PFT Reporting Davis To Sign With Another Team

[Gavin]

Same question. What patriots WR can top Davis?

Depends on what you mean by top Davis

[ColtsLegacy]

Same question. What patriots WR can top Davis?

 

Tom Brady

[1959Colts]

Vontae Davis - DB - Colts

 

TFY Draft Insider Tony Pauline reports "word amongst insiders" is the Jets are "going hard" after free agent CB Vontae Davis

[Superman]

Peter King's column on SI says that cornerbacks are new QBs.....money wise

 

So what? It doesn't make sense to pay that kind of money for a cornerback, no matter what Peter King says.

 

And then there's the whole "Peter King is wrong" thing. Cornerbacks don't make quarterback money. No one other than Revis makes more than $10m/year. The next ten cornerbacks average $8.75m/year. The top ten quarterbacks make $18.75m/year. There's no comparison.

[Iron Colt]

While everyone panics, Grigs is like Jabba:

'Ho ho ho ho. This player is my kind of scum. Fearless and inventive. Tell him 8.75 mil a year and I strongly suggest he take it.'

[TKnight24]

Depends on what you mean by top Davis

The person I originally quoted said let Vontae go to New York and get destroyed by Tom Brady. I asked who would top Davis meaning what patriot WR would destroy Davis cause last I checked Tom doesn't catch his own passes.

And if Tom plays like he did in the playoff game vs Denver this season over throwing wide open receivers, he's not gonna destroy anything but his QB rating

[TKnight24]

Tom Brady

*Points to his response to Gavin*

[runthepost]

Jets with vontae

[Gavin]

So what? It doesn't make sense to pay that kind of money for a cornerback, no matter what Peter King says.

 

And then there's the whole "Peter King is wrong" thing. Cornerbacks don't make quarterback money. No one other than Revis makes more than $10m/year. The next ten cornerbacks average $8.75m/year. The top ten quarterbacks make $18.75m/year. There's no comparison.

I still have never really quite understood paying a pass rusher for example(pure pass rusher I mean, a pass rusher who is going to do you alot more damage to your hopes of stopping the run vs a pass rusher who can play both) 14 mill who may literally impact 50-60 passes a season(out of 400-500-600 passes) taking into account sacks and pressures over a great Corner, Granted Revis was making an insane amount of money at 96 mill but after that there are 5 DE's that make signifcantly more then the 2nd highest paid Corner   (using Dwight Freeneys money in the last year as a Colt)

[trueblueblood]

Destroyed by who? Name ONE patriots WR that'll top Revis......

I'll wait for your answer.......

*Sits comfortably in recliner*

I'm talking about Davis, and it's tom Brady, he's gonna get his regardless.

[Superman]

I still have never really quite understood paying a pass rusher for example(pure pass rusher I mean, a pass rusher who is going to do you alot more damage to your hopes of stopping the run vs a pass rusher who can play both) 14 mill who may literally impact 50-60 passes(out of 400-500-600 passes) taking into account sacks and pressures over a great Corner, Granted Revis was making an insane amount of money at 96 mill but after that there are 5 DE's that make signifcantly more then the 2nd highest paid Corner   (using Dwight Freeneys money in the last year as a Colt)

 

Really?

 

First of all, let's strike down the straw man. I don't see a lot of people advocating paying a pass rusher $14m/year.

 

But the reason pass rushers are regarded as more important is because pressure stresses every aspect of your offense. The best pass rusher has to be accounted for on every pass play. Teams chip and double great pass rushers all game long to keep them away from the quarterback. They take offensive weapons like tight ends and running backs out of the equation because they keep them in to protect the quarterback. Coordinators shorten up their passing concepts keep pass rushers from destroying them. All game long.

 

A great corner can take one receiver out of the play. A great pass rusher makes every receiver less dangerous. Every play. Forget hurries, pressures and sacks. Your pass rush stresses every element of the offense, every play, every game.

