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Speculation Thread: What do you think happened at Deflategate? (Merge)


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Made up accusations with no foundation to them...that's not a scandal...it's a witch hunt.

Just like last time when the coach was fined , and they lost a draft pick. No witch hunt, facts. The other fact is the Patriots had deflated footballs under the same weather conditions as the Colts. Fact, not fiction.

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Just like last time when the coach was fined , and they lost a draft pick. No witch hunt, facts. The other fact is the Patriots had deflated footballs under the same weather conditions as the Colts. Fact, not fiction.

 

People have forgotten spygate completely if they are comparing it to this. The Patriots never once angrily denied the allegations. They were caught, they confessed, they took the punishment. This situation is 180 degrees different. And if you want fact, not fiction, it's this: having balls that test deflated at the half is NOT a violation. Tampering with the game balls would be a violation. So there's your facts...

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Made up accusations with no foundation to them...that's not a scandal...it's a witch hunt.

Dude, you're late to the party.  We've already gotten past the "no proof" part of the conversation in the middle of hte 75 page thread covering the same topic.  You can go there and figure out where we are in the conversation and then come back so you don't have to so 3 days ago.

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You weren't paying attention to Spygate if you heard that. The Pats admitted to that and accepted their punishment. Bob Kraft is no dummy. If he's throwing out what he threw out tonight, you can bet that he's doing it knowing that the accusations the media have been irresponsibly tossing around thanks to the incompetence of the league when it comes to keeping leaks in house are false. So unless you or someone else has actual hard evidence that the Patriots tampered with the game balls, the slander needs to stop.

Well if it proves to be unfounded accusations then I guess we'll hear about that too.  But this is how every single story in the NFL plays out.  Trial by public opinion is brutal.

 

Talk isn't going to stop just because there has not been evidence presented.  It never does.  Anyway, I'm sure all parties tabled this till the super bowl was over.  

 

Just have to turn off the media and the forums if you don't want to hear about it

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You weren't paying attention to Spygate if you heard that. The Pats admitted to that and accepted their punishment. Bob Kraft is no dummy. If he's throwing out what he threw out tonight, you can bet that he's doing it knowing that the accusations the media have been irresponsibly tossing around thanks to the incompetence of the league when it comes to keeping leaks in house are false. So unless you or someone else has actual hard evidence that the Patriots tampered with the game balls, the slander needs to stop.

The balls were tampered with. Even the manufacture of the balls has said the atmospheric pressure angle is bunk. Now, the pats need to explain why. Most teams might get the benefit of doubt, but due to past transgressions the patriots aren't one of those teams

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People have forgotten spygate completely if they are comparing it to this. The Patriots never once angrily denied the allegations. They were caught, they confessed, they took the punishment. This situation is 180 degrees different. And if you want fact, not fiction, it's this: having balls that test deflated at the half is NOT a violation. Tampering with the game balls would be a violation. So there's your facts...

How did they get that way when the Colts footballs never had issues ? The last time something like this happened, your owner asked Belichick if taping defensive signals help them from 1 to 100. When Belichick said one, Kraft called him a *. That's a fact. Now you ask us to believe an owner who called this coach a * last time for taking ridiculous chances to get any edge possible ?

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Well if it proves to be unfounded accusations then I guess we'll hear about that too.  But this is how every single story in the NFL plays out.  Trial by public opinion is brutal.

 

Talk isn't going to stop just because there has not been evidence presented.  It never does.  Anyway, I'm sure all parties tabled this till the super bowl was over.  

 

Just have to turn off the media and the forums if you don't want to hear about it

 

My issue is with the league for being irresponsible and leaking inaccurate or conflicitng info and the media, who are acting like jealous fans in running with these stories. I don't have a problem reading it at all. I just think a LOT of people are going to look real foolish when this is all said and done.

