Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)

[da_pats_troll]

If I were a pro and handled that kind of a ball day in and day out - yes.  I played college basketball and the tiniest variation on the ball was discernible.  It didn't shoot right, bounce off the rim in the same way, dribble right or even just feel right in my hands.  I played tennis and soccer as well.  Anyone that uses a ball day in and day out could potentially know the difference.  They might not know but the ball would perform differently whether they knew it or not.  

 

YOU are choosing not to hear and respond to my point.  It makes a difference in the way the ball performs.  A significant difference.  One that 3 pros on that set and many other pros on other sets can tell you gives a benefit to the team using the 2 lbs. under-inflated ball.  There is a reason the rule exists.  

 

 

 

Sorry, maybe I wasn't making my point clear enough. No one is debating if an under inflated ball has those properties. I think everyone knows what happpens when the ball is not up to 12.5 psi.

 

No, I heard your point and acknowledged it.

[da_pats_troll]

and did you happen to "get" my point, or did you skip over that part?

 

I seen what you wrote, I put it down as a not so subtle rub on Brady's presser, which is fine by me, I make fun of this situation, why shouldn't you? Did you expect me to run to his defense?

[IcEWoLF]

Ray Lewis just hammered the Patriots on NFL Countdown. They were handing a regular football and a deflated one around, noting how they could clearly tell a difference. This won't go away.

Yeah because players run around with two balls on the field to compare with.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

No, I heard your point and acknowledged it.

It's why all this matters.  

 

IF (and I stress if) your team did this on purpose... it matters.

IF this has happened more than once (since other teams may have observed it and reported it)... it matters.

IF there is a long pattern of this (harder to prove but we're early in the investigation) it's the worst, most disgusting kind of cheating.

 

Be a fan of your team, I get that - but just don't choose to be blind.  

[Gramz]

I seen what you wrote, I put it down as a not so subtle rub on Brady's presser, which is fine by me, I make fun of this situation, why shouldn't you? Did you expect me to run to his defense?

Actually,  I am growing tired of the discussion, and wish we had some real answers.  

 

The scenario I threw out there is just a thought to ponder, and definitely a possibility.

[The Old Crow]

Some piece of garbage of a writer, Ben Vollin of the Boston Globe, had the audacity to blame Harbaugh and Pagano of hatching a conspiracy , and snitching on Belichick ! Unbelievable. Typical tactic of attacking innocent parties, when they followed the NFL rules, and their coach didn't.

[da_pats_troll]

It's why all this matters.  

 

IF (and I stress if) your team did this on purpose... it matters.

IF this has happened more than once (since other teams may have observed it and reported it)... it matters.

IF there is a long pattern of this (harder to prove but we're early in the investigation) it's the worst, most disgusting kind of cheating.

 

Be a fan of your team, I get that - but just don't choose to be blind.  

 

I dont think I have blinders on here. There are a few posts scattered about from me that state if they did it, then hand out the punishment. I will state it again, if its proved the patriots cheated, take some draft picks, suspend responsible parties. GIve them a huge fine.

 

Dont confuse my irritation with the "press" as a defense of the patriots.

[da_pats_troll]

Actually,  I am growing tired of the discussion, and wish we had some real answers.  

 

The scenario I threw out there is just a thought to ponder, and definitely a possibility.

 

Its certainly possible thats all that happened. The patriots cheated. But until thats proven or disproven, we can debate (well, until we just get tired and move on )

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I dont think I have blinders on here. There are a few posts scattered about from me that state if they did it, then hand out the punishment. I will state it again, if its proved the patriots cheated, take some draft picks, suspend responsible parties. GIve them a huge fine.

 

Dont confuse my irritation with the "press" as a defense of the patriots.

OK, then forgive my irritation.  There has been so much in this thread that has been incredible blind homerism and a lack of willingness to take an honest look at the situation.

 

I for one, want this resolved correctly not speedily.  If the Patriots are innocent I will let it go.  If they are not, depending on what is found out I want them soundly disciplined so they and others don't cheat without knowing there will be consequences.  All I really want is as clean a sport as possible.  

[The Old Crow]

Tom Curran has also crawled out from under his rock citing Irsay's drug issue , and the Ravens Ray Rice issue to Deflategate. I don't think we need to remind Mr. Curran that the two examples he cited were personnel or personal issues, versus a team once again trying to gain a competitive advantage and skirt rules. You guys up in Boston just keep blaming everyone but Belichick and Brady. Read the rules Tommy- boy !