 

Doesn't mean cornerbacks aren't important, but they certainly aren't as important as a great pass rush is.

 

Also, a great pass rush isn't necessarily contingent on one particularly great pass rusher.

[1yrdandacloudofdust]

Revis going to get cut, so maybe he'll have no choice but to take less than what he's making

[ricker182]

Revis going to get cut, so maybe he'll have no choice but to take less than what he's making

He'll take less, but how much less? is the question.

[Gavin]

Really?

 

First of all, let's strike down the straw man. I don't see a lot of people advocating paying a pass rusher $14m/year.

 

But the reason pass rushers are regarded as more important is because pressure stresses every aspect of your offense. The best pass rusher has to be accounted for on every pass play. Teams chip and double great pass rushers all game long to keep them away from the quarterback. They take offensive weapons like tight ends and running backs out of the equation because they keep them in to protect the quarterback. Coordinators shorten up their passing concepts keep pass rushers from destroying them. All game long.

 

A great corner can take one receiver out of the play. A great pass rusher makes every receiver less dangerous. Every play. Forget hurries, pressures and sacks. Your pass rush stresses every element of the offense, every play, every game.

 

Doesn't mean cornerbacks aren't important, but they certainly aren't as important as a great pass rush is.

 

Also, a great pass rush isn't necessarily contingent on one particularly great pass rusher.

No Im not saying anyone is advocating that at all.....Not sure where you got that, But its been proven that pass rushers are very avoidable(screens, delayed hand offs, quick passing routes for example) where as Corners simply arent, if you have 2 good Corners you have to throw at one, I mean no question vs the Mark Sanchezes of the world they are very affective but vs the Peyton Mannings/Tom Bradys of the world they arent as consistently affective (Peyton only averages getting sacked 10.9 per season to this point in his career)

[Superman]

No Im not saying anyone is advocating that at all.....Not sure where you got that, But its been proven that pass rushers are very avoidable(screens, delayed hand offs, quick passing routes for example) where as Corners simply arent, if you have 2 good Corners you have to throw at one, I mean no question vs the Mark Sanchezes of the world they are very affective but vs the Peyton Mannings/Tom Bradys of the world they arent as consistently affective (Peyton only averages getting sacked 10.9 per season to this point in his career)

 

You brought up Peyton Manning. What were the biggest plays in our game vs. Denver? Weren't they the QB hits, resulting in turnovers? What about the Super Bowl? Wasn't it the constant pressure on Manning, which also resulted in turnovers?

 

You brought up Tom Brady. Go back to SB42, Patriots vs. Giants. Wasn't the overriding factor the great pass rush?

 

Pass rushers aren't avoidable. You call screens and delays throw quick passes to somewhat neutralize their ability to make big plays, but the reason you're adding those plays to your gameplan is because of the presence of those pass rushers. Delayed handoffs and screens are all gambits designed to slow pass rushers down and give your quarterback opportunities to take shots down the field. Shorter passing concepts are designed to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands before the pass rush can get there. That's all a byproduct of a good pass rush.

 

Without a good pass rush, even with two great corners, you can push the coverage down the field and then throw underneath to the vacated areas, using tight ends and backs. You have extra time to let things develop, so even average offensive weapons can get open underneath. 

 

Now if you combine a good pass rush with good corner play, now you're in business. Look at the Seahawks. But good corners are far less effective when they have to operate behind a substandard pass rush, whereas a great pass rush can make an average secondary look like worldbeaters.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

NFL is a dirty dirty business

— Darius Butler (@DariusJButler)

March 11, 2014

[BlueCollarColts]

I wonder what his contract numbers will be, will it break 10 million?

[BlueCollarColts]

NFL is a dirty dirty business

— Darius Butler (@DariusJButler)

March 11, 2014

Is this about us losing Davis?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

You brought up Peyton Manning. What were the biggest plays in our game vs. Denver? Weren't they the QB hits, resulting in turnovers? What about the Super Bowl? Wasn't it the constant pressure on Manning, which also resulted in turnovers?

