in 90 seconds is equally legit, ranging from "nothing", to "checking the balls to make sure the refs did them right", to "taking some air out of the balls". We will never know, but any one of those 3 scenarios is equally plausible and regardless of which one it is, it's still a violation that he took the balls in there. I also know that the PSI level of the footballs had exactly ZERO impact on the game that was played on the field, which renders this entire situation trivial.

 

When we start getting into "deep conspiracy with Brady the evil genius at the top of the pyramid"...I'm sorry - that is just complete nonsense. You are free to believe it as you wish...same as people are free to believe in UFO's, Bigfoot, Crop Circles, etc etc...but as a Federal Court Judge said yesterday "Where is the direct evidence that ties Brady into this supposed scheme?"....and the NFL replied "There is none". That's all you need to know here...the NFL has acknowledged that they have no direct evidence to support the wildly overblown claims on which they based their punishment. That's why we are here. That's why this isn't going to get settled. Brady would rather lose in court and take the 4 games than be railroaded into validating these bogus assertions and I don't blame him. Take the 4 games if that's what it comes to.

 

He either went to the bathroom in a urinal that doesn't exist, or he deflated the balls. There is no in between, no reason to take the balls from the refs when 1) it's not his job to do so and 2) they've been approved. Imagining Brady telling him to do so is not very farfetched compared to UFO's and Bigfoot you clown. NFL acknowledges there is no DIRECT evidence because BRADY DIDNT COOPERATE. 

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Please understand, this will not clear Brady of cheating. Just like what was on the destroyed Spygate tapes, people will always know that there is something incriminating in the missing 10,000 text messages as well as examining The Deflator and Dorito Dink under oath. Nothing clears Brady of cheating, especially if he gets off on a technicality because Wells couldn't get enough evidence since Brady and the Patriots withheld (and were punished for, and accepted punishment for withholding).

Lol..yes it will. A Federal Judge just reviewed the Wells Report and said there was no evidence tying Brady to anything. Keep the dream alive though...

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Lol..yes it will. A Federal Judge just reviewed the Wells Report and said there was no evidence tying Brady to anything. Keep the dream alive though...

No one is arguing that the Wells report isn't flawed. You realize no follow up w ball boys post-Deflator realization and no text messages from Brady to corroborate deleted ones from tweedle dee and tweedle dum that they are responsible for any "garbage in". This stuff exists despite you not thinking it does.

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This is simply not an accurate portrayal of what happened. The league intentionally leaked a preposterously false story about what happened within 24 hours of the completion of the AFC Championship game and this story led the national evening news on all 3 networks because of it, with no correction from the NFL. People seem to want to dismiss this aspect of it because it doesn't fit the nice tidy narrative they are trying to pedal. This was all about PR, and the NFL (for reasons STILL unknown to me) got the jump on the PR war and immediately had the Patriots in a position where an admission was not going to be to any minor, trivial thing that would have disappeared with the next news cycle...any admission would have been taken in the context of the overblown "major cheating scandal" framework that the NFL itself created.

 

Fact, Brady and Patriots were found guilty of Ball tampering

Fact, Brady lost on appeal

Fact, Judge Berman got Kessler to admit Jim McNally did it , 'but not from a Brady directive.

Fact -  these are the stories right after, and a few days following the AFCCG  (sorry for long post folks)

***

NFL finds that Patriots used underinflated footballs

{snipped content}

According to a National Football League letter about the investigation into the controversy that was shared with the Globe, the Patriots were informed that the league’s initial findings indicated that the game balls did not meet specifications. The league inspected each of the Patriots’ 12 game balls twice at halftime, using different pressure gauges, and found footballs that were not properly inflated.

According to ESPN, 11 of the 12 game balls were found to be underinflated by about 2 pounds each. The NFL specifications say they must be inflated to 12½ to 13½ pounds.

The investigation is still ongoing.

A league spokesman declined to comment Tuesday, and earlier in the day, NFL executive vice president Troy Vincent told Pro Football Talk that the investigation would ideally be complete within two or three days.