[PeterBowman]

Tom Curran has also crawled out from under his rock citing Irsay's drug issue , and the Ravens Ray Rice issue to Deflategate. I don't think we need to remind Mr. Curran that the two examples he cited were personnel or personal issues, versus a team once again trying to gain a competitive advantage and skirt rules. You guys up in Boston just keep blaming everyone but Belichick and Brady. Read the rules Tommy- boy !

Theyre like the Stepford Wives up there

[Bad Morty]

Tom Curran has also crawled out from under his rock citing Irsay's drug issue , and the Ravens Ray Rice issue to Deflategate. I don't think we need to remind Mr. Curran that the two examples he cited were personnel or personal issues, versus a team once again trying to gain a competitive advantage and skirt rules. You guys up in Boston just keep blaming everyone but Belichick and Brady. Read the rules Tommy- boy !

 

What are your thoughts on the reports coming out now that the balls weren't 2 PSI too low and all but one of them was within a range where weather would completely explain the drop? Interestingly enough, the only ball now being reported to be 2 PSI too low is the one the Colts had possession of for most of the first half.

[hawkeyes]

Also, I just want to point out, The Colts football's started out within regulation and were retested and were still within regulation. Meaning they never lost over 1 PSI. Patriots football's were outside that 1psi, regardless.

Sadly we have heard the talking points laid out - today Belichick took his defense further toughening his stance about their innocence.

His talking points are exactly what I expect from the NFL as they can not afford this "integrity" issue.

The talking points will likely be the Colts balls were all at 13.5 PSI and they lost 1# and ended up within the specs at 12.5 ... The Pats all start at 12.5 and lost the same 1# due entirely to the weather and they all come in at 11.5 all out of spec.

I do not believe any of that non-sense I believe the Pats intentionally deflated the balls and have been doing so the entire season, but without one of them saying yes we did that, or a video showing them doing it - its all speculation and they know that! Sadly they will walk away to cheat another day.

[ricker182]

I read it to say that the PSI would be less than 1.5 under. I read "closer to 2 than 1" to mean the # is closer to the # 1 rather than the #2. What you have above would simply be explained as less than 2. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post.

But it didn't say closer to 1 than 2. Just said closer to 1.

Regardless, I don't care anymore. I'm tired of seeing highlights of the Colts getting pounded.

[jabbanobadda]

Richard Sherman just called out the league saying that if they are found guilty that nothing will be done. He then said it's the the league they play in and would rather worry about Marshawn's shoes. I'm starting to like this guy.

[dw49]

But it didn't say closer to 1 than 2. Just said closer to 1.

Regardless, I don't care anymore. I'm tired of seeing highlights of the Colts getting pounded.

 

 

Not to beat it to death , but that's what would be inferred . If not they would be saying "less than the 2 reported."

[ColtsSouljah]

Obviously we're all sick of hearing about the Patriots. The one good thing here is that their "accomplishments" are absolutely tainted. They have become a total joke (literally). The vast majority of people outside of New England label them cheaters. The previous three championships got an asterisk (all the more so now that they've been shown to continue to cheat) and if they win next Sunday that one will absolute have an asterisk as well.

 

The SNL skit is one example. Here's another. I was in the Minneapolis / St Paul airport the day of Brady's interview. People were standing around laughing AT Brady and how absurd his wild claims were. LOTS of people. This was in Minnesota, not Indy or New York or Seattle.

 

I fear that Richard Sherman is absolutely dead on and the Goodell will do nothing. That will be very, very frustrating, BUT anyone who is honest has seen that the league has no integrity in this and that the Patriots are cheaters. The Patriots are going down just like the steroid users in MLB: their accomplishments will not be taken seriously.

[OffensivelyPC]

 Both sets of balls fall by 1 psi. If the colts balls started at 13.5, they would still be at 12.5 during/after the game. If the pats balls started at 12.5, they would be at 11.5 during/after the game.

Yet the Colts balls were never reinflated.  So logic would tell you that, by the end of the game, it would have been 11.5, yet accordign to all reports, Colts footballs were always withing the limits.  Patriots footballs however, apparently lost 1 PSI in the firs thalf and lost next to nothing in the colder second half.  No matter how you slice it, it Bill's explanation makes no sense.

[da_pats_troll]

Yet the Colts balls were never reinflated.  So logic would tell you that, by the end of the game, it would have been 11.5, yet accordign to all reports, Colts footballs were always withing the limits.  Patriots footballs however, apparently lost 1 PSI in the firs thalf and lost next to nothing in the colder second half.  No matter how you slice it, it Bill's explanation makes no sense.