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How did they get that way when the Colts footballs never had issues ? The last time something like this happened, your owner asked Belichick if taping defensive signals help them from 1 to 100. When Belichick said one, Kraft called him a *. That's a fact. Now you ask us to believe an owner who called this coach a * last time for taking ridiculous chances to get any edge possible ?

 

I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm just giving you my opinion. I think you are taking a lot of things as "fact" that really aren't quite facts yet but rather leaked information that hasn't been confirmed by the league. This story hasn't made any sense since it broke. The risks involved in sticking a needle in a ball are enormous...far too enormous compared to the extremely minimal benefit. It would be the easiest thing in the world to be caught at...so with every day that goes by without a smoking gun piece of evidence proving they did it, it becomes less and less likely that they did. And with the principles involved making such strong denials here that would permanently ruin them if proven to be lies, that even further decreases the odds of any tampering. These people aren't dumb, and when caught in a previous issue, they demonstrated the smarts to admit it and move on. So my opinion is that there was no tampering with the balls. I guess we'll see if the league has anything, but it sure is looking like they don't.

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I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm just giving you my opinion. I think you are taking a lot of things as "fact" that really aren't quite facts yet but rather leaked information that hasn't been confirmed by the league. This story hasn't made any sense since it broke. The risks involved in sticking a needle in a ball are enormous...far too enormous compared to the extremely minimal benefit. It would be the easiest thing in the world to be caught at...so with every day that goes by without a smoking gun piece of evidence proving they did it, it becomes less and less likely that they did. And with the principles involved making such strong denials here that would permanently ruin them if proven to be lies, that even further decreases the odds of any tampering. These people aren't dumb, and when caught in a previous issue, they demonstrated the smarts to admit it and move on. So my opinion is that there was no tampering with the balls. I guess we'll see if the league has anything, but it sure is looking like they don't.

the investigation is ongoing. They aren't even interviewing players and coaches until after the superbowl

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the investigation is ongoing. They aren't even interviewing players and coaches until after the superbowl

 

Well according to that updated "who believes the Pats" map above, this is only still a question here in Indiana and in Seattle. So I guess that pretty much says all you need to know.

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Well according to that updated "who believes the Pats" map above, this is only still a question here in Indiana and in Seattle. So I guess that pretty much says all you need to know.

Yeah, that's not how investigations are conducted.. Maybe in Massachusetts, but not the rest of the country

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I'm not asking you to believe anything. I'm just giving you my opinion. I think you are taking a lot of things as "fact" that really aren't quite facts yet but rather leaked information that hasn't been confirmed by the league. This story hasn't made any sense since it broke. The risks involved in sticking a needle in a ball are enormous...far too enormous compared to the extremely minimal benefit. It would be the easiest thing in the world to be caught at...so with every day that goes by without a smoking gun piece of evidence proving they did it, it becomes less and less likely that they did. And with the principles involved making such strong denials here that would permanently ruin them if proven to be lies, that even further decreases the odds of any tampering. These people aren't dumb, and when caught in a previous issue, they demonstrated the smarts to admit it and move on. So my opinion is that there was no tampering with the balls. I guess we'll see if the league has anything, but it sure is looking like they don't.

The problem is this organization has no credibility. After spygate, Belichick promised things would be streamlined, so something like this wouldn't happen again. Well , it has. I guess we will have to wait for the NFL to complete its investigation, the same NFL that destroyed the tapes in Spygate, with a shaky commissioner indebted to the Patriots regime.

What you need to understand is the Patriots must supply the burden of proof to turn their reputation around, not everyone else. They lost the benefit of the doubt after spygate , and it's on them to rehabilitate their reputation. They need to have a rational explanation why their balls weren't in specifications , and not putting the burden on others to catch them red handed.

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And now the afternoon video story fizzles. Florio reporting that the video of the ballboy was provided by the Pats early in the investigation and shows the following:

 

The ballboy took the bag which contained BOTH the Colts and Pats balls, went into a bathroom stall and was in there for approximately 90 seconds. So I guess in 90 seconds, he fished out all of the Pats balls, deflated them, and put them back in circulation. Lol.