{snipped content}

If the Patriots are found to have deliberately doctored footballs, the organization can be fined a minimum of $25,000, and if the NFL finds the incident egregious, the Patriots could potentially lose a draft pick. In 2007, commissioner Roger Goodell took away a first-round draft pick and fined Patriots coach Bill Belichick after determining the team had spied on an opponent.

{snipped}

The investigation will attempt to find out if the Patriots tampered with the footballs after the referee inspection. It’s possible that cold temperatures affected the pressure of the footballs, but it was an unusually warm 51 degrees at kickoff.

{snipped content}

***

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/20/nfl-says-patriots-used-under-inflated-footballs/7UlPZI3eotRTBadM89saeO/story.html

And here is Mortensen's official ESPN artcle:

***

The NFL has found that 11 of the New England Patriots' 12 game balls were inflated significantly below the NFL's requirements, league sources involved and familiar with the investigation of Sunday's AFC Championship Game told ESPN.

The investigation found the footballs were inflated 2 pounds per square inch below what's required by NFL regulations during the Pats' 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts, according to sources.

"We are not commenting at this time," said Greg Aiello, the NFL's senior vice president of communications.

{snipped}

Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved. If a person is found breaking league rules and tampering with the footballs, that person could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline.

Troy Vincent, the league's senior executive vice president of football operations, told The Associated Press late Tuesday in response to this report that the "investigation is currently underway, and we're still awaiting findings." He told "Pro Football Talk with Mike Florio on NBC Sports Radio" earlier Tuesday that the NFL expected to wrap up its investigation in "two or three days."

{snipped}

************

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game

Lots of early article saying same thing... wrap this up in a few days, 25K fine, maybe lose a draft pick, maybe more discipline, etc..

It did  not 'blow up' until later, when the NFL determined, they needed help in the investigation and brought in Ted Wells.

Things started to crank up after Brady's media appearance, and article like this from CNN 5 days after the incident-

{snipped}

"While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated," the NFL's statement said.

The statement said the NFL wants to know "specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence."

{snipped}

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/23/us/nfl-patriots-deflategate/

***********************************

The history of this is preserved on the internet, as above.  So Revisionists beware-

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/23/footballs-were-under-inflated-in-title-games-1st-half-nfl-says.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/01/23/379400387/nfl-hires-investigators-says-patriots-used-under-inflated-balls

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2015/0123/NFL-says-Patriots-used-underinflated-footballs-in-AFC-Championship-game

 

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Fact, Judge Berman got Kessler to admit Jim McNally did it , 'but not from a Brady directive.

 

^ This is not a fact. You are betraying your bias by posting this...

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"My lawyer told me not to" isn't a good defense.

 

I believe it would be an excellent defense. It might get the lawyer or the players union a reprimand or a sanction but Brady should not have to ignore their advice. That is just my opinion, I am certainly not a lawyer.

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

Sidenote:    I am reading all kinds of reports of Tom/Gisele Divorce rumors, amidst the deflategate stuff.

 

Think there's any truth to these?  I know how y'all love to have links attached to comments, so here's just a few.  There are plenty more out there.    

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2331631/tom-brady-divorce-rumor-deflategate-scandal-reportedly-driving-tom-and-gisele-apart/

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/celebrity/tom-brady-and-gisele-bundchen-divorce-rumors-surface/ar-BBlGIeJ

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I think Brady's team offered to settle for a fine only.  I guess the League wanted >=2 games. If they wanted admission of Guilt, that'll never happen.  That is why they are in court now.

 

A good while back I proposed 1 game suspension for obstruction (and Kessler opened the door for that possibility yesterday, thank goodness!), no public admission of guilt (though pockets of people feeling that he's guilty will never go away, no matter what outcome is eventually reached), and a fine of a token amount.

 

Hopefully Wednesday the 19th, that is what is announce and we move on.  If not, oral arguments begin, I think Judge Berman now concentrates on process and not facts in the Wells report.  And if NFL passes Judge Berman's fire and brimstone muster, the 4 games will hold.  I understand that in the last 68 arbitration cases handed over to Judge Berman, only two of those cases were overturned.  The arbitration award was upheld in 66 out of those 68 cases.