 

No. This is incorrect. Pressure goes down to a certain point based on temperature. Once they reach that pressure, it does not continue to fall. Logic does not say that at all. 

[Gramz]

I found out the answer of who is behind it all....     

 

bahahahahahaha

[OffensivelyPC]

No. This is incorrect. Pressure goes down to a certain point based on temperature. Once they reach that pressure, it does not continue to fall. Logic does not say that at all. 

How is it not logical?  The higher the pressure, the less pressure it will have when the conditions change.  Under your theory, a 12.5 PSI football will lose less pressure than a 13.5 PSI football would if, all other conditions equal, went from a 72 degree room to the outdoors where it was 40 degrees because they reach that equilibrium pressure.  If anything, the Colts footballs should have lost more than 1 PSI in the first half.  Yet, the ydidn't.

[da_pats_troll]

How is it not logical?  The higher the pressure, the less pressure it will have when the conditions change.  Under your theory, a 12.5 PSI football will lose less pressure than a 13.5 PSI football would if, all other conditions equal, went from a 72 degree room to the outdoors where it was 40 degrees because they reach that equilibrium pressure.  If anything, the Colts footballs should have lost more than 1 PSI in the first half.  Yet, the ydidn't.

 

Please dont make me break out math Pressure and temperature changes are not "theory's", they are well proven.

[HOZER]

Just watched Swami interview tommy terrific at Pro Bowl halftime show, first question.....

"Has the NFL contacted you yet about Deflategate?" You could literally see the air being let out of ol' tommy boy, bahahahahahah, how embarrassing!!!!!!!

[Combsey]

I found this article rather interesting and it does seem to point out some rather strange statistics.

http://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2015/01/23/deflated-patriots-statistically-impossible-fumble-record/

[hawkeyes]

Just watched Swami interview tommy terrific at Pro Bowl halftime show, first question.....

"Has the NFL contacted you yet about Deflategate?" You could literally see the air being let out of ol' tommy boy, bahahahahahah, how embarrassing!!!!!!!

No better person to present a softball interview than swami - the biggest pats fan at espn.

[Shane Bond]

And why are only Colts fans in this thread. I miss my lovely fellow members Viridulant, taplook and MJD42's presence in this forum. Their deep insight about Pats are sorely missed.

[OffensivelyPC]

Please dont make me break out math Pressure and temperature changes are not "theory's", they are well proven.

Right, and what you seem to be insisting on is that the Patriots footballs were more affected by the weather than the Colts footballs.  At bare minimum, I'm not willign to accept that premise without your breaking out hte math.  Not that I don't think you are right or wrong, but I need more than just your word on it. 

[jvan1973]

Please dont make me break out math Pressure and temperature changes are not "theory's", they are well proven.

you're right. and it would have had to be below zero to have that much effect.

[JlynRN]

I still will keep the Colts Setup card on the table..

 

After this article, this smells to high heaven of Jim Irsay doing this as a setup:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000462315/article/dqwell-jackson-footballs-didnt-change-outcome

 

 

Here are some tidbits from the article:

 

 

This means that the supposed catalyst for this entire investigation that Kravitz reported was a LIE.  Kravitz is buddy buddy with Jim Irsay, and the way they've approached this makes it look like they had this planned all along.

 

Here is Jackson's take on the deflated balls (lol)

 

 

Then the story gets VERY interesting... 

 

 

So the Pats ended up with Colts footballs before half time...

 

Irsay had this planned since they got lambasted back in November..  I'd love it so much if they found camera footage of someone on the Colts swapping out balls or messing with the Patriots balls in some way.  Irsay's hate of the Patriots is well known and hes already proven to be someone of questionable character, so I think with this plot twist speculating that he could have framed the Pats is as much on the table as any other speculative opinion at this point.

 

Kravitz hammered home the fact that it was Jackson that brought it to the attention of the team and officials after his interception.. which was a total lie... it was also being used in arguments of "How could Jackson tell the football was deflated but Brady couldnt!? Brady is a liar!"

 

So there you have it.. Jackson NEVER felt a difference in the ball or reported ANYTHING..  this was planned dating back to November by Irsay and his cronies.

 

You heard it here first!

 

ROFL take the tin foil hat off !!!  the pats brought this on themselves !!!  There is absolutely NO integrity in the pats organization !!!  They need to suspend Belichick and shady brady for at least 1 year, force Kraft to sell the team and move them to LA !!!