 

You brought up Tom Brady. Go back to SB42, Patriots vs. Giants. Wasn't the overriding factor the great pass rush?

 

Pass rushers aren't avoidable. You call screens and delays throw quick passes to somewhat neutralize their ability to make big plays, but the reason you're adding those plays to your gameplan is because of the presence of those pass rushers. Delayed handoffs and screens are all gambits designed to slow pass rushers down and give your quarterback opportunities to take shots down the field. Shorter passing concepts are designed to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands before the pass rush can get there. That's all a byproduct of a good pass rush.

 

Without a good pass rush, even with two great corners, you can push the coverage down the field and then throw underneath to the vacated areas, using tight ends and backs. You have extra time to let things develop, so even average offensive weapons can get open underneath. 

 

Now if you combine a good pass rush with good corner play, now you're in business. Look at the Seahawks. But good corners are far less effective when they have to operate behind a substandard pass rush, whereas a great pass rush can make an average secondary look like worldbeaters.

Personally I thought the biggest "plays" were the tight coverage plays by Davis. the pass rush had 2-3 great moments but Davis's coverage was all day long-when he got injured

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Is this about us losing Davis?

 

I dunno. Could just be guys he knows getting dumped into Free Agency in general. Or it could be about Vontae. Who knows.

[Colts_Fan12]

If the jets get Vontae they will have a good looking D. Grab them some O linemen and weapons with the rest of the cap space and draft they could be a surprise

[BlueCollarColts]

If the jets get Vontae they will have a good looking D. Grab them some O linemen and weapons with the rest of the cap space and draft they could be a surprise

they lack weapons on offense, like you said, add some weapons and they have a good shot at the playoffs with that defense assuming Vontae signs there, however easier said than done

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think...

 

 

yeah...

 

 

And...

 

 

Revis...

 

Roy Cummings of the Tampa Tribune is reporting that you can take $12 million of Revis' base salary and convert it to a signing bonus spread over the remaining life of the contract, and that in doing so you'd create $9.6 million in cap space for 2014, pushing his cap number down to $6.4 million.

 

A. Is that true?

B. Does that have an adverse affect in later years or can those years be converted as well, with the bonus being some sort of off the cap books instrument?

 

If you can keep the actual salary that affects our cap that low, then this might be something. I don't care about the $12 million in signing bonus...that's on Irsay. And if he's willing to pay it, who am I to disagree!

[Pelt]

Now if you combine a good pass rush with good corner play, now you're in business. Look at the Seahawks. But good corners are far less effective when they have to operate behind a substandard pass rush, whereas a great pass rush can make an average secondary look like worldbeaters.

Agree 100%. And that may be why I'm not as upset as some folks are here about possibly losing Davis. Sure, I want him here, but not if the price is too steep.

 

I think this free agency year is a great opportunity for us to address the trenches on both sides of the ball. If we can get a player or two to increase our pass rushing/penetration, we can force teams into making mistakes and, like you said, make an average secondary look good. And if we can get a solid center and perhaps even a solid RG, we can start to have an offense that will control the ball on numerous sustained drives, instead of all of the 3-and-outs we had this past season. That would do wonders for our defense as well.

[Superman]

Personally I thought the biggest "plays" were the tight coverage plays by Davis. the pass rush had 2-3 great moments but Davis's coverage was all day long-when he got injured

 

Yeah, I don't agree at all. We forced Manning into two big turnovers, and both were a result of pressure, not coverage. The initial coverage was good, but the pressure created the turnovers. And for the entire game, the pressure made Manning uncomfortable.

 

I'm not taking anything away from Davis, because he was exceptional in that game, but all Manning did was throw to Decker, throw to Decker, throw to Welker, throw to Decker, throw to Julius Thomas, back to Decker again... We mostly held their #1 receiver in check, and Manning still threw for 3 TDs and nearly 400 yards. Imagine if we hadn't been able to get pressure...

