Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)

[Derakynn]

Let me come here to arm you guys with more knowledge. There is no way that rubbing the football increased the PSI by that much. The ONLY feasible argument with that is that they rubbed it so vigorously that that the friction actually caused a massive temperature change of the gas inside the football (in case you aren't aware, pressure and temperature are inversely related).  Otherwise there is literally no way that makes any sense. In fact if you rubbed it that hard you are probably apply plenty of pressure which could in fact press air out of the ball, not somehow suck more air in. 

[da_pats_troll]

I would really like to see a video of how some ball boy raises the PSI a point by rubbing the football. I did see a video of "another" scientist laughing at that one. 

 

rubbing --> friction --> heat --> increased psi.  That part is pretty basic stuff. 

[dw49]

Here's a real scientist commenting on rubbing up the air pressure of a ball...

 

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-didnt-make-any-sense-in-press-conference

[da_pats_troll]

Here's a real scientist commenting on rubbing up the air pressure of a ball...

 

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-didnt-make-any-sense-in-press-conference

 

heh, did you ever in your wildest dream think you would point to Bill Nyes in a football thread?

[dw49]

heh, did you ever in your wildest dream think you would point to Bill Nyes in a football thread?

 

 

Nope. Can yon imagine watching  that ball boy going crazy on those balls to get the PSI up a point ? 

[dw49]

rubbing --> friction --> heat --> increased psi.  That part is pretty basic stuff. 

 

 

LOL .... really LOL. Me thinks it would take some really vigorous rubbing....and so does the "other scientist."

[da_pats_troll]

LOL .... really LOL. Me thinks it would take some really vigorous rubbing....and so does the "other scientist."

 

Pats ball boy

[dw49]

Pats ball boy

 

 

 

Good one... I like that response . 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/01/24/twitter-lampoons-bill-belichick-after-deflategate-press-conference-on-saturday/

[IndyD4U]

Gotta love Bill Nye

http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-is-full-of-1681658679?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[Cynjin]

Gotta love Bill Nye

http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-is-full-of-1681658679?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

I always liked Bill Nye.

[Gramz]

 

 

Not to mention it was probably a sting operation anyway with Harbaugh/Irsay thinking "If you can't beat them, make a mockery of them." 

  I think the Pats are doing a fine job all by themselves  "making a mockery of themselves"  ;)

[NewColtsFan]

D'qwell Jackson said it.

They actually had to find a usable ball in the first half.

http://www.businessinsider.com/dqwell-jackson-patriots-used-colts-balls-2015-1

http://deadspin.com/colts-player-officials-stopped-using-patriots-balls-in-1681329925

I know they aren't the best sources but they're quoting a player. That's why I said I heard rather than stating it as fact.

There was definitely a lot of ball swapping in the first half.

 

Thanks for the links....

 

Your post that I responded to says the Pats used the Colts' footballs in the 2nd half.

 

As best as I can tell,   the first link -- Business Insiders -- doesn't say that.    Only that the Pats balls were pulled from use late in the 1st half and not just at half as first reported.

 

The second link -- Deadspin -- I think is saying the same thing,  but it's written much more poorly.    I've yet to see that the Pats used the Colts' footballs throughout the rest of the game.     Just that they were pulled from the game in the 1st half to be checked at halftime.

 

Anyway.....  at this point,  it's all neither here nor there....  I don't think Belichick or Brady have helped their cause.   I think they've been found cheating.   And at some point after the SB,  the NFL will drop the hammer on them.

 

Thanks for posting those links.   Really appreciate you find them for me.    Much appreciated.  

[hawkeyes]

I don't think Belichick or Brady have helped their cause.   I think they've been found cheating.   And at some point after the SB,  the NFL will drop the hammer on them.

Bellichick stated he is done talking about the subject for a long time ... to him the issue is over; well at least he tried to convince anyone gullible enough to buy into his reasoning that its over. ;)

[Gramz]

Let's face it.  This isn't about Deflate-Gate or Spygate.  It's about the fact that the Patriots never have an off-year like 99.9 percent of teams.  It's because Belichick isn't some nice guy to the media.  It's because the Patriots beat every team not named the Giants into oblivion.

 

I know, I felt the same way about the Yankees until they stopped being relevant.  If the Pats went 8-8 for a few seasons and this happened it would be a non issue.  It was a non issue when the Panthers were caught red-handed on TV manipulating their footballs earlier this year.

 

It's just hatred that this team keeps winning and being competitive so they point fingers.  It's like that song Dirty Laundry, "Kick em when they're up, kick em when they're down."

 

People also want to deflect blame for their team losing, and can't lose with dignity, so they point fingers and complain to the league instead of just improving and trying to get better.

 

Think about it, even IF by some chance the Patriots manipulated the footballs, did it have any outcome on the game?  Colts players said they would have lost if they had played with beachballs.