 

If the court overturns the award, I wonder if the floodgates for every player to fill Federal courts dockets with arbitration cases could be considered flung wide open.  That really isn't desirable and upset the whole idea of arbitration in the first place. And may undermines the NFL complete judiciary process.

 

I just have this weird feeling Berman thinks Brady, in this instance, is being over punished, but is culpable to a degree.  So e leans on the NFL to give in and get a settlement.  But if pushed to rule on 9/4/2015, he just may well side with NFL.  I think we have a settlement on 8/19, or a last second agreement just before Judge Berman rules on 9/4.  The parties are contending with “a famous settlement judge," Chief Judge Loretta A. Preska said. “He’s very good at it. He understands people and the pressures on people and he’s always calm himself, never ruffled.”

 

And it is still fact he only overturned 2 of his last 68 arbitration cases.  He confirmed 66.

In terms of your point about players taking the league to court, that has been happening ever since Goodell became Commish. Brady is far from the first to do this and more often than not the players have been winning which shows the issue lies more with the league and how it is handling the power bestowed upon it within the confines of the CBA. The fact is if the NFL had less arbitrary policies and were more reasonable with their punishments, they would go to court less. And waste fewer judicial resources. The NFL’s unreasonableness with some of Goodell’s decisions is a direct result of the NFL's deep pockets. If they had budgets like normal businesses, they wouldn’t push the legal envelope of what they can do with their powers.

 

In terms of Berman, you may be right that he could ultimately rule in favor of CBA but that would seem odd is to why he has been so focused on the process here if he was just going to cite article 46 and say the NFL can do what it wants. Ultimately the judge's charge is to provide justice which is why Berman is looking at the facts of this case which favors Brady.

 

My overall feeling right now is the PA is the one that has extended the olive branch in terms of accepting some culpability for non-coop swinging the door open for a settlement on those grounds. If the NFL remains dug in that will not play well with Berman who as you say desires to have the case settled and has already said he has issues with the Wells report proving Brady's involvement and also questioned the independence of Wells and company. This is why as of today I feel the power in this case resides with the PA and Brady and hopefully good faith talks are going on and a settlement happens by the 19.

 

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BERMAN: "Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?"

Berman to Kessler: It looks like they...deflated the game balls? Why would either one of them do that without Mr. Brady’s consent?"

Kessler: "It is conceivable Mr. McNally thought it would be something that would be good for his QB. That makes a certain logical sense."

Kessler said at the start, "the players' union does not believe the balls were deflated, but, if they were, the employees believed it would help their quarterback."  So he was not saying they were deflated for sure but if they were that the employees acted on their own to help their QB.

 

I think this was the best part of the hearing from Kessler as I noted earlier in this thread. He is defending Brady not the Pats. So he is not saying that the ball boys might have done it but that they were under no order or direction from Brady to do it and as we know the Wells report is the weakest on showing Brady's involvement in the AFCCG.

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^ This is not a fact. You are betraying your bias by posting this...

 

 

Kessler never admitted that McNally did anything.

 

BERMAN: "Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?"

Berman to Kessler: It looks like they...deflated the game balls? Why would either one of them do that without Mr. Brady’s consent?"

Kessler: "It is conceivable Mr. McNally thought it would be something that would be good for his QB. That makes a certain logical sense."

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BERMAN: "Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?"

Berman to Kessler: It looks like they...deflated the game balls? Why would either one of them do that without Mr. Brady’s consent?"

Kessler: "It is conceivable Mr. McNally thought it would be something that would be good for his QB. That makes a certain logical sense."

Am already corrected you above. Kessler prefaced each statement with what she posted above .

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Am already corrected you above. Kessler prefaced each statement with what she posted above .

 

 

That was his recorded answer under direct questioning from the judge.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Quoted -

 

Berman to Kessler:  "It looks like they...deflated the game balls? Why would either one of them do that without Mr. Brady’s consent?"

Kessler:  "It is conceivable Mr. McNally thought it would be something that would be good for his QB. That makes a certain logical sense."