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And now the afternoon video story fizzles. Florio reporting that the video of the ballboy was provided by the Pats early in the investigation and shows the following:

 

The ballboy took the bag which contained BOTH the Colts and Pats balls, went into a bathroom stall and was in there for approximately 90 seconds. So I guess in 90 seconds, he fished out all of the Pats balls, deflated them, and put them back in circulation. Lol.

Yeah, that would much preferred to taking out 12 footballs and swapping them with 12 different footballs.

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And now the afternoon video story fizzles. Florio reporting that the video of the ballboy was provided by the Pats early in the investigation and shows the following:

The ballboy took the bag which contained BOTH the Colts and Pats balls, went into a bathroom stall and was in there for approximately 90 seconds. So I guess in 90 seconds, he fished out all of the Pats balls, deflated them, and put them back in circulation. Lol.

Why would he take the balls into a bathroom stall ? Wouldn't he have someone watch the balls when he took care of his business ? Can you fit 24 balls and a ballboy in a bathroom stall ? Usually , when you take something is a bathroom stall its fishy, like smoking in seventh grade with the Mother Superior breathing down your neck !

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Why would he take the balls into a bathroom stall ? Wouldn't he have someone watch the balls when he took care of his business ? Can you fit 24 balls and a ballboy in a bathroom stall ? Usually , when you take something is a bathroom stall its fishy, like smoking in seventh grade with the Mother Superior breathing down your neck !

 

Ha! Well sadly, I have a feeling that if we tune in to ESPN tomorrow morning, we're going to see video of somebody trying to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom stall while taking a leak!

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The point being, of course, that he wasn't in there nearly long enough to have deflated a dozen balls. He might just had had to take a leak.

What difference does it make if he deflates the footballs or substitutes properly inflated footballs with footballs inflated well under the psi limit?  It's still deceptive, it's still wrong doign, and taking 12 footballs out of one bag and putting 12 different footballs in their place can be done in well under 90 seconds if you've got a one working eye (two is preferred for depth perception...it makes things go a bit quicker) and at least one functioning hand.

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Ha! Well sadly, I have a feeling that if we tune in to ESPN tomorrow morning, we're going to see video of somebody trying to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom stall while taking a leak!

Morty, seriously don't you think an equipment guy taking balls into a closed bathroom stall is suspicious ? I haven't even heard this report yet, but if true, it's a bad indicator in the chain of custody of the footballs. We have to ask Bill Nye is someone can go into a bathroom stall, and deflate 11 of 12 footballs in 90 seconds.

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Morty, seriously don't you think an equipment guy taking balls into a closed bathroom stall is suspicious ? I haven't even heard this report yet, but if true, it's a bad indicator in the chain of custody of the footballs. We have to ask Bill Nye is someone can go into a bathroom stall, and deflate 11 of 12 footballs in 90 seconds.

 

The story says the guy went to the officials room, grabbed 2 large bags of footballs (Colts and Pats), headed back to the field. Diverted to the stall (bathroom didn't have a urinal - just one stall)...was in there for 90 seconds, then out. That kind of just sounds like a guy who needs to take a leak. There's no way the guy is going to fish out 12 footballs, deflate them 2 psi each, re-bag them, then head back out in 90 seconds. Also, this video was discovered by the Pats and turned over...so Kraft knew exaxtly what was on that video when he handed it over to the investigators. I just don't think there's any smoking gun to be found here. And look - I would not put it past the Pats at all to have figured out a way to treat the balls beforehand such that they deflated naturally. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but if so that's not against the rules, though it would be shady if intentional. But all they are obligated to do is provide balls up front that test out to 12.5 and then not tamper with them. If they deflate in the elements, either by scheme or just because of nature, that's just the way it goes until the league changes the rules.