[BlueCollarColts]

Agree 100%. And that may be why I'm not as upset as some folks are here about possibly losing Davis. Sure, I want him here, but not if the price is too steep.

 

I think this free agency year is a great opportunity for us to address the trenches on both sides of the ball. If we can get a player or two to increase our pass rushing/penetration, we can force teams into making mistakes and, like you said, make an average secondary look good. And if we can get a solid center and perhaps even a solid RG, we can start to have an offense that will control the ball on numerous sustained drives, instead of all of the 3-and-outs we had this past season. That would do wonders for our defense as well.

I think we are set at guard to be honest, Thornton was a rookie, but got better as the year progressed, and was playing pretty well at the end of the season and the playoffs, and Donald Thomas is back after missing nearly all of last season, definitely need a new center unless the coaches think Holmes can play, which I doubt

[Superman]

Roy Cummings of the Tampa Tribune is reporting that you can take $12 million of Revis' base salary and convert it to a signing bonus spread over the remaining life of the contract, and that in doing so you'd create $9.6 million in cap space for 2014, pushing his cap number down to $6.4 million.

 

A. Is that true?

B. Does that have an adverse affect in later years or can those years be converted as well, with the bonus being some sort of off the cap books instrument?

 

If you can keep the actual salary that affects our cap that low, then this might be something. I don't care about the $12 million in signing bonus...that's on Irsay. And if he's willing to pay it, who am I to disagree!

 

Yes, that's true. 

 

Yes, that has an adverse effect on the cap in later years. If the money is converted to signing bonus, it gets spread evenly over the remaining years on the contract.

 

The other workaround is to guarantee future salaries, rather than giving upfront signing bonus. The pay schedule isn't really important; as you say, that's Irsay's problem. But the money will hit the cap, now or later.

[Pelt]

I think we are set at guard to be honest, Thornton was a rookie, but got better as the year progressed, and was playing pretty well at the end of the season and the playoffs, and Donald Thomas is back after missing nearly all of last season, definitely need a new center unless the coaches think Holmes can play, which I doubt

Agreed, which is why I hung that "perhaps" out there. I'm not quite as committed to that notion as I am about center.

 

And isn't RG Thornton's natural position anyway? That may help to see a marked improvement in him as well.

[BlueCollarColts]

Agreed, which is why I hung that "perhaps" out there. I'm not quite as committed to that notion as I am about center.

 

And isn't RG Thornton's natural position anyway? That may help to see a marked improvement in him as well.

I believe so yes, so that works out perfectly with Thomas at LG

[NewColtsFan]

So what? It doesn't make sense to pay that kind of money for a cornerback, no matter what Peter King says.

 

And then there's the whole "Peter King is wrong" thing. Cornerbacks don't make quarterback money. No one other than Revis makes more than $10m/year. The next ten cornerbacks average $8.75m/year. The top ten quarterbacks make $18.75m/year. There's no comparison.

 

I'm pretty confident that Peter King is well aware of those numbers...

 

I strongly suspect there's much, much more to this issue that what the poster is suggesting.....

 

King is a very, very sharp guy.

[Superman]

I'm pretty confident that Peter King is well aware of those numbers...

I strongly suspect there's much, much more to this issue that what the poster is suggesting.....

King is a very, very sharp guy.

I've disagreed with King's take on things before, but I highly doubt he would suggest that corners are or should be paid like quarterbacks.

Either way, there's no reason for any corner to be paid what Revis got.

[NewColtsFan]

I've disagreed with King's take on things before, but I highly doubt he would suggest that corners are or should be paid like quarterbacks.

Either way, there's no reason for any corner to be paid what Revis got.

 

Agreed that King would not make that argument....

 

And agreed that corners are not now, nor are they likely ever to be paid like QB's, which is what Revis got last year.

 

Something in the $11-12Mill range is more likely...