 

We're not talking Ray Lewis stuff here.

 

Not to mention it was probably a sting operation anyway with Harbaugh/Irsay thinking "If you can't beat them, make a mockery of them." 

My post in response to yours isn't just directed at you.  It is directed at the all the Patriot fans across the internet that share your opinion that all this was brought upon by the Colts being sore losers to the point where some are even accusing the Colts of setting up the Patriots. The amount of hypocrisy and smugness in that just boggles my brain.  

 

In 2007, Kraft asked for an investigation because he felt that the Colts were piping in noise.  The results of the investigation showed that the weird noise that was heard was the result of an audio glitch by CBS.

 

Kraft asked for that investigation despite the fact that the Patriots had won the game, 24-20.  Does that make the Patriots sore winners? Were they upset because the margin of victory wasn't large enough so (to use your words), they pointed their finger and complained to the league?

 

My answers to those questions are NO.  Just the same as the Colts, the Patriots were asking that the league look into something that would have violated the rules. The Colts have just as much right to do that as the Patriots and it amazes me that Patriot fans can't seem to understand that.

[Hoosier]

"If you put it in the moisture with the hot air, then what happens is that some of the air — which is moist water — it could condense and then it could even more rapidly lose pressure," Jung said. "They may consider it not illegal, but if they actually did it, does that really pass the moral test?"

Hmm...

Inflate the balls to the proper PSI, but do it in such a way that they deflate on their own? Technically, you never "let" any air out.

Plausible deniability?

Oh, wait...their denial hasn't been plausible.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Here's a real scientist commenting on rubbing up the air pressure of a ball...

 

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-didnt-make-any-sense-in-press-conference

 

Bill Nye is not a real scientist.  He plays one on TV.  However, in this case he is right.

[dw49]

Bill Nye is not a real scientist.  He plays one on TV.  However, in this case he is right.

 

 

Joke's on me as I didn't know that

[AndreRison]

that doesn't equal -2 psi

Yeah, that might be the 3rd or 4th time AM has tried to pass off a convuluted scenario where 1 1/2 = 2. I think she's being intellectually dishonest. She thinks people are gonna jumble the math and say "Oh that's so confusing, but she must be right. I change my mind.". Kinda like Billy B did yesterday at his news conference.

[ponyboy]

i thought you don't bet? Plus you are hoping. They still have to answer to the fact the colts balls didn't lose pressure

 

Bill brought up Mona Lisa Vito.  So in the spirit of My Cousin Vinny, some reporter should have asked him "if the laws of physics cease to exist on the opponents side line"... especially after his explanation of weather conditions affecting PSI.

[The Old Crow]

heh, did you ever in your wildest dream think you would point to Bill Nyes in a football thread?

Next Belichick will be referencing Captain Kangaroo in his next press conference about PSI.

[IndyD4U]

Bill Nye is not a real scientist. He plays one on TV. However, in this case he is right.

Really? You may want to research a little bit. He's definitely not just an actor

[jvan1973]

Bill Nye is not a real scientist. He plays one on TV. However, in this case he is right.

he is a mechanical engineer

[da_pats_troll]

Really? You may want to research a little bit. He's definitely not just an actor

 

I think he is a mech engineer that worked for Boeing for a time, started doing training video's for them, then got into science education. 

[OffensivelyPC]

he is a mechanical engineer

the study of which includes thermal dynamics, the exact science to which bill Belichick was "lecturing" everyone on saturday.

[Gramz]

I think he is a mech engineer that worked for Boeing for a time, started doing training video's for them, then got into science education. 

William Sanford "Bill" Nye (born November 27, 1955), popularly known as Bill Nye the Science Guy, is an American science educator, comedian, television host, actor, writer, scientist, and former mechanical engineer, best known as the host of the Disney/PBS children's science show Bill Nye the Science Guy (1993–98) and for his many subsequent appearances in popular media as a science educator.

[NFLfan]

I found this article helpful in better understanding what Belichick was trying to sell us. While the writer demonstrates that cold temperatures will affect the pressure in a football, he explains that it would have to be much colder than it was last Sunday. He also touches on the benefits of throwing/receiving an under-inflated football.

Football physics and the science of Deflategate

Excerpts from the article:

"So, you can use temperature changes to produce the pressure change seen by investigators, but the temperature required would've matched the legendary Ice Bowl of 1967. Last Sunday's game was played in pouring rain at about 50F, so unless they did the pre-game testing of the balls in a sauna, or the post-game investigation in a meat locker, thermodynamics alone can't get the Patriots off the hook....