 

Also - to the guy who theorized about "swapping out the balls"...I'm pretty sure the refs mark the balls after they test them, so there's no way they could switch them without the refs noticing.

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Ha! Well sadly, I have a feeling that if we tune in to ESPN tomorrow morning, we're going to see video of somebody trying to deflate 12 balls in a bathroom stall while taking a leak!

Tomorrow instead of Les Airington, we will see the ballboy bathroom stall adventures of Otto Sema Doody !

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The story says the guy went to the officials room, grabbed 2 large bags of footballs (Colts and Pats), headed back to the field. Diverted to the stall (bathroom didn't have a urinal - just one stall)...was in there for 90 seconds, then out. That kind of just sounds like a guy who needs to take a leak. There's no way the guy is going to fish out 12 footballs, deflate them 2 psi each, re-bag them, then head back out in 90 seconds. Also, this video was discovered by the Pats and turned over...so Kraft knew exaxtly what was on that video when he handed it over to the investigators. I just don't think there's any smoking gun to be found here. And look - I would not put it past the Pats at all to have figured out a way to treat the balls beforehand such that they deflated naturally. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but if so that's not against the rules, though it would be shady if intentional. But all they are obligated to do is provide balls up front that test out to 12.5 and then not tamper with them. If they deflate in the elements, either by scheme or just because of nature, that's just the way it goes until the league changes the rules.

Also - to the guy who theorized about "swapping out the balls"...I'm pretty sure the refs mark the balls after they test them, so there's no way they could switch them without the refs noticing.

Interesting. The stories just keep getting more intriguing.

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I'll raise you a 64% of the world thinks Patriots are cheaters

http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=sportsnation&pollId=4674920

Gotta love polls. We'll have to revisit this one. So I'm hearing that the Patriots have a "culture of cheating". They've only broken one rule in the Belichick era as far as I can remember.

 

I wonder why ESPN has been keeping Tedy Bruschi off the air? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/tedy-bruschi-rips-marty-hurney-for-culture-of-cheating-remarks/

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The story says the guy went to the officials room, grabbed 2 large bags of footballs (Colts and Pats), headed back to the field. Diverted to the stall (bathroom didn't have a urinal - just one stall)...was in there for 90 seconds, then out. That kind of just sounds like a guy who needs to take a leak. There's no way the guy is going to fish out 12 footballs, deflate them 2 psi each, re-bag them, then head back out in 90 seconds. Also, this video was discovered by the Pats and turned over...so Kraft knew exaxtly what was on that video when he handed it over to the investigators. I just don't think there's any smoking gun to be found here. And look - I would not put it past the Pats at all to have figured out a way to treat the balls beforehand such that they deflated naturally. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but if so that's not against the rules, though it would be shady if intentional. But all they are obligated to do is provide balls up front that test out to 12.5 and then not tamper with them. If they deflate in the elements, either by scheme or just because of nature, that's just the way it goes until the league changes the rules.

 

Also - to the guy who theorized about "swapping out the balls"...I'm pretty sure the refs mark the balls after they test them, so there's no way they could switch them without the refs noticing.

 

The bolded is just the type of thing people are sick & tired of ... being shady, seeing what they can get away with.  Everyone knows even if it was not specifically spelled out in the rules what the "spirit of the rule was".  Even if what they did was not technically against the rules they knew it was bad or they would not have went to such lengths to cover it up.  Teams, fans, etc ... don't like that they are always trying to exploit a loop holes and, seeing just how far they can bend the rules without breaking "technically" breaking them ... its bad sportsmanship and reflects badly on the sport.

 

For the record I think they cheated outright and did not just exploit a loophole, but I find it interesting that 99% of Pats fans seem to be perfectly fine with these tactics.

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Gotta love polls. We'll have to revisit this one. So I'm hearing that the Patriots have a "culture of cheating". They've only broken one rule in the Belichick era as far as I can remember.