[da_pats_troll]

Right, and what you seem to be insisting on is that the Patriots footballs were more affected by the weather than the Colts footballs.  At bare minimum, I'm not willign to accept that premise without your breaking out hte math.  Not that I don't think you are right or wrong, but I need more than just your word on it. 

 

hahah..ok. Hope I get this so its clear

 

first, I am not saying they were more or less effected, but equally effected. 

 

We start with 2 balls, one at 12.5 and one at 13.5 at room temp. 

 

we take those balls outside to a 50 degree temperature. They both fall 1 psi due to the temperature difference. At this point, they have fallen all they can to satisfy Gay-Lussac's Law. (p1/t1 = p2/t2) 

 

we now measure the psi and see that we have one at 11.5 and one at 12.5.

 

we pump up the lower one, and we have 2 balls @ 12.5 at the same temperature. Now we have 2 balls at the same pressure and temperature, which will then measure the same at the end of the game, as they both had the same starting state at the start of the second 1/2.

[Surge89]

They are cheaters. And I used to have a ton of respect for them. They need to be banned from the playoffs for 3 years just like USC.

[The Old Crow]

And why are only Colts fans in this thread. I miss my lovely fellow members Viridulant, taplook and MJD42's presence in this forum. Their deep insight about Pats are sorely missed.

They are ashamed to confront Bill Nye.

[schwamm]

If true, that is simply disturbing.

[coltsfansince65]

Shocking, simply shocking............NOT

[OffensivelyPC]

hahah..ok. Hope I get this so its clear

 

first, I am not saying they were more or less effected, but equally effected. 

 

We start with 2 balls, one at 12.5 and one at 13.5 at room temp. 

 

we take those balls outside to a 50 degree temperature. They both fall 1 psi due to the temperature difference. At this point, they have fallen all they can to satisfy Gay-Lussac's Law. (p1/t1 = p2/t2) 

 

we now measure the psi and see that we have one at 11.5 and one at 12.5.

 

we pump up the lower one, and we have 2 balls @ 12.5 at the same temperature. Now we have 2 balls at the same pressure and temperature, which will then measure the same at the end of the game, as they both had the same starting state at the start of the second 1/2.

There at least two huge assumptions at play here.  First and the biggest is, you are assuming that the baseline pressure outdoors for a football in any weather/temperature is 12.5 PSI.  The above equation supports your argument, but only if the football can go no lower than 12.5 PSI at 20 degrees F, which was the recorded low on game day.  More proof for that assertion is required.  

 

Second, you're assuming that the entire temperature drop from kickoff occurred in the first half and no temperature drop occurred after half time.  Again, we don't know the recorded PSI's of either team's footballs at half time or the end of the game, only that the Patriots footballs were brought within the compliance levels at half time and both team's footballs were within compliance levels at the end of the game.  Again, more proof is required, of the PSIs at half time and the end of the game to support that. 

[bap1331]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463274/article/tom-brady-expects-to-talk-with-nfl-after-super-bowl

 

he needs to gather his thoughts and make up a story...

 

also a comprehensive analysis of numbers around the league for fumbling and how the Patriots compare:

 

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-prevention-of-fumbles-is-nearly-impossible

 

Really interesting!

[ReMeDy]

So the Commissioner doesn't decide when to talk to Tom Brady. Tom Brady decides when to talk to the Commissioner. Got it.

[crazycolt1]

The NFL is not interested in punishing the Patriots. It's money they are worried about. The Patriot organization has no class and has no clue to what the meaning of integrity is. The sad part is most of the Patriot fans believe their team didn't do anything wrong. Most of them still think spygate was made up even though the NFL passed out the highest paid fine in it's history. I don't blame Goodell because he is just the mouthpiece for the owners and is a very well paid yes man. The thing I don't get is why the other owners put up with this. Is protecting the shield so important that fair play and integrity makes no difference?  I guess we will find out after the super bowl. I have always believed that right is right and wrong is wrong. It's stuff like this that makes me question this. If there is such a thing as karma and a football God let the Seahawks just win this game.

[ReMeDy]

The NFL is not interested in punishing the Patriots.

 

Richard Sherman agrees. He said as much when attesting to the fact Robert Craft and Roger Goodell are best friends who take photos at each other's places.

[SteelDragon]

I think Goodell has to address the scandal with a punitive measure. All eyes will be on him until justice is meted out. Failure to administer an appropriate fine and penalty is going to result in a very vocal outcry from fans, a lambasting in the media, and a black eye to the legitimacy of the league he oversees. Mr. Goodell, you sir, are on the clock...