[The Sack Pack]

I read that the Jets have switch their focus now to Darelle Revis... what if Davis' market evaporates and he comes back. That would be rather amusing, but I'm sure the organization wouldn't hold it against him too much.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Since we didn't win a Super Bowl. We wasted a 2nd round pick. If we didn't make that trade we could have drafted Eddie Lacy, therefore we would still have our 1st this year.

Eh, he panned out about as well as a lot of 2nd round picks. He had a couple good seasons. That's assuming of course he's in fact leaving and signing with someone else. And I'm not sure Eddie Lacey would've been the stud he was in Green Bay running behind our o-line.

[SteelCityColt]

You brought up Peyton Manning. What were the biggest plays in our game vs. Denver? Weren't they the QB hits, resulting in turnovers? What about the Super Bowl? Wasn't it the constant pressure on Manning, which also resulted in turnovers?

 

You brought up Tom Brady. Go back to SB42, Patriots vs. Giants. Wasn't the overriding factor the great pass rush?

 

Pass rushers aren't avoidable. You call screens and delays throw quick passes to somewhat neutralize their ability to make big plays, but the reason you're adding those plays to your gameplan is because of the presence of those pass rushers. Delayed handoffs and screens are all gambits designed to slow pass rushers down and give your quarterback opportunities to take shots down the field. Shorter passing concepts are designed to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands before the pass rush can get there. That's all a byproduct of a good pass rush.

 

Without a good pass rush, even with two great corners, you can push the coverage down the field and then throw underneath to the vacated areas, using tight ends and backs. You have extra time to let things develop, so even average offensive weapons can get open underneath. 

 

Now if you combine a good pass rush with good corner play, now you're in business. Look at the Seahawks. But good corners are far less effective when they have to operate behind a substandard pass rush, whereas a great pass rush can make an average secondary look like worldbeaters.

 

Quoted solely so I could say awesome response (and that's not a dig at you Gavin!). 

 

There's been some truly outstanding displays of insanity in some of the posts in this thread, I applaud your efforts Superman, I'd have lost my temper a long time ago if I'd engaged with them. 

 

Either way, it's Tuesday, bring on the hell fire!

[Indygal1218]

While everyone panics, Grigs is like Jabba:

'Ho ho ho ho. This player is my kind of scum. Fearless and inventive. Tell him 8.75 mil a year and I strongly suggest he take it.'

Is he bantha poodoo if he doesn't?

[corgi]

Is he bantha poodoo if he doesn't?

Nope, it's straight to the Sarlacc pit for him.

[NFLfan]

I read that the Jets have switch their focus now to Darelle Revis... what if Davis' market evaporates and he comes back. That would be rather amusing, but I'm sure the organization wouldn't hold it against him too much.

Revis was one of the most popular Jets players that I could remember. Jets fans were devastated when he was traded. With the #1 pick from the Bucs, the Jets drafted the rookie defensive player of the year; so that lessened the pain but their pass coverage was poor.

I'm not a Jets fan but I hope Revis returns. He is the best cover corner, he has no off-the-field issues, and Jets fans would welcome the move. I don't believe he will command $16M per year now.

Rex Ryan will probably push hard to get Revis back. So, Davis may not be signed and delivered to the Jets just yet...but of course, you never know. Hopefully Davis re-signs with the Colts.

[Dark Superman]

Yes, but then they have about nothing to re-sign Whitner and a few others. Not to mention their draft picks and Kap wanting a huge deal in the near future. Signing Davis and letting Whitner and a few others walk does nothing but make them worse. San Fran is too smart IMO to do that. We'll see, but I don't think it's San Fran.

They are letting Whitner walk.

They have a few huge names coming up as well..

Crabtree, Kap.

But the cap is also rising each year so who knows?

[lollygagger8]

Ah geez. 

 

Look, sign the man, and then put a visor on Vontae's helmet that projects an image of Brady over every QB we play, and then he'll shut down his man every time. Win win!