 

I wonder why ESPN has been keeping Tedy Bruschi off the air? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/26/tedy-bruschi-rips-marty-hurney-for-culture-of-cheating-remarks/

Well, in fairness, Bruschi is a terrible.  I'm not sure how even Patriots fans like the guy.

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The story says the guy went to the officials room, grabbed 2 large bags of footballs (Colts and Pats), headed back to the field. Diverted to the stall (bathroom didn't have a urinal - just one stall)...was in there for 90 seconds, then out. That kind of just sounds like a guy who needs to take a leak. There's no way the guy is going to fish out 12 footballs, deflate them 2 psi each, re-bag them, then head back out in 90 seconds. Also, this video was discovered by the Pats and turned over...so Kraft knew exaxtly what was on that video when he handed it over to the investigators. I just don't think there's any smoking gun to be found here. And look - I would not put it past the Pats at all to have figured out a way to treat the balls beforehand such that they deflated naturally. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but if so that's not against the rules, though it would be shady if intentional. But all they are obligated to do is provide balls up front that test out to 12.5 and then not tamper with them. If they deflate in the elements, either by scheme or just because of nature, that's just the way it goes until the league changes the rules.

 

Also - to the guy who theorized about "swapping out the balls"...I'm pretty sure the refs mark the balls after they test them, so there's no way they could switch them without the refs noticing.

Just thought I'd post this for you.  Deflating 12 footballs by 1-2 PSI in 90 seconds easily doable.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/how-serious-is-deflate-gate--a-yahoo-sports-equipment-investigation-155529889.html;_ylt=A0LEV719LsdUxFUAjnEnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByZHI5MXByBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--

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People are acting like it isn't plausible.

Well, people have been doign all these catching tests to see if tehy feel a difference, temperature tests, etc.  I'm sure in the coming days we'll see some reenactments on the 12 footballs deflated in 90 seconds as well.  But this video is more than I've seen from anyone that has said yo ucan't deflate 12 footballs in 90 seconds.  Not to mention the guy doing this is, in all likelihood, a guy who has gotten lots of practice at doing this quickly.

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My issue is with the league for being irresponsible and leaking inaccurate or conflicitng info and the media, who are acting like jealous fans in running with these stories. I don't have a problem reading it at all. I just think a LOT of people are going to look real foolish when this is all said and done.

I don't know that the league has been irresponsible.  But, as you say, we'll wait and see.

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And now the afternoon video story fizzles. Florio reporting that the video of the ballboy was provided by the Pats early in the investigation and shows the following:

 

The ballboy took the bag which contained BOTH the Colts and Pats balls, went into a bathroom stall and was in there for approximately 90 seconds. So I guess in 90 seconds, he fished out all of the Pats balls, deflated them, and put them back in circulation. Lol.

 

 

I highly doubt all 24 balls were contained within the same bag.  How can the Ball boy determine which balls go to Luck and and those that go to Brady when he reaches the sideline?  Can't ask Brady, he says he can't tell the difference {snort}.

 

There were two bags of 12 balls each, I'm quite certain.  I can bet a pressure gauge with a bleed valve would allow someone (especially one very familiar with the footballs in question) to insert and bleed off a pound or two PSI quite quickly.  Smart of them to disappear where no cameras were though.  But why at that moment?  Why not just before doing your job of delivering the footballs, or deliver them then go do your business (if that is what people are saying happened?)

 

It' is more suspicious activity from an organization littered with shady acts and circumstances. I remember how detailed Ted Wells report after BullyGate was (including ever tweet ever sent). I can't wait a few weeks down the road to read ever freaking detail of what went down at the AFCCG and maybe even weeks, or months, possibly even years? before... ??  I'll read the whole thing, for sure.