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

*Kessler is not the Players Union. He could have answered differently, yes?   But he throws McNally under the bus, only because he thinks Berman believes there was tampering.

 

Brady's attorney Jeffrey Kessler presented the argument that Patriots personnel may have deflated footballs without Brady's knowledge,  ...

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/8/12/9136779/tom-brady-nfl-deflategate-suspension-settlement-federal-court

 

* If Kessler himself also, like the Union, believes the footballs weren't deflated, he should have stuck to that comment alone.*

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

Sidenote:    I am reading all kinds of reports of Tom/Gisele Divorce rumors, amidst the deflategate stuff.

 

Think there's any truth to these?  I know how y'all love to have links attached to comments, so here's just a few.  There are plenty more out there.    

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2331631/tom-brady-divorce-rumor-deflategate-scandal-reportedly-driving-tom-and-gisele-apart/

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/celebrity/tom-brady-and-gisele-bundchen-divorce-rumors-surface/ar-BBlGIeJ

Thanks for the info Gramz Tom doesn't appear to be having a very good year. :woah:

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

Sidenote:    I am reading all kinds of reports of Tom/Gisele Divorce rumors, amidst the deflategate stuff.

 

Think there's any truth to these?  I know how y'all love to have links attached to comments, so here's just a few.  There are plenty more out there.    

 

http://www.inquisitr.com/2331631/tom-brady-divorce-rumor-deflategate-scandal-reportedly-driving-tom-and-gisele-apart/

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/celebrity/tom-brady-and-gisele-bundchen-divorce-rumors-surface/ar-BBlGIeJ

"Hooray! Let's relish in someone's personal problems!"

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

Tom doesn't appear to be having a very good year. :woah:

 

Really?

 

059.jpg

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

Sidenote: I am reading all kinds of reports of Tom/Gisele Divorce rumors, amidst the deflategate stuff.

Think there's any truth to these? I know how y'all love to have links attached to comments, so here's just a few. There are plenty more out there.

http://www.inquisitr.com/2331631/tom-brady-divorce-rumor-deflategate-scandal-reportedly-driving-tom-and-gisele-apart/

http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment/celebrity/tom-brady-and-gisele-bundchen-divorce-rumors-surface/ar-BBlGIeJ

Is Giselle pregnant again? That's when he likes to leave them.

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - off topic, tom/giselle stuff

"Hooray! Let's relish in someone's personal problems!"

Who's relishing?

I was actually surprised this hadn't already been shared on here. :dunno:

Could be am's lucky break. :P

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Posted · Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - Off topic perosnal jabs at Brady
Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - Off topic perosnal jabs at Brady

"Hooray! Let's relish in someone's personal problems!"

Brady himself is probably relishing in it. Now he can go knock up more women and screw around at age 37 while still maintaining his "classy" mirage for New Englnd fans

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I agree about the money although the billionaire owners do like their money but more important to them is the media attention that this has drawn. Not sure if you saw Mara's comments from earlier this week but he talked about fatigue with this story and that it needs to end soon. So I don't think they like the fact that Roger has dragged this on and one while spending millions.

And I am not sure why people keep saying this would have been over if the Pats or Brady just admitted it. Since when does the NFL need an admittance of guilt to punish a team or

Uhh if Brady would've admitted it and took his punishment it definitley would've been over. They were saying during the appeal if he just admitted to it a deal probably would've been done for a lesser punishment. He just wants to stage this on like a jerk for as long as possible

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Posted · Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - Responding to hidden
Hidden by ColtsBlueFL, August 13, 2015 - Responding to hidden

Brady himself is probably relishing in it. Now he can go knock up more women and screw around at age 37 while still maintaining his "classy" mirage for New Englnd fans

Well, we know one guy who lacks class here.

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Posted · Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - quoting hidden
Hidden by Superman, August 13, 2015 - quoting hidden

Well, we know one guy who lacks class here.

 

Hmmm .. nothing like calling the kettle black.

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Mod note: We're not going to do the Tom/Giselle stuff here. Thanks in advance.

Agreed. In fact, this thread has run its course.  Will start new thread when more 'real news' is revealed.

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