In the end, the reason for deflating a football owes more to physiology than physics. A slightly deflated ball is a bit softer, making it easier to grip the ball to throw it and reducing the bounce when it hits the hands of a receiver, making it easier to catch. We can see this even with frozen footballs—although the cold makes the leather stiffer, the balls had noticeably more give when squeezed than before they went in the freezer. In cool, rainy conditions, where the ball becomes wet and slippery, this works to the advantage of the quarterback and receivers."

http://m.phys.org/news/2015-01-football-physics-science-deflategate.html

[da_pats_troll]

Yeah, that might be the 3rd or 4th time AM has tried to pass off a convuluted scenario where 1 1/2 = 2. I think she's being intellectually dishonest. She thinks people are gonna jumble the math and say "Oh that's so confusing, but she must be right. I change my mind.". Kinda like Billy B did yesterday at his news conference.

 

Sources are now leaking that it wasnt 2 psi, but 1. NFL trying to back-peddle now?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

 

 

 

But what has the NFL really found?  As one league source has explained it to PFT, the football intercepted by Colts linebacker D’Qwell Jackson was roughly two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum.  The other 10 balls that reportedly were two pounds under may have been, as the source explained it, closer to one pound below 12.5 PSI.

[Cynjin]

Sources are now leaking that it wasnt 2 psi, but 1. NFL trying to back-peddle now?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

The NFL should just release what they have found. The more they let this drag on the worse it is.

[da_pats_troll]

The NFL should just release what they have found. The more they let this drag on the worse it is.

 

Amen.

[ricker182]

Thanks for the links....

 

Your post that I responded to says the Pats used the Colts' footballs in the 2nd half.

 

As best as I can tell,   the first link -- Business Insiders -- doesn't say that.    Only that the Pats balls were pulled from use late in the 1st half and not just at half as first reported.

 

The second link -- Deadspin -- I think is saying the same thing,  but it's written much more poorly.    I've yet to see that the Pats used the Colts' footballs throughout the rest of the game.     Just that they were pulled from the game in the 1st half to be checked at halftime.

 

Anyway.....  at this point,  it's all neither here nor there....  I don't think Belichick or Brady have helped their cause.   I think they've been found cheating.   And at some point after the SB,  the NFL will drop the hammer on them.

 

Thanks for posting those links.   Really appreciate you find them for me.    Much appreciated.  

LIke I said it's word of mouth from Jackson: 

 

"Jackson does, however, recall one interesting moment during the first half that has something to do with the latest controversy. He recalls, during a television timeout, there was an especially long delay that prompted him to approach an official.

The game official mentioned something about their efforts to locate a usable football. Shortly after, Jackson noticed that the Patriots were using the Colts' footballs late in the first half. Jackson said it was odd to him that New England couldn't find a football to use, especially in the AFC Championship Game."

[ricker182]

Sources are now leaking that it wasnt 2 psi, but 1. NFL trying to back-peddle now?

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/25/nfl-bears-plenty-of-blame-for-deflategate/

 So.... 1.9 PSI below? 

[da_pats_troll]

 So.... 1.9 PSI below? 

 

I'm not an expert on footballs, and I didnt stay in a Holiday Inn last nite, but I can with every confidence say 1.9 is not closer to 1 then 2.

[bap1331]

Says bill belichicks explanation doesnt make any sense and only way to deflate a football is by putting a needle inside regardless of weather condition. Best guy to reference lol.

He shouldve been hired as the investigator!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZFiYxI3DFM

[COLTS449]

LOL, I love Bill Nye.

[ColtsSouljah]

WHAT?! Bill's explanation didn't make SENSE?! But the patriots fans said he totally nailed it.

[Fx Stryker]

lmao Bill Nye

Every kid who grew up in the 90s is now against the Patriots, even Patriot fans. You DON'T argue against Bill Nye.

[Blue Horseshoe]

the study of which includes thermal dynamics, the exact science to which bill Belichick was "lecturing" everyone on saturday.

 

Why not get a real thermodynamics expert from MIT (deep in the heart of Patriot territory) to show what a complete sham Belichick's excuse is instead of some celebrity who is not an expert in the field? (and who lived for several years in Seattle)

[ricker182]

I'm not an expert on footballs, and I didnt stay in a Holiday Inn last nite, but I can with every confidence say 1.9 is not closer to 1 then 2.

The way it was worded is that closer to 1 from 2 would be 1.9.

So 1.8 is closer to 1 than 1.9.

IDK. I'll just wait for the NFL to say what they have to say. Everyone seems to be in a different page.

[Dustin]

Bill Nye said Bill Belichick is full of it. 

[dw49]

Why not get a real thermodynamics expert from MIT (deep in the heart of Patriot territory) to show what a complete sham Belichick's excuse is instead of some celebrity who is not an expert in the field? (and who lived for several years in Seattle)

 

 

I think because no one is providing the information to let this happen at this point in time. They haven't even divulged what the officials read the PSI's to read. I would think this will happen as part of the investigation but not now