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The story says the guy went to the officials room, grabbed 2 large bags of footballs (Colts and Pats), headed back to the field. Diverted to the stall (bathroom didn't have a urinal - just one stall)...was in there for 90 seconds, then out. That kind of just sounds like a guy who needs to take a leak. There's no way the guy is going to fish out 12 footballs, deflate them 2 psi each, re-bag them, then head back out in 90 seconds. Also, this video was discovered by the Pats and turned over...so Kraft knew exaxtly what was on that video when he handed it over to the investigators. I just don't think there's any smoking gun to be found here. And look - I would not put it past the Pats at all to have figured out a way to treat the balls beforehand such that they deflated naturally. I don't know if that's what happened or not, but if so that's not against the rules, though it would be shady if intentional. But all they are obligated to do is provide balls up front that test out to 12.5 and then not tamper with them. If they deflate in the elements, either by scheme or just because of nature, that's just the way it goes until the league changes the rules.

 

Also - to the guy who theorized about "swapping out the balls"...I'm pretty sure the refs mark the balls after they test them, so there's no way they could switch them without the refs noticing.

 

That bolded part above is more like it.  You didn't clarify that earlier.  And yes, a gauge with bleed valve can accomplish this easy.  Refs have to do this pre game.  I'm sure the equipment they use is much better than a plastic hand pump and metal needle  and guess work/feel test all of the fans do to fill their 'official size and weight' NFL replica footballs.

 

And others don't put it past the Pats to have the person of interest take the balls to an area that is illegal to video in and have them tamper with them knowing iron fist evidence cannot be had.  But maybe investigators can find other evidence to figure what went down in that time frame. 

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I don't know that the league has been irresponsible.  But, as you say, we'll wait and see.

Irresponsible? I wouldn't use that word. The words I would use include, but are not limited to;

 

Unethical.

 

Greedy.

 

Stalling.

 

Underhanded.

 

Improper.

 

Avarice.

 

A multi-billion dollar conglomerate that can't resolve a simple investigation of an incident which has brought into question the integrity of their product, and they cannot solve this mystery quickly?

 

It should've taken 15 minutes during halftime of the AFCCG for the NFL to ask the Patriots "What the hell are you guys trying to pull here"? Come out, blow the whistle, game over, Colts win by default. Patriots cheated. This is what we've all been taught since childhood, that whatever you gain while cheating is taken away. Cheaters never win? Really? They don't? 

 

The NFL has all these campaigns to teach kids to eat healthy, get exercise and play "heads up" football, yet they seem to go out of their way to teach kids that cheaters can win. How about "Heads in our rears" football? You can get caught cheating [obviously] and they launch a LONG investigation and allow NE to win. But if Marshawn Lynch comes out of the half with gold colored shoes, he's banned from the game. Really? 

 

If the NFL had even a whisper of knowledge about the suspicions of the Colts before this game, if what we've heard is true and they were tipped off ahead of time, than this whole investigation is a joke. This matter should've been resolved at halftime when they were caught cheating. Instead, we have the NFL obviously stalling to make sure this issue doesn't get resolved until their Super Bowl is well past. They don't want this matter to affect their profits, sponsors, and viewership. 

 

A cheater is playing in the Super Bowl this year. Why anyone is going to watch this years SB is beyond me. Why would we? 

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That bolded part above is more like it.  You didn't clarify that earlier.  And yes, a gauge with bleed valve can accomplish this easy.  Refs have to do this pre game.  I'm sure the equipment they use is much better than a plastic hand pump and metal needle  and guess work/feel test all of the fans do to fill their 'official size and weight' NFL replica footballs.

 

And others don't put it past the Pats to have the person of interest take the balls to an area that is illegal to video in and have them tamper with them knowing iron fist evidence cannot be had.  But maybe investigators can find other evidence to figure what went down in that time frame. 

Empirical evidence isn't needed here. This isn't a court of law. Your employer wouldn't need half as much circumstantial to throw your butt out forever. Not even a fraction of this much circumstantial evidence. .....

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